Remington 770 Real World Review and Mild Modifications


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Wylie1
March 13, 2011, 10:28 PM
As I mentioned in a previous thread I started I have been so graciously gifted a Remington 770 chambered in .308. With all of the hear say and speculated reviews on the 770 going around the Internet I thought it was high time for a real world review so here it is.

This is the real deal, I have no affiliation with any fire arm manufactures nor do I have any preference toward any manufactures. Guaranteed accuracy by some manufacturers have gained my interests although I have not fired these products or have I spent any real time with any of them as new right out of the box products. My experience with firearms is truthfully minimal considering the experience I have seen and heard coming from others. To off set my last statement I have admired and fired many rifles over my lifetime although never entering any competitions friends have proclaimed me as a dead eye shot. What I do know is an inaccurate firearm frustrates me to the point of not wanting to bother with them much at all. I have a little gun smithing experience but this was far from any form of formal training but my outcomes with my smithing experiences have been positive.

First impression of the 770 left me wondering why anybody would plastic mold sling studs into the stock of a rifle. Granted they give them a little smoother looking line but I am afraid of the durability of these studs and I have read of failures on the Internet. These have just made the list of modifications to be made. My personal opinion of the stock doesn't follow the majorities opinion as I have gathered from the Internet, I almost like it and believe it may grow on me just as my first Tacoma did. I guess I am just growing complacent with synthetic stocks as they are becoming an industry standard for even some higher end rifles. After disassembling the 770 I have found that this stock feels rock solid as I try to twist it and bend it. One disadvantage I have found to cause some inaccuracy in this particluar 770 is the bedding of the barrel in the stock, I get further into this later. I'd prefer a nice laminated wood grained stock but then this is a budget rifle so it isn't economically feasible.

Fit and finish on first examination look pretty good barring the mold seam the length of the stock, an attribute I have seen with most synthetic stocks, I don't consider this a real big deal. On further examination I noticed I could loosen the screws holding the base of the scope rings to the base plate for the scope rings with my fingers! Then a look at each side of the scope rings showed a much larger gap on one side than the other, these were loose too! Now the scope ring's base plate is a single piece and may just bring some extra rigidity to the receiver and the four screws holding it in place do have thread locker on them and are appropriately tightened down nice and snug. As for the scope itself, not the greatest of quality although real clear viewing through the lenses throughout the scopes adjustments. So I snugged everything down on the scope that was loose and called it good enough for the time being.


By way of the Internet I came across some information I have taken to heart so there are some very slight modifications and preparations listed below that have been applied to this 770 before it ever made it to the range for break in and sighting in.
1.The bolt was sanded with 600 grit wet sanding paper and brought to a near mirror finish to smooth the bolts action in the receiver. This worked but not well enough to write home about.
2.The rifle and all components of the rifle were cleaned throughly upon receipt of the rifle with Blue Wonder products as to Blue Wonder's directions. I did not use a brass brush as the directions stated to be used, I used cotton swabs and cotton cloth patches. Pictures to follow, this gun was dirty!
3.After the cleaning a bore mop was rubbed down with a very fine buffing compound and run through the bore of the rifle 20 times to remove micro burrs, after this a very extensive cleaning of the bore took place to remove and buffing compound that could have been left behind.
4.All components of the rifle were lubricated as should be with the addition of Kroil applied to the bore of the rifle then dry patched before the first round was fired. This was done in an effort to avoid copper fouling early on.
5.Scope base, scope rings and scope were removed from the rifle and all mountings had thread locker applied to the threads, then they were reinstalled. This will bar any review of bore sighting done by Remington but will insure extra security in the scope's mountings.

A new gun, this dirty!?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3110092.jpg

At the range Winchester model number Q3130 7.62 x 51, 147gr. FMJs were the only cartridges used. Being a Nato cartridge these are shorter then most production rounds and will not seat the bullet into the lands of the bore as well as longer cartridges as well the 147 grain bullet isn't favored for a 1 in 10 inch bore twist from what I have read. (<Bore twist edited, thanks NCsmitty!) A heavier bullet somewhere in the 165 grain area would be preferred for greater accuracy from what I have read but the 147s were also a gift and other then the possibility of effecting the a very short length of the lands I went ahead with the 147s.

Every cartridge loaded into the rifle and fired was followed by a wet patch or two then followed by at least one dry patch for cleaning of the bore for the first 15 rounds. Then this same cleaning process was done after every two cartridges for the next 15 rounds which means I was shooting a wet bore the first day with every round that went through the rifle, this is known to cause greater inaccuracy.

As the day progressed the accuracy of the rifle sharpened although a poor group of about four inches was the final and best group of the day.

This is far from anything I would have expected from a new rifle and lead to me looking further into this rifle. The next day I pulled the rifle apart and began to scrutinize it's construction. In pulling the rifle apart I noticed the screws forward of the magazine only felt to have a few threads holding them in place and I made a mental note to drill out the wells these screws sit in to allow more threads to grab for some extra strength. I had read about someone stripping these screws out on the Internet and I could see why now!

The barrel is sandwiched in fairly tight by the stock and as the days shooting I had done progressed the point of impact was going to the right a little, might be something I can do here I thought.

The tang of these rifles are made of plastic! Although looking closer and thinking about it these rifles may not depend on the strength of the tang as much as older rifles do. There is a block bedded into the stock and a channel cut into the under side of the barrel that this block fits into that takes the applied force of the percussion. In seeing this I realized this is a very important link in this rifles accuracy so I grabbed the calipers to see just how well this block fit into the channel. After measuring the block's height from the base of where the barrel fits in the stock and the depth of the channel I found a difference of 0.04”!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3120095.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3120094.jpg

I thought here's a start in gaining some accuracy so off I went searching through my junk for a little piece of steel to fabricate a slightly taller block from. I found a piece just slightly thicker and just to make sure it fit in the barrels channel tight I sized it up, nice and snug, perfect! :) Next I checked it to the pocket in the stock the block seats in, really really tight but nothing a mallet and a block of wood couldn't persuade after a little careful carving with an exacto knife. The pocket in the stock is actually narrower then the channel on the under side of the barrel!


In what little experience gun smithing I have I learned how the Fins accurized the Russian's Mosins by shimming so I kept this in mind while building my new block and added the height of some washers I grabbed to the height of the new block.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130108-1.jpg

So I finished up the block and figured the one I pulled out was blued, might as well, out came the Oxpho and the torch, just about red hot, dunk, sizzle, wipe down, tada! :)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130105.jpg

A block of wood and dead blow hammer had the new block in place slick as you please.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130107.jpg
A drill bit chucked up added some depth to the wells for the screws. Be extremely careful in doing this if you are doing the same as I have done. I had to grind and reblued the end of the screw directly next to the magazine as it contacted the bolt when I first put the bolt back into the rifle. This shows a weak point in the 770s I just became ware of.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130110.jpg

Some careful work with a utility knife got the better part of the barrels channel in the stock cleared to float the barrel. In doing many fittings I found why the days shooting showed the point of impact leading to the right, the stock was pressuring the barrel on the left side more then the right.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130109.jpg


Then a dowel and some 320 grit took care of the rest of the removal of plastic for the floating of the barrel.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130111.jpg


There is one high spot I found under the barrel, a little more aggressive sanding took care of that.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130112.jpg

Reassembling the rifle was a little tricky being I didn't glue the washers in place but will if the work I have done shows improvement of accuracy. I'll also be filling the void behind the block with Devcon Liquid Steel which might allow less movement of the block and increase accuracy. The barrel floating went well.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3130116.jpg

Although it doesn't affect the accuracy of the rifle I read a post on the Internet mentioning the rattle coming from the Magazines in the 770s. Originally I just wrapped some scotch tape around it but that looked like crap. Being I was working on the rifle today I found an oring that did the trick and in a much better fashion. :) Something I forgot to note when I made this post is that if pushed upward the magazine can contact the bolt, the o-ring application cured this little issue.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3120101.jpg

I was going to wait until I could make a few more trips to the range and see how the barrel settled in but decided to post up the work I've done so far for some feed back and opinions as to how I might go about accurizing this rifle further. Sling studs and Devcon are on the way.

