Argument with an Anti about my parenting


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Yo Mama
March 14, 2011, 09:06 AM
I was over at my in-laws last night, and my Father in law got into it with me on gun rights. This came after I told them I would have no problem with my children having guns and knives. I don't mind arguments or debates, but when kids get thrown in the mix my emotions raise quickly.

I feel I'm a responsible and good parent. I want my children to know how to use guns and knives, and it's my responsibility to give them this information. My kids are one and four. My Father in law thought I meant I would give my four year old a knife and let her run around with it, bring it to school, do what ever she wants with it. I was just amazed. She would learn how to use it supervised, she would not keep it, and it would only be hers when she matures to a point that I feel she would be safe. The issue that got me was that my parenting was in focus, vs. his feelings on gun/weapon control.

Other arguments from him included that there should be more gun free zones, people shouldn't have guns, and I'm an idiot and a looney. We left soon after. I'll never talk about this again with him, and I feel everyone else agreed with me, so I've at least done my job with the rest of the family.

Just needed to vent. I just don't get it sometimes, this guy is 20 years military, and would love if everyone was disarmed. I left upset, and I'm sure he did, all because I thought my kid was awsome for being into what I'm into.

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Mousegun
March 14, 2011, 09:18 AM
this guy is 20 years military

Prolly the Air Force. :p:evil:

Yo Mama
March 14, 2011, 09:25 AM
That's creepy how you knew Mousegun, yep, Air Force. :)

LibShooter
March 14, 2011, 09:34 AM
I got my first pocket knife for my 8th or 9th birthday. I stabbed myself in the hand that night. That was a good safety lesson.

However, my advice is to never get into arguments with your in-laws. Even if you win you might lose.

svtruth
March 14, 2011, 09:35 AM
said 'The age of wisdom begins when you get a pocket knife.'

Shovelhead
March 14, 2011, 09:43 AM
I am reminded of an old saying:

“Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”

merlinfire
March 14, 2011, 09:44 AM
Most anti's arguments are at least partially based on an emotional response, and nothing evokes that response better than children.

It doesn't help that there are hundreds of incidents of children accidentally killing themselves or other children. A lot of people are going to have issues with children and guns.

I agree that with the proper training and oversight that a child can participate in shooting sports and hunting quite safely. But its a lot easier to say "yes, my son has hunted with me a number of times and got his first buck" as proof of safety, than talking about it beforehand, without proof to convince the doubter. And there will be doubters.

J-Bar
March 14, 2011, 09:50 AM
Don't let him see you getting mad.Just laugh at him every time he says something. See what happens.

ForumSurfer
March 14, 2011, 09:55 AM
this guy is 20 years military, and would love if everyone was disarmed.

People hold some odd beliefs. I have a coworker who was army infantry that feels the same way. His neighbor was a victim of a home invasion. They tied up the entire family with duct tape while they robbed the place. Thankfully, no one was hurt (lucky, too since they had two attractive teenage daughters...I shutter to think what could have happened). Still, this guy is adamant that a gun is a bad thing in anyone's hands and that in such a situation one should just do as the attacker requests. Yeah my jaw hit the floor, too. I didn't even know how to respond.

It is an argument that you will likely not win, ever.

What is more important is that you and the wife are on the same page.

I'd be respectful, but the decision is yours and your wife's decision. I would let him know that, respectfully.

On another note...collapsible stocks help your kids get better cheek welds at an early age on your ar. :) I posted pics of my 8 (7 at the time) first shooting outing on facebook. Ok, his first outing where he demonstrated that he was ready to handle the responsibility of actually shooting, anyway. 3 coworkers un-friended me. :)

merlinfire
March 14, 2011, 10:01 AM
3 coworkers un-friended me.

When you go on your homicidal killing spree, they don't want to be considered accomplices!

I few of my co-workers know I'm a gun nut, but they respect me because I'm a nice and responsible guy. Sometimes you just have to be a good example and people start to see that not all stereotypes are accurate. Getting into lengthy debates and getting upset about it won't show people anything, except that their thoughts of gun owners are vindicated.

Some people though, well, can't be swayed.

Yarddog
March 14, 2011, 10:06 AM
Yea you'll never win him over, so be polite while at his house, He was stationed in San Fransisco ROFLAO ; )
Y/D

sarge83
March 14, 2011, 10:06 AM
My brother has a friend that is ex-army, two tours in iraq and he hates the thought of a kid anywhere near a gun, goes spastic. Doesn't matter if the kid is hunting or target shooting with proper supervision. I guess they are supposed to learn about firearms from the movies and the play ground in his mind.

