Inheriting guns from dad


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Geckgo
March 16, 2011, 03:18 AM
Hi all,

My dad passed today, and I toted my but off the rig and all the way to Illinois as fast as I could. There are a lot of things that we are going through right now, but one question that came up is dad's gun collection. A 20ga break action, a Mossy 500, a ruger .22 bolt, and an LCP .380. I've been digging around here for a little bit and can't seem to find exactly what I'm looking for, plus I'm tired and emotional right now, so maybe yall can help me out.


I'll try to list the important details as I get/know them, here's what I got so far...

I mentioned the guns to be specific, and also I live in Louisiana. The LCP is a handgun, but ownership in IL is no different from any other firearm I think.

My brother, sister and mother have no use for the guns, and it was kind of decided that I'm the gun guy and I should get them out of the house.

We have not found a will yet, and are not sure if the old man had written one. We are pretty sure it did, but we need to find it, and who he left stuff too. Or if it all goes to my mother, can she "refuse reciept" and then just pass it down the line till it gets to me? I read this on another post but not sure about it.


long story short, do I need to UPS the guns to my FFL and pay the transfer fee on them, or is there a way that I can just drive them back to LA with me, etc. etc. Just trying to see what the proper way of taking care of this is.

,thanks

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Bubbles
March 16, 2011, 08:46 AM
I am sorry for your loss.

If your dad died intestate (without a will) the state's laws cover who gets what. It looks like in IL that your mom would get half of your dad's estate, with the other half divided evenly between you and any siblings. So, if no other relative wants the guns then they can certainly be given to you.

Federal law permits you, as a lawful heir, to travel to your dad's residence, retrieve the firearms, and take them home. The executor (probably your mom) is not permitted to ship them to you. I'm not familiar with Louisiana state laws regarding firearm registration or private transfers, or even if there are any. I think you do need to let the state of IL know what happened to the guns since they'll be listed on your dad's FOID.

I would strongly suggest that your mom get an attorney to help her through this process. My mom died intestate, I ended up as an exector, and the attorney's help was invaluable in getting things settled.

rogertc1
March 16, 2011, 08:59 AM
If your mom does not have a FOID she can't own the guns in IL. She could possible get arrested. Make sure she has one.

Geckgo
March 16, 2011, 10:44 AM
rogertc1, I didn't even consider that yesterday, so I'll prolly Have to take them. My brother's wife won't abide guns and my sister doesn't want them either. We may be talking to a lawer today, who knows. Thanks guys for the info.

NavyLCDR
March 16, 2011, 12:01 PM
Very sorry for your loss.

Illinois state law gives you 60 days to sort it out:

65/12. Transfer of firearms upon death of
owner or incident to legal proceedings The
provisions of this Act shall not apply to the
passing or transfer of any firearm or firearm
ammunition upon the death of the owner thereof
to his heir or legatee or to the passing or transfer
of any firearm or firearm ammunition incident to
any legal proceeding or action until 60 days after
such passing or transfer.

Once it is determined that you are the legal heir of the firearms, you have a three choices to get them to Louisiana. You and only you can ship them to yourself from Illinois to Louisiana. They can be sent to you c/o another person, and that other person should not open the package, but only hold it for you, but you must be the person doing the shipping.

Anyone can ship the firearms to a Louisiana FFL for transfer to you. You will have to fill out the form 4473 and pass the NICS background check.

You can retrieve the guns yourself, and drive them back to Louisiana, or transport them in checked baggage on aircraft or AMTRAK. 18 USC 922 (a)(3) allows this:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State

Once you possess the firearms in Louisiana, there is nothing, according to Louisiana state that that you are required to do.

Without an FOID in Illinois, the guns should be kept unloaded, in locked cases, and ammo separate from the guns.

brickeyee
March 16, 2011, 07:00 PM
The executor can transfer the guns directly to an heir, no FFL required.

If he died intestate your om will likely need to petition to be named executor.

