My brother and his guns.


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ms6852
March 30, 2011, 05:52 PM
How many of you here love your brother but would like to wring his neck if you could get away with it. My brother loves guns and hunting but has no clue as to how to adjust for elevation or windage and certain distances using MOA or mil ranging formulas.

As much as he likes to shoot and hunt he as never made an effort to learn more than zeroing his rifle at 100 yds and 200 yds.

Am I alone in this or are there more big brothers frustrated in the shooting world?

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btg3
March 30, 2011, 05:59 PM
I suspect he actually is quite proficient at MOA/mil ranging... but he just gets such a kick out of provoking his big brother that he'll never let on. :D

joeq
March 30, 2011, 06:07 PM
Last I checked you didn't have to be a sniper to enjoy hunting and shooting.

ThePunisher'sArmory
March 30, 2011, 06:07 PM
I can't side with the brother part, but I have a bunch of friends who own guns and shoot but are not "shooters". They own guns but have limited understanding of how the things work, ie, ballistics, mechanical end of a gun, basic smithing, etc. Its cool though we still have fun and are safe. I have, however, drilled the 4 rules of shooting into their heads, whether they like it or not! Some ask to learn some things and I'll explain what I can, but for the most part they just shoot as something to do. Some of them do not even clean their guns???? Ah but what can you do?

Last I checked you didn't have to be a sniper to enjoy hunting and shooting.

I'm pretty sure this is not what the OP is getting at.....

ms6852
March 30, 2011, 06:15 PM
I can't side with the brother part, but I have a bunch of friends who own guns and shoot but are not "shooters". They own guns but have limited understanding of how the things work, ie, ballistics, mechanical end of a gun, basic smithing, etc. Its cool though we still have fun and are safe. I have, however, drilled the 4 rules of shooting into their heads, whether they like it or not! Some ask to learn some things and I'll explain what I can, but for the most part they just shoot as something to do. Some of them do not even clean their guns???? Ah but what can you do?



I'm pretty sure this is not what the OP is getting at.....
My brother is a shooter and he really has no understanding of ballistics. He spends a ton of money on guns and scopes and bases his decision purely on what he likes esthetically.
Just recently he bought an EOTECH 512 and kept it for a month before he gave it to me. He stated he did not like it because he missed a coyote lasered at 302 yards with his bushmaster. The Eotech is not accurate according to him. Me I am happy as can be.

ms6852
March 30, 2011, 06:17 PM
I suspect he actually is quite proficient at MOA/mil ranging... but he just gets such a kick out of provoking his big brother that he'll never let on. :D

WRONG!:banghead:WRONG!:banghead:AND VERRRRY WRONG!!:banghead::banghead::D

ObsidianOne
March 30, 2011, 06:29 PM
My brother is a shooter and he really has no understanding of ballistics. He spends a ton of money on guns and scopes and bases his decision purely on what he likes esthetically.
Just recently he bought an EOTECH 512 and kept it for a month before he gave it to me. He stated he did not like it because he missed a coyote lasered at 302 yards with his bushmaster. The Eotech is not accurate according to him. Me I am happy as can be.
Sounds like you're getting free stuff! Why are you upset? lol

Liberty1776
March 30, 2011, 06:32 PM
My older brother is gun illiterate. Has only shot 3, maybe 4 guns in his life. He barely knows what his gun is, and he is the best - BEST - wingshot I've ever seen in my life. He has literally never missed a pheasant...

ColtPythonElite
March 30, 2011, 06:37 PM
My brother is rolled up jacket on the truck hood, 3 shot somewhere in the black at 70 or so paces kind of guy. His method certainly doesn't seem to be a downside to hunting. He kills more deer every year than anyone else I know.

Robert
March 30, 2011, 06:39 PM
I may not be able to range using Mils or MOA, or know how to read the wind, or have intimate knowledge of ballistics but I know my hold and how to hit what I am aiming at. That is good enough for me.

1KPerDay
March 30, 2011, 06:49 PM
My brother loves guns and hunting but has no clue as to how to adjust for elevation or windage and certain distances using MOA or mil ranging formulas.
So?