He has issues with civilians owning anything he deems an assault rifle or a high capacity handgun. He got furious with me when I told him his problem was he was a control freak and just wanted to pick and choose who gets to own a gun at his and the governments leisure and in his world if you were not military, ex-military or leo you didn't rate owning one. He got even angrier when I said it must be nice when feel you are in the exclusive club that gets to pick and choose who lives and dies based on your whims and the uniform you wear or used to wear.

CZguy
March 14, 2011, 10:26 AM
Mousegun

Prolly the Air Force.

Yo Mama,

That's creepy how you knew Mousegun, yep, Air Force.

All right, steady down you two. I'm retired Air Force, and am pro second amendment. :D

There are just some in laws that you have to limit the conversation to talking about the weather. ;)

MtnCreek
March 14, 2011, 10:29 AM
My brother has a friend that is ex-army, two tours in iraq and he hates the thought of a kid anywhere near a gun, goes spastic.

No telling what this guy saw while down range. I would probably just thank him for his service and if you wanted to take a little jab, you could point out that he was also protecting your 2a rights.

bruzer
March 14, 2011, 10:31 AM
If you need to feel good about your parenting skills you came to the right place. You are responsible for the proper training of your kids with guns and knives and a bunch of other stuff that will gray your hair. Your doing great, hang in there.
As for the Father-In-Law here are some words of wisdom. I have always gotten along with my In-Laws but one day my Father-In-Law got on a subject that got heated. We did not yell and scream but voices were raised and neither one of use was a happy camper. Once we got home and had a chance to calm down, my Wife was upset thinking that her Husband and Dad would never get along. I told my Wife that as for me, THAT WILL NEVER BE AN ISSUE AGAIN. I have respect for the man because he is the Father of my Wife. A Wife that I have had for 25 years. A man that I care for and LOVE. I harbor no bad feelings. He is entitled to his opinions and although I strongly disagree with some of his positions I WILL NEVER LET OUR DIFFERENCES OF OPINION BE AN ISSUE AGAIN. He may try and hook me in but I stand firm without having to say a word. You don't have to tip toe but realize there are certain things you don't need to discuss with the man. And if none of this works always remember, No matter how bad a visit you have with him at the end of the day you don't have to sleep with him because you're sleeping with his daughter.
Good luck,
Mike

geekWithA.45
March 14, 2011, 10:33 AM
My Father in law thought I meant I would give my four year old a knife and let her run around with it, bring it to school, do what ever she wants with it.

Don't sweat it, FIL's irrationality is not a reflection on you, it's a reflection on FIL.

People believe the strangest damned things when they get weirded and stressed out.

Many years back, @ the 4th of July block party, I setup an area for the kids to shoot airsofts at targets, like knock over cups and stuff. This area included a large, covering tarp to keep the pellets contained.

The stressed out antis, not knowing that I was "the guy", confided in me that they knew that the tarp was "so they wouldn't see" the kids "shooting animals" with "real guns".

Seriously.

They really believed that.

Arkansas Paul
March 14, 2011, 10:36 AM
My Father in law thought I meant I would give my four year old a knife and let her run around with it, bring it to school, do what ever she wants with it.


Sounds to me like you were attempting to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
You say this was your father in law. Just out of curiosity, what does your spouse think about it? I mean both the issue and the argument with the father.

Screendmon
March 14, 2011, 10:47 AM
My wife says " No one should have guns"
and I tell her she is right. "No one should have guns, but since the BGs do, I do"
plus I like to target shoot

Standing Wolf
March 14, 2011, 10:54 AM
I wish my father had introduced me to shooting.

Gouranga
March 14, 2011, 11:23 AM
lol. x2 for not worth it top argue with the FIL. You won't win, he won't win, what can happen is you damage the relationship between you and your wife and/or her and her father. That is a fight that simply is not worth fighting.

Me and my in-laws have a few disagreements in our opinions. However, they go out of their way to never interfere with me and my wife and my kids. I have and always will give them the respect they deserve as the parents of my wife, and the grandparents of my children.

If anything, I would just acknowledge, you are not going to ever agree on that topic but that you also are not going to endanger his grandkids. That is about the best truce you can hope for.

PcolaDawg
March 14, 2011, 11:25 AM
Hang in there. You are doing the right thing with your kids.

