multiple flash overs


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Busyhands94
March 15, 2011, 11:52 AM
has anybody had them happen? i am getting my first BP revolver soon (NAA Super Companion) and i am a bit curious on how i can prevent them, for i have heard that they can be initiated through the percussion caps as well as if you don't put any grease over the cylinder. i have read about in the civil war days they would get the occasional flash over with their BP revolvers. i have heard everything from "nothing happens, it is a bit thrilling though" to "that gun blew up in my hand and i got X amount of stitches from the flying bits of the cylinder" however i am sure that it makes a huge difference with what gun you have and what it is loaded with. i plan to load my NAA super companion with 1.5 grains of Bullseye pistol powder (yes, i absolutely checked and checked some more, i know it is a safe propellant) or maybe triple 7 pistol and i am a bit worried about chain fires.

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makos_goods
March 15, 2011, 12:05 PM
has anybody had them happen? i am getting my first BP revolver soon (NAA Super Companion) and i am a bit curious on how i can prevent them, for i have heard that they can be initiated through the percussion caps as well as if you don't put any grease over the cylinder. i have read about in the civil war days they would get the occasional flash over with their BP revolvers. i have heard everything from "nothing happens, it is a bit thrilling though" to "that gun blew up in my hand and i got X amount of stitches from the flying bits of the cylinder" however i am sure that it makes a huge difference with what gun you have and what it is loaded with. i plan to load my NAA super companion with 1.5 grains of Bullseye pistol powder (yes, i absolutely checked and checked some more, i know it is a safe propellant) or maybe triple 7 pistol and i am a bit worried about chain fires.
Busyhands,
Everyone should read the article I am attaching below. It is one of many tests that have been conducted trying to determine how chainfires occur and how much of a danger do they pose.

But after having said that I'm sure there will be several answers to even this thread with more conjecture and anecdote instead of proof. Firearms in general are the hotbed of wives' tales and BP shooting is the deepest recess of that hot bed. Too many years of bad information being foisted on us by uninformed gun magazine writers, novelist and unsupported word of mouth have gotten us to this point. That along with the common feeling of empowerment in thinking opinion is as valid as data and experience supported with documentation have probably doomed us to never having consensus based on evidence.

Read the following and see how a controlled experiment is performed, documented and reported.

http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/capping.html

Oh yeah... and that is just my opinion.:banghead:
~Mako

45-70 Ranger
March 15, 2011, 12:57 PM
Happened long ago to me. In 1965 I was still in my teens and had been shooting BP revolvers for a couple of years. Went to the river to do a bit of shooting and brought along all the stuff needed to shoot but the crisco! Opps! Ok, I was young then, and thought it would be ok. Not so. After firing off the loads in my old 51, I reloaded without any crisco over the loads. I fired a full cylinder and no problem. Loaded again, and the first round was really three! The round under the hammer went off as did both chambers on either side of it. I was a bit taken back, but no harm was done to me or the weapon.

Did I ever forget the crisco or other lube again? NOPE! Lessons learned as a kid carried with me to this day. Can the multiple discharge happen? Ahhh, yeah, it did to me!

Wade

SwampMouse
March 15, 2011, 01:07 PM
45-70 Ranger, did the balls not fit right? I have heard that is what causes it.

rdstrain49
March 15, 2011, 01:29 PM
Mako;
Very interesting & good info. And to think, I've been doing it right since the 60s.:)

Foto Joe
March 15, 2011, 03:43 PM
The thing that I'd like to make a point about regarding this issue is: With due caution chain-fires are not something that the average shooter will EVER experience. Properly sized round balls, proper loading procedures and the correct caps for "your" nipples will mean that you probably will never get to experience a multiple ignition.

I think what is more overlooked and is a bigger safety issue is a possible hang-fire, especially in long guns but it can happen on any percussion firearm and unsafe handling of the weapon can lead to very bad outcomes.

ClemBert
March 15, 2011, 04:37 PM
Everyone should read the article I am attaching below. It is one of many tests that have been conducted trying to determine how chainfires occur and how much of a danger do they pose.

That was a good article to read. Thanks for posting it. However, the article did nothing to address the OP's question regarding chain fire which he refers to as "multiple flash overs". The article concerns the safe capping of percussion revolvers.