I may not be able to range using Mils or MOA, or know how to read the wind, or have intimate knowledge of ballistics but I know my hold and how to hit what I am aiming at. That is good enough for me.
Right on. :cool:

ms6852
March 30, 2011, 06:57 PM
My brother is very similar. Once he has his scope boresighted he can hit anything and is feared by all 4 legged creatures. I just do not understand why he is so lazy in learning simple stuff as boresighting. He went through a box and a half of fusion 7mm cartridges trying to get on paper. He finally called me and told me and I walked him through it. The next day he calls that his nikon monarch is a piece of <deleted>. I told him to check and make sure the screws were loose and if so to use loctite to secure them. Problem solved. I was hoping to have a Monarch to my collection....but no luck.

txhoghunter
March 30, 2011, 07:02 PM
My brother is a shooter and he really has no understanding of ballistics. He spends a ton of money on guns and scopes and bases his decision purely on what he likes esthetically.
Just recently he bought an EOTECH 512 and kept it for a month before he gave it to me. He stated he did not like it because he missed a coyote lasered at 302 yards with his bushmaster. The Eotech is not accurate according to him. Me I am happy as can be.

Wanna pass on the aimpoint to me when he tires of it? ;)

grumpy66
March 30, 2011, 07:05 PM
That's why you tell him that Nikons are good cameras, not scopes.
Tell him he needs a Swarovski.

Hunt480
March 30, 2011, 07:12 PM
Sounds like he loves the thrill of the hunt like me, the gun is just one of the tools. I hunt alot but also shoot alot in the off season. I do reload but for many a year I basically site in my rifles at 100 yds and call it good for hunting but I'm in Ga. I bow hunt and handgun hunt also. I do alot of shooting with the handguns year round to stay sharp, All my shooting is solely for hunting purposes most of the time but I also enjoy shooting and finding accurate hunting loads with all my guns pistol/revolver/rifle. It do bring home the meat at crunch time.

TheCracker
March 30, 2011, 07:24 PM
Last I checked you didn't have to be a sniper to enjoy hunting and shooting.

Good one!

HarleyFixer
March 30, 2011, 07:29 PM
MIL = Mother In Law........don't understand them either

yeti
March 30, 2011, 07:39 PM
Being able to just do something is more important than knowing 'how I done it,' is. SWAG and by guess an' by gosh has put more meat in the freezer than all the ranging formulas & ballistics tables ever printed... but they do make for good reading on a cold winter's night.

forindooruseonly
March 30, 2011, 07:39 PM
My brother loves guns and hunting but has no clue as to how to adjust for elevation or windage and certain distances using MOA or mil ranging formulas.

I suspect most hunters don't - many people will never make a hunting shot over a couple of hundred yards and at that range if you miss, its not because you screwed a formula up in your calculations.

Believe or not, you can be a gun fanatic and not find all the mathematical aspects behind it interesting enough to bother, especially if you are not out to use such skills regularly. As long as he is safe and isn't out wounding wildlife by taking shots he shouldn't, leave him be. He knows what he likes, and doing math isn't one of them...

Blackrock
March 30, 2011, 08:05 PM
Heck my daughter ain't got a clue about all that techno jargon either. Last year I zeroed her .222 Rem fo 200 yards my self then helped her rezero because her POA/POI was different than mine then turned her loose on the Pdogs in South Dakota. She got cosistent kills from 15 yards out to 325 yards using Kentucky windage.

Sauer Grapes
March 30, 2011, 08:10 PM
I like your brother! When I hunted, I made sure the rifle was good to go @ 100yds. Went deer hunting and put it away until next season.
To this day, it's the only centerfire rifle I own. I'm a firm believer in "Kentucky windage".......;)

Animal Mother
March 30, 2011, 08:23 PM
Just recently he bought an EOTECH 512 and kept it for a month before he gave it to me.

:what: That's a heck of a brother, count yourself very lucky to have such a generous brother.

