Military Shooting Qualification


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giggitygiggity
March 25, 2011, 09:36 AM
I was wondering if anyone knows the qualification course of fire for the different military branches for rifle and pistol as well as any other weapons systems? Also, please don't hesitate to post about just U.S. military range qualifications, but foreign as well. If you know what the cutoffs are for marksman, sharpshooter, and expert, please list those as well. Thank you.

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CelticArmory
March 25, 2011, 02:45 PM
You can find the military manuals online and even the .MIL sites often have the course of fire available for the enlisted to review before hitting the range. You'll need some targets and you can also find those online. The manuals should list what the scoring levels are like. If I could remember the manuals I would list them, but I know they change frequently.

JohnBiltz
March 25, 2011, 05:52 PM
Rifle, tables of fire are usually in the appendixes.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/index.html

Pistol
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-35/index.html

Manuals, the 3 series of manuals are weapons you can find the ones for machine guns if you want.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/index.html

jcwit
March 25, 2011, 05:59 PM
Did my last qualification back in the 60's with a 30 cal pencil.

hermannr
March 25, 2011, 08:00 PM
The fun one I did was the German Army qual. Rifle, pistol, machine gun, and machine pistol. this was late 60's early 70's. The neighboring Panzer division shot our qual with our weapons, and we shot theirs with their weapons. It was a lot of fun.

The full auto weapons where the hardest. they gave you 15 rounds, full auto, and you had to hit five different targets with those 15 rounds, with at least 1 round in each of the five in the black. The machinegun was at a 1000m simulated target. That was just to get your minimum (bronze) qual. To get the gold you had to put all 15 rounds in the black on the 5 targets....talk about trigger control (yes I did qualify on all their weapons)

Hk Dan
March 25, 2011, 09:18 PM
The USMC does 200 yards, 5 rounds sitting, kneeling, and off hand, followed by 10 rounds rapid fire, standing to sitting with one reload.

300 yards 5 rounds sitting, 10 rounds rapid fire, standing to prone with one reload.

500 yards--10 rounds prone, slow fire.

PedalBiker
March 25, 2011, 09:28 PM
I had several different courses of fire over the years for M-16, depending on the facilities available. Some of them were even shot with .22LR adapters. Some were paper targets, some plastic drop down. Some shot from foxholes, some at inside ranges, some at civilian police ranges.

If you ask me, there's no substitute for outdoor ranges with a variety of distances (25 - 300 yards for Basic Training).

The hand grenade course was pretty fun as well. I don't remember all the details anymore.

LensWork
March 25, 2011, 11:37 PM
The USMC does 200 yards, 5 rounds sitting, kneeling, and off hand, followed by 10 rounds rapid fire, standing to sitting with one reload.

300 yards 5 rounds sitting, 10 rounds rapid fire, standing to prone with one reload.

500 yards--10 rounds prone, slow fire.
It's been decades since I qualified, but that's what I recall.

I can still remember the first day of rifle training in boot camp, the instructor saying "The maximum effective range of the M-16A1 is 460 meters; the Army only qualifies out to 300 meters, but since we are Marines, and we are better than the Army, you will qualify at the maximum effective range, 460 meters".

Dulvarian
March 26, 2011, 12:28 AM
Navy just kind of hands them out.

twofifty
March 26, 2011, 12:32 AM
Sorry for hijack.
I'll start another thread.

Dulvarian
March 26, 2011, 11:53 AM
If you think I am kidding, I am not. Both are done locally here at a 25yard indoor range. For a fee.

There are 5 ranges on the base.

threefeathers
March 26, 2011, 12:05 PM
Military qualification is set at the lowest level possible for general qualification. Many military posts have allowed additional courses set up by professional instructors. SFC (RET) Southard at Ft. Huachuca, James Yeager at Camp Pendleton, and others.
Mas Ayoob just finished a MAG 40 and MAG 80 class in Sierra Vista and over half the participants in each were active duty or deployable reservists.
FAS in Seattle has a fairly large number of military from Ft. Lewis and Bremerton. The problem is the training at a number of posts is approved by folks who never saw combat.

Bonesinium
March 26, 2011, 12:29 PM
Air Force
M-16

50 rounds, 10 different sized silhouettes on one target at 25 meters.
1 round fired at each of the silhouettes from each of the 5 different positions.
Standing
Kneeling
Prone supported
Prone unsupported
Prone unsupported with gas mask

I think you only needed a measly 20 to qualify or something ridiculously low. 42 I believe got you expert.