Transfers on death are on of the few exceptions to the normal federal interstate transfer rules.

NavyLCDR
March 16, 2011, 07:50 PM
The executor can transfer the guns directly to an heir, no FFL required.

If he died intestate your om will likely need to petition to be named executor.

Transfers on death are on of the few exceptions to the normal federal interstate transfer rules.

The way I understand intestate succession is that the state law or court IS the executor. The state law or court decides who gets what property. So, if state law said that without a will, mom is the inheritor of the estate... then mom is the inheritor of the guns and she is the only person who would fall under the inheritance exceptions in state and federal firearms laws. In that case, she would have to transfer the firearms to the son via an FFL because the son is not a resident of the same state as mom. In that case, if the whole procedure was going to take more than 60 days, mom would have to get an Illinois FOID.

If state law or the court said that the estate could be divided between the mom and children, then the guns could be directly inherited by the son with no need for an FFL or Illinois FOID.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/i063.htm

INTESTATE SUCCESSION
refers to the law of the State providing for the inheritance of property from a person who dies without leaving a will. Thus, to carry out a "intestate succession" simply means to transfer something after the owner has died and in accordance with the State law of intestate succession.

HankB
March 16, 2011, 11:07 PM
Sorry for your loss.

Unless there is squabbling among the widow and children, I see no reason to involve lawyers/the State in divvying up property that isn't titled (such as house, car, etc.) or subject to Federal restrictions (machine gun, SBR, etc., probably not an issue in Illinois.)

Put firearms & ammo in trunk. Drive home. Enjoy them and remember your Dad when you use them.

NavyLCDR
March 16, 2011, 11:32 PM
^^^^^ that's what I would do.

gbran
March 17, 2011, 12:18 AM
If your mom does not have a FOID she can't own the guns in IL.

Geez, even us poor serfs in CA don't have it this bad. What a bunch of inflexible crap.......... a loved one dies and the other is an instant criminal.

NavyLCDR
March 17, 2011, 01:12 AM
a loved one dies and the other is an instant criminal.

No. There is a 60 day grace period in Illinois before the surviving party becomes a criminal.

splithoof
March 17, 2011, 01:27 AM
Unloaded, locked in trunk, drive home. Second trip comes any ammo. Keep the filthy governmental political mitts out of your familys affairs. They have no need to know, so why create a paper blizzard?
We pray for your circumstance, and wish you all the best.

webfox
March 17, 2011, 07:33 AM
I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

The executor of your father's estate (probably your mother?) will have to transfer ownership to you through an FFL. For the pistol, you will probably need a permit in your own county before it can be transferred to you.

That's all.

As far as traveling from state to state, they should be locked in the trunk, unloaded, and possibly disassembled, depending on the state you are passing through.



Take care.

LukeTheDrifter
March 17, 2011, 09:15 AM
Have a safe trip!! I'm really sorry about your loss, Geckgo!! My prayers are with you and your family!!

In times like this, these words give me immense comfort: "Don't worry about anything, but in all your prayers ask God for what you need, always asking him with a thankful heart. And God's peace, which is far beyond human understanding, will keep your hearts and minds safe in union with Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:6-7.

Cop Bob
March 17, 2011, 09:31 AM
Sorry for your loss... Losing Dad's are tough...

I am assuming that an FOID is a Firearms Owner I.D. card or license... I really don't see where this is much of an issue. Louisiana does not require them and they won't check.

If the other family members agree to it, knock out a written agreement between them, each signing (so that a Family squabble later does not interfere, experience and observations tell me that it is an emotional time, and people change, especially when money and estates are involved..)

Then take them back to Louisiana. If everyone is in agreement, I would not even list them in the Estate paperwork filed in IL.. What IL don't know won't hurt them. But all Family members need to agree and sign off..