At least he's a gunnie, but I know where you are coming from. My own dad has been a gunnie for 50+ years, doing regular plinking, but it wasn't until this year that he had an interest in having me show him how to sight in a scope. Now that he knows though he's bought his own Bushnell for his Sig rifle and a Red-Dot for his Henry lever action, so he's at least he's coming around.

Walkalong
March 30, 2011, 08:23 PM
I agree with 1KPerDay.

My older brother has some real nice guns and scopes and goes hunting a lot. He knows where his guns hit and kills all kinds of deer etc. He could care less about anything else. He is quite ignorant about guns compared to most folks here, but happy as a clam. :)

LibShooter
March 30, 2011, 08:36 PM
Am I alone in this or are there more big brothers frustrated in the shooting world?

Don't try to be your brother's keeper. My big brother says trying to teach his little brother anything drives him crazy.

KingMedicine
March 30, 2011, 08:57 PM
+1000 1kperday

CoastieShep
March 30, 2011, 09:39 PM
To me, too much thinking takes away the fun of hitting the target. I like having my gun zeroed in at xxx yds, and using Kentucky windage and elevation to hit the target farther out at xxx yds.

ms6852
March 31, 2011, 12:32 AM
I love shooting and hunting and our passions are just as similar if not equal with maybe me bordering on obsession. That could be from my military background. But I just got off the phone and he traded his XDM springfield .45 acp never fired he just bought 3 weeks ago for $750 for a COLT PYTHON with 6 inch barrel.

HE JUST GAVE ME THE PYTHON: :what::what::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::neener::D:D:D

Dr.Rob
March 31, 2011, 01:01 AM
My brother is hard on gear. He's a pretty good shot, but you can bet any rifle or handgun he carries is going to come back from the field with scratches in the bluing, dings in the stock and wonky scope rings. That's just 'how it is.'

I can't 'make' him treat his gear better. Means when we get his rifle out to check it for a hunting season it usually needs adjustment, we adjust and re-zero and move on.

Couple years ago I refinished a stock for him. I don't have the skills/room for a re-bluing but I suspect he'd be better off with a parkerized rifle.

ms6852
March 31, 2011, 01:43 AM
My brother is hard on gear. He's a pretty good shot, but you can bet any rifle or handgun he carries is going to come back from the field with scratches in the bluing, dings in the stock and wonky scope rings. That's just 'how it is.'

I can't 'make' him treat his gear better. Means when we get his rifle out to check it for a hunting season it usually needs adjustment, we adjust and re-zero and move on.

Couple years ago I refinished a stock for him. I don't have the skills/room for a re-bluing but I suspect he'd be better off with a parkerized rifle.
My brother is just as hard on his gear, he refuses to clean his rifles after shooting. He believes that it messes up the accuracy. He has a bushmaster that he recently bought and has put about 300 rounds through it. He just wants to know how many rounds he can shoot before he has a jam. I told him that it could come in a most in-opportunity moment in a hunt that would cause him to miss his chance for a mountain lion or coyote, or worse in a home invasion scenario.

Dr.Rob
March 31, 2011, 01:54 AM
Mine is no slacker on cleaning, he's just hard on stuff.

MikeNice
March 31, 2011, 02:16 AM
It could be worse. When I showed my brother my CCH permit he just said, "All that means is they'll be harder on you because you should know the law."

He has no interest in guns what so ever. He has a pregnant wife and a daughter. He has been shot at in his own front yard, and he workings a job that keeps him "on call" half the month. So, he gets called out at two and three in the morning to work.

He told me, "I don't need one. I don't mess with nobody and nobody messes me." I just don't understand his reasoning. You would think somebody that had been shot at would know better.

