Pointers and Tips to being a better pistolero?


PDA






LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 21, 2011, 03:52 AM
So I'm looking for some pointers and tips, and various other tid-bits of information to make me a better pistol shooter, for both range practice and in a defensive role.

Here's how this game is going to work (really just a thread that can be used to help everyone else who are looking for some tips to get better).

I'm going to post a picture of me in my stance, holding the pistol.

Tell me what's wrong with the way I am holding the pistol, how to improve, and, if possible, post a picture of how it is supposed to be held.

It'll progress like this until all the basics are covered. Stay tuned for pictures.

If you enjoyed reading about "Pointers and Tips to being a better pistolero?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 21, 2011, 04:02 AM
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/100_1012.jpg

The reason why I use this grip:

I use this grip because it's comfortable. I don't know if it's the right way, but I like it because I also have adequate manipulation of the controls like this. My left thumb is on the de-cocker should I need to use it and it is within reach of the magazine release, and my right thumb is on the slide release, making for quick reloads. Is this grip correct? If not, what can I do different?

Remember, if possible, post pictures of the right way to hold a pistol.


*stance will come next after a sufficient amount of helpful information has been relayed on grip.

Jed Carter
March 21, 2011, 04:17 AM
Here is a link to a Todd Jarrett YouTube video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 21, 2011, 04:24 AM
Just watched and liking. However, looking for this to be an informative thread as well, with plenty of information in writing and pictures to go along with. Hopefully it gets good enough for the Moderators to make it a sticky.

9mmepiphany
March 21, 2011, 05:07 PM
I'll play:
1. Having your support index finger on the front of the trigger guard was quite the rage in the 70s, but was largely obsolete by the time manufacturers added the hooked trigger guard to guns in the 80s. It compromises the amount of grip available with your support hane and will cause your shots to print to the left as well as slow recovery for follow up shots.

2. The high thumb grip you are uses was also popular at the same time, but lasted well into the 80s and lingers to this day. It is usually a function of the stance used, but in your case appears to be at least partly the fault of your support index finger.

You might try adding the support index finger to the grip on the butt stock of the gun and straightening your wrist to point the thumb forward to optimize your grip to manage recoil. Something like this:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_2061.jpg

3. You should also try to relax your strong thumb too...it will improve your trigger press

NMGonzo
March 21, 2011, 06:14 PM
Practice shooting one handed, either hand; if by pistolero you mean a self defense shooter.

rellascout
March 21, 2011, 06:27 PM
My go to video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 21, 2011, 06:27 PM
My thumbs are both relaxed. I was using this technique last night while dryfiring and the pistol didn't move at all. It's the size of my hands and the ergo's of the gun that made me start to hold it this way, because of the funny feeling of the decocker and the slide release. I am shooting quite comfortably like this, but I will try different techniques.

9mmepiphany
March 21, 2011, 07:17 PM
It isn't a matter of the gun not moving when you dryfire, it is a matter of how it rises in recoil when after the shot is fired...if you're not concerned about follow-up shots, you could just as easily hold the gun up-side down. Notice that in the picture I posted, that the support index finger's placement isn't pushing the rest of the fingers lower on the grip, rather it is locking the support hands grip under the trigger guard.

Which gun are you practicing with and how does the placement of the de-cocker/slide stop differ from...say a Sig? It doesn't look like a Beretta and I'm not sure which other manufacturer refers to the slide stop as a slide release

Japle
March 21, 2011, 07:45 PM
This pic will give you an idea of how the gun moves during recoil and how little it matters to someone who’s really good.

B. J. Norris at last year’s Nationals.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/Japle/Guns/BJdoubletap.jpg

Ankeny
March 21, 2011, 08:37 PM
Here is a picture of (arguably) the best IPSC shooter on the planet holding the gun the wrong way.
http://www.rtconnect.net/~rankeny/STEEL_IT11.jpg

If I dig around I can also post a pic of a 10 time USPSA National Champion who also places the index finger of his support hand in front of the trigger guard. That said, both shooters teach not to place the index finger in front of the trigger guard. One of those do as I say not as I do things...:)

9mmepiphany
March 21, 2011, 09:40 PM
how little it matters to someone who’s really good.
That said, both shooters teach not to place the index finger in front of the trigger guard. One of those do as I say not as I do things...

I think you'll find that a lot of shooters from the 80s do things that they teach students not to do...original press-check, optical-sight press-check, catching last round when showing clear, 1911 magazine flip...because they know there is a better way, but they've just been doing it the old way too long.

Once you've learned to correctly press the trigger, there are a lot of things you can get away with...either because of physical traits or mechanical aids (compensator, optics)...but the goal with developing shooters is to give them a repeatable and consistent foundation to learn that ultimate skill to accurate shooting

xXxplosive
March 21, 2011, 09:53 PM
IMO...before you can address the proper pistol grip one needs to position their body properly facing the target, getting their weight distributed properly and get into the correct shooting stance / position.....then we can talk about the proper hold and pressing the trigger and sight alignment....:what:

breacher
March 21, 2011, 10:25 PM
I really believe that there is no "right" or "wrong" way to hold a pistol as long as it's safe, secure, and works best for you after trying all the alternative grips.