To the OP the prevention of chain fires is two fold. Sealing the muzzle of the chambers properly and sealing the nipples properly. Sealing the chambers requires that the chambers be uniform in their "roundness" and the use of a soft lead projectiles, also uniform and without defects, that are larger than the chamber diameters. Some folks will use lubricated wads, fillers, and/or "grease" sealants as an added preventative measure. The selection and use of such materials is a long debated topic on this forum and others.

If you take the steps, as highlighted above in blue, you will not get a chain fire initiated from the chamber muzzles. About right now there are a few red faced members :fire: who are going to want to debate me on that note.

With regard to chain fires initiated from the rear of the chambers AKA the nipples...again, this will require nipples uniform in their roundness without defects. Reasonably tight fitting caps that do NOT get jarred loose when firing will be a key feature in preventing chain fires initiated from the nipple area.

Now that I've had my say....let the religious debate begin! :cuss:

p.s. I just noticed that this post is post #666 for me. Excuse me while I go drink some holy water...or beer...

junkman_01
March 15, 2011, 04:42 PM
I think every C&B revolver shooter should experience a chain fire, just to see what it is like. Load three adjacent chambers but only cap the middle one and fire it. More than likely, all three will go. One down the barrel and one out each side. Keep your off hand away from the gun (fire one handed) and everything should be fine. Only then can you appreciate a chain fire and take what ever steps are necessary to avoid them in the future. :evil:

arcticap
March 15, 2011, 05:05 PM
I think every C&B revolver shooter should experience a chain fire, just to see what it is like. Load three adjacent chambers but only cap the middle one and fire it. More than likely, all three will go. One down the barrel and one out each side. Keep your off hand away from the gun (fire one handed) and everything should be fine. Only then can you appreciate a chain fire and take what ever steps are necessary to avoid them in the future.

Take a look at the burns that Ginormous received when his dragoon double fired. The cylinders weren't adjacent and some folks seriously considered wearing shooting gloves as a precaution after that.

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/Ginormous_pics/DSCF1138.jpg

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/Ginormous_pics/DSCF1143.jpg

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/Ginormous_pics/DSCF1106.jpg

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww19/Ginormous_pics/DSCF1107.jpg

From the thread below named :mad: Chainfire, yay.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=445634&highlight=burn

junkman_01
March 15, 2011, 05:10 PM
My statement still stands. I've had several chain fires in my long life and none were harmful to me, the bystanders, or the guns!

BTW, he shouldn't have had his off hand near the gun. Those burns don't appear to have happened to his shooting hand.

arcticap
March 15, 2011, 05:20 PM
BTW, he shouldn't have had his off hand near the gun. Those burns don't appear to have happened to his shooting hand.

As mentioned the chambers weren't adjacent and that was his shooting hand:



Thanks ClemBert. Yes it did, VERY abruptly.

Okay, that's +1 for Dr. Law for guessing correctly my left handedness. But I am detracting -2 for his blasphemy and defamation of those of use who know for a fact that the sinister side is the only right* side to shoot from. Those of the dexter persuasion are unfortunately handicapped, and really do deserve our pity and understanding.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5550413&postcount=10

junkman_01
March 15, 2011, 05:22 PM
I don't believe the story. He must have done something seriously wrong.

GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
March 15, 2011, 05:26 PM
Busy, If you will be firing the pre-formed .22 balls that they send with the revolver (50 I think. Used to be anyway) and you seat them properly with the tool they also send, you will NOT have to worry about chainfires. (flash overs). Period. Forget about them. They ain't gonna happen. Period....

BHP FAN
March 15, 2011, 05:47 PM
I've had three chain fires in almost forty years of shooting.One was due to using the wrong caps , pinched to make them fit, and two were due to ill fitting, home cast balls, with no lube, one in my '51 Navy sheriff's model, and one in my brother's full length '51.with my '51 Navy Sherrif's model, I actually saw the flashover from cap to cap. Blew the wedge, I know not where, and left me with the barrel betwixt the toes of my cowboy boots holding the grip and cylinder in my hand and wearing a foolish expression of wonder on my seventeen year old [this was a long time ago] face...The cure is to use a Q-tip and smear a little Bore Butter over top of the bullet, and use Remington # 10 or CCI #11 caps, and the stock bullets.None of the components are expensive, or very hard to find, so there's no reason not to use the right stuff. Also, I think after you try the T7, 3F, you'll see there's no need to bend your frame or cylinder pin useing smokeless powder.Plenty barky, believe me.

arcticap
March 15, 2011, 05:52 PM
I don't believe the story. He must have done something seriously wrong.

