Looking for a good Mouse Gun


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Jabr0ney
March 28, 2011, 06:54 PM
I'm looking to buy a mouse gun for my ccw, i live in south florida and dont wear the clothes that allow me to conceal bigger. I'm only 21 so i mainly where jeans and a t shirt.

After reading about some mouse guns, ive seen things saying some break after 150 shots and the manufacturer claims its because they aren't meant for shooting a lot.

Basically im looking for one that i can shoot A LOT and isnt more than 400-500. The cheaper the better but it needs to be durable.

And im not starting a discussion thread on whether they are adequate for defense, just asking a question about which one. Any caliber shot to the face/neck at close range will give you enough time to get away.

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W.E.G.
March 28, 2011, 06:59 PM
Glock 26

Barely over your budget, and worth it.

CoRoMo
March 28, 2011, 07:00 PM
Keep your money in Florida and buy a Kel Tec.

Jabr0ney
March 28, 2011, 07:03 PM
Ive been looking at the P-11, are there good reviews about that? Does it last with a lot of rounds through it? I plan to shoot thousands

Jabr0ney
March 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
Also the keltec .32 and .380 look like what im looking for. Anyone have experience with them?

Remo223
March 28, 2011, 07:27 PM
the ruger costs more but is nicer.

X-Rap
March 28, 2011, 07:29 PM
I can't think of a mouse gun that I want to shoot thousands of times, why would you do that?

Remo223
March 28, 2011, 07:30 PM
does a 32 caliber CZ count as a mouse gun? it's not small.

eddism
March 28, 2011, 07:31 PM
Any 1911 would be good.

Jabr0ney
March 28, 2011, 07:44 PM
why would i want to shoot it a lot? So i know it like the back of my hand

Davejb
March 28, 2011, 07:51 PM
Neither a Glock 26 nor a 1911 is even close to a mouse gun.

To the OP, your not gonna want to shoot thousands of rounds, mouse guns are designed for the purpose of easy concealment, they usually do not make good range guns.

rellascout
March 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
CM9... $419 shipped.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/76/76031.jpg

DesertVet
March 28, 2011, 08:00 PM
I have & have carried a Colt Pony Pocket Lite .380 and a Walther PPK .380 in hot weather but have not been impressed by 380 Auto's stopping power..I carry a Smith model 60 .38spl, a Smith & Wesson Model 640 .38spl, or a Smith & Wesson m 342 AirLite Titanium model

skoro
March 28, 2011, 08:03 PM
Also the keltec .32 and .380 look like what im looking for. Anyone have experience with them?

My daughter has the P32 and I carry a P3AT on occasion. Both are very easy to conceal. They've been absolutely reliable.

bannockburn
March 28, 2011, 08:03 PM
I bought a KelTec P3-AT just to carry during the summer months when shorts and a t-shirt are pretty much my every day attire. It's small and lightweight enough to qualify as a Mouse Gun, but in a caliber I at least feel comfortable with. I don't really want to carry anything smaller in caliber (.25 or .22), so for now the P3-AT (or Ruger LCP), would be my recommendation as a good Mouse Gun.

Davejb
March 28, 2011, 08:03 PM
"have not been impressed by 380 Auto's stopping power"?

Have you shot alot of advancing bad guys with a 380?

Johnny Lightning
March 28, 2011, 08:10 PM
If you want a gun you can shoot alot and is compact get a Glock 26 or one of the XD compact pistols in 9mm. 9mm is cheap to buy or reload and is alot less snappy then the .40 cal. If you want a "mouse gun" get a used LCP or P3AT but I would not suggest shooting them alot...not exactly nice comfortable shooting pistols but they are great conceal pieces. If you want a mid to full sized pistol that you can shoot a WHOLE LOT the sky is the limit but I would suggest a Glock 17 or 19 (19 is a great range and conceal gun), or the S&W M&P, or even the Rugers are nice. Don't be afraid to buy a used pistol just make sure you check them over well. I have purchased my last 3 pistols used and have not had one issue after shooting hundreds of rounds through each of them.

Kendal Black
March 28, 2011, 08:21 PM
You're already getting plenty of advice on guns. I'm going to advise you on your pants. Jeans are the worst pants going for pocket carry. You will get better concealment from Dockers, or chinos, or khakis, or something like that. Or, if you get the pants with the big cargo pockets, you can hide a bazooka in there.

