AOW semi auto shotgun


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ElToro
March 15, 2011, 02:32 AM
so its established that via a NFA trust a person in CA can acquire an AOW shotgun.no SBS or SBR but an AOW. ( i dont try to understand the goofy laws)

anyway i want an 1100 shorty. anybody making one these days ? must be AOW

serbu pumps dont do it for me

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Zoogster
March 15, 2011, 06:43 AM
anyway i want an 1100 shorty. anybody making one these days ? must be AOW


Problem with many shotguns including the 1100 is that a recoil tube and recoil spring are contained within the stock.
This means it is designed to have the stock attached for operation.


You could design a part that could manage to do the job of the missing tube in the stock, or have some hideous tube combined with a pistol grip so it is sticking out like on many AR pistols, but the problem would be that the 1100 receiver must have started out as a pistol grip only shotgun, or bare receiver to legally become an AOW under federal law.
One originally sold with a stock from the manufacturer could only become a SBS and not an AOW, even in identical configurations with a pistol grip only.


As a result you would likely have a difficult time obtaining an 1100 receiver that had never had a stock attached because that recoil spring contained within it is part of the operational design.
As a result you would have a hard time finding an 1100 receiver even legally able to become your AOW.
This also means any aftermarket design or accessory that could have been created to fill the role of that spring in a more compact form, or the manufacture of some hideous pistol grip that incorporates it also won't have likely already been created, because the market for it won't exist as people don't have a ready supply of 1100 AOW capable receivers.



Long story short, shotguns that require a recoil spring or operational components within the stock are not going to be the best candidates for a California legal AOW.

NG VI
March 15, 2011, 07:53 AM
Maybe you could look for a version of the SPAS-12 like thatit'd be expensive but maybe it's an option.

Sam1911
March 15, 2011, 07:59 AM
Yup, as Zoogster said, you'd have to find a bare receiver that has never had a stock attached. If you buy an 1100 from a dealer and want to cut it down, it can't possibly be an AOW.

The companies like Serbu that are selling new AOWs, are buying 'virgin' receivers from the manufacturer, or working with guns that were sold as PGOs from the factory.

Prince Yamato
March 15, 2011, 01:49 PM
You could get a US manufactured Saiga-12 receiver and have it converted into an AOW.

PTK
March 15, 2011, 01:51 PM
I was going to suggest the same thing - AOW S12s are available for under $1,000.

Zoogster
March 15, 2011, 04:22 PM
You can get an S12, but do remember the magazine of such a firearm needs to have a bullet button installed or otherwise be a fixed magazine.

AOWs are not exempt from the California "Assault Weapon" laws.


An AOW shotgun likely meets the definition of pistol under California law.
Under California law what is exactly a pistol is poorly described and includes a firearm with a barrel less than 16".
So being an AOW may make it not a pistol by federal law, but it could still be a pistol under California law, as well as an AOW.



This has two major impacts on your AOW:

The first is that it must meet an exemption to the California roster of approved handguns, because you can be sure it is not an approved handgun.
Yet likely meets the definition of handgun per California law (while under federal law it is one type of gun only.)
That is not particularly difficult if it is large, it just needs to be a certain minimum length.
A large single shot pistol with a 10 1/2" overall length and at least 6" barrel is exempt.
So it needs to be imported as a single shot, or be brought in by someone moving into California from out of state to legally arrive in California.

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.


Once you own it then you can modify it to be semi-auto, and it no longer needs to meet the exemption criteria, but to be transferred from an FFL to you it must meet that exemption.

You are also permanently subject to this:

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.


It can never not have a bullet button installed, because it must legally have a "fixed magazine" or it becomes an illegal "assault weapon". So you would have to carry around something extra to press the button to remove a magazine.
There is no AOW exemption to assault weapons.
It can also never have a magazine larger than 10 rounds inserted or it would be an illegal assault weapon. Of course since you cannot legally have such a magazine transferred to you anyways due to other legislation that is a moot point.



Finally something like a Saiga with a magazine inserted at a right angle will never be as sleek and easily stored loaded as a tube magazine. You also probably won't be able to make a holster for it that it can smoothly be drawn from. While any tubular shotgun can easily fit in a scabbard or holster while loaded.

Quiet
March 15, 2011, 10:08 PM
OC Armory is in Laguna Hills has CA legal Cadiz Gun Works Saiga-12 AOWs in stock. Price starts at $1800 and goes up depending on accessories.

CA legal Cadiz Gun Works Saiga-12 AOW
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s9/gunrunner99/IMG_4459.jpg

OC Armory also has the Serbu Super Shorty AOW, Safety Harbor KEG-12 AOW and Remington M870MCS AOW in stock.

ElToro
March 16, 2011, 02:00 AM
what about sage sidewinder ? are they still making it ? i only see the ninja (870 based) on their site

MasterSergeantA
June 16, 2011, 01:15 PM
I don't believe that Sage is still building the Sidewinder. I have one and you are pretty much limited to minimum barrel length of 14" without modifying the gas system. They are also not AOWs as they were shipped by Remington with stocks.

Elite Tactical Advantage is offering a new shotgun that uses a similar system.
http://www.elitetacticaladvantage.com/products/shotguns/devastator/devastator.html
They will modify a customer's gun or sell you one outright, BUT since I can't think of a single manufacturer that sells a 'virgin' receiver for a semi-auto, I believe that all of them come with a stock initially and could therefore never be converted to an AOW. Even the short Saiga's that Cadiz and Tromix build come from the factory with a stock attached.

If you are building it yourself, the tax is the same on a SBS as on the AOW, $200US. The only advantage (and I mean ONLY, in my opinion) is that the AOW will transfer for $5 instead of the $200. If you are having it made by a Class II SOT, you would pay the $5 instead of the $200. But most AOWs cost more from the dealer, probably because you are not shelling out as much to Uncle Sugar.

I plan on hanging my Sidewinder under the barrel of one of my ARs using a mount I acquired. To do that, I will have to 'make' and register it as a SBS because once I attach it to the AR it will effectively have a stock. You can always attach or detach a stock to a SBS. You can NEVER attach a stock to an AOW...at least not and stay within the law. My continued freedom is worth more to me than $195.

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