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NCsmitty
March 13, 2011, 10:53 PM
Thank you for the comprehensive look at the Rem. 770 so far. A minor correction is the twist is 1in10" according to Rem. online catalog. Your choice of ammo is probably not the best choice for accuracy, but is a benchmark for your accuracy mods at this point.

We await your next chapter.



NCsmitty

Wylie1
March 13, 2011, 11:03 PM
Thanks smitty! On my way to edit it right now.

Ohio Gun Guy
March 13, 2011, 11:07 PM
Good write up....I'm hooked, get to the range. :)

Wylie1
March 13, 2011, 11:57 PM
Thanks,
I've got rain forecasted for the next two days here and the last trip to the range was pretty soupy! We'll see how it goes.

EDIT:
Thinking about the rain brought another subject to mind that I forgot to mention originally. The bluing on this rifle is par with much more expensive rifles if you ask me.

I can't wait to get back out and see how this thing does now, I have a feeling I will see vast improvements come out of the work I have done.

juk
March 14, 2011, 02:23 AM
If it helps any, my Ruger shot like crap with surplus 7.62x51. It shot consistent 3" groups. Just about every commercial 308 ammo I have tried brought the groups to under 2". The best being Black Hills Match, Hornady, and Georgia Arms Match. Handloads turned the gun into a solid MOA rifle. I am willing to bet that you will see 2MOA, if not better, with handloads. It looks like you are off to a good start with the 770. Be sure to keep the updates coming.

Wylie1
March 14, 2011, 02:30 AM
Thanks juk,
I do plan to get some good commercial rounds and once I have used up these Winchesters I'll get into some .308 dies for my press and make good use of the brass from them.
I've heard good reviews on the Black Hills and will likely try them after I have this rifle through it's break in.

Pokyman
March 14, 2011, 12:48 PM
It appears the things I have been hearing about this model Remington are true.
For those who lack the skills to do the improvements listed and need to utilize the skills of a good gunsmith this rifle would soon become a very expensive inexpensive rifle.

juk
March 14, 2011, 03:05 PM
When you get the chance, try different bullet weights too. My gun will shoot 150grain pills well enough, but prefers the 165-168 bullets.

k_randomfactor
March 14, 2011, 03:34 PM
My biggest gripe with the Rem770 is still the plastic stock. I saw several, not a ton but enough to make me question it, come back with the molded in plastic trigger guard busted right off. None had a large gouge or ding where it looked like it had been abused. One was busted off from the factory.

Had a couple (two that I recall) come back with the bolt handle busted off as well. It was not a solder issue, the bolt handle broke right smack dab in the middle.

Overall though, I think it could be a viable, inexpensive, starter rifle. Not much customization potential, but if that doesn't concern you, it could be worth a look.

Wylie, great write up so far.

Wylie1
March 14, 2011, 10:09 PM
Pokyman,
What work I have done to this rifle I did with minimal tools that I would think most would have or could improvise. For your less mechanically inclined or your straight out of the box got to have MOA types no I wouldn't suggest this rifle. Myself I'm a perpetual tinkerer, most every one of my toys has been modified in one way or another. You should see the fishing rods I build!

juk,
I'm just about to that point now as the accuracy of this rifle is coming into it's own. Later in this post I'll deliberate.

k_randomfactor,
Other then the trigger guard I can't agree with you on the stock on the 770, I find it to be stable and easy to work with barring some modifications. Modification wise, I do see limitations as well, pillar bedding could be a real trick for some without tools such as a lathe or mill or both. Issues with bedding of the tang, I would relate more toward the plastic tang then the stock itself, but it wouldn't be all that big an issue I'd figure anyway. Personally I wouldn't bed the barrel other then maybe two inches from the receiver and I don't see much problem with doing this. Blustering and replacement of the block is basic first timer stuff imho.

I'd almost think the bolt issues might have come from the bluing on the bolt and lack of proper cleaning although I'm just drawing at straws without seeing the broken parts myself. I would also think a pretty firm hand would have be used on just about any bolt to break it and then to have to do that wouldn't be the direction I would take.

Overall though, I think it could be a viable, inexpensive, starter rifle. Not much customization potential, but if that doesn't concern you, it could be worth a look.

Wylie, great write up so far.

I agree with you on this rifle and thank you sir!

Okay, it was really windy today but I slopped through the mud at the range a few times anyway. Oh, before I get into this any further I should mention this morning I pulled my Barska 6.5-20 x 50 AO off the Mosin and put it on the Remington. Reason being I just like getting up real close and personal like with what I'm shooting at. I wasn't real fond of the Bushnell that came with the Remington but I have to say for a budget rifle combo scope it will do the job for most as long as precautions are taken such as I mentioned on my first post in this thread.

Being the new to the rifle scope was mounted I went through the first 10 rounds sighting in at 25 yds., the 1/8 inch clicks threw me off a little at first so it did take 10 rounds before I felt like I should go for a longer poke. I cleaned between each round too, why I'm not sure but that's what I did.

Something I have learned is a lot of your larger caliber rounds really don't even set into their trajectory within 25 yards so this is a good way to check older rifles to see if the bore is burnt. The reason I mentioned this is I made a few four click adjustments at 25yds on the scope and ripped open existing holes in the target further. This tells me enough to know the wind effected my shotting today greatly after going to 100 yards and needless to say this barrel isn't burnt.

Being zeroed at 25 I figured I should be fairly close at 200 although I just stepped over the 100 yard target area expecting to hit the target high by at least a few inches. At the 100 yard area I shot the first 10 rounds cleaning with Blue Wonder cleaner after every shot and then noticed I was getting really low on cleaning supplies. The next five rounds were shot and then I cleaned again.

I put the next target up and went through 15 rounds just to see how a drier bore would do. I'll caption each picture below as to not be so confusing. Oh yeah all the cartridges used today were the same Winchester Q3130s

These two targets are the last two from Saturday. The one on the left was first and the one on the right was the last of the day. See what I mean about the POI leading to the right.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3140117.jpg
The two targets below are from today with a 15 to 20 mile an hour wind coming from the left and I was squaring up with the cross hairs on the target to check consistency even though the wind was not favorable. The target on the right is just about all wet bore shooting other then the last five rounds shot at this target.
The target on the left had one miss high center and the rest were dry bore shooting.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3140118.jpg

The tightest of the grouping above was when the bore had been dried by shooting so I took a poke out at a 200 yards waiting for the wind to calm before I pulled the trigger. If it was a Deer or an Elk it likely would have dropped in its tracks as I hit the target 4 inches high and a half inch to the right. Seems odd being where I was hitting at 100 yards but that's where it hit the target. Does this sound right to you guys? Anyway I am now very confident this dog will hunt! With quality rounds and a little more tuning of the rifle I think I have an all day MOA rifle but this does have yet to be seen.