(The person that shot at him was the brother of a woman he was dating. They had an argument and she ran to her brother claiming he beat and raped her. The girl was psycho. At least he learned to leave her alone.)

rozziboy18
March 31, 2011, 02:36 AM
my brother and my dad

my brother loves to hunt and shoot with me but refuses to let go of the "tactical lifestyle" that he like to pretend to live. the boy once showed up on a bear hunt with a 700p ready to pull a 2 mile hike up a mountain:what:! but hey what ever works for him, what i dont get is; he has a 700p 308 with leupold mark 4, 6.5-20x50. and he doesnt know how to use any of it! the last two years i have had to dial in his rifle and remark his 200 and 300 yard marks on the dial.

my dad on the outher hand is the best hunter i have ever know and he and i run a hunting and fishing service here in the smokies. it one thing to go out and take a deer for yourself, its a hold other thing to put someone on a deer. but he refuses to try anything new, in ways thats great in others, ammo and scopes, not so much. he still runs the remington core-lokt rn 270 rounds and will not shoot anything else! nothing worng with the round, he just beleves that all other bullets explode on inpact leaving no meat. he also believes that all the new scopes out there are to technical!

1KPerDay
March 31, 2011, 02:47 AM
But I just got off the phone and he traded his XDM springfield .45 acp never fired he just bought 3 weeks ago for $750 for a COLT PYTHON with 6 inch barrel.

HE JUST GAVE ME THE PYTHON
Okay... you officially don't get to complain about anything anymore. LOL :D

doc2rn
March 31, 2011, 02:55 AM
For me its the opposite! I had to loan my brother a dozen rifles I had lying in reserve for him to regain his mancard. Now if only I could get him to understand MOA...for an older brother he is cool.

gunnutery
March 31, 2011, 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms6852
But I just got off the phone and he traded his XDM springfield .45 acp never fired he just bought 3 weeks ago for $750 for a COLT PYTHON with 6 inch barrel.

HE JUST GAVE ME THE PYTHON


Okay... you officially don't get to complain about anything anymore. LOL

+1 :)

Davek1977
March 31, 2011, 03:48 AM
I'll openly profess I know NOTHING of MOA or mil fomulas, but still own guns and would consider myself as much of a shooter as the next guy. I'm guessing the vast majority of hunters/shooters around here are as clueless as I am about such things....but I don't doubt their ability to defend themselves or put venison in the freezer at will. I think its just as annoying whne someone thinks because they know something or possess a certain skill that they are somehow "shooters' while everyone else is just an "uninformed gun owner". i will say this though....As a lifelong shooter/hunter, NOT knowing mil formulas or MOA ranging HAS NOT hindered my enjoyment of the shooting sports or affected my ability to harvest whatever game it is that I'm hunting. Truth is, I may die being just as "ignorant" but will still have fun, will still fill the freezer, and will still consider myself every bit the shooter as the rookie next to me who thinks he HAS mastered all things sniper, yet can't hit an 8 in. square @ 50 yards/

makarovnik
March 31, 2011, 04:23 AM
Slap him.

mljdeckard
March 31, 2011, 04:33 AM
I didn't read the whole thread, I'm sure someone else already summed this up,

The vast majority of hunters don't need to worry about it. Most hunters won't take shots past 300 yards. For my .270 shooting 130 gr bullets, this means zero at 200, 1/2" high at 100 yards, maybe a 1-1.5" drop at 300 yards. Certainly minute-of-broadside-ribcage for game animals. For varmints, we use even faster, flatter shooting cartridges so that we don't have to do much math on the fly.

Distance shooting is a different ballgame with different rules and gear. You can certainly do one without needing to know how to do the other.

K-Rod
March 31, 2011, 06:31 AM
If your brother liked watching "Queer eye for the straight guy", going to "Drag Queen" contests & decorating wedding cakes, does he have the right to be mad or frustated with you because you don't?

All I'm saying is just because something works for you or you enjoy every aspect of your hobby, doesn't mean he should too. Just be happy you two have something in common that allows you to spend time together. We as men are competitive. When you start out shooting him or make those long shots, he'll come around & ask for advice. Now if the real reason for your frustation is because he out shoots you, well that's on you to deal with ;^)

ultradoc
March 31, 2011, 08:16 AM
my younger brother had two guns. One was a p-64 [maybe] and the other was a 30-30 winchester model 94 [i think]. He kept them in the basement for several years without doing anything to them. He needed some $ so he sold them. Needless to say the Winchester was covered with surface rust. What a sad sight.

pockets
March 31, 2011, 08:55 AM
Different streaks for different freaks. Whatever works for an individual to hit the intended target. Not everyone does it by formula.
Lost of people don't get wrapped up in MOA and MIL formulas. The world keeps right on rotating anyway.
.

