"Trust"


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Nushif
March 19, 2011, 08:00 PM
So, I've noticed something kinda funny.

This term "trust" comes up an awful lot when it comes to handguns, knives, first-aid kits, wives and finances, etc. (Do a search for that one word, it's kinda funny.)

Questions come up ranging from whether one can "trust" a police trade-in, whether one can "trust" a gun someone else is selling, whether one can "trust" any kind of QC, whether one can "trust" an open topped slide, whether one can "trust" a gun that has ever seen the inside of a gunsmith shop .. but I'm starting to wonder what we *can* trust?

So following this logic, can we even trust any firearm? Since it's a mechanical device it will fail. this isn't a question as to whether, it's about when, and yes. It may happen in a bad spot. But I'm looking for the attributes that make us actually trust anything. Because from what I've seen ... there's not a lot we trust.

So, my question is:

What aspects of a firearm do you actually really trust? Is for instance the 1911 such a favourite simply based on time it's been around? Is it because it's the perfect design? Why the Glock? IS it engineering that creates a "trusty" firearm?
We don't trust politicians, for obvious reasons, so who do we trust? I know a lot of us don't trust the NRA, either ...
We don't trust police officers to protect us, but we also don't trust ourselves at times ...

So, what do you, specifically really "trust" when it comes to firearms and the surrounding topics?
Also, does gun ownership draw specifically the type of personality who doesn't trust? Is it the vicinity of lethal weapons that makes us not trust other people?

What's your thoughts on this subject? Have you noticed a similar trend?

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cyclopsshooter
March 19, 2011, 08:05 PM
i dont trust extremist nut jobs or their opinions

and you are about to get a lot of them

Yarddog
March 19, 2011, 08:20 PM
Trust is earned IMO ; )
Y/D

Loosedhorse
March 19, 2011, 08:21 PM
Trust is a first-hand thing. If you shoot a particular gun a lot, and it always works, you'll trust it.

Even if it (rarely) bobbles a round, but your ability to clear a jam is fast and sure, you might continue to trust your ability to use that firearm (with different ammo). After all, the firearm isn't going to do anything good and trustworthy without a good and trustworthy operator. (A lot of jams caused by limp-wristing or slide contact get blamed on "that derned gun--I'm getting rid of that POS").

Engineering and good execution at manufacture can produce reputation. Factory Glocks and well tuned 1911s (for example) have great reputations.

But reputaions and trust are different. Trust is individual.

DoubleTapDrew
March 19, 2011, 08:24 PM
Also, does gun ownership draw specifically the type of personality who doesn't trust? Is it the vicinity of lethal weapons that makes us not trust other people?

Quite the opposite. When I'm at the range I trust the other people to keep their shots downrange and not in my direction. If I buy a gun online I sent off the money order and trust the seller to ship the gun to my FFL.

I don't think I'd trust a particular firearm just because I feel it's a good design or it's been around a long time. I need to see for myself and trust comes from many rounds through said weapon. They are mechanical devices and every company puts out the occasional lemon, regardless of the reputation.

randytrapper
March 19, 2011, 09:03 PM
I was always taught to 'Trust' but verify.

Bubba613
March 19, 2011, 11:42 PM
If you really want to "trust" your weapon, carry a rock.

Frankly this subject engenders more nonsense than a lot of others. One dude posted that he would trust his .25 Raven over a police trade Model 10 he had never personally shot. That is, imo, nuts.

People overblow the idea that mechanical devices can fail. If they really believed that they would never get in a car.

ATBackPackin
March 20, 2011, 12:42 AM
Of course mechanical objects fail. That is why we do regular and preventive maintenance and visually inspect them. So I guess my answer is that I "trust" myself to catch something before it becomes a catastrophic failure.

Shawn

jgiehl
March 20, 2011, 12:58 AM
To me a firearm is like a woman.
Tell her you love her.
Make sure she's fed a steady diet.
Give her a bath when she's dirty.
Do all that, and she'll take care of you.

NG VI
March 20, 2011, 01:30 AM
i dont trust extremist nut jobs or their opinions

and you are about to get a lot of them



I love this

Gromky
March 20, 2011, 03:30 AM
We take stupid risks every single day of our lives. Driving, or going anywhere near a street, is probably the single most dangerous choice any of us make. I may be odd, but occasionally when I'm driving I realize that every pedestrian, every person around me is counting on me not just veering off the road or driving straight into his car.

I've fired rifles I know had botched work on them, but they'd survived hundreds of rounds since. Firearm designs, generally they're pretty good. My fellow shooters, that's where I lack trust. I absolutely trust my friends, if they kill me it won't be an accident. My wife, well there's a bit more nervousness there. Risk management is built into everything we do, shooting may not be the safest sport, but it's nowhere near the most dangerous.

x_wrench
March 20, 2011, 01:01 PM
personally, i trust all of my guns. i make certain they are functioning right before i carry it (minimum of 500 rounds with no issues). and i keep them CLEAN. you would be supried how much junk can accumulate in a holstered firearm in a week or so. it only takles a few seconds to check it out before you leave in the morning. i simply cycle a few rounds through the weapon by hand. if i can feel any kind of grit, i take a different gun, and clean it in the evening. that simple act could save your life.