Stay tuned. :)

JTW Jr.
March 14, 2011, 10:15 PM
Nice write up , plus I just had to post in a thread of someone who spells their name the same as mine.

John Wylie

firearmnut
March 15, 2011, 01:09 AM
Nice read thanks for posting this.

Wylie1
March 15, 2011, 01:19 AM
Thanks guys,
Wylie is my first name. :)

k_randomfactor
March 15, 2011, 01:38 AM
The trigger guard was my only gripe with the plastic stock, and it was due to the fact that if it gets busted, new stock time.

Bolt handle issue had me scratching my head as well. The break looked like a poor heat treat break, but if so they REALLY screwed the pooch on it. If just running the bolt caused it to break, just wow. However, it was only two that I remember, and that was only 1-2% roughly of the ones we sold. Remington happily took them back for a fix. No muss, no fuss, and I didn't have to re-solder a new bolt handle on. Win.

I will second trying a better brand of ammo. Mil-Surp stuff is not known for tack driving accuracy, but it seems to be doing as good as can be with it.

Wylie1
March 15, 2011, 02:15 AM
I'm glad you pointed out the trigger because it is a fact I missed. Looking at it and thinking, I'm left with the thought the usual Joe isn't going to figure a fix for this if it breaks and in seeing what I have on the market, it's almost perplexing for myself. I guess it would all depend on the way it would break too.
I didn't have to re-solder a new bolt handle on. Win.
That's a good thing.
By the time I get to where I want to be with this rifle I'm about 99.9% sure all warranted parts will be null and void, S.O.L!
Sometimes I just have to make the best of things and if I can be the underdog who pulls off the bonus hat trick it just makes my day.

These rounds were part of the gift for break in rounds. I've been searching for reload info but haven't come up with much of anything. I just figure I'll get into some match grade, check out the make by way of a bullet puller and scale and see how they do for a basis to reload from. I do still have to get into .308 dies but they aren't priced like the 7.62 x 54s at least.

Pokyman
March 15, 2011, 01:05 PM
My post stating that with the work you have done could turn this rifle into an expensive inexpensive rifle was not intended as a criticism of anyone. There are those people that are very competent in their field of knowledge. Unfortunately they have no mechanical skills and must depend on others such as gunsmiths to help them with their problem. If this is the case then the Rem. 770 most likely is not the most cost effective way to go.

Wylie1
March 15, 2011, 07:22 PM
Today the verdict came in. At the 175th round through the rifle, cleaning after every 10 rounds the magazine went to pieces, literally fell apart in my hand. It's a two tabbed deal that holds on the plastic base plate with two very short pieces of metal, no real surface area for any real type of strength.

I watched the accuracy come to a very short lived sweet spot grouping just a little better then previously seen and then it went down hill really fast. I've never experienced anything like it. I'm so disgusted I didn't even bother to grab the targets I shot today for this review.

It looks like the 200 yard shot I made yesterday was the only luck I'll ever have with this rifle as I am done with it.

The 770 won't hunt in my opinion after all and will only cost you cleaning supplies, break in ammo, gas to the range and if you manage to hit an animal with one could cost you a long hike on a blood trail.

I did take to heart the mention of quality ammo and $60.00 was invested in 2 boxes of 168 grain Hornady Match Grade A-Max. A cleaning was done previous to firing the Hornady's and one of the Winchester Q3130s was fired to clear the barrel. The Hornady's grouped just as poorly as the q3130s did.

In my opinion Remington should recall the 770 as it is only going to worsen a diminishing reputation that at this point sounds as though it actually has Remington's future in question.

I'll never so much as touch another one of these things as long as I live if I have my way.

The End!

Wylie1
March 16, 2011, 09:58 AM
I called a good friend last night who has a lot more experience with fire arms then myself and did help punch some of the holes in the targets that have been posted in this thread. He told me he thought it might be the Barska scope being the issues I have had with it in the past.

I almost tried to argue being the Barska had held zero on the range when mounted on the Mosin with a heavier recoil but felt my argument was moot so off came the Barska and the Bushnell went back on with thread locker applied to the threads again.

As well he had me pull out my calipers and check out both the Q3130s and the A-MAX cartridges. What I found odd, other then the obvious differences in the brass and bullet was that they measured up extremely similar. In my studies I have gathered that the Winchester brass is fairly thin compared to at least most other Nato make ups. One thing I did notice being I spent most of my time at the range by myself yesterday is I can hear a difference from one round to the next shooting the Q3130s. I'd fire off a round and notice a notable difference, then I'd get the scope back on target to see that round would be a flier.


I'm not sure what possessed me to check the screws holding the receiver and barrel to the stock other then having my wrenches out for the scope but I did and they seemed to have lost the torque I applied when assembling the rifle. Out came the thread locker and the screws got a healthy thread locker soaking and back in they went. So pulling the Barska may not have been needed and now the scope rings have what looks to be one last scope exchange in them. The scope rings have been mentioned as to being weak in my reading on the Internet and I have to agree. I'm not sure how to test this Barska to see if it is stable but I'm not going to like loosing the magnification, especially if this rifle ever becomes capable of longer range shooting then 100 or 200yards.


Being the magazine was in pieces and sending it back to Remington would have likely only returned another of the same I thought about it and headed for the epoxies that I have a fair selection of. I decided on a thread coating epoxy which is very liquid or water like that has just recently given me some battles on fishing rods. I'm not fond of it for building fishing rods so I figured what the heck. I mixed some up and poured it in the space between the metal and plastic floor plate's inner edge. We'll see how this does although if heated I'm likely to find JB WELD or maybe some Devcon Plastic Steel would have been the better choice. The reason I grabbed what epoxy I did was for easy of application.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3150119.jpg

Although I am against it at this point and feel my time could be much better spent on other things I'll apply some patience and go ahead with an effort to accurize a rifle that may not be worth the time in trying to do so.

Wylie1
March 17, 2011, 01:01 AM
I've heard to error is human and I've gone beyond the point of proving myself human this time.
Today I went and got some Barnes CR 10 and followed the direction and got a little stuff out of a bore I thought was clean. This will be my go to bore cleaner from this day forth!

Although it was raining and far from favorable conditions today I crossed my fingers and headed out to the range again determined to diagnose just what was going on with the poor grouping I had seen the last time at the range . I racked five of the q3130s through the Remington 770 seeing a pretty good improvement over what was looking to be the sweet spot I mentioned in my post previous to the last. (these five are low and left with the first furthest to the left) After checking consistency with those rounds I made the adjustment to the scope and fired five more Q3130s at a target I didn't take a picture of. After that there were a few more scope adjustments I had to make and the rifle came to a pretty close average on the bull although not hitting the bull. Being the groups had closed and I had a chance to tell the difference on the target pictured below I gave the rifle a chance to cool down as I pasted those round through the rifle fairly quickly.

I got my friend on the phone I had talk to last night and let him know that between the scope and the loose screws holding the receiver and barrel on the gun the groups were looking okay again. We chatted for a while and I walked back to a cold bore.

