[bimmerland]

Just got my NC CHP and am now shopping for a small concealable handgun. I have tried several so far and I need help in deciding what is best. I have arthritis in my shooting hand and cannot stand a lot of felt recoil.

What I have tried so far.

1. Glock 19 - large acceptable recoil good house defense gun
2. Taurus 85 with combat grips - not bad recoil a little heavy for pocket carry
3. SIG P232 - acceptable recoil but still quite large for pocket carry
4. Glock 26 - about the same recoil as the G19 but very bulky
5. S&W BG 380 - to small of a grip and bad recoil

I have been reading about .32 ACP and .380 (Kel-Tek, NAA, Taurus) and the difference between blowback and locked breech.

Questions

1. Is a .32 ACP at the marginal acceptance for a carry gun.
2. Is there a .380 that is subcompact with low recoil
3. Is there a 9MM that is subcompact with low recoil

I have read a lot of articles regarding caliber size and the adage that any gun is better than no gun at all. I also have a price ceiling of about $500.

I don't plan on carrying every day but there will be circumstances when I will need to carry in a most discrete manner and the smaller the better.

Reliability is crucial since occasional use means I won't be able to verify operation before it is used. I do plan on going to my local range as often as I can to hone my skills on whatever I purchase.

I know this is a lot to ask but any suggestions would be very helpful at this point. Remember what fits you may not fit me. If you have the same physical limitations then you can understand my plight.

Thanks in advance for all your help. I know I can trust your judgement and expertise in helping me sort out this matter. Just try and see it from my perspective when you make a recommendation.

[mdauben]

Glock 19 - large acceptable recoil good house defense gun
The G19 is actually an excellent carry gun, too. You do mention "pocket carry" a couple times, and it is too large for that but it is excellent in an "inside the waistband" (IWB) holster.

Taurus 85 with combat grips - not bad recoil a little heavy for pocket carry

May people seem to consider small alloy-frame revolvers like the Taurus 85 as the optimim choice for pocket carry. Two suggestions though; for actual pocket carry I would go with a hammerless or conceled hammer model, and any gun will ride much better in a pocket holster than just loose in your pocket.

Is a .32 ACP at the marginal acceptance for a carry gun.

Personally, I consider the .380 or standard pressure .38spl to be the bottom rung of "acceptable" SD rounds. You can find pistols in .380 that are just about as small as a .32, so I don't see any reason to go with the smaller cartridge (same can be said for .25 and .22 pocket pistols).

Given your situation, I would probably recommend a small, alloy/polymer framed revolver in .38 spl (S&W and Ruger would be my first choice as there is some concern about the reliability of current production Taurus guns) or a small frame .380 like the Ruger LCP, Kahr P380 or S&W Bodyguard 380.

[Dr_B]

A Bersa .380 is a comfortable, reliable, and inexpensive gun. They make the regular Thunder .380 and also the concealed carry version, which is a smoothed-out version of the Thunder. I like the Ruger LCP for a carry piece that disappears into any pocket. If had had arthritis in my hands, I would NOT get a .38 snubby.

[bimmerland]

Just added that I shot a BG 380. With place for only 2 fingers it hurt bad enough that I could not keep it on point. Muzzle flip way too much.

[ldhulk]

The combination of very small size and reasonable power produces a gun that is very hard to control. Light weight exagerates recoil, and small grips with perhaps only two fingers able to get any purchase, and you have a gun that is really hard to hit anything with. Many small automatics tend to jam if not firmly held. I tried a NAA .32 guardian and a .40 S&W derringer. Neither one worked for me. You might look into the purchase of special clothing items, such as a vest with built in holster; there are a lot of ideas on sale along this line; which would enable you to carry something with a larger grip and more weight. I think this would give you more control and enable you to carry something with enough power to do the job, (like a .38+p) and still hit something.

[klutchless]

Have you cosidered a compact 1911 ?

[bimmerland]

@klutchless - have not,, do you have some suggestions in mind?

[bimmerland]

@mdauben - BG380 tried but could not keep mutliple shots in same place just like gunblast.com video. Could hit where laser was but secondary shots never in same place if rapid fire is required.

[TheProf]

Consider the G26 (9mm) subcompact. It's smaller than the G19 and can use the larger Glock mags (G19, G17).

Mine has fired 1500 rounds problem-free.

Most super compact .380s are too small (at least for me) to rapidly draw and fire. The larger .380s are as big as many 9mms. You might as well go with the larger caliber (9mm).

