Negligent discharge while cleaning gun


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tactidrool
March 19, 2011, 07:52 AM
Unfortunate story (http://www.ocala.com/article/20110318/ARTICLES/110319595/1439?Title=Man-who-died-may-have-accidentally-shot-himself-while-cleaning-gun) reported in my area:

Looks like he had a round in the chamber and pulled the trigger while trying to take the slide off, and had it pointed at his face.

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ATBackPackin
March 19, 2011, 09:06 AM
Very sad and my condolences to his family.

Hopefully someone will learn from his mistake and remember that we must always be diligent around firearms.

Shawn

ZCORR Jay
March 19, 2011, 09:15 AM
Sad indeed.

Reminds you of Rule # 1. The gun is always loaded.

leadcounsel
March 19, 2011, 09:53 AM
Suspicious story. Often times these "ND" stories are a suicide coverup for insurance or dignity purposes.

A neighbor, who heard a loud pop, looked out his front door and saw Beckman lying next to his car inside the garage. The garage door was open and when the neighbor walked closer, he saw that Beckmam was shot...

When investigators arrived, they found Beckman lying face down at the rear of an SUV inside the garage. The vehicle's lift gate was open and in the cargo area, investigators found a white towel and a box containing gun cleaning supplies. There also was a gun cleaning rod with a cleaning wipe attached to the tip, according to reports.



I call BS. When have you EVER pointed the gun at your face when it was assembled?

68wj
March 19, 2011, 10:01 AM
Suspicious story. Often times these "ND" stories are a suicide coverup for insurance or dignity purposes.



I call BS. When have you EVER pointed the gun at your face when it was assembled?
Agreed. It is very awkward to point the gun at your face AND pull the trigger. Thoughts and prayers to his family though as I am sure the pain is real.

Geckgo
March 19, 2011, 10:14 AM
My BS detector went off as well, but this should be a reminder to all anyways. If not for yourself, practice gun safety for your family's sake.

Axel Larson
March 19, 2011, 10:35 AM
A friend of mine died young and even though the police ruled suicide, the family always called it an accident. So I would agree that this was probably not a what it was called;however, if that is what the family needs to think than that is that.

Claude Clay
March 19, 2011, 01:38 PM
was he arthritic? or diabetic with neuropathy? i am and i can make a case for a glock type gun being dissembled and sweeping his face. it goes against the rules of gun handling but in a moment of 'keep trying' this or that, coupled with a weak grip and painful hands (partly caused perhaps by the firing of the gun?) those 2 pesky disassembly pins did him in.

or he staged it well.

the only one who can say is gone. sympathy to his loved ones.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
March 19, 2011, 01:54 PM
Any way it happened, I just hope he knew ahead of time where he would end up.

JohnD13
March 19, 2011, 01:59 PM
Darwin's theory in action. Too bad the family has to deal with the outcome.

Owen Sparks
March 19, 2011, 02:17 PM
I have no idea what happened in this case but I have been told by a police detective that a certain percentage of gun “accidents” are suicides. This is also true for some one car accidents, falls and drownings. Suicide has a terrible social stigma and people who kill themselves sometimes want to spare their families any extra grief so they make it look like an accident. The investigators usually don't go to a lot of trouble to prove otherwise as long as no one else was involved because they don't want to further upset family members.

Standing Wolf
March 19, 2011, 02:32 PM
When have you EVER pointed the gun at your face when it was assembled?

It happened to me once quite a few years ago. A guy showed up for a bullseye match none of us had ever seen before. He was having accuracy trouble, but didn't know how to adjust the rear sight. I volunteered to help. If I'd been a bit sharper, I'd have verified his revolver was empty. I asked him. He pointed it right at me and repeated the famous line, "No, it's not loaded.”

He was disqualified on the spot and escorted outdoors PDQ. The range master took me aside as soon as he returned and chewed me up one side and down the other for asking a stupid question instead of checking the dimwit's gun.

P5 Guy
March 19, 2011, 06:13 PM
If I ever had the notion to commit suicide I'd have all my cleaning stuff out, too.
Insurance, you know?

ObsidianOne
March 19, 2011, 07:40 PM
The slide may have had an issue coming off and maybe he was trying to get it free and muzzle swiped himself?

Ole Coot
March 19, 2011, 07:57 PM
All I can say is sorry for the family and very, very strange if he had ever cleaned his handgun before.

SlamFire1
March 19, 2011, 08:09 PM
Maybe the news report was inaccurate.

Suicide or negligent discharge, sad either way.

TheGewehrGuy
March 19, 2011, 08:09 PM
I have pointed an assembled gun at myself before. Of course I made sure several times that it was empty, and the bolt was locked open.

I occasionally do that to check the barrel on a semi-automatic. I don't see the big deal. When I do it with bolt actions I take out the bolt, there's no way its going off.


And I do call BS on the story, there's no possible way under ordinary circumstances that you can do that. The arthritic story is possible though.

BaltimoreBoy
March 19, 2011, 08:20 PM
I agree with P5_Guy - if I were trying to make a suicide look like an accident I would make sure the gun cleaning supplies were in evidence. I also thought it interesting that the man's wife was out of town and the cleaning lady was there - if it was a suicide he was trying to make sure that his wife was not the one to find him. Give him points for that at least.

Of course, who ever knows for sure what's in another man's mind?

Sic transit gloria mundi. Requiesat in pacem.

jgiehl
March 19, 2011, 08:21 PM
The point is a man is dead. For whichever reasons it happened it does not matter.
Sympathy should be displayed NOT skepticism.

Impureclient
March 19, 2011, 08:24 PM
I think we all know really what happened and as was said, it's best just to leave it alone and chalk it up as an accident for the families sake.
Imagine if they(relatives) were Googling articles related to his death and came upon this thread and never thought suicide was a possibility.

crankyoldlady
March 19, 2011, 08:26 PM
My dad was a LEO from 1954-1984. He told me that NDs whilst "cleaning" a firearm that result in the death of the handler were always termed accidental in deference to the family but, were in fact, something other than accidental. Insurance, death benefits, and, not infrequently, Catholic burial rights were considerations.

armsmaster270
March 19, 2011, 08:43 PM
First rule, remove magazine
second rule check chamber
My BS gage pinned itself.

jerkface11
March 19, 2011, 08:49 PM
Imagine if they(relatives) were Googling articles related to his death and came upon this thread and never thought suicide was a possibility.

I doubt such innocent and trusting souls have internet access.

NG VI
March 20, 2011, 01:35 AM
That's too bad. Spending a moment in thought for the family.

Ignition Override
March 20, 2011, 01:50 AM
Years ago, at least one guy here reportedly (by a long-time member) sneaked into the woods and then stood behind either the 200 or 600 yard range targets during a competition or such. This was so that the family would receive the insurance.

But as for accidents, it happened to a retired guy about 63 years old, from the same company over fifteen years ago in Pt. Clear/Fairhope AL. He was very level-headed when I worked with him once or twice, but he was just an acquaintance.

Ralph had a .44 or .357 Magnum, was cleaning it and the rd. went into his abdomen. He lived about two-three days.

He had no apparent medical condition before the injury and had a young child and wife, but had been known to enjoy a drink or two (as many of us do).

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 20, 2011, 02:17 AM
I'm really not sure how this thread fits into the mission of THR.

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