I hand loaded one of the Hornady A-MAXs in and made sure the rifle was rested well and let her rip. I seen where it hit and my hopes really sprang up although I didn't want to get too excited so I gave it a short break and let the barrel cool just a little. Then hand fed another and ripped out the hole made by the first A-MAX a hair to the left and downward. I was jazzed at this point and let out a WHOOP and didn't wait too long for the next which went a little high and left of the bull. I wasn't completely sure of what I was seeing from a 100yards out so I walk up to the target to confirm and just got all kinds of warm and fuzzy inside. :) I had to shoot one more so I fed another A-MAX and got completely stoked with the results of the strike to just the lower left of the bull.

This was from 100 yards.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3160120.jpg

To think I almost tossed this rifle in the trash can at the range my last trip there had me shaking my head.

I just picked up a set of Weaver rings and my Nikon 3-9 x 40 is going to be mounted on this rifle. When the sling studs show up I'll do some finalizing to the work I have done and unBubbaize it. I now have some epoxy to back up the block inside and plan to bed the barrel just a little over two inches out from the receiver. I was thinking about building a block of some good hard aluminum that would span the two screws and seat the barrel real well but with my tooling this will be a real chore. It all depends on how the finalizing goes as to whether I'll go ahead with this block of aluminum.

What I though was going to be an all day MOA rifle may just go 1/4 MOA with a little patience between rounds, hand loads, and a lead sled.

These barrels are pretty temperature sensitive is a big lesson I learned today.

Inside two weeks I'll be reloading for this rifle with 168 grain Sierra MatchKings, IMR 4895 and the last of the Federal primers I have,I have to get up to Boise to get some more. I'll have 40 pieces of brass from the Hornady A-MAXs and 184 pieces of the q3130's brass.

Although pretty early on for a real world conclusion I'm sold on the thought of the Remington 770 as the misfit red haired step brother to the 700 that could very well be the better on a good day but maybe not over the long term, only time will tell.

HOOfan_1
March 17, 2011, 02:20 PM
Are you going to be shooting A-Max and MatchKings in it for hunting?

Wylie1
March 17, 2011, 04:25 PM
I may be using both, why?

I mentioned improvising and I've had a chance to do just that today. I'm kinda laughing at myself but this wasn't intended as any kind of comedic Improv.

My sling studs showed up today and I went right to work on them. Inside the butt section of the 770 scares me and I'm glad I decided on installing metal sling studs as it looks like a break here could be ugly. After drilling and installing the sling stud I applied some epoxy puddy to add some strength and will likely later fill the butt section full of expanding foam to help with strength.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3160122.jpg
The existing forward sling stud looks stronger then the butt's on the inside at least but the outside I don't trust. I'm torn on adding a bi-pod so I left this option open and started drilling for a sling stud a little ways away from the existing factory molded sling stud. First I center punched being that molded seam in the stock would make it hard hit center. Next I piloted a small bit in to depth. Then I went in with a slightly larger diameter then the lagged area on the 7/8" sling studs I ordered. The reason for this is to allowed my bedding epoxy for the threaded area to grab as much surface area as possible. I cleared material area by moving the drill left and right of the stock opening up each side of the interior again to get the best surface area on the sling stud's threads for adhesion. A little scrapping took care of the plastic klingons from the drilling.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3160128.jpg
And then we have my improv! LOL!
I split a tongue depressor in half and did some sanding on it so it would fit into the pockets tightly. To avoid leaking of the epoxy I used grease as a release agent and sealer. I didn't want to fill the whole area with epoxy is the reason for the damming I did. I sure got a laugh out of this!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3160129.jpg
I'm sure gunsmiths use this exact same rig right? LOL!
Edit:
I forgot to mention I used a Teflon spray release agent on the sling stud before it was epoxied in place so I'll have a threaded hole to screw in another if this one breaks. As well I heated another sling stud with a torch holding it with a pair of vise grip and made a little depression for the sling stud to recess in maybe a 1/16th (if that deep) of an inch to add some strength and a stable platform.

SwampWolf
March 17, 2011, 07:34 PM
Wylie is my first name.

I take it Coyote is your last name? I bet I'm not the first to make this lame stab at humor...:o

The End!

NO! Say it isn't so! Your posts are like reading a good novel but, not only is your "book" entertaining, it's very informative. Keep up the good work! :)

Wylie1
March 17, 2011, 11:26 PM
I bet I'm not the first to make this lame stab at humor...No, you are the first. :rolleyes: LOL!

At least I know somebody is reading this stuff I'm rambling on with. Thanks!
You asked for it!:D

I've been thinking this over and being the accuracy I have gained so far with better rounds and the work I have done, I'm not bedding anything yet. It's just too early on as I haven't even gone into reloading for this rifle yet.

I did notice that the barrel's float will change clearance depending on how much torque is applied to each of the screws, checking my work by sliding a piece of paper along the barrel between the barrel and stock where it has been floated and feeling for resistance. There is no indication of the block and slot in the barrel rocking on each other so this isn't caused by the block I made.

I'm hoping that this doesn't mean that I have made a torque sensitive rifle, that really bugged me with the Mosin and the strange tang adjustments that would have to be made to gain accuracy with it.

I could very well be milling on a couple pieces of aluminum here pretty soon if I find this rifle is torque sensitive.

Stay tuned as we ARE going for 1/4 MOA. I may not be able to do this off of bags and a bench but then who knows what I may be able to get worked up.

Wylie1
March 18, 2011, 06:21 PM
Being the wind isn't exactly friendly today for the range I floated the barrel in my CVA Buckhorn muzzle loader, finished the epoxying of the channel for the rod to stabilize the stock and mounted up the NECG peep sight. Turned out pretty sweet!:cool:

I had the 770 all bolted down and ready for the range with the Nikon mounted and bore sighted. Then I walked past an old set of bar clamps that came off my motorcycle when I mounted the steering dampener, it came with riser clamps. It hit me in the head like a brick, I debated looking at them whether I thought they would do what I wanted and didn't really want to waste the lock tite as I'm getting short on the stuff. It was killing me and I had to see if they might work for what I was thinking.

So out of the case came the Remington and a few seconds later the barrel was away from the stock. I real quick inspection tells me these are going to make some fine aluminum bedding blocks and save me a bunch of work!

So if this rifle turns out to be a torque sensitive type and doesn't want to do 1/4 MOA I have a lot less work in that direction with these. :cool:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3180131.jpg

Wylie1
March 19, 2011, 07:41 AM
Foam, check! :)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3180133.jpg

788Ham
March 19, 2011, 01:45 PM
Wylie,

HA! What a thread my man, I can hear the gears just'a grindin' reading this story. You'll definitely know how to get the action out of the stock when you're thru, bet Remington never thought about motorcycle clamps would work in their rifles! LOL Keep us apprised on your smithing adventure, hope it shoots better than you even thought!

I can see where the wind has caused you some troubles, I had the same problem with mine a day ago. Finally got my .223 to shoot 3 shots into a .590 group tho @ 100 yds, I'd installed a new trigger and was getting used to it before I finally hit pay dirt! Good luck!

Wylie1
March 19, 2011, 07:17 PM
Thanks Ham,
The thread locker was built up so bad today the screws needed a little friendly persuasion in coming out of the stock! I think I could assemble this rifle in my sleep at this point and I definitely ground some more gears today!

I thought I was going to make it out to the range earlier today so I picked up the 770 and was going to check the chamber but the bolt stuck as I went to move the action. I expressed my feelings with a few choice adjectives and started scratching my head again thinking about how I'd remedy this issue.