I've always shot with my support hand index finger on the trigger guard and I feel like it really gives me extra leverage in controlling recoil on pistols with a squared or hooked guard like a Glock. On pistols with a sloped trigger guard (S&W M&P) it really does no good because my finger tends to slide off. So that's a important consideration when pistol shopping for me.

When I went thru my police academy I had a bunch of instructors on my butt trying to change my grip although they did back off after I started shooting perfect scores and and I won the top shooter award with my "wrong" grip.

I've seen pictures of Angus Hobdell? the CZ guy shooting this way as well as other world class shooters, so how can anybody say it's wrong when so many top shooters grip a pistol like that? obviously it works!!!

0to60
March 21, 2011, 11:49 PM
I really believe that there is no "right" or "wrong" way to hold a pistol as long as it's safe, secure, and works best for you after trying all the alternative grips.

No two guys swing a bat exactly the same, no two guys swing a golf club exactly the same, runners all run differently. Guitar players all use their hands a bit differently. Tennis players swing differently.

Excellence is part art and part science. To develop the art end of things, it takes practice and development of your own, unique style.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 22, 2011, 12:16 AM
I'm using an Astra A-90. The front lever mechanism is the decocker and the rear one is the slide stop/release.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/100_0991.jpg

9mmepiphany
March 22, 2011, 12:37 AM
Those two controls aren't much different from a Sig

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_1267.jpg

You should be able to get a standard thumbs forward grip on it

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/14-strightLFthumb.jpg

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 22, 2011, 01:26 AM
I "should" be able to. But the dimensions of these on this pistol stick out a little bit and makes it a little difficult to achieve this and have it remain comfortable. I'll try posting a picture of my using the thumb forward grip.

Hangingrock
March 22, 2011, 06:10 PM
Hold/grip, trigger press and front sight all important but tell us what did you see before before closing your eyes?:what:;)

Whiskey11
March 22, 2011, 08:47 PM
Ignore for a fact that this video is the "Mall Ninja's Bible" or from Magpul Dynamics, and listen to what he has to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9uG5bPubw

As much as I hate Magpul's philosophy on the use of firearms or the premise behind all the training, there is a lot of nuggets of information like the above, in each and every one of their videos that makes too much sense not to take in as usable information. I personally use the above grip, not because it's Tactical, not because Magpul Dynamics said to, but because it works. Infact the entire first part of the Art of the Dynamic Handgun, in relation to the fundamentals of handgun shooting is filled with good information. I personally like it because sadly, it's the information that I need to know when a Self Defense or a work related situation comes up and I need to draw and shoot my XD. Does it make perfect sense for target shooting, probably not, but the important part is that the information provided is what our natural body will tend to do when that time comes to draw in Self Defense or in Defense of Others, and we all know it's often best to practice the way you intend to compete, and if you see SD as a competition in which your life is at stake, it makes absolute perfect sense to practice that way. :)

I'm sure you could find their segments on stance, trigger control, breath control, and follow through on Youtube, or you could rent the DVD's or find a more "tactical" inclined friend who obsesses over these videos and borrow it from them just long enough to watch it. Some of the stuff I personally don't agree with the methodology, but for the most part, it is sound for everything but range duty, but like I said, practice the way you compete, train like you where in a fight, if that is why you are shooting handguns. I'm sure it has some practical insight for competition shooting too, not just SD.

Ankeny
March 22, 2011, 09:57 PM
...but they've just been doing it the old way too long. The pic I posted is of Eric Grauffel. :)

rellascout
March 22, 2011, 10:02 PM
He has been shooting since he was 10.... won competitions at 15. That means he as been doing his thing for 20+ years and 15+ at a high level. 12 years since his first world championship.

I call 20 years a long time.... do be doing anything at that high a level. When did he learn? 20 years ago. I think muscle memory is working against him if he wants to make drastic changes in what he does. :D

9mmepiphany
March 23, 2011, 12:45 AM
...but they've just been doing it the old way too long. The pic I posted is of Eric Grauffel

I know...I was referring to the part of my sentence just before the part you cut out:

original press-check, optical-sight press-check, catching last round when showing clear, 1911 magazine flip

bds
March 23, 2011, 01:28 AM
For me, an effective grip is better established using all of the support hand fingers under the trigger guard.

Check out these videos - both endorse support hand fingers under the trigger guard:

Todd Jarrett (at 1:00 minute mark) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

USAMU - http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/ProTips/Sept-08/protips.html

Ankeny
March 27, 2011, 03:04 PM
The point I was trying to make is some very accomplished pistol shooters may use a technique other than the specific method they teach because it works for them. Yeah, I know the most proven method is the place to start...but there is nothing wrong with fine tuning individual technique if you have a reason to do so.

I know it is easier to do things "right" the first time than it is to break bad habits after they are ingrained. But, it is possible to to change technique even after thousands of repetitions and decades of shooting.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
March 27, 2011, 06:02 PM
Sorry, Ihaven't been able to keep up this post with more pictures. I've been a little busy with overtime at work. More pics to come!

If you enjoyed reading about "Pointers and Tips to being a better pistolero?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!