BP paper cartridges for a muzzleloading shotgun?


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Busyhands94
March 24, 2011, 07:59 PM
has anybody tried anything like that? it seems like an interesting concept and worth trying. i assume it would be a bit complicated but you maybe could get some large thin paper, and find a way to seal the powder, overpowder wad, shot, and overshot wad in one package. heck, if i had a BP shotgun i would try it! so my question is, can it be done?

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Capt. Redbeard
March 24, 2011, 08:33 PM
There's been some posts on that most people use cigarette rolling papers. I've tried it once but yet to fire any. I'll try and find the thread about it and post it on here.

Capt. Redbeard
March 24, 2011, 08:46 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=577607&highlight=Rolling+papers
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144094&highlight=Rolling+papers

The second link has the good photos, and best description.

nalioth
March 24, 2011, 09:01 PM
You guys are to be commended for your info, but the OP wants to know about doing this with shotguns - not pistols or rifles.

Who makes a rolling paper that'll roll into a 12ga-sized package?

BHP FAN
March 24, 2011, 09:08 PM
look at buck and ball loads for the Civil War large smooth bore muskets. many were in arsenals on both sides, often converted over from flint.my Great grand pa wrote about them in his letters home.The large smoothbores were pretty much shotguns, and I think the buck and ball loads would be just as deadly in say, a muzzle loading double barrel.

BHP FAN
March 24, 2011, 09:14 PM
http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_and_ball

BCRider
March 25, 2011, 02:09 AM
Now THIS is a great idea! ! ! !

Having said that opening line I have no idea if anyone already has a way to do it. But I have some ideas to try.

First off there's any number of natural fiber tissue papers out there that are bigger and would replace rolling papers that are used on ball or mini ball rounds for rifles. All we need is something that burns "clean". That shouldn't be hard with all the tissue options.

Secondly it should not be all that hard to make up a "mold" that lets you form a tissue cup then load it with powder, wad, shot and overshot wads of plastic or card stock.

For loading since you need to expose the powder to the incoming burning embers from the cap I'd say that you want a paper cartridge that allows you to tear the powder portion open and pour the contents, or most of the contents, into the barrel before inserting the wad and shot portion and ramming it home. I'd say that some experimental work to produce a wad in multiple card stock layers that lets you use a conical ended ram rod to force the under and overshot wads into a bit of a conical shape so they fit into the barrel but then lock in place once seated would be needed.

Capt. Redbeard
March 25, 2011, 03:43 PM
I realise he was interested in shotgun, I also realised those posts were for rifle/pistol. I was merely trying to get some ideas to begin with.

wittzo
March 26, 2011, 09:43 AM
I make packets of shot using old phone book pages. I make a tube and crimp it like a roll of coins on one end. I seal that with a glue stick so it won't come undone. The other end I tuck and fold like a traditional paper cartridge from the Civil War. It wouldn't be a problem at all to make a papercartridge so you can tear it open and pour in the powder then drop the shot packet in. If you ram it snug, the paper packet acts like an overpowder wad and a shotcard.

Jaymo
March 26, 2011, 10:15 AM
What wittzo said.
I've rolled my own paper shot carts for the Howdah using that white paper that Cabelas loves to use as packing material.
First, I make it into a paper tube with one end twisted or folded/crimped over.
I then add my measured powder charge.
Then, I twist the powder filled end closed and add my shot charge.
Then, I fold/crimp/glue it shut.
To load, I tear open the powder end and dump the powder into the barrel.
Then, I ram the rest of it down the barrel.

I've also made paper tubes with the end twisted or folded/crimped over, and just filled them with shot and twist or fold/crimp the other end.
In this case, I load the powder from a powder measure, straight into the barrels.
Then, I ram down the paper shot cartridges.

Either one seems to work as well as anything.
I do need to nitrate the paper, though. It sucks having to walk around stomping out flaming paper after shooting.:what:

Or maybe you could get some of those blunt wrappers I see the hood-rats buying at the gas stations.
Instead of filling them with stupid-weed, you could make paper carts from them.

Or, you could buy flash paper.

wittzo
March 26, 2011, 11:50 AM
I use old phonebooks because they're free. The larger rolling papers necessary to make a load of shot are expensive where I am.

I do like using rolling papers for the buck and ball payload because of the convenience of the glue on the edge and how it holds a twist without tearing like newsprint/phonebook paper.

Another cool thing is that new(?) Lee mold for buckshot where the shot is stacked in columns of three balls. You just drop in however many columns you want to use in your shell or in the paper packet and drop it down the bore.

Busyhands94
March 26, 2011, 03:06 PM
i am actually thinking about getting one of those molds, i need it to be close to .22 caliber.

Loyalist Dave
March 28, 2011, 10:39 AM
I have used rolled paper cartridges for years in my muskets for blanks and live fire. For my Pedersoli 20 gauge SxS I simply used them in a smaller version, made with good bond paper. The compressed cartridge tube makes a good wad, and I ram down newsprint cartridges filled with shot on top of the powder and wad, which allows me quick reloads, with pre-measured amounts, and functions quite well.

for cartridge making see:
Cartridge Page 1 (http://www.najecki.com/40thfoot/Cartridge1.html)


LD

higene
March 28, 2011, 11:40 AM
This months Handloader Magazine has an article on loading paper hulls with BP which is not what you're talking about, but, which may interest some folks.

:scrutiny:

moose owner
March 28, 2011, 12:44 PM
I make paper shot cartridges for hunting with my muzzle loading shotgun. They are loosely based on the Eley Universal Cartridge. Generally, I carry the the shot cartridge in a protective paper tube which also contains the loose powder charge. I have never tired enclosing the powder in nitrated paper, but it is something which you could try.

Here is how I make and carry the shot cartridges:
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/makingmuzzleloadingshotcartridges
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/takingmuzzleloadingshotcartridgesintothefield

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