I've seen a video on the Internet of this same problem. It has to do with one of the screws having a taper at it's heads base. Each time you put rifle together and torque everything down this taper allows the screw to dig a little deeper in the plastic stock eventually contacting the bolts locking lugs on the other end.

After unscrewing the barrel and receiver from the rifle AGAIN I thought I had a little part that would give the screw more surface area with less taper to create more strength. One box I looked in had one in it but I didn't see it there the first time and found another in another room eventually going back to this box to look for something to drive the part into place with and then found the little part. :banghead:

A couple real careful measurements and drill bit sizes later I had the part in place but didn't manage to grab threads on the receiver with the mounting screw. Being the other screw is longer I pulled it out and set the part in place by torquing the screw in real tight. A couple more choice adjectives were used during this process as well.

After all of the guff this thing gave me going into place it doesn't look so pretty but it functions just as it was intended to do, now I just hope it takes a bluing well. Oh yeah after all of this I get to clean this thing again!:banghead:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3190135.jpg
Oh yeah this little part came out of some roller blades, it sets on the outside of the bearings but I don't know what they are called.


To be continued, at this point that just sounds like I'm asking for trouble!

Wylie1
March 19, 2011, 11:48 PM
After I finished cleaning up the 770 this time I rushed it out the door to the range along with the old Mosin. I should have known something was amiss once I got to the range being I left the bolt for the Mosin at home!:banghead:

It started out pretty calm with out much wind but by the time I had the rifle close to sighted in with the last of the Q3130s the wind picked up and I was thinking I should have brought some gloves.

I have to start narrowing this down one adjustment at a time although I didn't know I would have to do the work with the screw's issue.

The groups were going bad again today even with a little time between rounds at some points while shooting for cooling of the bore. I know I'm a much better shot then what was being put on paper today so I'm thinking this Nikon I got such a good deal on might be a lemon. Shot pattern was wild not making any discernible sense to me.

During the shooting today I was checking the screws to see if they had loosened but they remained tight and tightening them more did move my group with the Q3130 rounds so here we go with more advanced modifications. Epoxy bedding is just a messy thing that scares me a bit and the machining of bedding blocks with the tools I have at hand could be a great effort wasted but I've been through this type of thing before and just have to make the best parts I can with the tools at hand.

juk
March 20, 2011, 12:42 AM
Wow. I think you are about to figure that thing out. LOL! It is unlike Nikon to put out a lemon, but it does happen. My 3-9x40 prostaff has been sitting on my 308 for 1000 rounds, and hasn't even hinted at giving up the ghost. They do have a good warranty, so If you are sure it is the scope, send it off and wait for them to make it right.

I was glad to see that the AMax rounds helped that much. That shows promise! I would seriously look into the Sierra 165 gamekings for hunting though. They are still very accurate, but are designed for hunting. The 168s and AMax bullets can kill, but shot placement may be more critical. I lost a deer that I hit with an AMax. I don't know what happened, but I followed the blood trail for 300 yards before it just vanished. Even had a dog that couldn't pick up the trail. The thing is, I know that I hit that deer well...it wasn't a shot that just "clipped" it and knocked fur off. This thing was hit with an ideal broadside shot. I know some of the ballistic tip bullets have a habit of "exploding" when they hit bone. That would probably take a deer down, but I wouldn't want to chance it on larger game.

Wylie1
March 20, 2011, 02:24 AM
Figured out, not so sure about that really but I'm working on it.

This is a ProStaff BDC on new low mount Quad Weavers so from what you have said I'll leave it be for the time being. If I don't manage to pull the groups in tighter with either torque adjustments or the bedding blocks the Nikon goes bye bye.

The A-MAX really performed and let me know the potential of this rifle. The Bushnell scope wasn't dialed to absolute zero at that time, two clicks up and two to the left should have had it on the mark.

If I am correct an A-MAX (definitely a ballistic tip though) is what I took my deer with this year from what looked to be about 90 to 100 yards out. I had never shot this Savage 270 before and that deer dropped without taking a step. I hit high of my mark because the gun (I would guess) is ranged for 200 to 250 yards.

I have Sierra 168 Matchkings coming already and have seen the best accuracy through the Mosin with the Matchkings. From what I have read the 165 and 168s are right in the middle of the preferred bullet weights for the 1 in 10" bore twist in a 22 inch barrel. As well to go to a heavier bullet sounds to make a mess of the meat and my thought is they may wear the bore slightly faster, IMHO anyway.



The thing is, I know that I hit that deer well I've said the same thing with an Elk I hit with a muzzle loaded 295 grain 50 cal. none coated Powerbelt from right at 100 yards. A very experienced hunter told me that we were on a good blood trail and had seen Elk drop with lesser blood trailing. About three miles later the trail went into some brush and trees and just stopped. I'm convinced aliens abducted my Elk!

Edit:
There was a point I meant to make mention of in todays shooting and had forgotten. The first A-MAX I went to cycle into the chamber from the magazine (I loaded 4 rounds into the magazine without loading one in the chamber) bound up when the bolt pushed it forward hitting the tip and likely flawed the bullets flight pattern. It hit three inches off the mark.

After that I took a quick assessment of the possibility of the o-ring I installed causing this. I found that there is a place somewhere between (just about right in the middle) the bolt contacting the magazine and the sloppy loose position of the magazine where the rounds do cycle without issues.

It seems every time I put my hands on this rifle there is something else that comes to light as an issue and as time goes on (it's only been a week today!) these issues are demanding a more complex remedy. I've actually invested in some barley flavored nerve tonic, something I haven't done since about Christmas time this year.

I think it's time to crack a beer and set this thing aside for an evening!

Wylie1
March 20, 2011, 09:02 AM
I'm not sure if it was the beer or common sense that got to me about 10 minutes in on milling the aluminum but I think my marbles rattled loose at the range or something. Trying to mill the aluminum wasn't the best idea I've had this week!

I pulled the old JB Kwik deodorant stick trick and got bedded up in no time at all. That Devcon plastic steel is some solid stuff but spooks me, JB Kwik is sooooo much easier to work with!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3190136.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P3190137-1.jpg
Likely not the best you've ever seen but it could have been a lot worse. The action has been pulled, cleaned, oiled and bolted back down again. I had some bubbles trying to mess with me, hopefully this will smash them back down.

I guess I could have got a picture but most the of the plastic support material in the area where I was going to put the bedding blocks was removed. I goofed on one of the screw's sleeves so I had to turn a piece of aluminum for the initial bedding, I didn't want to have too much shrinkage doing everything in one fill. I'm not even sure if I want to do a skim coat yet, I'll just have to see how this turns out.

I have an unused package of the Brownells glass kit but figure this may be good enough. On second thought, I am going to do a skim coat.

Wylie1
March 20, 2011, 09:33 PM
Over on the Firing Line Forum there was someone who had stripped out the threads on a Remington 770 and it seems I am at the last of mine.

At the point where this rifle was it's most accurate I had used a single hex wrench to tighten the screw that is threaded into the barrel and torqued on it pretty hard. Keeping this in mind I have been tightening this screw real tight as well as the other two.

I lost what looked to be three threads this morning but managed to heat the retention ring for the barrel screw while trying to drill for some more depth for the screw. It sank in some and remained hot long enough to get it to sink in a little more with use of the screw. It is secure now but I don't want to mess with this screw much until I do something with it.