DesertVet
March 28, 2011, 08:27 PM
Davejb -
No I have not fired at advancing bad guys with a 380 but I have fired 9mms in combat and was not impressed with IT'S stopping power...as a Police officer for most of the past 18 years I have seen the effects of a number of handgun rounds with the 380 not having been one of the more "leathal" rounds.....also I have used the 380 to dispatch wounded animals while on-duty and have been disappointed in it's effectiveness.
I normally carry a Glock 27 or Colt Officer's ACP in hot weather but if I MUST carry something even more discreet...I usually opt for J-frame .38 with hottest loads.

gpr
March 28, 2011, 08:30 PM
yes....support your local business...cdnn had kt's for $200...that's hard to say no to, for the best customer service....you can buy more than one at that price...gary

DesertVet
March 28, 2011, 08:32 PM
Mini Glock 26 or 27? I normally carry one in a Desantis pocket holster in front pocket or cargo pocket of shorts in hot weather? Not much larger then some of the other options in smaller less potent calibers.

Thompsoncustom
March 28, 2011, 08:32 PM
I always thought this would make a great mouse gun for the size and price... and it happens to come with a lifetime warranty if I remember right.

http://www.flarms.com/4sale/phoenixarms22/3.JPG

ATBackPackin
March 28, 2011, 08:38 PM
I have a Kahr CW9, but if I wanted something smaller I would have zero qualms getting a Kahr CM9 (http://www.kahr.com/PDF/CM9093r2.pdf). Bud's (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_51/products_id/76031) has them for $417.

Shawn

PcolaDawg
March 28, 2011, 08:40 PM
Take it from a fellow Floridian, you owe it to yourself to check out this little bad boy:

http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/44382/2321708950102497756S600x600Q85.jpg

It comes with a built in laser sight, it's well designed, rugged, small, and very accurate with or without the laser. The Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380. Should be able to pick one up for about $400.00, and it'll fit real well in your front pocket.

X-Rap
March 28, 2011, 08:40 PM
why would i want to shoot it a lot? So i know it like the back of my hand
That is a noble goal but you will tire of it before the gun does. There is only so much you will learn from shooting a small gun of mediocre accuracy most of which is how to endure pain and develope bad shooting habits.
I say this because you expressed the wish to shoot "thousands" of rounds. I shoot a few mags through my 380 a month and that along with it being my pretty much constant companion I feel I know it like the back of my hand.
Shooting is fun and I would definitely suggest a good 22 or 9mm to shoot a great deal the latter being a fine carry option especially when you were more clothes.

almherdfan
March 28, 2011, 08:58 PM
Perhaps a NAA Black Widow in .22/.22wmr.

The .380 "mouse" guns aren't much fun to shoot much (been there, done that). If you can, check out the Kel Tec P11 or the new Ruger LC9. I don't like the trigger on the KT & haven't shot the Ruger but both have plenty of fans.

I pocket carried a Bersa Thunder CC for the last year. It was pleasant to shot, easy to carry. I've switched to a Ruger SR9c in large part because 9mm is just cheaper to shoot & a little more potent.

rellascout
March 28, 2011, 09:01 PM
I have a Kahr CW9, but if I wanted something smaller I would have zero qualms getting a Kahr CM9

I hope they are at the same level as the CW9. If they are they stay on top of that market. IHMO

But there still is that if.....

MICHAEL T
March 28, 2011, 09:09 PM
have 4 KelTecs in my house I carry the 380 a lot in pocket. Wife like her P-32 as do my daughters.

I have carried my Colt Agent in my pocket . not best but can be done

ATBackPackin
March 28, 2011, 09:15 PM
Rella, I agree and feel fairly confident they will be mostly because it's not a new design. Just downgrading the PM a little bit and honestly for me it's nothing I can't do without.

Shawn

bikemutt
March 28, 2011, 09:27 PM
If possible, see about renting a few examples at the local gun range, at least that way you'll know what you are getting into before spending cash. If I had to shoot 1000s of rounds though a .380acp mouser I'd probably give up shooting and go back to horses since they mostly don't kick, mostly :D

Frozen North
March 28, 2011, 09:30 PM
I had a Ruger LCP for about a year. It was very reliable (no failures at all), surprisingly accurate for its size, and easy to field strip and clean. It disappeared completely in the pocket of every pair of pants I own.