Loads were warmish, with 35 gr Swiss BP, RWS 1075 caps seated (or so I thought) with a wooden dowel, lube pill over powder and under a .457 144 gr Speer swagged round ball.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=445634&highlight=burn


It's totally plausible that the 1075 RWS cap simply fell off due to recoil as Ginormous claimed in his 1st post of the thread. It wasn't even a maximum load which not only shows how easily a chainfire can be initiated, but what kind of burns can result from loading as little as 35 grains of powder in a chamber sized to hold 50 grains.

Busyhands94
March 15, 2011, 06:17 PM
charcoal i saw a picture online of the bullets, and they are actually formed in a way where they have a fatter part in the middle. you have a good point there, i think just using the bullets will be fine. if you look at the bullets they have quite a bit of lead around them http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231241 although i might coat them in grease or put Crisco or some kind of grease over the chambers just in case, you can never be too careful with guns. i am getting some H&N rabbit magnums soon, they are like a lead cylinder and are really heavy. i think they might seal well due to having more lead contacting the walls of the chamber.

makos_goods
March 15, 2011, 07:14 PM
That was a good article to read. Thanks for posting it. However, the article did nothing to address the OP's question regarding chain fire which he refers to as "multiple flash overs". The article concerns the safe capping of percussion revolvers.

To the OP the prevention of chain fires is two fold. Sealing the muzzle of the chambers properly and sealing the nipples properly. Sealing the chambers requires that the chambers be uniform in their "roundness" and the use of a soft lead projectiles, also uniform and without defects, that are larger than the chamber diameters. Some folks will use lubricated wads, fillers, and/or "grease" sealants as an added preventative measure. The selection and use of such materials is a long debated topic on this forum and others.

If you take the steps, as highlighted above in blue, you will not get a chain fire initiated from the chamber muzzles. About right now there are a few red faced members :fire: who are going to want to debate me on that note.

With regard to chain fires initiated from the rear of the chambers AKA the nipples...again, this will require nipples uniform in their roundness without defects. Reasonably tight fitting caps that do get jarred loose when firing will be a key feature in preventing chain fires initiated from the nipple area.

Now that I've had my say....let the religious debate begin! :cuss:

p.s. I just noticed that this post is post #666 for me. Excuse me while I go drink some holy water...or beer...
Clembert,
I'll say it again:
It is one of many tests that have been conducted trying to determine how chainfires occur and how much of a danger do they pose. Maybe I should have said it is one of a series instead of one of many. It is the only one that looked at the danger from the projectiles that has been properly documented that I know of. There had been a bunch of conjecture, rumors, stories suppositions, opinions and even anecdotal "evidence" from shooters saying that multiple balls went out and hit the target or backstop.

Rowdy was adamant that it wouldn't be dangerous (and he should know), Scout decided to put an end to it by conducting a well documented test. That is what my post was specifically about. It's not about after the fact accounts, eyewitness or not; because we have learned how unreliable they can be even if the witness testifies to the best of their ability.

I am out of town right now so I don't have access to my files. There have been other tests where they set off as many as 5 chambers at once. The one test shot at carboard as well and advised that you would have 5 deadly projectiles. Scout machined the cylinder ring and recorded the first chronographed velocities from a cylinder alone that I am aware of.

Even in the situation above you have to be careful about what you report, you can only make claims that are supportable. The test that showed the 5 holes on the target "looked" VERY bad. But they really had no idea how powerful the hits were. Some of us were suspicious because the holes looked torn instead of the round grey/black tinged holes you normally see from a ball penetrating the cardboard at normal velocities.

The 5 shot test used model rocket motor igniters on all five chambers. They left the 6th at the rammer out fearing they would destroy the pistol. That was a projectile test. Then there have been actual chainfire tests. The simplest have been on machine rests or anchored with the chamber under the hammer capped and the others uncapped. It is frightening how often they will go off in that configuration.