THE DARK KNIGHT
March 20, 2011, 01:06 PM
Tons of anecdotal (aka useless) evidence on the internet. Just because Jimmy from Nebraska's Glock jammed last week is not an indication that the entire brand is no good and the zombies are going to eat your daughter alive when they arrive next week. Maybe Bobby from GA's WASR was pretty terrible but that doesn't mean yours will be.

You have to realize that just like any other product, guns are mass produced by the million and as with absolutely anything, there are going to be some lemons out there. Test your gun - the one in your safe - and see if it's reliable or not. All other speculation on the internet is worth exactly what you paid for it.

22-rimfire
March 20, 2011, 02:20 PM
So following this logic, can we even trust any firearm? Since it's a mechanical device it will fail. this isn't a question as to whether, it's about when, and yes. It may happen in a bad spot. But I'm looking for the attributes that make us actually trust anything. Because from what I've seen ... there's not a lot we trust.

Good topic. I trust that other shooters at the range will be moderately safe and not shoot me intentionally. If I didn't, I would never go to a public or private range to shoot.

I trust a gun that normally functions correctly without jamming or causing misfires.
I trust ammunition that generally goes bang most of the time.

If I don't trust a particular firearm to be safe to shoot, I won't shoot it. If it is some collector piece, it stays... if it is a general shooter, it goes.

Functional trust really comes into play for home defense or personal defense firearms or ammunition. I trust my Glock M23 because it always works with moderately good ammo. I trust my Remington 870 shotgun because it always works.

I trusted my old H&R M999 Sportsman to go off, but it was most unpleasant to shoot much unless you like being burnt or having powder or lead fragments hit you in the face. That gun departed my accumulation and I will never buy another H&R product again because it was their premium 22 DA revolver at the time. I have no patience for factory repairs unless it is a quality firearm to start with.

I trust Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers to function safely.

I don't trust my Colt ACE to function correctly every time. But it is a collector piece and I can live with it.
I did not trust my Colt Mustang 380 to function correctly. It departed my accumulation rather promptly.
I do not trust a Taurus product to function correctly out of the box. Hence, I will never own one.

Owen Sparks
March 20, 2011, 02:30 PM
The weak link with most weapons is you.

gamestalker
March 21, 2011, 04:15 AM
Having worked in loss prevention for 25 yrs., one of the elements of the job was profiling people. One of the trends that would raise red flags was those over stating how little they trust others. Also those who would try to sell me their personal profile by pouring honey in my ear with rumor's about another employee's questionable integrity.
At least with a machanical device I don't have to worry about about it telling me a lie, and I can easily have it examined to see if it is trust worthy to an acceptable degree. I wish people were that easy to make a reasonable determination of their decernable trust.

Fast Frank
March 21, 2011, 05:07 AM
Trust my guns?

Yes.

See, I start by looking for quality before I buy. No zinc alloys for me. Real Steel on mine please.

The reputation of the gun matters, but it's not something I'll bank on exclusively. Sure, we all know that certain guns have better reputations than others. A gun with an awesome reputation that I shoot poorly because it doesn't fit my hand (Glock) is not the one for me.

I have to check out the individual firearm before I decide it's something I want.

How do the pieces fit? I can tell a lot about a weapon by simply wiggling parts to feel for looseness and looking at air gaps. The way the action "Locks Up" when closed and how sliding parts feel when they rub on each other tells me a lot too.

I need to like the way it's designed, too. If it's well thought out and sturdy, I like it. If it's cheezy and cheap looking, I won't.

If the gun passes all the quality inspections and I buy it, then it gets extensive test firing.

I'll shoot the daylights out of the thing for a while, with all sorts of varied ammo.

The gun has to work before it's worth keeping. It's got to fire when it's supposed to, and I have to believe it won't fire when it's NOT supposed to.

I'll look at wear patterns on the pieces, and note where things are showing stress or metal is wearing off. If it looks like something is taking a beating early in the game, it probably isn't going to age well and won't be trusted by me.

If the gun gets through the test firing, and I still like it, then I'll use it for a while.

During this period, I might make changes to it. A sharp edge might get rounded off, or maybe a change of grips or sights. By this time I have found some things that are not to my liking and I'll try to rectify those things.

And then I'll shoot it some more.

Every time it's fired, it gets cleaned and inspected. Every time it gets inspected, it has to pass.

Generally, it's been a year or more before I trust a gun.

So, what constitutes trust?

When I take a gun, and load it with the specific intent of using it in a fight to the death...

I'm literally betting my life that the thing will put bullets on target at any given time regardless of conditions or circumstances.

There are a few guns that I feel good about for this. I believe they will work and I believe I can hit with them.

These guns have proved themselves to me time and time again.

These are the guns I trust.

1moa@500
March 21, 2011, 05:41 PM
trust is simple for me its performance over time. If you perform over a period of time then I trust. Its the same for guns and people

gatorjames85
March 21, 2011, 06:08 PM
I look at it in terms of odds of failure. There is always a chance of any gun failing. It is simply a matter of how big or small those odds are.

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