[dustind]

does anyone think we will ever get the guns that were banned by any executive order back, i would love to own an mp5 (and other guns) some day, even if i cant get select fire, i cant afford 8000+$ for preban, what would it take to get guns off the list? other than an act of god

[St. Gunner]

DustinD,

First the ban on the sale of machine guns was not by executive order.

In 1934 the government passed a gun control act that restricted full auto and suppresors, plus short barreled shotguns and rifles. It was sold as a taxing measure, but $200 was a bit much, when most of the machine guns for sale at the time sold for less than $50.

IN 1968 they passed another gun control act, this one set some really screwball stuff up, most of the record keeping you see today, plus dealt with the interstate shipment of firearms.

Then 1985 came along and they passed a law titled the Gun Owners Protection act, well it was for the most part, protected you as you traveled from state to state. Say you where from Texas and heading to a location in Canada and decided to drive through Chicago, without this act you would be in violation of Chicago law because of not having the firearm registered with the Chicago authorities. What the 1985 act did was say, "If legal where you came from, and legal where you are heading, nobody in between can arrest you for it if the gun is cased and unloaded." What happened though was an amendment was tacked on the end, that banned the future manufacture of machine guns except to government agencies. The BATF used it as an excuse to flat out refuse to sign anymore forms for machine guns manufactured. No paying the $200 tax, you are just out of luck.

Now the guns that got placed on the registry before the cut-off from the 1985 act are still legal to be transferred. But you won't see anymore new ones.

If you are serious about wanting to own one your best option is to get a whiz bang job somewhere that rakes in the bucks, then either buy the MP-5 or get a Class III license, which would allow you to buy a new one and use it as long as you didn't transfer it to anyone but a police agency.

It pretty much sucks, like most of the laws passed by our esteemed government officials, but that is the way the law is.

Getting it changed, revolution or getting this group from here elected to the Senate and House, I really don't know how else, I often have wondered if enough terror attacks of the home invasion type would not possibly stir enough emotion from the masses to have the laws loosened or abolished. Who knows anymore...

[dustind]

I heard today (I hope its not true) that even semi auto mp5s and uzis couldn't be imported, thus I cant go buy one unless i buy an old one before importing was banned.

is that true?

thanks for the history lesson

[Hkmp5sd]

Semi auto Uzi's and HK-94's (semi-MP5) are covered under the '94 assault weapon ban.

The recent SHOT SHOW issue of Shotgun News has a good article on the assorted gun bans and restrictions.

[dustind]

Semi auto Uzi's and HK-94's (semi-MP5) are covered under the '94 assault weapon ban.

ok so other than only getting 2 features and the magazine ordeal i can get them, so my sorce was wrong, thank god!

my blood pressure just dropped ten points.

thanks for your help

[bad_dad_brad]

If anyone thinks you will get previously banned guns and magazines back, you are being naive. The only thing you can look forward to is more draconian laws, banning future firearm purchases.

After the Maryland sniper thing, I figured I better get a AR-15, because, they will ban them from future purchases. And I fully expect, that to keep mine, I will have to pay some kind of tax and be registered.

There will never be fewer laws as long as lawyers make the laws.

[Hkmp5sd]

ok so other than only getting 2 features and the magazine ordeal i can get them, so my sorce was wrong, thank god!


Well, sorta, kinda, maybe. The Uzi Carbine and HK94 were classified as non-sporting firearms in the 1989 re-evaluation ordered by Bush the First, and then set in stone in the AW ban. Since they are non-sporting, they cannot be imported or assembled from imported parts. They can be assembled in this country provided that no more than 10 of the listed parts were imported. Other than one company manufacturing a US made version the HK SP-89 (semi-auto pistol version of MP5K), I'm not aware of anyone making HK94's from US manufactured parts.

[dustind]

if the 94 ban sunsets can the gun be imported, or can i import parts to make a gun?

are there any other guns like mp5s that i can buy? im guessing it would have to be american made, or maybe i will have to settle for an assault rifle for home defence/sporting, i just always liked the smaller pistol round shooting sub machine guns

thanks for your help

[Hkmp5sd]

The restriction could go away today if ATF would state the HK94 is a sporting firearm. With a fixed stock, it meets the AW ban and is legal.