We chose to test front chainfires and did two types of tests. One with the cylinder on the pistol and one with the cylinder dismounted. We could not get a chain fire at all on the pistol. We tried everything from the infamous casting wrinkle to literally cutting grooves on the sides of balls allowing a path. No lube, just intentionally loose fitting balls and openings cut into them. We even dribbled powder all over the fronts of the chambers to simulate bad loading hygiene.

We got tired of loading on the Ransom Rest and decided to just try to set multiple chambers off with the cylinder off and pointing up at an angle to allow a lot of powder on the chamber fronts ( mean a LOT). We used both nichrome igniters and cannon fuse. The cannon fuse was bad about setting off any loose powder and the front even flash off once before the one chamber it was supposed to ignite from the rear. We then switch to nichrome motor igniters until we ran out.

We were finally able to get flash overs, but only after carving deep grooves and in one case a drilled hole. Then we added 4F flintlock priming powder down the holes.

The problem with this account I am giving is that I am all over the page trying to recount 3 different tests. Two weren't ours, and ours had a matrix of different conditions I am not doing justice to in this post.

Can you get flash overs from the front? Yep, but be prepared to do things no self respecting cap gun shooter would ever do.

If you get bored before I have a chance to dig the info up, try it yourself. See if you can get one to go off from the front. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that we put 12-28 set screws in five of the cone holes to assure there was no chance of igniting from the rear. They aren't easy to buy so we took some 1/4-28 allthread stock and turned the O.D. down to .215 then threaded it with a die I keep to freshen cone threads ( have taps as well) then cut them to set screw length and slotted them. Or you can do what another experimenter did and filled some old cones with JB Weld (DOOOOOHHHHHH!!!! I hate it when I miss the obvious)

~Mako

ClemBert
March 15, 2011, 07:36 PM
I believe that none other than our own Hawg Haggen has a cap-n-ball revolver where it is claimed that it will reliably chain fire when there isn't lube over the balls. Maybe he'll chime in to give us the details. Either that or he'll point out that I must have inhaled too many smoke fumes and imagined the whole thing.

robhof
March 15, 2011, 08:42 PM
As a long time owner of a Super Companion and having gone through at least 3 bags of the NAA bullets plus assorted homemade 22 cal lead slugs, I can honestly say that I've never had a problem and doubt it's possible if you follow basic precaution. The nipples are in isolated wells, so cap flashover is extremely difficult, and the NAA slugs are a tight fit, my copies are made of soft lead and cast at .224, they are also a tight fit and I just lube them with liquid Alox. The factory slugs are more accurate but my homebrews are cheaper. I just put 2 slabs of scrap aluminum together and drilled a series of .224 holes to a depth just shy of the factory slug, crude but functional.

Busyhands94
March 15, 2011, 09:51 PM
cool! i was actually thinking about making a bullet mold for mine, i already have made a .17 caliber mold for my Remington rider pistol, so i figure .22 caliber conicals should be a bit easier to cast due to the lead flowing into the mold easier.

Oyeboten
March 15, 2011, 10:13 PM
In the early 1960s my Dad sent off for an Italian reproduciton Colt 1851 Navy, and, we got into shooting it.

We had chain fires or multiple-discharges or whatever one is to call them, and, we heard about using 'Crisco' to seal the ends of the loaded Chambers, and, this cut down on it but did not elminate it.

Horrible, messy, yucky 'Crisco-&-BP' residu slime on everything, filthy hands and arms and faces, yuck every which way.


Fast forward 40 odd years, maybe almost fifty, anyway, I get back into Black Powder Cap & Ball, and, I do a little reading and thinking.

I made sure I had right size well fitting Caps, and, Balls or Boolits/Bullets which fit tightly into the Bores of the Cylinder.

I have not had one chain fire or multiple discharge in the six or eight hundred rounds I have fired so far.

I also elected form the start to make and use my own thin Bee's Wax based Lube Wafers, for keeping the Bore well lubed.

I can be out firing then all day, and, to look at me, my Hands, Arms, Face, Shirt and so on, you would never know it.

No mess in any way.



I believe the problem which my Dad and I were having way back when, were Caps that were too large ( permitting flash to enter around the Caps ), and, too small a diameter of Lead Balls which were too small and which were not shaving a 'ring' off when being Loaded, which was admitting flash to enter around the Ball of whichever loaded Chamber it happened to do so with.

