.223


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Forklift352
March 18, 2011, 04:38 AM
I have an AR-15, 16 in. bl. 1 and 9 twist.
What is a good mid load?

55 gr. Hornady FMJ-BT
H335
WSR primer
mixed case 1.75 trimed

I have the Hornady man. but load data is for
24" 1-12 twist.
I did up some 22.3 gr H335 but I have been thinking
way to slow.
Next I did some 24.7
From what Iv been seeing 25.5 is max
I can't get to the range till sat. And would like
to have 2 or 3 resipes than 4 or 5 to speed check

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ArchAngelCD
March 18, 2011, 04:59 AM
The data in your Hornady manual isn't just for a 24" barrel, it's only letting you know how the results they report were achieved. (as in velocity)

When i load the .223 with H335 and a 55gr bullet my most successful charge is 25.0gr. That charge isn't "hot" but not weak either and will cycle any AR15 that I've ever shot. I've also found that charge weight to be accurate but of course only your rifle can tell you if it's accurate for you too.

If you decide to tray another powder give Varget a try. I have had extremely good success with Varget especially in my bolt action rifle. I also use a charge of 25.0gr of Varget under a 55gr bullet.

Forklift352
March 18, 2011, 01:41 PM
Thank you I will pick up some...
I remember using the load data
out of the manual last year and
my speeds were at 2500.

Most factory loads were like 3000.
Then I saw the 1-12 25" bl.

So I'll roll with 24.7 and make some 25.0

MtnCreek
March 18, 2011, 01:50 PM
If you try the Varget, it will be a 'really' compressed load. If these are being loaded on a progressive, Varget will probably not be a good choice.

Forklift352
March 18, 2011, 04:44 PM
Thank you... I do have a Hornady LNL so maybe
I try varget and use my single stage at a latter date.

Enco
March 18, 2011, 04:51 PM
26.2 grains of Winchester W748

Bob

carlsca
March 18, 2011, 06:00 PM
If you are using mixed brass, in my opinion, you have no choice but to use charge weights on the lower end. The .223 case isn't that big so even a relatively small change in case capacity can have a significant change in pressures (like you get with mixed brass). You can't expect ideal velocities because that isn't what you are loading for with mixed brass.

rsrocket1
March 18, 2011, 06:01 PM
My best groups were with 25.0g H335 55g fmjbt w/c seated at mid cannelure, no crimp (COL ~ 2.25"). 20" 1:7 AR.

I got big differences in groups going from 23 to 24 to 25gr. 1" groups is way better than I can shoot without a scope and gun vice, so I didn't go any further trying to perfect this load, I just stuck with it and started cranking away with the reloader at that setting.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9244/h335.jpg

Branden967
March 18, 2011, 08:56 PM
Thanks MtnCreek. I didnt know that about the Varget.

MtnCreek
March 18, 2011, 09:47 PM
I didnt know that about the Varget.

It didn't work for me. When the shell plate indexed, it would flip some power out because the cases were almost full to the top. For target stuff on a progressive, I've started using IMR 8208xbr. A good charge does not fill the case nearly as much.

NCsmitty
March 18, 2011, 09:52 PM
I'm not trying to offend here, rsrocket1, but if you base your data on that one group, it doesn't mean too much. You need to be able to repeat it on a consistent basis to log it.
If you're using open base FMJBT, they often are not as consistent as solid base versions. Even budget soft points like the Midsouth Varmint Nightmares will usually group better than any FMJBT.

MtnCreek, several people here are now using IMR 8208xbr with great success. Varget is better with heavy bullets.

Don't mix your brass unless it's just for plinking.



NCsmitty

rsrocket1
March 18, 2011, 10:44 PM
NCsmitty,
No offense taken. I am only pointing out that you really need to develop a load systematically for your particular gun and if a particular load doesn't work, don't dismiss the powder or bullet, keep trying.

Here's more of the story.

I was originally trying to save a little $ by loading lighter because the lighter loads still cycled my gun just fine. The groups didn't seem to be very good, so I started working up loads closer to the recommended max load of 25.3 grains. I made 5 rounds of each load working up 0.3 grains from 22 through 25.3 (22, 22.3, 22.6, 23, 23.3, 23.6, 24, etc). I started out with whole grain increments and saw the huge change in groups.

I worked around 0.2 grain increments from 24.6 to 25.2 and still found 25.0 to be the best for my gun. I am not an advocate of always looking for the max speed in a given cartridge, it's just that this load happened to give me the best grouping.

I have since found that this is still the best load for 55g fmjbt open base Xtreme bullets @ $40/500 (tough to beat that price). This is for plinking in my case and these groups are better than I can typically shoot open sights off of sandbags, offhand or with the rifle propped up on my hand with my elbow resting on a table. I wanted a round that I know is better than the conditions I shoot in so that if the groups are worse than 1MOA, I know its me and not my gun/ammo.