My father in law grew up a Mennonite, was drafted, but due to his religious beliefs refused to handle a weapon. Fortunately for him at the time, the Army had a special basic training where conscientious objectors could go and they wouldn't have to ever handle a rifle or other weapon. So, even though he refused to handle a gun, my father in law served honorably as a medic.

You'd think, based on his beliefs, he would be very upset with me and how I've raised his grandkids (they all were taught to shoot at an early age, grew up with knives, and had their own handguns before they graduated high school). But he has been very supportive of the way I've taught my kids (and even my wife) about guns. He does not care in the least that I carry a gun at all times and even seems pleased that his daughter (my wife) has her conceal/carry permit and carries a little pistol.

So, again, hang in there. The problem is with your father in law, not you. Hope you can find a way to handle the dispute and remain at peace with your in-laws.

foghornl
March 14, 2011, 11:34 AM
Or as I say

"...My In-Laws & Out-Laws..." :neener: :neener: :neener:

Couple of them are pretty far left, so yeah, I've had those discussions, too

Toforo
March 14, 2011, 11:49 AM
I am reminded of an old saying:

“Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”
Aye to that - and then there's the other one....

Never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

Nushif
March 14, 2011, 11:50 AM
A few of my co-workers know I'm a gun nut, but they respect me because I'm a nice and responsible guy.

That.

Most people who know me actually know I'm an avid gunner and thus far, while getting maybe one or two truly negative responses I've taken a lot of people shooting for their first time and even got approached a few times when it comes to firearms questions.
that takes the cake is probably this Hipster girl who found out that they raflfed an M4 clone off during second amendment week at school ... she hoped it went to me, because she "knows I wouldn't do anything dumb."

Be a good example and over time ... you'll win people over.

Patriotme
March 14, 2011, 11:51 AM
I have learned over the last couple of years that you will never win some people over to your side. You can use facts, logic, stats and history. It doesn't matter. Some people know what they know in spite of reality.
I don't argue with them anymore. I've learned to cut my losses and go after the open minded person listening in on the discussion. You might convince someone with an open mind and no knowledge but you will not convince a close minded fool of anything.
In politics and gun debates you need to go after the independents. That's your bread and butter.
It's unfortunate that you have to interact with your father in law. I wouldn't bring up the topic again but if he has to bring it up then tell him that you and wife are grown and will do as you please. He rasied his kids now you'll raise yours (and they won't be sheep).

HGUNHNTR
March 14, 2011, 12:22 PM
I've reached the point in my life where I have stopped trying to actively change peoples minds about an issue to which they are emotionally tied. I am very Liberal in my politics, and very pro second amendment. That combination has "won over" more people, I'm guessing, than many family arguments.

sarge83
March 14, 2011, 12:24 PM
I did thank him but I disagree with him.

browneu
March 14, 2011, 12:25 PM
Some arguments aren't worth fighting. However, in your case your father in law might cause issues with your wife if he thinks his grandkids are in danger.

Fortunately, my father in law is pro second amendment like me. We often go shooting together and show each other our new toys in the open. (Normally the family is present including the kids.)

I hope this blows over for you but my cynical side thinks that it might be something that could cause some trouble if you don't tread carefully during your next couple of visits with him.

merlinfire
March 14, 2011, 01:09 PM
I am very Liberal in my politics, and very pro second amendment. That combination has "won over" more people, I'm guessing, than many family arguments.

It's hard to change people's minds if you come from a direction they've already build defenses on. Since you don't fit the stereotype of a gun owner, you hit em where they're not expecting. Not a dig on conservative gun owners, but I do know for a fact that I have some fairly liberal friends that would not have been as comfortable with my pro-2a stance if I had fit their stereotypes. Just a fact.

If we could ever convince a generally liberal organization (that has clout) to be pro-2a, that might do more for "hearts and minds" than the NRA ever did.

Arkansas Paul
March 14, 2011, 02:27 PM
I am very Liberal in my politics, and very pro second amendment.


Holy cow! I'm not the only one! :what:

Grousefeather
March 14, 2011, 02:28 PM
Hmmmm, I am ex AF, and PRO gun, he must have been a cook. lol.

armoredman
March 14, 2011, 02:39 PM
Ex sailor here, our guns tended to be too big to carry. :) As for parenting and firearms, I posted these pictures before of me and my son, and I think they say it all.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Rickys%20range%20day/familytime.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Rickys%20range%20day/Rickyhappy.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Rickys%20range%20day/Rickyposter.jpg

No one "unfriended" me after I posted them, and if someone does, well, they obviously weren't friends to begin with.