In the ideal world... If you can get three different size carry guns...my favorites would be:
LCP (.380); j-frame revolver; G26 (or G27).

Of the 3, my G27/27 gets carried 95% of the time. Even with what I said regarding the .380, I believe that is an important in having a complete carry-gun collection. Having options is good.

[powerline]

The Walther PK 380 might be a better fit for you. It's larger than most 380s, so you should be able to get a full grip on it. It also has about twice the capacity of most 380s.
If you want something smaller, I'd look at the new Ruger LC9. Just a little larger than the LCP and you get a round better suited for social purposes.

[ZeBool]

If you have arthritic hands and are recoil sensitive, the last gun you want to buy is a snub nosed .38. I bought my lady a Smith & Wesson model 642 to carry, and found that after 20 our so rounds it was painful for ME to shoot. I sold it and bought her a Kahr MK9. Very compact, very manageable recoil. You also might want to consider a a Sig P238. It's a very light-recoil .380. I've been very impressed with mine thus far.

[2WheelsGood]

2. Is there a .380 that is subcompact with low recoilSIG P238 is completely manageable, still quite small, and very high build quality compared to most other .380 choices.

[neilin]

I consider the Star Firestar 9mm subcompact. It is very controlable and accurate. I do not think they are still made, but I occassionally see one at a shop or gun show.

[ForumSurfer]

After a few years of carrying, here is a 10 point checklist compiled from what I have discovered for myself that works for me and makes me feel prepared...and in this order.



Pick an effective caliber and a weapon that you can afford to shoot/train with often and stockpile ammo for.
Pick a carry position, holster and gear setup that facilitates a fast draw. If you can't get to it when you need it, what good is carrying it? For me, that rules out pocket carry. I wear my pants close fitting enough that the pockets aren't baggy and a smooth draw isn't possible...for me.
Practice and train.
Practice and train.
Practice and train.
Practice and train.
Practice and train.
Practice and train.
Practice and train.
Comfort.

Yes I realize if it is too uncomfortable, you won't carry. There's an old saying that says a 380 pocket gun is better than the 45 you left at home. I disagree, that pocket 380 is just as worthless as the 45 at home if you can't put rounds on target quickly and accurately. Some people may prefer baggier pockets and a pocket gun and they may be fast with them, too. But for me, regular old jeans or khakis and a glock in my waistband is the most comfortable. OWB is even more comfortable. I just ordered a custom holster from a member here that makes them and I'll see how I like that. For now, I prefer IWB in a crossbreed type rig with my 19 since it is concealable in just shorts and a tshirt.

YMMV and I completely respect those that feel otherwise.

My happy medium is a glock 19 in a crossbreed type holster. I'm going to try a 26 once someone trades me my 19 for their 26. :)

[ForumSurfer]

1. Is a .32 ACP at the marginal acceptance for a carry gun.IMHO, no.
2. Is there a .380 that is subcompact with low recoilI assume you mean smaller than a subcompact like a glock 26 or a m&p9c. I don't know. I can’t grip, shoot and manipulate pocket guns as effectively as I can sub compacts and compacts (glock 19 and 26 size weapons) so I gave up looking for nice ones. The bersa's or sig’s that I have shot didn't recoil badly...but I only fired about 50 rounds at a time through a friend’s weapon.
3. Is there a 9MM that is subcompact with low recoil Same as above. I don’t feel comfortable with slim, single stack 9mm’s. If I’m going to carry less than ten rounds, I’ll just go back to carrying a 1911 in 45. I don’t blame anyone for feeling differently…it is just my opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

[jcj]

SIG P238 is completely manageable, still quite small, and very high build quality compared to most other .380 choices.

+1 on the SIG P238. I've shot the LCP, TCP, and P3AT. I currently own a P238. The SIG P238 is by far the softest shooting, likely due to the fact its a tad heavier than the others.

[Mudinyeri]

In keeping with ForumSurfer's line of thought ...

How should one go about deciding on a self-defense weapon that you intend to carry concealed (in order of importance)?

1. Simplicity - I recommend against manual safeties because you're likely to forget about them under the extreme stress of a self-defense situation unless you spend several hours practicing with your weapon every week.

2. Comfort - If your weapon is not comfortable to carry, you're less likely to carry it ... and have it when you need it. If your weapon is not comfortable to shoot, you're less likely to practice with it ... and be prepared to use it when you need it. If your weapon is not comfortable to draw, you're less likely to be able to draw it in time to do something ... when you need it.