It was awful to shoot, the sights were pointless, and the trigger pull was long and heavy.

NOT a fun range toy, but a reliable "point and shoot" gun for close up problems. Most self defense shootings are up close and personal, so I feel this pistol is a viable option. If you want a fun range gun that you can carry and practice with often, stay away from the micro .380 options. YMMV, but they are no fun at all to shoot.

I carry a G26 90% of the time. It is small and very concealable, but don't let folks fool ya, it's too big for pocket carry. It is nice to have a pocket pistol, and I am starting to regret selling my LCP. Look into an Air Weight Smith J frame. They are deceivingly small in your pocket despite their actual size.

UcanRun
March 28, 2011, 11:25 PM
i just traded my ruger lcp and bought a kahr pm9. im only 25 and also wear jeans almost all of the time and its fits in the pocket very well and is a 9mm instead of a .380.

stanmo
March 28, 2011, 11:27 PM
If you're going to be gettin' sweaty down there, check out a Seecamp 32, just cuz it's stainless. You won't find anything much lighter than the P-32 though.

thoricuncle
March 28, 2011, 11:53 PM
I just bought a Taurus TCP and really like it.

It is identical to the Keltec and the LCP except it has a slide lock and last round hold open.

It's actually not too bad to shoot. I can't say I "enjoy" shooting it but practicing with it is not unpleasant.

+1 on the Phoenix HP 22. Not as a carry gun but as a practice gun. I have both the 3" and 5" barrel and have put 100's of rounds through it. It's a great gun to get the kids used to handguns. Make sure and replace the recoil spring every 1000 rounds or so. The frame has a tendency to crack.

Jabr0ney
March 29, 2011, 10:46 AM
ive looked at the seecamps but do they last?

rellascout
March 29, 2011, 10:57 AM
ive looked at the seecamps but do they last?

Yes because they are not fun to shoot. :)

CoRoMo
March 29, 2011, 01:52 PM
Ive been looking at the P-11, are there good reviews about that? Does it last with a lot of rounds through it?
Yes and Yes.

I carry one every day. It is not what I consider a "mouse gun" though. I suppose it would fit in large pockets, but I carry it holster IWB. It's a great and flawless gun. Before you buy one though, handle one and try out the trigger. That is usually what makes or breaks the deal for most anyone looking at this pistol.

snooperman
March 29, 2011, 04:23 PM
Especially the light weight 380. These guns are made to carry often and shoot very little. You may want to think in terms of a 32ACP Seecamp. A quality mouse gun that is fun to shoot often and easy to carry. Otherwise, get a 38 special Ruger LCR or S&W 642. Before you leap into this try shooting several boxes at the range with a 380 mouse gun first and then you can make a good decision.

Nushif
March 29, 2011, 04:48 PM
You will get better concealment from Dockers, or chinos, or khakis, or something like that. Or, if you get the pants with the big cargo pockets, you can hide a bazooka in there.


I can hide a PT911 in my Cargo Shorts. Cargo PAnts are not only stylish and pratical (especially paired with a Beretta Hat and nice T-Shirt) but they are absolutely *excellent* for carrying.

Dogguy
March 29, 2011, 04:50 PM
Beretta 21A in .22 LR.

(Aim for sinus cavities.)

jimk0512
March 30, 2011, 12:53 AM
Also the keltec .32 and .380 look like what im looking for. Anyone have experience with them?

Yes, I've owned a keltec .32 for a few years. I've put a lot of ammo through it (over a thousand rounds of cheap Priv Partizan and Fiocchi FMJ). No recoil to speak of, painless to shoot fifty rounds in one range visit. Unbreakable in my experience. In my opinion one of the best mouse guns.

Jabr0ney
March 30, 2011, 12:58 AM
jimk0512

Do you feel comfortable with a .32 for your main carry? or do you use it as a BUG

jimk0512
March 30, 2011, 01:19 AM
Do you feel comfortable with a .32 for your main carry? or do you use it as a BUG

My .32 is my main carry during the hot weather. New Mexico law says only one concealed carry handgun. So a BUG is not legal here, at least for civilians.

Old Fuff
March 30, 2011, 01:40 PM
Some additional information is needed. :confused:

If you want to shoot a lot, ammunition cost may have to be considered.

You say "mouse gun," which means small, but in terms of size where do you draw the line?