NG VI
March 14, 2011, 02:54 PM
I'll never talk about this again with him,


In other words, you learned a valuable lesson!



The stressed out antis, not knowing that I was "the guy", confided in me that they knew that the tarp was "so they wouldn't see" the kids "shooting animals" with "real guns".
Seriously.
They really believed that.



I've noticed that when people take a stance, political, religious, on a TV show, movie, or game, doesn't matter, that they don't actually know much about, whether or not they could quickly and painlessly learn more, they tend to believe all kinds of wild things.

Things an even slightly more informed person would be absolutely ashamed to admit believing. Also they can tend to be suspicious as all hell, usually just because that's the way the wind blows.


I wish my father had introduced me to shooting.
__________________


Me too

xfyrfiter
March 14, 2011, 02:55 PM
My younger brother is a former Marine, politically farther to the right than Atilla The Hun,not an anti in any way, but will not have anything to do with guns. so, just goes to show that you never know what makes some folks tick.

Shadow 7D
March 14, 2011, 03:03 PM
There are some who don't want to associate with guns do to traumatic or 'bad' previous personal experiences, such as loosing a friend as a child in a gun accident.

Others just hate them,
but telling them apart is hard when they are screaming at you.

Hoppes Love Potion
March 14, 2011, 03:27 PM
There's really no reason for you and your FIL to visit the topic for several years, is there? In the meantime, safe weapons handling can be gradually introduced to your kids. It can be as simple as teaching a 2-year-old to keep his toy raygun pointed in a safe direction. And of course Dad and Mom will lead by example.

teumessian_fox
March 14, 2011, 03:34 PM
I adopted a policy long ago, viz. if any family member repeatedly brings up controversial issues, it's because said family member is a troublemaker and thrives on conflict. I refuse to have contact with such defective, low life, mentally disturbed people.

It's made my life much more peaceful.

I don't know what your circumstance is, but it sounds like that's just the kind of person your FIL is. And if so, "guns" are only his method of baiting you for a fight. If you didn't have guns, it would probably be religion, or some such. Is he worth the aggravation?

DammitBoy
March 14, 2011, 03:41 PM
I have two friends who served in the military, one in the army playing with tanks, the other in the navy worked on a sub. Both are very anti-gun and neither of them were cooks. :D

Every other single person I know with military backgrounds have been very pro gun. Of course, most of those guys are Marines and gun nuts like me.

Semper Fi maggots! :D

Yo Mama
March 14, 2011, 04:52 PM
Hey all, thanksfor the support and kind words.

Sounds to me like you were attempting to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
You say this was your father in law. Just out of curiosity, what does your spouse think about it? I mean both the issue and the argument with the father.


My Wife thought I was respectful, and rational, and agreed with my points as did her Mom.

I really feel bad about it, I should have had a saving face, and said something like whoa we were just talking a minute ago, and it seems like we are off now, your oppinion matters to me and so I'll just end this here.

Armoredman, your boy's face says it all, and I bet you that when he's older he won't remember all the tv shows he watched, but will remember Dad taking him out shooting.

Some arguments aren't worth fighting. However, in your case your father in law might cause issues with your wife if he thinks his grandkids are in danger.


Exactly my concern. We live close, and see them often. I aknowledge that when my kids do something that shows interest in my passion that I tend to be overjoyed. When I ask my kid what she wants for Christmas, and she says a pink rifle, my heart palpitates. :)

It doesn't mean I'm going to give my four year old a box of ammo, the rifle, and say hey good luck to you.

I'll probably call him tonight to make sure he's ok.

I wish my father had introduced me to shooting.

Not saying your situation is mine, but my dad left when I was 5. Haven't seen him since. Even lives in the same town. I found a few good father figures who were patient with me and taught me.

When I was married, and then had kids, I swore I'd never leave them, and always be a good Dad. I think I've done well, and my family is my life.

CZguy
March 14, 2011, 05:24 PM
Never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

Toforo,

Sounds like you grew up on a farm too. :D

jeepmor
March 14, 2011, 06:39 PM
I can say one thing, you best not have one of your young'ns cut a finger badly, you'll never hear the end of it. Beyond that, I share your position, not his.

Larry E
March 14, 2011, 06:53 PM
Arguing with the in laws or any other relatives about most anything is pretty much pointless. If they want to argue they'll find something to argue about, I just smile and find someone else to talk to. If they think that I'm what they'll find under a horse's tail, that's fine with me and they're not the only ones who think so.