3. Concealability - Concealed carry means concealed carry. Some states even have laws to the effect that your concealed carry weapon cannot be visible (including 'printing' beneath your shirt). You'll get over the self-consciousness eventually, but the weapon should still be easily concealed.

With the top three out of the way, here are a few other thoughts:

1. In a true self-defense scenario, you won't have time to line up sights, aim, breathe out, carefully squeeze the trigger and fire so I'd dispense with fancy sights and focus on a gun you can "point shoot" ... which takes familiarity and practice.

2. Practice, practice, practice .... Again, in a self-defense scenario, you're not going to have time to think about drawing your weapon, getting the right grip, etc. It needs to be pure muscle memory. The gun you choose is irrelevant. Whatever it is, it needs to be an extension of your arm.

3. Practice the right things. Self-defense shooting is not about standing upright and stationary and firing at a static paper target 20 yards away. Self-defense shooting is dynamic, up close and personal. Practice with this in mind.

4. Retention is key. If the bad guy takes your weapon away from you, it's going to be a bad day. Understand how to retain and use your weapon in a close-quarters engagement and practice doing so.

[iblong]

I to would recomend the 26 for in the waist band due to the acceptable recoil
for you,they are dependable easy to shoot.they are not as bad in the waist band as you might think not being used to anything there.I would also recomend a used kahr pm 9,They are a little thinner with good pointability and recoil is not bad.Many of the ultra small 380's will recoil more harsh,
And while I might recomend an all steel snub,the ultra lights may be to much for you,and require practice to shoot well.

[dennisgibson]

What about a Ruger LCR? Maybe in .357? That way you could sho0t .38's too and play with the load until you get a recoil you can live with.

Costs about $ 500. Carry it in your pocket in a pocket holster and you can't get more reliable that revolver.

[Shadow 7D]

I'm not you,

But I found in a VERY small package, that the .32 excels. A .380 is less controllable, but if you aren't limiting yourself to a pocket mouse, then consider any of the current generation of slim nines, like the PF9, or the SC9 or Taurus one.

Mouseguns.com com as a HUGE amount of info.

If you want inexpensive and fun, find a CZ82, it's not the smallest piece, but VERY shootable and in a decent round (9mak)

A pocket gun, even in 9mm, isn't a service gun, and uses different tactics,
What works for me, may not for you
SHOOT THEM, in the end, it's you who has to decide.

[NMGonzo]

Do yourself a favor and get a ruger sp101.

You will never regret it.

[bimmerland]

Thank you all for your input. Here in NC it will be summer quite soon so my decision will also be based on loose fittting lightweight clothing including shorts and a tee shirt. I will spend time looking a what I can conceal with the choice of summer attire. I like the idea of the G26 but with clothing constraints I might look into a .380 or a .32 ACP single stack such as Walther, Bersa, Sig, or Kel-Tek. I would rather go with a 9MM but I think my choice is quite limited due to recoil contraints and suitable size for summer carry. If I have missed anything please let me know. Again, thanks for all the great suggestions.
Cheers!!

[ForumSurfer]

I live in NC, also. I carry a glock 19 in shorts and a tshirt or other shirts just fine. I don't like to wear loose fitting clothes either. 5'10" 175lb for what it's worth. Somewhere between average and muscular. Carrying a 19 or a 26 IWB is a whole bunch less trouble than you think fwiw.

Be sure to look at some other posts on here about various house bills and senate bills in NC. We've been active lately on the parks, recs and restaurant ccw bills. Emailing our reps while the issue is hot actually gets their attention if enough of us do it.

[BluEyes]

Ruger SR9c. Thin, concealable, and gentle shooting. Works great IWB for me.

[LightningMan]

IMO its the Kahr PM9, nuff said.

[Cemo]

You might try .38 Spec. loaded with wad cutters in a light weight S&W 5 shot revolver or the Ruger LCR in .38. Wad cutters are for target shooting and have low recoil but should be on equal par with a .380 or a little more. I would try to try out the combination prior to buying, maybe rental or a friend. The lightweight 5 shot revolvers do not weight your pants down during pocket carry and with a good pocket holster can be carried without much printing.

[bimmerland]

Anybody has opinions in reference to a Beretta Tomcat since it is a .32 ACP and a good quality firearm. It is lightweight and very concealable. Thanks

[bimmerland]

@ForumSurfer.. Just got my CCW from Wake this week. Glad to hear about SB34. Takes a load off of honest civilians trying to protect themselves. Next Dixie show end of April. Will look at all suggestions. Thanks

[ATBackPackin]

In 9mm I think the Kahr CW9 might be a good compromise for your situation.