If you are interested in a submachinegun, I believe that MN allows C&R machineguns. If you get a C&R FFL (Collector's License), you can legally purchase any machinegun listed on the C&R list from ATF.

If you are only interested in a AW type weapon in a pistol caliber, you can always purchase a postban AR-15 in 9mm or .45 ACP. No real need to pay the price for a preban just to have a bayonet lug and flash suppressor.

[dustind]

thanks so much for the info, i've learned a lot, i was looking for a small gun, pretty much the size and shape of a mp5k, i like the front grip, i think its the perfect home defence weapon for my 123 pound self, not to mention looks like a lot of fun to shoot. i will look around for a similar american made gun, i guess the reason i want one is because i built an autococker paintball gun that is a lot like it, i love my autococker but it probably wont do much against a determind bad guy :D

is a gun with no stock the same as a fixed stock legally since it doesnt adjust?

edit: where can i find the HK SP89 copy? what is the copies name and is it still made?

[Hkmp5sd]

I was wrong. Looks like they have expanded since the last time I visited them. They're making all kinds of HK clones now.

http://www.tactical-weapons.com/new%20web%20site%20special%20weapons%20inc/Pictures/sw89pistol.JPG


Special Weapons Inc. (http://www.tactical-weapons.com/new%20web%20site%20special%20weapons%20inc/SW%20civilian%20Guns.htm)

[Tamara]

Gawd that thing looks corny without the foregrip. (But if it had the foregrip, it'd be either an "assault pistol" or an AOW...)

[dustind]

Thanks so much, thats exactly what i wanted.

Is the clone companie's quality on par with H&K's quality control.

[hammer4nc]

As I understand it, any shotgun having a bore larger than one-half inch, is technically a destructive device (under 1934 NFA, I think).

They are only permitted, thanks to the gracious generosity of the Secretary of the BATF, because he finds they have a "sporting purpose". Remember, the USAS-12, Striker-12, and Streetsweeper were declared restricted a couple years ago, simply on the basis of a "finding" that these weapons had no redeeming "sporting purpose". No legislation required, just a letter issued by the BATF... http://spas12.com/spas.htm

Imagine a future anti-gun administration deciding to withdraw the "sporting purpose" exemption (say, in the wake of a gang crime using shotguns), and overnight virtually all shotguns could be outlawed. Hey, stranger things have happened.

So here's a potential class of firearms that "could" become restricted with no additional legislation, just a finding by the executive branch. Something to think about. :uhoh:

[Hkmp5sd]

The USAS-12, Striker-12, and Streetsweeper were classified as Destructive Devices because they had and bore >0.5" AND were considered Non-Sporting. Anyone owning one was given a short amnesty to register it as a DD under the NFA. After that, no more allowed.

[Tamara]

Is the clone companie's quality on par with H&K's quality control.

In a word?

No.

Nyet.

Nein.

Non.

[Hkmp5sd]

You're right about ATF being allowed to ban anything they want.

The determination of a weapon's suitability for sporting purposes "rest[s] directly with the Secretary of the Treasury." 114 Cong. Rec. 27465 (1968) (Statement of Sen. Murphy). While the legislative history suggests that the term "sporting purposes" refers to the traditional sports of target shooting, trap and skeet shooting, and hunting, the statute itself provides no criteria beyond the "generally recognized" language of section 925(d)(3). S. Rep. No. 1097, 90th Cong. 2d Sess. 80, 1968 U.S. Code Cong. and Admin. News 2167. The Senate Report on the Gun Control Act stated:

"The difficulty of defining weapons characteristics to meet this target [of eliminating importation of weapons used in crime] without discriminating against sporting quality firearms, was a major reason why the Secretary of the Treasury has been given fairly broad discretion in defining and administering the import prohibition."

[dustind]

are they close enough that H&K parts can be swapped onto the sp89?