BHP FAN
March 16, 2011, 01:09 AM
I think Oyeboten nailed it, but I'd add that I think that erosion, or reaming out the cones, and eliminating the venturi effect can cause it as well.

makos_goods
March 16, 2011, 02:03 AM
I think Oyeboten nailed it, but I'd add that I think that erosion, or reaming out the cones, and eliminating the venturi effect can cause it as well.
Let me put this delicately... HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?????????????

What are you talkn' about? Reaming, erosion, venturi effect?

Mystified,
Mako

BHP FAN
March 16, 2011, 04:13 AM
Some dufi think that the nipples are plugged, the first time they clean a BP revolver not realizing that the inside dimensions and shape are on purpose working like a venturi, or, more simply as a ''shaped charge'' [large hole narrows to a very small hole to direct the explosion of the cap into the chamber, and thus the powder charge] and the first thing a newbie does when he looks into the cylinder he's cleaning, is say to himself ''those hole sure do seem small down in there, I bet I'd get better ignition if I used my dad's drill, and opened those up a little''....and hilarity ensues.

Eddie Carter
March 16, 2011, 05:24 AM
Ok guys, this is my first post but I've had extensive experience with cap and ball revolvers, although I've never shot one as small as .22 cal. My Ruger "Old Army" worked extremely well,(accurate and safe) with a charge of between 10 and 20 grains of fffg black powder. .451 round balls were shaved as the were pressed into the cylinder, but loading went like this: powder was volume measured with a volume measure and went in first, then 5to 10 grains of corn meal as a buffer, then the bullet is pressed in and topped off with "Bore Butter". Caps aren't put on the niples till you are on the shooting line and the line is HOT. Never once had a flashover and that pistol is a tack driver.

45-70 Ranger
March 16, 2011, 10:55 AM
Boy howdy! What a defecation storm this turned out to be! I'm just gonna sit back now and watch more of that stuff hit the fan!! Sure glad I'm outta range!

Wade

junkman_01
March 16, 2011, 11:46 AM
Boy howdy! What a defecation storm this turned out to be!
Always does, always will.

ofitg
March 16, 2011, 11:52 AM
I am out of town right now so I don't have access to my files. There have been other tests where they set off as many as 5 chambers at once. The one test shot at carboard as well and advised that you would have 5 deadly projectiles. Scout machined the cylinder ring and recorded the first chronographed velocities from a cylinder alone that I am aware of.



makos_goods, thanks for posting the article - I agree, the test was very well done.

I hope that you will be able to post the other tests in the near future. What you have told us of your recollections has been very informative.

Thanks again!

makos_goods
March 16, 2011, 12:49 PM
Ok guys, this is my first post but I've had extensive experience with cap and ball revolvers, although I've never shot one as small as .22 cal. My Ruger "Old Army" worked extremely well,(accurate and safe) with a charge of between 10 and 20 grains of fffg black powder. .451 round balls were shaved as the were pressed into the cylinder, but loading went like this: powder was volume measured with a volume measure and went in first, then 5to 10 grains of corn meal as a buffer, then the bullet is pressed in and topped off with "Bore Butter". Caps aren't put on the niples till you are on the shooting line and the line is HOT. Never once had a flashover and that pistol is a tack driver.
Eddie,
You must be mis-remembering the ball diameter and the charge. Rugers take a .457 ball. A .451 will just drop in, no shaving. It has the largest chambers of all of the "current" percussion pistols out there. Ubertis, Piettas, ASMs, Palmettos, Euroarms, Centaurs, etc. will take either a .451 or a .454 ball.


Your powder charges are a bit light as well. I don't think I can shoot a charge of only 10grains of BP with my Rugers.

Welcome to the melee...

Mako

Fingers McGee
March 16, 2011, 01:13 PM
:what: Pile on - Pile on.

I have shot probably 12,000 to 15,00 rounds through my C&Bs in the past 9 or 10 years in SASS competition. I've had ONE chainfire in all that time on a chamber that I failed to cap.