My step son just retired from the AF, and nearly had a kitten when I mentioned I'd gotten an AR. He owns guns, and has hunted although his wife doesn't approve. Didn't ask why he had the attitude because I didn't want to start an argument, and really don't care either.

My nephew who's done at least a couple of tours in Iraq has owned a gun since he was 8 or 9, and likes to shoot.

No accounting for some people's attitudes, and not much use trying to change them usually. I just try to stay away from people who are disagreeable, and since I can be as disagreeable as anyone they're usually happy I stay away. :evil:

THE DARK KNIGHT
March 14, 2011, 07:00 PM
I'm not sure why so many people are so surprised that there are anti-gun veterans out there? There are plenty of cops, veterans, etc. out there who are anti gun. Being in the military or law enforcement doesn't simply make someone pro gun. I know plenty of anti gun cops, veterans, you name it. Guys who come out the Army and think only a trained soldier can handle a gun properly and no one else should have them.

robmkivseries70
March 14, 2011, 07:12 PM
Forum Surfer........I didn't even know how to respond.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...............

Best,
Rob

Onmilo
March 14, 2011, 07:16 PM
Why are you argueing with this person?
YOU are the parent, YOU make the rules and decisions for YOUR children.
When your kids are out of your house they can decide how they wish to approach the rest of their lives.

MoyockDiesel
March 14, 2011, 07:55 PM
Got my first "real" knife from my Grandpa when I was 8...lockblade Ka-Bar 5" blade...my Brother and close cousin got them too. My Mom nearly flipped out, but she dared not go against the patriarch of the family...what he said went....period. I still have to this day...come to think of it I might break out the Never Dull and polish it up. Still in the original leather case with Union Workman Chewing tobacco stamped into the leather...gotta love it. I gave my Son his first knife when he was just a Bear cub scout...Scouting Ole Timer...which he also still has...needless to say his Momma didn't say a word. I think you're doing a fine job. Retired U.S. Navy

whalerman
March 14, 2011, 07:58 PM
I read this board all the time to learn from the wisdom of others. The post by Patriotme is on the money. Some people are always willing to let others carry the load. Liberty isn't free.

hey_poolboy
March 14, 2011, 08:31 PM
I was so little when I got my first pocket knife I don't even remember. It was quite certainly under the age of eight. My Grandfather got me my first .22 rifle at the age or 8 or 9.

When the weather gets a little warmer I plan to take my girls out to shoot that .22 rifle a little bit. They are 5 and 7 years old, and love to sit with me on the back porch and shoot the BB gun. They have both shot a .22 before, but I want to take every opportunity to get them around guns and other responsible gun owners and learn proper safety and courtesy. Fortunately for me my in-laws are fine with it all.

Manco
March 14, 2011, 08:41 PM
My dad (who passed on years ago), two uncles on my mother's side, and two uncles by marriage served in the military (all infantry), but out of them only my dad owned any guns privately, although he didn't seem any more interested in guns than the others. There was no ammo in the house, and he never shot them. And he'd never talk about guns (much less allow me to handle or, heaven forbid, shoot his) except to bad-mouth the M16 (probably well deserved back in the day) and praise the AK-47 (giving it an almost mythical status, swearing that it could chamber and accurately shoot almost any rifle caliber), although he seemed pretty fond of his M1 carbine and his two pistols (a 1911 and a PPK) as collector's pieces.

I'm the only real "gun nut" in my entire extended family (except my mom, sort of), and I know a lot more about them than my dad, rest his soul, but I knew better than to argue with him over it. :) Yes, I tried once or twice upon a time, but he didn't think that any mere civilian could possibly know anything about guns. I would guess that this was a reflection of the view shared by all of the members of my family who have served, that guns are instruments of warfare (and I suppose law enforcement) with little or no applicability to civilian life. I, of course, beg to differ...but silently. ;)

BLACKHAWKNJ
March 14, 2011, 08:44 PM
"20 years military" doesn't mean anything, too many military people are just glorified clerks and desk jockeys, they enlisted because they couldn't find a civilian job with the same pay and benefits and they couldn't find a government job either. Not al that conscientious, either, IMHO. The same goes for too many LEOs. The Army I served in (1967-1971) was not really a gun friendly place, except perhaps in SE Asia where it couldn't be avoided, and it's gotten worse since then.
I am not a parent nor do I portray one on the Internet, several parents I have known with similar situations have made it clear to in laws that they will raise their kids the way THEY see fit and if the grandparents-or anyone else-doesn't like, their options are to 1. Accept it and get over it or 2. Take over raising the kids themselves. Family is important, grandparents and especially grandfathers are wonderful things-I missed out on both of mine-but you don't let them run your life for you.