- 9mm
- not a pocket gun, but very thin so easily concealable even in summer clothing
- for a compact gun I think the recoil is very manageable
- yet big enough to get your whole hand on
- in your price range
- plenty light enough to carry all day
- +2500 rounds though mine with no problems so they are reliable

I can put +200 rounds down range without any discomfort, but I do not have arthritis in my hands. However they are pretty popular so I think it would be relatively easy to find a somewhere to rent one and find how it works for you. I do use a slip-on grip for a little extra comfort and I could not be happier with it. Just because it works for me doesn't mean it will work for you, but I think you could benefit from trying one.

I haven't personally shot a Bersa but have heard mostly really good things about them. They have 9's and 380's and with the weight of a metal gun could soak up some of the recoil. I do know they are not as thin as the Kahr.

I think Kel-tec's are great little and inexpensive carry guns, but I'm not sure I would recommend one to someone with arthritis. Either way best of luck.

Shawn

Kahr CW9 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506352&highlight=cw9)

[ForumSurfer]

If you can't shoot properly then you will need a canon that kills without hitting the upper center mass or head.

I have to disagree respectfully, brother.

All handguns are inadequate when it comes to stopping power...with the exception of big bore 4xx and 5xx stuff. None of them can be trusted to be one shot fight stopper, you need a few rounds center of mass until the threat is no longer a threat.

If you can't shoot properly, you just need to train and shoot more to fix it. :)

Once upon a time, I spent many weeks up in Dayton due to my job. Haven't been there in years. I miss going through the wright patterson museum!

[Mudinyeri]

Thank you all for your input. Here in NC it will be summer quite soon so my decision will also be based on loose fittting lightweight clothing including shorts and a tee shirt. I will spend time looking a what I can conceal with the choice of summer attire. I like the idea of the G26 but with clothing constraints I might look into a .380 or a .32 ACP single stack such as Walther, Bersa, Sig, or Kel-Tek. I would rather go with a 9MM but I think my choice is quite limited due to recoil contraints and suitable size for summer carry. If I have missed anything please let me know. Again, thanks for all the great suggestions.
Cheers!!
I carry a Glock 19 in summer attire. Properly holstered, a gun the size of the Glock 19 is easily concealed.

The recommendation for the Kahr CW9, however, is a good one. I have a CW40 myself. Nice weapon for the price and very easily concealed in an IWB holster - even when wearing lightweight T-shirts like the loose-fitting Under Armour Heat Gear shirts.

[Ridgerunner665]

Glock 36?

I just recently switched to the G36 myself, after carrying a 1911 for quite some time.

The G36 is thin, light, short (both ways), large caliber, accurate, reliable, easy to shoot (IMO)...and I never liked Glock pistols so I'm not a fan boy...just stating what I have learned the past several weeks.

If you look online you will see a lot of negative reviews on the G36...when it was first introduced (several years ago) it had a few problems...Glock has since fixed these issues, the new ones are just like any other Glock....boringly reliable.

http://www.glock.com/english/glock36.htm

I carry it in a Mitch Rosen 5JR holster (or at least I will when it gets here...ordered it about 3 weeks ago, should have it by April 19)

EDIT: About the recoil and your arthritis...the G36 is an easy shooter if you stay away from +P ammo...both my wrists have been broken several times and it doesn't bother me even with +P ammo (I carry Hornady 230 grain TAP +P)...it really is a soft shooter.

[Ridgerunner665]

I saw a new in box G36 on Gunbroker last night for $515 (buy now price)

[txhoghunter]

Look into a Sig P238, its a very accurate .380 with zero recoil that you can slide into your pocket. I was skeptical about it, but after taking one to the range I'm sold!

[TexasBill]

Walther PK380. It uses a locked breech instead of straight blowback so there is minimal recoil and the slide is easier to operate. Nine round capacity. Quite accurate and very dependable (with decent ammo - the only FTF or FTE I have had were due to some low-quality ammo that was all I could get during the Great .380 Famine). And it's inexpensive: Bud's lists it at $341.00 including shipping and a local gun shop has it advertised for $350.00. It's bigger than the mouse pistols but fits in cargo shorts pockets okay and tucks in a waistband very nicely. Loaded with nine 102-grain Remington Golden Sabers, it weighs 22.1 ounces. By comparison, a Smith & Wesson Model 637 Airweight with a 1 7/8-inch barrel loaded with five 125-grain Remington Lead-Free FNEBs weighs a hair over 16 ounces.