FM

Hey Mako :D How's it going? A belated welcome to the forum :o

Fingers

ClemBert
March 16, 2011, 01:22 PM
LOL, that is what I meant by:

Now that I've had my say....let the religious debate begin! :cuss:

I should know better by now than to waste my electrons in yet another "chain fire" thread. :banghead:

junkman_01
March 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
Clembert,

You are absolutely right. Why waste the time. :banghead:
Fingers thread above kind of sums it up.

Busyhands94
March 16, 2011, 03:00 PM
well that is good to hear! :) so basically what i need is a tight fitting projectile, a normal powder charge, and well-fitting caps. i found in a youtube video that the pistol will be fine in the event of a chain fire, for the firing chambers to the left and right are not lined up with the frame, they are pointing outside of it. i figure it should be fine. that makes me feel a little less worried about chain fires, for the worst that could happen is i could get a bad startle and have to reload the cylinder. no lead shavings to be sprayed into my hand if i hold it right, and the velocity of a bullet fired straight form the cylinder would be minimal.

Oyeboten
March 16, 2011, 05:59 PM
Seems to me, in summary, if we approach the issue of multiple simultaneous discharge in a rational over view of the discoverable factors responsible for it...we then find not only the cure, but, we find what ought to be basic good practice -

Right fitting Caps for the Nipples

Right fitting Projectiles for the Cylinder Bores

Correctly configured interior passageways of the Nipples ( ie, Nipples whose interior passageway is intact as designed, and, which have not been naively reamed or drilled out )

Correctly configured ( concentric, and not widening as the go 'in', even if they may very slightly narrow as they go 'in' ) Cylinder Bores

Lubes and fillers are properly about other issues, than that they are primarily an optimal means of preventing simultaneous dishcharge from flash overs getting into to Loaded Chambers.



The flash will either enter around a poor fitting Ball or other projectile, or, it will enter around a poor fitting Cap.

Right fitting Cap, poor fitting Ball, then "yes" globbing Bore Butter into the end of the Cylinder Chamber or using 'filler' between Powder and Ball/Bullet/Boolit, or both, ought to stop the problem of simultaneous discharge, but, would not do so ideally.

Right fitting projectile, poor fitting Caps, then "yes", some sort of flash guard around the Caps, ought to prevent the flash from getting in to neighboring Caps.

Poor fitting Projectile, and poor fitting Caps, then "yes", Bore Butter gooped in to the end of the Cylinder Bores, or, 'filler', or both, and, some sort of flash-entry preventer applied to poor fitting Caps, ought to solve the problem of flash-overs getting in, but, do not solve it ideally.

makos_goods
March 16, 2011, 06:09 PM
:what: Pile on - Pile on.

I have shot probably 12,000 to 15,00 rounds through my C&Bs in the past 9 or 10 years in SASS competition. I've had ONE chainfire in all that time on a chamber that I failed to cap.

FM

Hey Mako :D How's it going? A belated welcome to the forum :o

Fingers
Hey Fingers,
Haaaaaaa!! It is definitely interesting. I have haunted it on and off over the years especially when someone posted a link to something cool over here, but I never posted or signed up with my Cowboy alias.

Uhhhh, and I thought the other forums we are on are opinionated, they appear relatively tame and congruous now.

I have to give you a +1 on your comment about chainfires. I haven't had one in at least seven years and that was one without a cap as well.

It was my fault and I probably didn't (or couldn't) seat it correctly, I saw it fall off as I cocked for my first shot. It was the "last" chamber and as it advanced to the capping opening it just fell free. It probably wasn't seated "on" the cone at all and was just carried around until it got to the opening. I saw it fall and actually looked at the cap on the cone to make sure it was there and began shooting. Being the last it almost waited to the end but with the 3rd shot it went as well.

I was shooting Frontiersman class in those days and it was my second pistol so I just grounded it on the stage prop bar and moved on to the rifle. I knew right away what had happened but even with that knowledge I forgot which shot I was on. Losing track I figured it was the one next to the barrel until I went to the unloading table. The 4th chamber was still capped and ready to fire. I only had two misses on the stage, if I was really sharp I might have figured it out, but with trying to remember which targets I shot and the double I was ready to just put the pistol down and move on.

I know it was 2003 because after that I literally put Treso cones on every pair of anything I shot regularly. That set didn't have Treso cones.