I'm thinking of running a nut up on the screw, inserting the screw into the threaded hole, turning the nut down onto the barrel and then welding it in place. What should I know in order to do this? Tack it? run a bead all the way around? Mig, tig, oxygen depleted? I don't know very much at all about welding and less about welding on gun barrels so any information you may be able to supply would be of great help.

Coal Dragger
March 20, 2011, 09:50 PM
If you weld on that barrel you will likely ruin the heat treatment of the steel, creating a dangerous and unsafe weapon. I have heard of this type of thing being done to weld up the lugs on a 1911 barrel for fitting, but almost no one does it anymore since over sized match barrels are readily available. Also keep in mind a pistol barrel is a very different animal than a rifle barrel in the kind of pressures it is going to see. Huge difference between 15,000 PSI and 60,000 PSI.

Have you ever considered maybe not messing about with this rifle other than smoothing up the action just a smidge? Well no matter, you've pretty much voided any warranty you might have had, so you way as well try to do what you can with it. Your obsession with tinkering may get you burned pretty badly on this one, some things are just better left alone....

Wylie1
March 20, 2011, 11:11 PM
Thanks I was wondering if the metal might be effected by way of welding.

I have already done what I can with the action and other then my last trip to the range it seems to be smoothing some as it is used.

Messing about as you call it has brought this rifle from something I wouldn't consider hunting with to something I'm getting close to being able to make a good long shots with. Besides that I feel it is now a more stable trustworthy fire arm outside of this threaded hole under the barrel.

I don't know how much of this thread you have read but what broken parts would be sent back to Remington would only be replaced with the same product that malfunctioned in the first place.

As far as the barrel goes, in sending it back I loose all that has been put into the barrel in the way of break in rounds (200 of them) and all of the cleaning supplies involved which equals about half the expense of the rifle barring shipping of the barrel.

NCsmitty
March 20, 2011, 11:40 PM
First off, don't go welding on your rifle, as you may be able to drill and tap the bad screw hole to a larger size. Try to avoid breaking down your action/stock assembly so much, as I think it will be fine with the mods that you have done.



NCsmitty

Craigman
March 21, 2011, 12:46 AM
google - HELICOIL. stainless thread insert. works wonders and is easy to use. just drill your threads out, then re-tap with a helicoil tap then screw the new stainless threads in place. they come in different length sizes and can usually be found at auto part stores or farm supply.

Wylie1
March 21, 2011, 03:10 AM
NCsmitty,
No I'm not going to be welding on any rifle after reading what I have on the internet and the replies I have got here.
This is right at the chamber were the screw is stripping. I wouldn't want to through drill that? I don't even see how they tapped this hole because it is so shallow. It would take a seriously short tapered bottom tap the like of which I never seen.

I do like the idea for more surface area retention although to get to this hole the screw has to go through the stock where there is a seriously hard piece of metal. A Blue Mole drill bit hardly scratches this stuff.

This should the last thing I plan to do with the rifle other then fill my freezer and out shoot some friends with a cheap rifle.

Craigman,
I'm not really a big fan of Helicoils, I've personally had them come out with bolts in the past.

snake284
March 21, 2011, 06:42 AM
I don't know much about the 770 except that a friend bought one in .300 Win. Mag. He says it's reasonably accurate and loves to hunt with it. However, one thing I saw about it, made me question weather I would want one. The barrel is pinned into the action. Now, I really have no problem with this technology as far as strength ,except I would want to know if a new barrel can be put on should the original barrel go south some day and how would this be done? Of another barrel could be simply pressed and pinned in place, could a Local Gun Smith do this, or would you have to send it in to Remington? This would limit your choices where you may want a bull barrel, a varmint barrel, or a stainless one. Would it limit your choices? Also can the action be threaded for a more standard method of barreling? Is there enough metal on the front of the receiver to thread it inside to accept a more standard type barrel? These are my questions and if the answers are negative, I would pass on purchasing a 770. So what is the deal here?

D*N*R*
March 21, 2011, 10:25 AM
Well reading this today motivated me to go shoot my .270 770. After tinkering with my soft bedding(just high temp hot glue). Kind of like rubber boots on a motor idea. I only shot four times ballistic silvertips $$. Suprised again 100 yrds. I figured on alot of resighting - nope. --GROUP--Short version with my second shot (probably me)2 1/2 in. Without that oops 7/8in. center to center. (3&4) shot felt the best a little suprised on trigger pull and holes are touching. Ill work on pictures.

Wylie1
March 21, 2011, 12:42 PM
Snake,
I would think by the time you get a barrel replaced on a rifle like this you could have bought a new rifle for the same expense. I personally wouldn't have an interest in a bull barrel on a rifle like this, it's a hunting rifle.

The only reason I own this rifle is it was a gift, I wouldn't have spent my money on one and now knowing what I do of this rifle I wouldn't suggest one to anyone I know.

If a great deal on one could be had for a maybe $70 to $90 new and the buyer could do the work I've done themselves I'd still be questionable but consider buying it.

I would imagine the action could be threaded but for what reason I wouldn't know, my 42 Mosin cycles smoother then this rifle. The receiver does look a bit thin for threading IMHO.


The deal here is a mistake made by Remington modeled as the 770 that can be altered into a decent rifle with a dead end future. This is a limited use rifle with a lot of short comings built to compete in the low end rifle market where it is what I would consider to be the bottom of the barrel.

I haven't spent enough time with this rifle to know if the barrel is going to hold consistency after repetitive heating and cooling as I'm with the though my scope selection is a bunch of flawed fodder and I have made a mistake of the lack of thread locker at one point.

The 770 is in my mind a torque sensitive rifle which limits its ability to maintain consistent accuracy after being disassembled and reassembled. It may even be that proper torque applied to the screws in assembling the 770 is too much for the plastic stock to withstand and will cause malfunction with one of the screws contacting the locking lugs on the bolt. This is only a guess as I do not have an inch pound torque wrench, but a pretty good guess IMHO.

DNR,
Okay now I understand about your soft bedding you had told me of. Yeah post up some range pictures and some of your work to your rifle too!

Wylie1
March 24, 2011, 02:02 AM
Besides being windy and chilly at the range today I hadn't eaten right and had an energy drink so I had a bit of a shiver thing going on.

I'm sold on the thought the Barska scope I have is a lost cause and I'll be glad to see the trouble maker go. It was mounted on my 1942 Mosin Nagant for the day and failed miserably. I even used the last of the Mosin's preferred rounds and they hit far from the mark.

As for the Nikon it passed with flying colors holding it's mark true as anyone could ask for. Mounted on the Remington 770 I had question at first as the combination was grouping 2 to 2.5 inches at first from 100 yards. Although I didn't want to do it in fear of stripping out what threads are left under the barrel I gave each screw about a 1/4 turn tightening them. This, the adjustments to zero the scope and the Hornady A-MAXs had the 770 on mark better then the rifle has been set to date.

There were a couple other gentlemen at the range I had been talking with and one was grouping pinky finger sized three shot groups with a very nice AK so I asked if he'd like to take a poke at my target with my .308. He obliged and pulled his first shot a little high and right but the second shot aced a 3/4" bull from 100 yards out. I let the other guy I was speaking with run a round through as well but don't remember how he did. On a day like today this gun was shooting better then I was capable of so it looks like it's time for some type of solid rest or good bags to see just what it can do.