[jawn]

My vote is for an M&P compact. It slots between the Glock 19 and 26 in terms of size, and operates in a largely similar manner, but with a far more comfortable (and adjustable) grip. The XDm 3.8 is another in-between sized gun with an adjustable grip size.

That said, try before you buy is the route that I'd go. You can probably conceal just about any gun given enough effort, but not just any gun is right for how you shoot. I can concealed-carry my full-size Glock 17 if I'm wearing the right clothes and with the right holster.

[IdahoSkies]

Anybody has opinions in reference to a Beretta Tomcat since it is a .32 ACP and a good quality firearm. It is lightweight and very concealable. Thanks

Yes I have an opinion. I loved my tomcat. (Please notice the past tense). It fit in my pocket, filled my hand and pointed right where I wanted it to. Then one day I could not hit the broad side of a barn with it. Literally, I couldn't put a shot on paper. I stripped it and found a crack in the frame. It is a common problem, but one that I thought would not effect me as I followed berreta's ammo recomendations. I sent it back and they repalced it with a new tomcat, but with a wide slide. I love the gun but have no confidence in it, and for a .32 it can't handle the hotter loads that the kel-tec can. I'm in the process of trading it in for a kel-tec right now. Do your self a favor and either buy a ktp32 or sig238 (which is actually about the same size and weight as the tomcat).

If you just have to get a tomcat, Google "tomcat frame crack" read a lot, and at least make your decision with your eyes wide open.

[mr.trooper]

OP - I realize that you're simply looking to be TOLD what will work and what wont by people who have also been TOLD...

But I strongly urge you to get more trigger time, try more things, and do more thinking before finally coming up with what will work for you.

[R0CKETMAN]

G19 gets my vote

[ForumSurfer]

I've owned many guns over the course of my life. Colts, Kimbers, Taurus, Rossi, glock, beretta, springfields...the list goes on.

What if my house burned down tomorrow and they were somehow all gone because I didn't have time to grab my nightstand piece (that is also my carry piece) on the way out and I had to purchase one tomorrow to "do it all?" I'd run out and buy a g19.

[Warp]

I vote Glock 26 or 19, depending on the size you want. Failing that a small but not too small (NOT micro) 9mm. Not a taurus. Not a keltec.

I made a Glock 26 my first handgun and it was a wise decision I would make again. I really do love my G19 though.

3+ years and this is my first post. lol

[greginVa]

opinions are just that. You have to go with what you like. I like the G26 with grip extension on mag. and s&w model 60. With the 60 you only get 5 shots but full-boat .357 mag ammo gives an unreal muzzle blast in a 2 inch barrel.

[MarshallDodge]

I would recommend something in 9mm and purchase some quality hollowpoints.

G19 and M&P9c are excellent choices.

Kahr CW9 and Walther PPS in 9mm are good choices as well if you need something smaller.

[Warp]

I wouldn't worry too much about quality hollow points until he learns how to shoot.

Take a course. A good one. I'm talking on the level of frontsite, suarez international, gunsite, etc

[Capp35]

+1 on the Kahr PM9

It is smaller and slimmer than any Glock and has as super smooth trigger. It also has a modest recoil due to the duel recoil springs, and is the same size as many of the "carry" 380 models.

[orionengnr]

I love my PM9 but it's a bit snappy, and it's basically a two-finger proposition (unless you use the seven round mag, which compromises concealability.

The CW9 would allow a real three finger grip.

The G19/26 is too fat for me, and the OP pretty much said the same thing in his first post.

I have had two P3ATs and a P32, and firing them back to back it was clear to me that the .32 is significantly less powerful than the .380. I made the choice at that time that I would never trust my life to a .32, but my arthritis isn't as bad (yet).

I'd sure rather have a .32 than an empty hand.

[JDGray]

I'm very impressed with the accuracy, and shootability of my Kahr CW9. It handles like a fullsize, and it conceals like a mini:)

[fcthompson]

Sig Sauer P232, .380 (7+1)

[almherdfan]

The Bersa Thunder CC is a nice .380 that you can pocket carry and has lower recoil. I'm loving my new 9mm Ruger SR9c, carried IWB. The Walther PK380 is also very nice and has agreeable recoil. A XD 9 subcompact is a fine, soft-shooting carry weapon.

[Agent Orange]

Another vote for the Kahr CW9. Been really happy with mine. Accurate, reliable, and carries well.