The OP asked for a good mid load and not world class performance. 25g of H335 is a good mid load for 3000 fps out of a 20"barrel. I would expect that he would get about 2860 fps out of his 16" AR.

frankge
March 18, 2011, 10:51 PM
I load .223 at 25g and dropped to 24g to try since my kid is shooting it and wanted to see if recoil reductions helps. He said today that it was fine. Just me screwing around, 25g seemd to be the agreed upon best load for H335. I loaded about 300 rounds today

NCsmitty
March 18, 2011, 11:03 PM
rsrocket1, I understand, and good point.
Carry on.



NCsmitty

ArchAngelCD
March 19, 2011, 12:40 AM
If you try the Varget, it will be a 'really' compressed load. If these are being loaded on a progressive, Varget will probably not be a good choice.
Ummm, NO... A charge of 25.0gr Varget is nowhere near a compressed load in the .223. As a matter of fact 25.0gr is the starting load in Lyman 49 and slightly under the starting load on the Hodgdon site. If you push up to the Max load you will have a compressed load but not the load I suggested.

Hondo 60
March 19, 2011, 12:44 AM
I like Varget in my AR.
I have a 20" 1 in 9 & use 26.2 gr of Varget under a 55 gr FJM.
I know some have issues with that bullet, but it's very accurate in my AR15A1

MtnCreek
March 19, 2011, 04:58 PM
A charge of 25.0gr Varget is nowhere near a compressed load in the .223. As a matter of fact 2.50gr is the starting load in Lyman 49 and slightly under the starting load on the Hodgdon site. If you push up to the Max load you will have a compressed load but not the load I suggested.

Looks like you're right. I checked my load card and was loading 27.2gr in LC brass. The case was filled almost to the top.

rskent
March 20, 2011, 07:43 AM
I guess I need a new scale. I use Winchester cases with 24 grains of Varget. When I stuff in a 77grain Matchking I hear a crunching sound.
Maybe I just need to get my hearing checked. OK I get it, long bullet. When I load 52 grain Matchkings I still hear a faint crunch.

As to the OP. 335 is a great powder for the 223. I have shot a bunch of 52s over 335.
Good luck
Steve

rjrivero
March 20, 2011, 04:37 PM
When i load the .223 with H335 and a 55gr bullet my most successful charge is 25.0gr. That charge isn't "hot" but not weak either and will cycle any AR15 that I've ever shot. I've also found that charge weight to be accurate but of course only your rifle can tell you if it's accurate for you too.

I find it rather interesting that everyone, reguardless of twist is finding 25gr to be the most accurate load for a 55gr bullet in .223.

Add me to that list. It's all I shoot these days from my AR. And the groups at 100 yards are pretty reasonable.

RustyFN
March 20, 2011, 07:07 PM
I load the same bullet with 25 grains of H335. I shoot them in a Rock River 16" with a 1:9 twist and they have been very accurate for me.

ArchAngelCD
March 21, 2011, 06:06 AM
Originally Posted By: rskent
I guess I need a new scale. I use Winchester cases with 24 grains of Varget. When I stuff in a 77grain Matchking I hear a crunching sound.
Maybe I just need to get my hearing checked. OK I get it, long bullet. When I load 52 grain Matchkings I still hear a faint crunch.
You don't need to get your hearing checked. Varget will produce compressed loads across the board with all bullet weights when loaded to the Max charge. When loaded below the Max charge you won't compress the powder. I didn't say all Varget loads aren't compressed, just that the load I was talking about wasn't.

As for that 77gr bullet, Hodgdon recommends a Max charge of 23.7gr Varget and they do report it's compressed.

bbuddtec
March 21, 2011, 04:24 PM
Okay, here's what I understand, as an H335 loader w/55gr hpbt's...
25.3 is max
25 works great for most

then out of curiosity, I ran some loads and it seems my gun really likes 24 even...

I never noticed any diff in kick/ report etc. just tighter group...

more news at 11:00 :)

Ares45
March 21, 2011, 11:06 PM
Add me to the list!

My rifle's accuracy load:
25.2 H335
Horn. #2267 55gr FMJ
WSR primer
LC mil brass
COL 2.220"
1:9 twist
Hodgdon lists 3,000+fps from a 20" bbl. I get about 2900fps from my 16" rifle.

ArchAngelCD
March 22, 2011, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted By: bbuddtec
Okay, here's what I understand, as an H335 loader w/55gr hpbt's...
25.3 is max
25 works great for most

then out of curiosity, I ran some loads and it seems my gun really likes 24 even...

I never noticed any diff in kick/ report etc. just tighter group...

more news at 11:00
That just goes to show you why we all say everyone gun is different. I have no doubt you're correct that the 24gr load is your most accurate. I have actually seen 2 exactly the same rifles shoot two different charge weights one better than the other. I'm not kidding, a friend bought himself and his son the same rifle and both rifles liked a different charge weight better with the same bullet and brass.

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