I think pinched caps and poorly fit caps to cones are the major contributor to chainfires. They fall off or they allow a gas path because of the crease or gap sometimes created by the pinching. Today I wouldn't repeat what I did seven years ago if I saw a cap drop. I have a capper in my cap pouch and I would take the time to cap it on the clock just like we have to do with a one shot reload on the clock instead of risking a chainfire.

~Mako

makos_goods
March 16, 2011, 06:15 PM
LOL, that is what I meant by:

Now that I've had my say....let the religious debate begin! :cuss:

I should know better by now than to waste my electrons in yet another "chain fire" thread. :banghead:

Clembert,

You are absolutely right. Why waste the time. :banghead:
Fingers thread above kind of sums it up.

Yep, Ill now recall to the forum my original post which was the first answer to Busyhands original post:


But after having said that I'm sure there will be several answers to even this thread with more conjecture and anecdote instead of proof. Firearms in general are the hotbed of wives' tales and BP shooting is the deepest recess of that hot bed. Too many years of bad information being foisted on us by uninformed gun magazine writers, novelist and unsupported word of mouth have gotten us to this point. That along with the common feeling of empowerment in thinking opinion is as valid as data and experience supported with documentation have probably doomed us to never having consensus based on evidence...
~Mako

SIGHHHHHHH...

Busyhands94
March 16, 2011, 09:00 PM
i am planning someday to get a cattleman's carbine, however i am worried about chain fires in that thing, is there a certain way to hold it that puts your hand away from the front of the cylinder? i can't shoot a rifle ACCURATELY without holding the forearm.

BHP FAN
March 16, 2011, 10:18 PM
Wear wrap around shooting glasses with that thing. My brother dug a half moon of lead out from under my right eye with a leatherman tool the last time I ever shot mine...right before I sold it.

robhof
March 16, 2011, 10:52 PM
On the carbine, you keep both hands behind the cylinder gap. The grip usually is a variation of resting the shooting hand on the holding hand. so both are securely behind the fire and potential projectile zone.

GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
March 16, 2011, 11:15 PM
Me again with my 2 cents worth..I love the Uberti Cattleman's Carbine. Own 3 of them and have had extensive work done on all 3.. 2 of them have never been loaded or fired since the testing the gunsmith had to put them through. But God know's I have certainly used the one quite frequently. I have never had a problem with mine, either mechanical or with any type of dangerous blow back of any kind. The only glasses I ever wear with any of my firearms are my regular prescription spectacles. The only reason I wear them is because the wind blow's hard in Wyoming and I can't wear my soft contact lenses because of the sand in the summer and the snow and ice in the winter...Now Busy, let's say you're right handed. Use your right hand to pull and hold the carbine into your right shoulder. Then take your left hand and reach across your body and below the carbine and sort of grab and hold your right shoulder. The carbine will rest in the crook of your left arm and will be as steady as a rock..That carbine is also real good for one handed snap shots after you get a little skill with it. You can also hold it out in ya'll's 'classic shooting position' as with one of your revolver's at the range....Not telling you not to wear safety glasses. That's up to you. Man ought to do what he think's he ought to do.

Busyhands94
March 17, 2011, 01:18 AM
is it any good for hunting? from what i have heard the thing is real accurate, i figure 44 would be a bit overkill for small game like rabbits and turkey, however with a good head shot should not be a problem due to the fact i don't really find the head to be where the good meat is at.

GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
March 17, 2011, 09:14 AM
With all things being equal including you; it's accurate....

black_powder_Rob
March 17, 2011, 11:46 AM
I would venture to say (if it is legal in your state) it should be good enough for small deer hunting as well.

on O.P's post I wonder if bp subs would affect the chance of a flash over?

Noz
March 17, 2011, 12:08 PM
I have had 4 "chain fires" each was 2 round fired at the same time. All were adjacent and the second chamber firing was always the one to the left of the fired chamber. No damage to me or gun with any of them.
After much debate and learning, the reason determined was that the alloy I was using to pour the balls was too hard and the balls were not swaging properly into the chambers.
Changed to pure lead and problem disappeared.

Busyhands94
March 17, 2011, 02:30 PM
black powder rob of course BP subs will make a difference, they are chemically different from black powder and probably burn different. plus there is the different variables such as what fuel they used, what was the oxidizer, etc.

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