It is mind over matter, If they (family) don't mind, it don't matter...

hermannr
March 18, 2011, 07:35 PM
I agree with Cop Bob: Family agrees, (in writing) empty, and in your trunk, federal interstate transportation rules apply.. Part of an inheritance you do not need an FFL. Also agree, no need to even list it as an asset of the diseased. LA doesn't care, you can care less what IL thinks, you are not in their juristiction. (just get them out of state within that 60 day grace period)

I inherited an old 32 S&W from my mom's uncle in Sweden a few years ago...that was a bit different... that pistol is still in Sweden.

Top_Gunn
March 18, 2011, 08:21 PM
The executor of your father's estate (probably your mother?) will have to transfer ownership to you through an FFL. For the pistol, you will probably need a permit in your own county before it can be transferred to you.

That's all.

As far as traveling from state to state, they should be locked in the trunk, unloaded, and possibly disassembled, depending on the state you are passing through.

I am sometimes amazed at the willingness of people to post answers even though they have no idea what they are talking about.

1. If you can qualify as an heir of the guns (unclear on these facts, but probably you can), the executor, who will be appointed by the court, can transfer them to you without going through an FFL, as several previous posters have noted. If there's no will, you will be an heir, and part of your share of the assets can be the guns.

2. Whether you need some sort of permit to receive them is a question of La. law. I'd be very surprised if you did, but I don't know for sure.

3. You certainly don't have to disassemble your guns (let alone "possibly disassemble" them ???) for interstate transportation if they are unloaded and in your trunk. This is governed by federal, not state, law. In fact, if it's in the trunk the case doesn't have to be locked, but it would be a good idea to lock it anyway because of an odd federal law about school zones.

Geckgo
March 19, 2011, 09:59 AM
The real pain in the but about all of this is that none of us kids want anything, we just want our dad back. We have decided to turn one room of mom's house into sort of a "jam session" room and hang all the guitars up and move all of the music equipment into that room and things like that. My siblings basically told me, if she wants to you can take her out and get her a FOID and teach her how to shoot, etc etc, or just get the guns out of the house as she has never had any desire to touch them anyways. As much as I would love teaching my mom to defend her household against the very unlikely event of a break-in in that neighborhood (like 20 people that know eachother all out in the middle of nowhere), both my brother and I know the woman's mind and that she is not up to it and she has no desire to even mess with guns.

We want to keep most of the "estate" in her name and with all of us being near broke after the funeral, don't want to get wrapped up with lawers and such. As far as I have read, here and elsewhere, in Illinois the spouse and surviving children are all heirs entitled to various portions of the estate as far as the law is concerned. If anyone would ask in LA where I got the guns I could just say I inherited from my father with no ill effect, and if that were my share of the "estate" then I don't see any illegalities. Maybe people out there with more experience in this arena can tell me, but do we NEED to go down to the courthouse and name my mother "executer" and such, or can we just decide among ourselfs (Mom, me, and siblings) who gets what and do it?

Top_Gunn
March 19, 2011, 12:48 PM
What you propose is the way most non-rich people handle inheritances. I'm not knowledgeable about Illinois inheritance laws, so I can't give you an authoritative opinion. But I suppose I can say that I don't know of any reason why what you propose would violate any law or make you something other than an heir, if there's no will and if your dad didn't have creditors. It might be best to get your mother appointed as the estate's administrator if you could do it without a lot of expense. Unless there are major creditors or some sort of dispute, it really shouldn't cost much to do that. If there's a law school near where you are, their legal aid clinic might be able to help.

(My previous post used the term "executor"; it should have been "administrator" in the absence of a will. Not that it matters a lot. Or at all.)

hermannr
March 19, 2011, 01:54 PM
When My FIL (he as only 53) died intestate, the state law was 1/2 to the widow, 1/2 to any and all children equally. What my wife and her brothers and sister did was (yes they used a lawyer, I think it cost them $200) write up a paper disclaiming any and all of their share of the inheritance. Funtionally, my wife's mom legally got everything that way.