I've reloaded some of the Q3130's brass now but being the conditions I decided not to waste my time and will have to test them later off of a steady rest. I have enough A-MAXs left to finalize what I would like to do with the 770 before I take on matching what I have seen come from the A-MAXs.

With my loads I have matched the OAL of the A-MAXs, used Federal Large Rifle Primers, Sierra Matchking 168 grain bullets and incremented .5 grains from 41 grains to 43 grains, 5 cartridges each other then the 10 42.5 grain rounds I made up, just call it a feeling.

I'm not touching anything in the way of adjustments or fasteners on this rifle for as long as possible!

Wylie1
March 28, 2011, 09:12 PM
The next trip to the range the rifle lost the torque I had set it at so it was back to goofing around again.

I removed the screw retainer from the stock for the barrel screw so I can now utilize all of the threads in the barrel, not so fearful of stripping anymore threads now! I also removed the retainer I installed in the stock for the screw next to the magazine. I did the same as I have done with my muzzle loader milling out hex screws and using them as pillar bedding which turned out well but still has to be seen at the range.

A 0-60 inch/pound torque wrench is on the way as well as 1000 Federal 210M primers, cases are tumbling at the moment and this mission continues.

Wylie1
April 6, 2011, 09:02 PM
For any of you that might be following this thread here is a link to a post that is related to the work I'm doing to this rifle.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7226726&postcount=30

Although I am a bit convoluted and scattered with this post the link below will help understand how I pillar bedded the 770s stock. I removed the retainer for the barrel's screw by turning the hex head screw/pillar in from the barrel's side of the stock which pressed this retainer out of the stock. This allowed for more threads to be grabbed by the screw and far less fear of stripping anymore threads out of the barrel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7184873&postcount=23

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P4060178.jpg

The pillar bedding stands about .001" above the bedding and the hardest part was the contour of the barrel mating to the pillar bedding but it seems I have done well. In the pictures in the first link above you'll notice the 42.5 grain load's POI lowers as the .014 thickness brass begins to heat. This was a test as I did send those rounds through the rifle a bit quicker to heat the barrel. It went off just as I expected. The reasoning for the brass plates is to create a little spring like tension against the screws threads and it seems to work to hold torque setting on the screw much better then the rifle has done to date. If this was any form of rapid fire type rifle I wouldn't have considered this type of application for reasons of bullet POI dropping like it does once the barrel heats the brass.

At the block under the forward piece of brass there is a narrow application of Plummer's Weld Epoxy, kind of a rubbery epoxy with a bit of give as well as a narrow application toward the forward edge under the rear piece of brass.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P4060179.jpg

Okay go ahead and laugh at me now or call me Bubba, I don't care this worked well and I'll see how it does over time but I think I'm sold. Looking at the targets again and thinking about it I'm going to shave a hair off of the right side of the forward piece of brass as it looks like POI settles to the right as the brass heats up.

Wylie1
April 8, 2011, 09:43 PM
I knew you could and it seems to be where the magic starts to play out with the 770 or at least the way I have mine set up. Now I have to work in .5 inch pounds of torque in either direction and see what happens.

It was a little cold for the range at 32 to 34 degrees while I was shooting today but that just meant I had the range all to myself and could set up all of my targets at the same time. I went through the rounds fairly quickly today and seen far less effect from the heating of the barrel. I'm thinking what I had seen in the past and thought was the barrel heating was the torque loosening.

By the time I had shot four five round sets starting from 40.5 grains of IMR 4895 increasing by .2 grains each set I seen that the magic was going away. The last 2 sets of five I shot at 200 yards and have to get to know my BDC reticle better because they were about four inches low but didn't group too badly.

The best loads were 40.9 grains of IMR4895, Winchester 7.62 x 51 brass, Federal 210m primers, 168 grain Sierra MatchKing bullets in stainless steel washed cases. One thing I botched with my loads was I didn't chamfer the cases before I seated the bullets so I see potential for accuracy gain in that aspect.

Looks like thing are going the right direction. These targets were shot from 100 yards off bags on a bench. If this thing starts shooting much better it may be better than I am.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P4080180.jpg

juk
April 9, 2011, 04:00 AM
Just from my personal experience, my 3-9x40 Prostaff BDC is almost perfectly calibrated with my 308 loads. I just found the load that was the most accurate, and started changing the magnification to adjust with the drop. 8x is the ideal magnification for my gun. All of my shots stay "in the bubble" out to 350 yards.

My loads are Hornady cases, CCI LR primers, and 43 grains of IMR 4064 under a 165 Gameking. All of that is out of a 24" tube though. So, you may want to start around 8x and fiddle with it until you get it figured out.

You may want to look into powder/temperature sensitivity. I wouldn't have believed it had I not played around with it myself. My loads with 4064 will change POI in different temperatures. In the summer, It will be dead on at 100 yards. The exact same load in winter will drop 2" at 100 yards. It is the same size group, just 2" south of the bull. It doesn't bother me much at all. I just make the adjustment on the scope when the temps start to change.

Wylie1
April 10, 2011, 01:38 AM
I have thought about this and it looks like I might be center of the first circle under the cross hairs at 200 yards. My POI was 4 to 5 inches low at 200 yards using what I gathered from Nikon's web site. My guess on the Nikon web site calculator told me to use the top of this circle although it was for 212 yards. As long as I can see the target without the circles getting in the way of the POI I'm all good. This is one unfavorable thing I have found with the BDC reticle, not having a good visual on POI at all ranges. I did play with that calculator a bunch but it seemed redundant not knowing all the factors involved with a correct calculation.

I do hear you with the temperature range on the powders! This has been on my mind all along while reloading for the 770 and I still haven't had the time to find the information as to what temperature may do to the imr4895. I watched that video in the longest confirmed kill is where the thought came from. I may have a 100 degree difference from the targets shot above to when I go deer hunting and that's just if it's in the mid-seventies. All but the last two weeks of this last deer season was in that temperature range and higher at the beginning and dropped drastically the last two weekends of the hunt season. I'm trying to pay attention to the temperatures and how it effects POI. A very good point and thank you for bring it up.

One thing I haven't taken into account is shooting position in relation to what type of powder is used. Some are more stable than others when this is taken into account as well.

NCsmitty
April 10, 2011, 11:51 AM
You'll find that many of the older IMR powders, and that includes IMR4064 and IMR4895, are susceptible to temperature extremes. A near maximum load developed in the warm temperatures of summer often shows a marked decrease in velocity and a different POI in sub freezing temperatures. However, that does not usually constitute a safety concern.

The big problem can occur if a near max load is developed in the cold weather and then shot in hot temperatures. That alone can possibly raise pressures to dangerous levels, and give erratic accuracy.
And I never leave my ammo sitting in the summer sun, regardless of the powder that I am using.
Powder manufacturer's seem to be addressing the temperature sensitivity of their powders more the past few years, and I use Hodgdon powders more than others for that reason.



NCsmitty

Wylie1
April 10, 2011, 11:29 PM
It was a bit windy here today for shooting, it should have been for motorcycles too but I was wrenching so I was riding, it's like a rule or something.

I looked around a little while last night and only found one post mentioning the IMR isn't as temperature stable as the Hodgdons, I'll just stick with the IMR and see how it changes.