Mongo the Mutterer
March 14, 2011, 09:05 PM
I remember a wise saying I heard once:

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

If I can see that someone is coming from emotion, not logic, I try not to bother to engage in a debate. You can't convince them, and you will waste your breath, and potentially a relationship with the person. Hoplophobes use emotion not logic.

Shadow 7D
March 14, 2011, 09:40 PM
The phrase, is
"well I guess we will have to politely disagree"
I would also include that you believe in teaching your children responsibility, and that they will be fine, unless of course he completely distrust his own daughter. And drop it
If he brings it up, just loudly (so your mother in law and wife can hear)

tell him that you are there to have a nice time and be polite company, and that you are not allowed, or don't wish, to speak on topics that will cause conflict.

wep45
March 15, 2011, 12:29 AM
why engage in useless conversations?? Its like trying to convince someone that the invisible holy guy you pray to is better than the other person's invisible holy guy.

doc2rn
March 15, 2011, 02:03 AM
Arguements based on emotion and not facts are unwinable because feelings get hurt, and no one wins in the end.

jhngardner367
March 15, 2011, 05:12 AM
I was raised in a rural area,And without a dad around,my uncle and older brother taught me aboutguns,at the age of 5.I'v been married 3 times,and my present wife and I some times hunt or target shoot together.I've got 9 kids,5 grankids,& 3 greatgrandkids,and I served in the army for 9 yrs,including Vietnam.I've taught each of those kids(except for the greatgrandkids--YET)about firearms and firearm safety.When one of my in-laws objected,I just told them it's none of their business.Last month,my 1st ex-wife told me that I was right in teaching them!It seems that my 9yr old granddaughter,while playing at a friend's,saw her playmate's father remove a rifle from the gun cabinet,and start to hand it to his neighbor to look over.She asked,quite loudly"Aren't you gonna check it for bullets?"Embarrassed,he opened the bolt,and acartridge ejected! Say what you will,even if they don't use them,they should know about gun safety!!

jbrown50
March 15, 2011, 07:28 AM
Prolly the Air Force. :p:evil:
I'm a DoD civilian and work around all of the services.

The most anti-2A types are usually the upper eschelon Army and Navy commanders and NCOs.

They got there by being good bureaucrats, not by being pro-2A.

That's why you never want a military takeover of your nation.

ZCORR Jay
March 15, 2011, 08:14 AM
It really is amazing who will be anti 2A. My father and I own may firearms and the other night we got into a long debate about the proposed magazine ban. He was a Marine, is an avid hunter, and has an impressive collection of firearms yet he fully supports limiting the size of clips. :scrutiny:

It ended up in a long debate and no one budged from their stance.

As long as there are two people on this planet there will always be two opinions.

TheProf
March 16, 2011, 02:50 PM
Ok...here's my take on kids and guns...

1. I'm very pro-gun.

2. Yes... we should teach our children gun safety, gun handling...

3. But....... remember: KIDS are KIDS. They are not miniature adults. Even with the best teaching methods, they are prone to lapse to foolishness. There's a greater chance of "momentary lapse of good judgement".

My mantra when it comes to kids and guns: "Teach more, trust less"

Or as Ronald Reagan used to say, "trust but verify".

Never let kids with guns out of your direct 100% supervision. You can't even for one moment let that lapse to 99% supervision.

If the child is not old enough to drive by himself, he has no business having a gun by himself without direct 100% supervision.

Those who say that they trust their 13 year old with having a gun..simply do not appreciate the foolishness that is bound in the heart of a child. Remember that having a gun...is in many ways equal to having the power of life and death. It's serious business.

NMGonzo
March 16, 2011, 07:11 PM
My inlaws are divorced.

The father is a lover of goats of the first order and the mom is really cool.

I might take the mom shooting one day, but the dad can keel over for all I care.

CZguy
March 16, 2011, 09:11 PM
The father is a lover of goats of the first order


I'm not familiar with this phrase, can you explain what it means.

Shadow 7D
March 16, 2011, 09:32 PM
Not a good person
the sort of person that goats run from

as the Scottish joke goes, why do Scots wear kilts...


Cause sheep can hear a zipper from a mile away...

Sam1911
March 16, 2011, 09:44 PM
Seriously?



No. Guess we're finished with constructive advice.

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