If I was looking for a pistol that used the most affordable ammunition I would pick something that was chambered in 9mm Parabellum/Luger

But in that case the pistol might be too large for what you have in mind. Don't make the mistake of picking a platform that's too light or small for the intended cartridge.

For a smaller pistol using inexpensive ammunition consider something chambered in .22 Long Rifle. Skilled markmanship will make up for the disadvantages of the small caliber cartrridge.

Jabr0ney
March 30, 2011, 01:45 PM
Would a .22 even be worth carrying as a primary? Although i did see this one video pointing out that no matter what caliber, if your close range and empty a magazine on their head/neck, it will stop them for sure. Opinions on carrying anything lower than a .32?

yeti
March 30, 2011, 01:48 PM
I guess my advice would be similar to a lot of other 'choosing a gun' thread replies, go to a range that rents several of the guns of interest and let the mouse pick the one it is most comfortable with. I wouldn't let a mouse choose a gun for me and I am not going to presume the mouse will approve of the weapon I select for it.

Mooseman
March 30, 2011, 02:07 PM
I carry a P-11 daily with the frame clip. Very easy to conceal/carry even in jeans because I don't need a holster. The sights and trigger are not conducive to frequent range visits, just enough to keep me proficient. For price, conceal-ability, and power it's hard to beat the Kel-Tec. For a gun that's a bit more expensive, a bit bulkier but more of a pleasure to shoot then you might want to look into the subcompact Glocks.

ET
March 30, 2011, 02:12 PM
I have a Taurus TCP which has been a good bug gun, but if I was buying a bug gun right now it would probably be the Kahr CW9 or the smaller 380acp. version. Those look like high quality guns at good prices to me.

Old Fuff
March 30, 2011, 02:17 PM
Would a .22 even be worth carrying as a primary? Although i did see this one video pointing out that no matter what caliber, if your close range and empty a magazine on their head/neck, it will stop them for sure. Opinions on carrying anything lower than a .32?

It depends on the size of the handgun, and "mouse gun" is not a precise term.

Concerning the .22 cartridge. There is a vast difference between what is sometimes done in the real world, and opinions offered by members of Internet forums.

Bill Jordan, who was famous for his fast draw / hip level shooting, was a border patrolman in Texas, and as a result his views were more related to experience then theory. For a back-up gun he recommended a lightweight S&W J-frame chambered in .22 WMR. :what:

Of course his primary sidearm was usually a S&W .357 Magnum, and he was in all contexts an highly qualified combat marksman.

In this case it is hard to say what the O.P. should do without knowing more about what he has in mind. Those that follow the Old Fuff should know by now that his suggestions often don't follow conventional thinking. :uhoh:

Jabr0ney
March 30, 2011, 05:54 PM
Mooseman

Does using just the kel-tec clip ever worry you though since the trigger isnt protected? And do you usually just clip it IWB? Im looking more for something i can toss in my pocket of my cargo pants

jbr
March 30, 2011, 06:01 PM
+1 for the Taurus 738 - light - accurate - not painfull to shoot - good trigger. Pt 709 the same - the sights on the 738 will fool you - they don't look like much - but they seem to work well

Jabr0ney
March 30, 2011, 08:43 PM
Do you have personal experience with the taurus 738? reliability?

Mooseman
March 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
Jabroney, I'm not worried in the least about the trigger on the P-11 not being covered. The trigger is very heavy and long which acts as a safety. This is the main reason I don't consider it a good range gun. I wear mine IWB with a belt, I personally don't care for pocket carry but that's just my preference. I would think the P-11 is a bit too heavy for it but the PF-9 or P3AT would probably be doable with a pocket holster. I figure the P32 would do it easily.

jbr
March 31, 2011, 09:59 AM
Jabr0ney, I have put about 600-700 rounds thru my 738 with little to no trouble. Twice I have had the trigger go limp but I am pretty sure that was me not letting the trigger out all the way for proper reset. In each case all I did was rack the slide and it fired so i am pretty sure that was me. I had one instance where the slide did not return to full battery - since that only happened once and after 100 plus rounds it was probably related to ammo or being dirty. I have found the gun very reliable and very accurate. Last week I put approx. 24 rounds in the head of a silhouette at 10 yards with all hitting the target and three on the lines around the head and three a little low in the neck firing at a pretty rapid clip. That is about as good as I can do with any small gun.