M9

45 rounds
1 human sized silhouette with circles in the head and CoM
7 meters
15 meters
25 meters

6 rounds standing at 7 meters, 2 in head and 4 in CoM. Circles are just barely visable if at all.
33 rounds standing at 15 meters, 11 in head, 22 in CoM. Circles not visable when shooting.
6 rounds kneeling at 25 meters, all CoM.

All shooting sequences are done shooting 3 rounds at a time, 2 to chest 1 to head, (all 3 to chest at 25m) with the first shot in double action.

25 hits anywhere on the paper (not just in the circles) to qualify. 7 hits in head circle, 25 hits in CoM circle, and at least 42 of 45 on paper for expert.

Viper
March 26, 2011, 01:45 PM
The USMC does 200 yards, 5 rounds sitting, kneeling, and off hand, followed by 10 rounds rapid fire, standing to sitting with one reload.

300 yards 5 rounds sitting, 10 rounds rapid fire, standing to prone with one reload.

500 yards--10 rounds prone, slow fire.

I was in the Navy but qualified on a Marine range in 1960. We used M1's and 1911 45's for qualifying at 200 yds and 10 yds and A M1 carbine at 100 yds.

The fun part was that we also got to shoot BAR's, 30 cal MG's, Thompsons, and M14's and M15's [remember that one]. The 14's and 15's were new and experimental with the 14's being semis and the 15 full auto. Later they combined them into one rifle.

Edmond
March 26, 2011, 03:58 PM
Army basic, I want to say it was 40 rounds total: 20 prone supported, 10 prone unsupported and 10 kneeling.

24 was qualification, 33 was the next step and then 37 was the next cut. I can't remember what each step was as Officers do not wear marksmanship badges.

That was with iron sights but I'm not sure if they use the ACOG or M68 for IN OSUT. I do know the IN OSUT uses the M4, though while we got M16A2's.

Outside of the school house, you'll most likely use an optic of some sort. Last time I qualified, it was with a red chevron ACOG on an M4.

willypete
March 26, 2011, 06:44 PM
Navy:

Wake up with a splitting headache from drinking a fifth of Wild Turkey the night before (~4 hrs ago). Scrape face, throw on least-smelliest utilities and haul-@$$ to morning muster. get on board 17 passenger van with broken heater/ac and wait for 2 hours because the torpedomen lost their guns again.

Get to range around 9 am (sorry, 0900, it's been 3 years). Raid vending machine for anything with carbohydrates to soak out the poisons brewing in your gut.

Bust thumbs for half hour loading magazines with weak metric European cartridge suitable for putting down small dogs, the French, and any other neighbors Germany might have, then unloading them when the Senior Chief torpedoman figures out you loaded too many. Reload the magazines you shouldn't have unloaded after all.

Toss cookies from hyperglycemic shock due to a cruel mixture of twinkies and bourbon and the indoor range temperature being either 87 or 42 degrees Fahrenheit.

Make it out to the range, where you will be yelled at by a fat man in brown pants and shirt who drinks coffee all day. Piss off the local range bosses by insisting that yes, Weaver really is ok and you can shoot just fine with it.

Wonder at the cooks as they shoot sideways ala TV-gangsters and hit both targets to either side, but not their own. Get yelled at by the fat man in brown clothes for shooting a smiley face in your target's head. Rationalize it by pointing out that target is only 25 yards away. Suffer guffaws of unbelief from city slickers in unit.

Hang another target because fat man in brown clothes threatens to perform anatomically impossible feats with your head and neck while making you clean the darkest bilge on the boat. Shoot CoM of this target. Retrieve target, score target (240). Regurgitate remaining twinkies after scoring target.





180+ is marksman, 204+ is sharpshooter, 228+ is expert.

kis2
March 26, 2011, 08:07 PM
^awesome

THEZACHARIAS
March 26, 2011, 09:29 PM
Air Force

http://www.jesseshunting.com/images/battle_mug_ar15.jpg

If you can pour the beer into the mug, you qualify. If you manage not to spill any, you're an expert.

HorseSoldier
March 26, 2011, 10:40 PM
Military qualification is set at the lowest level possible for general qualification.