It doesn't matter on very many things, but the car(s) and the real estate, it is very important to do it correctly. Call around and find a sympathetc lawyer. (yes they do exist) It will probably take his legal assistant 15 minutes to do it correctly. OK?

Geckgo
March 19, 2011, 02:07 PM
I can stomach 200 bucks, maybe monday my brother and I will go shopping lawyers, just to see what they say.

btg3
March 20, 2011, 10:36 AM
Thus far there seems to be 2 main questions:

1. How best to handle your dad's modest intestate estate?
2. How to legally transfer your dad's firearms to you.

A lawyer will greatly help the process in terms of doing the rights things efficiently. State laws vary, but for my dad we had to post a public notice in the newspaper for 30days that essentially says that after the estate is settled, no creditors can may a claim against the estate. This was to protect the estate and the heirs from any nonsense.

You may also want to consider having a simple will made for your mother. You and your siblings should also have one in your repspective states of residence.

As other have stated, you may take possession of the firearms without FFL transfer, subject to law in your home state of LA. Just remove them from IL within 60 day and observe interstate transport laws (http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59) on the trip home.

It sounds like you have good family that is working together, which is a huge blessing.

jkingrph
March 20, 2011, 12:48 PM
Thus far there seems to be 2 main questions:

1. How best to handle your dad's modest intestate estate?
2. How to legally transfer your dad's firearms to you.

A lawyer will greatly help the process in terms of doing the rights things efficiently. State laws vary, but for my dad we had to post a public notice in the newspaper for 30days that essentially says that after the estate is settled, no creditors can may a claim against the estate. This was to protect the estate and the heirs from any nonsense.

You may also want to consider having a simple will made for your mother. You and your siblings should also have one in your repspective states of residence.

As other have stated, you may take possession of the firearms without FFL transfer, subject to law in your home state of LA. Just remove them from IL within 60 day and observe interstate transport laws (http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59) on the trip home.

It sounds like you have good family that is working together, which is a huge blessing.

Louisiana, with the exception of at least immediate post Katrina New Orleans, is probably one of the most gun friendly states.

Being a former La native, I would just pack them in the trunk and take them back home with me. Long guns you could mail to yourself, handguns, no per postal regulations. Just be sure your mother and siblings are in agreement.

If anything comes up about value of estate, just deduct their used value from your share of any inheritance.

dprice3844444
March 20, 2011, 04:20 PM
now set up a living tust for anything else like cars,house,retirement benefits etc.if she has to go to a nursing home under institutionalized medicare/medicaid,they will take everything.trust avoids all the pitfalls

btg3
March 20, 2011, 08:53 PM
Given a small estate, what advantage would a trust have compared to an adult child with Power of Attorney for the surviving parent? Even more important to consider is an Advance Directive for each member of the family.

brickeyee
March 22, 2011, 05:05 PM
The way I understand intestate succession is that the state law or court IS the executor. The state law or court decides who gets what property.

You do not understand the mechanism that gets everything done.


An heir (under the intestate rules) or other ‘interested party’ can petition the court to be named executor (a bond may be required).
The way I understand intestate succession is that the state law or court IS the executor. The state law or court decides who gets what property.

An heir (under the intestate rules) or other ‘interested party’ can petition the court to be named executor (a bond may be required).

They would then be responsible for carrying out the states intestate rules and dispersing the estate.
If no one applies, the court will appoint someone (often a local attorney) who then gets to bill the estate for their time.

They would then be responsible for carrying out the states intestate rules and dispersing the estate.

Sometimes it is as simple as dispersing the assets, getting a receipt to show they have been transferred, filling any tax forms required (federal, local, etc.) and then filing the paperwork to close the estate with the court.

The court is not about to do the paperwork required, but hires it out.



If no one applies, the court will appoint someone (often a local attorney) who then gets to bill the estate for their time.