The other day at the range I brought along my Mosin and racked a bunch of rounds through it sighting a scope in. Pretty much a waste of time though the eye relief was scary with the recoil of the Mosin and did smack my glasses once. The rifle got warm enough that cartridges just sitting in the rifle for any mount of time made a difference in the recoil and POI. I used Hodgden 4350 in those loads.

juk
April 10, 2011, 11:50 PM
I have been wanting to try some Varget. It is supposed to be temperature insensitive and very versatile. Like I said earlier though, once I figured the 4064's performance at different temps, I don't even worry about it anymore. I make two adjustments on my scope a year and that covers me for summer shooting and winter shooting.

Mr. T
April 11, 2011, 02:10 AM
Man after looking at all of that, I think I'll spend the extra money on an older used Remington Model 700. I wish you the best of luck though with your modifications.

Wylie1
April 11, 2011, 11:26 AM
juk,
Before hunting I take a few practice shots to make sure the rifle I'm using is on mark and if I have to I'll make adjustments then. I have a few warmer days coming up next week if the forecast is correct so they may just give me an idea as my last day at the range was just about freezing temps. Good info, thanks!

Thanks Mr.T,
Honestly I wouldn't suggest this rifle to anyone being what I have been through with and I may see one future issue to deal with still. It looks like I may have to do something with the magazine's spring action clip in the stock next. I don't think it should be a real major issue to cure but all the flaws in the rifle sure add up.
The last time at the range (I forgot to mention this!)when I loaded the magazine the first shot made the magazine fall out of the rifle. It looks like the plastic retainer for the spring on one side of the clip has a crack in it.

BrocLuno
April 11, 2011, 12:20 PM
Fascinating - this design seems to be the culmination of the been counters at Remington over the engineers and craftsmen? It sounds like they have taken every modern material or process and applied it in the least desirable way?

Plastic is just that - a substance that will deform over time with heat or pressure. To get it to stop doing that, it must have some sort of minimally compressible reinforcing fiber like glass or carbon. I have a 597 with a similar stock. It's not a joy to work on, but it is pretty weatherproof. Of course my rifle does not put any real demands on the stock - yours does.

I like all your mods and your thinking. It is progressing, but holy cow - that's a lot of work. The mild steel receiver is an issue that might cause problems with some mods. Shallow thread are another - yikes, it's one thing after another. Oh well, keep going and you WILL BE the guru of the 770 :)

Wylie1
April 11, 2011, 05:43 PM
I'm not going for guru status, I'm just a perpetual tinkerer trying to make the best of what I have.

Wylie1
April 16, 2011, 06:08 PM
This rifle now shoots better than I can at least on days like yesterday. Conditions were windy and raining yesterday where my friend and I set up to shoot.

I started out at 100 yards and forgot to run a dry patch or two through the barrel before shooting so I'll just have to try it next time and see if the first shot is fouled again.

Even in crap conditions I managed to center a bulls eye as well as anyone could ask for from 100 yards so we moved back to 200 yards.

With the 40.9 grains of IMR 4895, 168gr MatchKings and the Nikon set just a hair off 9 the BDC's first circle down from the crosshairs sets point of impact dead center of the circle at 200 yards. Well as far as I can tell being the conditions we were shooting in.

Time for the sled.
Edit: To help insure a longer life of accuracy out of this rifle I built a bore guide and modified my cleaning rod with some 3/16 in shrink tubing.

The bore guide is soon to be lined with JB Weld thinned with denatured Alcohol and turned on a 6rpm rack used for coating fishing rods. Extending the aluminum tube with the brass tubing was just using materials at hand and makes the patches blue. No biggie, it can be fixed.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/Wylie_Rods/P4160184.jpg

Wylie1
June 17, 2012, 03:34 AM
This is by far the worst rifle I have ever put my hands on.

My dark bored 1942 Mosin Nagant is more consistant and more accurate with hand loads.

Just when I thought the 770 had stabilized and was shooting good groups I'd take it out the next time to see a different POI.

I haven't cleaned it since it went to the range last because I'm completely sick of this junk representation of rifle.

I ended up taking my deer last year with my muzzleloading rifle after having to pass on long range shots at nice bucks because this rifle just wouldn't inspire the confidence to shoot beyond 100 yards.

Almost a year and a half now and I've emailed Remington and told them I will never buy one of there products, I don't care if it's a pocket knife I get a $10 refund on that costs $5, I'm not doing business with them.

Kachok
June 17, 2012, 03:57 AM
Amen brother, I swore off Remington after my third rifle in a row failed me, I used to be a hardcore fan so I was heartbroken. Now I shoot Savages and my fantastic Tikka. I always warn people to stay away from 770s they are the worst bolt gun on the market.

hardluk1
June 17, 2012, 03:16 PM
I to would buy a SS savage or tika.

theotherwaldo
July 20, 2012, 10:19 PM
Thank you, Wylie1. You just saved me from a $300.00 mistake.

I had just put $35.00 down on one of these clunkers. I'm writing it off and telling the dealer to put that Model 770 back on the shelf.

Again, thanks.

Wylie1
July 21, 2012, 02:14 AM
Hi theotherWaldo,
I'm glad I could help. From what I have gathered some of these 770s will shoot but getting one that is accurate is a crap shoot not many will be willing to throw $300 at. Even if one does shoot well right out of the box it may be short lived with all the malfunctions to eventually overcome.

I now own a Tikka T3 Lite and it is worlds away from the Rem. I may do a Bell and Carlson stock and a slightly higher magnification scope if I read it's accuracy correctly. Seems to open holes at 100 yards and not by much, serious tack driver! There are too many budget rifles with so much more to offer than the Rem 770.

Marlin XS7/XL7 or now known as X7
Savage/Stevens 110
Weatherby Vanguard

I haven't been able to gather much information yet but another that has gained my personal interest as a starter bolt action rifle to build on would be the (Guaranteed M.O.A. out of the box)Thomson Center Dimension. The look isn't for everyone I guess, I don't mind it but I'm a function before form type for the most part anyway.

Patocazador
July 21, 2012, 01:32 PM
Man after looking at all of that, I think I'll spend the extra money on an older used Remington Model 700. I wish you the best of luck though with your modifications.
I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. T. Of course, the newest Remington 700 I have is over 20 years old and I love the 700 action.

Wylie, I applauded your efforts to begin with but assumed (correctly as it turned out) that this project was going to be a case of diminishing returns. I would have quit before the clip fell apart.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but trading this new rifle for a quality used barreled action when you first got it was surely the way to go.

I really enjoyed reading this thread until the point where I wished I could have grabbed you by the shoulders and shaken you until you tossed it in the trash. Piece of mind is worth more than a free junky rifle. I am sorry it didn't work out with all the time and effort you put into it.

Kachok
July 21, 2012, 09:59 PM
Gatta love those Tikkas, a 6lbs, refined, tack driver for under $500!! Who needs Remington's half baked garbage?

Screamin'Eagle
July 22, 2012, 02:52 AM
Wylie,

If you're done tinkering with the 770, I'll have a stab at it. :D

Coal Dragger
July 22, 2012, 03:02 AM
Well can't say I'm surprised that things turned out this way, but big kudos to Wylie1 for giving it the old college try!

Wylie1
July 23, 2012, 08:06 AM
Scariest thing is I may still throw some more powder and lead through this thing. After pulling the scope and putting it on the Tikka I had to mail it into Nikon, wouldn't zero or adjust correctly. Here I sit with two brand new 3-9x40 Prostaffs BDCs returned from Nikon waiting for 4-12x40. One major flaw to rifles without iron sights if you ask me! The extra cash for the CRT just wasn't in the cards.

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