That's the truth. And the standard military qualification courses are not about gunfighting, they're about low stress shooting with minimal manipulation requirements and very forgiving ones at that. (Even the army's reactive fire course -- while better than the USMC's antiquated fascination with NRA high power -- isn't about gunfighting.) The army's pistol qual course has one mag change built into it . . . and they give you eight seconds to just change the mag. Post-military on the LEO side my department's course of fire expects you to fire, reload, and finish the engagement in rather significantly less time than the army allows for just swapping the mags with no other tasks involved.

James Yeager at Camp Pendleton

Really? Tactical Response runs some good courses, but I'm surprised that Yeager's lack of .mil qualifications and contentious PMC career got them eligible for that. Vickers, Kyle Lamb and Paul Howe all had something better to do?

threefeathers
March 27, 2011, 01:11 AM
I'm surprised that Yeager is there also, but one of his instructors is a close freind who just finished Ayoob's MAG 40 course. He showed me mucho pics of them training folks at Pendleton.

We had a Marine MSG at the MAG 40 course also.

d2wing
March 27, 2011, 07:12 PM
Sure has changed from 1960's. If my memory is correct we shot the M-14 to 600 meters, M-16 to 400 meters, and I don't recall the range on the M60. I was one of the few guys in any unit I was in to actually qualify with the M60. The first time I held an M-60 it was pitch dark. They left me in a ditch with it ( In Germany during a uprising somewhere else) and I was supposed to guard a crossroads. At the time I had no idea what I was holding or how to use it. I could not see it at all. I figured it out at dawn.
We also has quick kill training, bayonet and manual of arms.

gathert
March 27, 2011, 09:23 PM
If that Battle Mug wasnt $280 dollars, I would own it.

devildog4329
March 28, 2011, 01:24 AM
For the USMC they have updated their qualifications alot over the last few years. Right before i got out in '07 the startes the combat qual on the range. They also made us qualify on the EMP (Enhanced Marksmanship Program) range. This was from 7 to 50 yards and included speed reloades, run then shoots for stress, spin drills, and closing drills.

The USMC is moving in the right direction and setting away from the highpower match style shooting. I believe this is still used to produce cutting scores and that they havnt figured out how to add anything else into the score.

gun addict
March 28, 2011, 02:10 AM
USMC's rifle qual has 4 "quals", number 1 and number 2's scores adds on to rate weather you're an "expert", "sharpshooter" or "marksman " (pizzabox)

1. 200 yard, 300 yard, and 500 yards shooting from various positions
2. 8 shots at a moving target at 100 yards, 25 yards shooting including speed reload, hammer pair, control pair yada yada

cant exactly remember qual 3 and 4 but alot of it involves "ID", "step", "gun" or night qual shoot with the POS NVGs

MarkDido
March 29, 2011, 08:27 PM
Posted by WillyPete

Navy:

Wake up with a splitting headache from drinking a fifth of Wild Turkey the night before (~4 hrs ago). Scrape face, throw on least-smelliest utilities and haul-@$$ to morning muster. get on board 17 passenger van with broken heater/ac and wait for 2 hours because the torpedomen lost their guns again.

Get to range around 9 am (sorry, 0900, it's been 3 years). Raid vending machine for anything with carbohydrates to soak out the poisons brewing in your gut.

Bust thumbs for half hour loading magazines with weak metric European cartridge suitable for putting down small dogs, the French, and any other neighbors Germany might have, then unloading them when the Senior Chief torpedoman figures out you loaded too many. Reload the magazines you shouldn't have unloaded after all.

Toss cookies from hyperglycemic shock due to a cruel mixture of twinkies and bourbon and the indoor range temperature being either 87 or 42 degrees Fahrenheit.

Make it out to the range, where you will be yelled at by a fat man in brown pants and shirt who drinks coffee all day. Piss off the local range bosses by insisting that yes, Weaver really is ok and you can shoot just fine with it.

Wonder at the cooks as they shoot sideways ala TV-gangsters and hit both targets to either side, but not their own. Get yelled at by the fat man in brown clothes for shooting a smiley face in your target's head. Rationalize it by pointing out that target is only 25 yards away. Suffer guffaws of unbelief from city slickers in unit.

Hang another target because fat man in brown clothes threatens to perform anatomically impossible feats with your head and neck while making you clean the darkest bilge on the boat. Shoot CoM of this target. Retrieve target, score target (240). Regurgitate remaining twinkies after scoring target.





180+ is marksman, 204+ is sharpshooter, 228+ is expert.

Dude!

Didn't I see you face down outside the Daiquiri Palace in Palma?

;)

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