Sometimes it is as simple as dispersing the assets, getting a receipt to show they have been transferred, filling any tax forms required (federal, local, etc.) and then filing the paperwork to close the estate with the court.

The court is not about to do the paperwork required, but hires it out.

I have had to deal with it in Virginia a couple times for friends that failed to update wills after moving to Virginia making them invalid (though for the most part the judges have always instructed me to try and follow them).

Geckgo
March 28, 2011, 02:08 PM
Settled finally. Since pretty much everything was split ownership between my mother and father, and the rest of the estate (i.e. the guns) was less than 10,000 dollars, then no special paperwork needed to be filed. We just got back from the attorney's office. The state police told him that we were good to go for transfer with a bill of sale, I told the attorney that it may be fine for them once it's out of their state, but that I would like whatever paperwork to specify direct inheritance, to cover the federal interstate stuff, and he said it was no problem,, The paperwork is exactly the same as a bill of sale, and nothing had to be filed, but below is how it was written up:

ESTATE TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP

Comes now [mom's name] of [address], the undersigned, being the spouse of [dad's name], [dad's address], who passed away on [date] in [county] County, Illinois; does transfer the following guns, as inheritance from [dad's name] to [me and my address]: Winchester model 37A 20 gauge break action, serial number [s/n]; Daisy model 2202 bolt action rifle, serial number [s/n]; and KelTec P3AT .380 automatic double action pistol, serial number [s/n].

This is a direct inheritance from [dad's name], deceased, to his son, [my name].

Dated this 28th day of March, 2011 at Trenton, Illinois.

_________________
[Mom's name], surviving spouse of [dad's name]

I, Geckgo, state that I am recieving my father's guns in Illinois for transportation to my home in Louisiana.

__________________
Geckgo



That's pretty much it, a lot like of bill of sale and didn't need to be filed with anyone. Hope this will help out if someone has this same issue in the future. You don't need a lawer to do this (obviously doesn't apply to cook county), you do it just like a bill of sale and use the words direct inheritance, and make sure that the negotiable parts of the estate (the stuff that was solely in dad's name) is less than 10k. Thanks everyone for the advice. The lawer charged 50 bucks to do the research and the paperwork.

Cop Bob
March 29, 2011, 12:31 PM
dprice3844444
Member


Join Date: February 26, 2011
Location: se fla
Posts: 58

now set up a living trust for anything else like cars,house,retirement benefits etc.if she has to go to a nursing home under institutionalized medicare/medicaid,they will take everything.trust avoids all the pitfalls



This may be the BEST advise I have heard yet.....

When the dust settles, I would look into this for yourself. In most states these trusts need to be in place for 1 to 3 years for the state to honor them.. so that it doesn't look like a last minute effort to cut the state out of Medicare restitution.

When My Parents passed, Texas was one of only three states that did not require nursing home expenses paid by the state to me reimbursed by the estate, the law in Texas changed the following year. I know that IL requires it, and I am not sure about LA, but in any cash strapped state, and LA surely falls into that area, they may have enacted such measures if they were not in place aready..

brickeyee
March 29, 2011, 03:33 PM
"now set up a living trust for anything else like cars,house,retirement benefits etc.if she has to go to a nursing home under institutionalized medicare/medicaid,they will take everything.trust avoids all the pitfalls"

Actually it does not in many cases depending on the 'look back' period.

The feds can force any transfer during the look back period to be unwound.

Trusts can help avoid probate delays.

They do nothing for taxes.

hermannr
March 30, 2011, 01:36 AM
Geckgo, happy to hear all is settled for you.

Geckgo
March 30, 2011, 10:20 AM
Thank you all, yes, we are getting mom squared away, including getting her a life insurance policy, even if it's a small one.

Top_Gunn
March 30, 2011, 10:45 AM
Glad it worked out. This thread is also a nice reminder that not all lawyers are going to charge you a bundle for simple paperwork. There are times when a few bucks for good legal advice is a wise investment.

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