Jabr0ney
March 31, 2011, 11:09 AM
How easy is the 738 to conceal? It's it small enough for a front pocket carry?

cls12vg30
March 31, 2011, 11:50 AM
I haven't compared them side-by-side, but when I held a 738 it seemed slightly taller than a KT P3-AT, which is perfectly suited for pocket carry. So I would think the 738 would be great in a pocket. In fact, I think all the tiny .380s were designed with pocket carry in mind.

Johnny Lightning
March 31, 2011, 07:36 PM
I did not have a good experience w/ the Taurus TCP 738. I had the version w/ the stainless slide and had ALOT of Jams w/ this pistol. I ended up selling it for a used LCP and couldn't be happier. If you want to shoot alot really consider the Glock 26 or 19, they are small enough to conceal, are GREAT range guns, and are cheap to shoot since they are 9mm. The only down side to the 26 and 19 is that they are not pocket pistols. If you dont like the grip on the glocks check out the XD's or the S&W M&P pistols.

jbr
April 1, 2011, 09:57 AM
I think some of the early TCP had feed issues but mine has been great - mine is the stainless model as well - I find it very easy to shoot

reppans
April 1, 2011, 12:32 PM
I'd highly advise finding a shop that rents and try them out for yourself. I just went through a similar purchase picking up a LCP, and then a Glock 26.

While you can't beat a mouse .380 for concealment, as many have said above, it's not very accurate, or fun to shoot, and ammo is very expensive if you want to shoot it lot.

The LCP is OK in a you-get-what-you-pay-for kinda way, but I don't find it very accurate, it's slide is not so smooth, and fit and finish are about what you'd expect from a $260 gun. I guess I'll keep it as an option for minimalist wear, but I don't feel well protected by it, and I don't mean due to the caliber.

Just bought a G26 Gen 4, twice the price, weight and size, but OMG... I love this gun. My groups are way better at 25 yards, vs the LCP at 25 ft, it's fun and cheap to shoot, fit/finish and smooth reliable running can't be beat.... Now this gun makes me feel safe.

While still not pocket carry for me, I found a truly minimalist holster that I like very much and wear at 3:30... the MIC holster (http://www.glocktech.com/), which I also like for my G19.

mrmeangenes
April 1, 2011, 06:37 PM
Yay !!! Sensible comment.

Go to your room !

IMMEDIATELY !!!

jiminhobesound
April 3, 2011, 04:00 PM
I also live in Florida but typically have to dress a little more formally. I would love to carry a .45 acp but they get heavy. Go for a small 9mm. You can get them from about two hundred fifteen dollars, sccy, Kel tec, taurus and ruger, up to four hundred dollars. I agree with the other folks that say the 9mm is the minimum for self defense. I have a cz 82 in 9x18 and have carried it only because it has a thirteen round capacity. Slim and light are very important. I think more important that capacity. If you cannot shoot well the capacity means little. And, you can carry extra clips in other places to reduce the concentration of weight. Good Luck and do a lot of shopping.

Davejb
April 3, 2011, 05:47 PM
"If you cannot shoot well the capacity means little"

That same statement can be applied to caliber, a well placed 380 is far more effective than a poorly placed 45.

golden
April 3, 2011, 11:16 PM
I live in FLORIDA as well and the gun I carry the most is the BERETTA TOMCAT in .32ACP. It is reliable, more accurate than expected and controllable. I carry it in a pocket holster and it just disappears.

Sometimes, when I need less concealment and would like a more powerful gun, I use a 5 shot .38 Special. I have used the SMITH & WESSON, CHARTER ARMS and TAURUS. All worked well.

If it is cooler and I can wear something over my gun, I use either the BERETTA 92 Compact or WALTHER P-99. Both are 9m.m. pistols with night sights.

Jim

snooperman
April 4, 2011, 02:05 PM
Shot placement is far more critcal than the caliber size in a carry gun.

Ben86
April 4, 2011, 03:19 PM
The cadillac of mouseguns for me is the Kahr p380. Great quality, easy to shoot, great sights (big plus) and can be had for about $500 if you shop around. I also have a ruger lcp, which is great with certain mods.

I don't really consider the kahr pm9/cm9s to be mouseguns, they're a little too big and heavy to me. But, those are great guns if you don't want a .380. I have a pm9, but prefer to carry it IWB. The p380 is on my wishlist though because nothing does pocket carry better than a .380 IMO.

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