ForumSurfer
March 31, 2011, 10:45 AM
It could be worse. When I showed my brother my CCH permit he just said, "All that means is they'll be harder on you because you should know the law."

Haha, I've heard that one before from a friend a million times. Either it's a pretty popular way of thinking in NC or I know your brother. :)

Claude Clay
March 31, 2011, 03:48 PM
just about all over 16 know the basics of how to drive. how many can tell you if their car has fuel injection? or if it is port injected or sequential? or what it even means...
they just know that it works and go about using it.

thinning out my accummulation of firearms and i asked my wife what guns she likes.....
the kind that go bang. <---her words. she is a safe gun handler and a better than good revolver shooter. go figure.

Charleo0192
March 31, 2011, 04:11 PM
I'm the younger brother, but my older brother does like to make himself out to be very knowledgeable on everything guns. Really though he doesn't know much more then how to clean the gun.

ms6852
March 31, 2011, 04:57 PM
:DHaha, I've heard that one before from a friend a million times. Either it's a pretty popular way of thinking in NC or I know your brother. :)
My 3 younger brothers share the same feeling, consequently my sister and I are the only ones with CCH permits.

DC3-CVN-72
April 1, 2011, 12:37 AM
I have a twin brother. We are about the same skill wise. we don't shoot alot, but, when we do we always have a grate time. were not snipers, and don't want to be. I don't care how he shoots as long as we can shoot together for a verry looooooong time !! :)

MikeNice
April 1, 2011, 05:00 PM
Forumsurfer, That was the first issue my CCH instructor addressed. He said it was the most common reason he heard for not getting one. I guess it is a popular way of thinking in NC.

ForumSurfer
April 1, 2011, 05:08 PM
Forumsurfer, That was the first issue my CCH instructor addressed. He said it was the most common reason he heard for not getting one. I guess it is a popular way of thinking in NC.

Completely understandable given all the severely twisted gun laws here.

mokin
April 1, 2011, 07:57 PM
I'd like to wring my brother's neck too. He isn't nearly as knowledgable about guns as I am (I'm okay with that) but he owns a few, enjoys shooting, has places to shoot, and is pretty proficient with them. I'd like to wring his neck because he has never taken his son, my nephew (going on nine years old) shooting. I could really rant here....

RockyMtnTactical
April 1, 2011, 11:59 PM
You failed to teach him. you're fault. :neener:

ms6852
April 2, 2011, 12:55 AM
I just find it intriguing that after all this years his real knowledge extends to only shooting straight enough to kill dear or coyote which he does yearly. He buys and exchanges guns and rifles with more frequency than one can ever imagine. Every single rifle or pistol he has had in the past at most was with him a maximum of 1 to 2 years. The sad part is that he would never clean them because he has no idea of how to strip a rifle or pistol. On the bright side I do benefit from his actions because I eventually will end up with them or am given the choice to purchase them at huge family discount prices.

FROGO207
April 2, 2011, 07:35 AM
I have two brothers and all three of us have several rifles each (lots of them). Where we hunt the max distance is 100 YD and to be honest most of the shots on deer, our major target, are 25 YD or less. Do we need a scope?? Not really. I have some that do have them but with what we have for terrain my Ruger SBH 44 mag w/10" barrel with stock sights is my most successful firearm to date cuz that is what I like to carry when seeking out bambi. OTOH one brother has a Win 94/AE with a 4X9 and see through sights. We do have a bunch of .22's with cheapo scopes for fun but do not take sniping that seriously.:D

StrawHat
April 2, 2011, 07:51 AM
I use rifles with fixed sights and once sighted in I don't touch them. I prefer to make sight adjustments with a file, that way they can't easily be moved. After I get on paper, I take the rifle and start walkign around shooting targets of opportunity from close in to far away. Rocks, cans, groundhogs, stumps, pails, whatever catches my eye or looks challenging. After a while you get to where you can estimate how much hold over or windage you need and make your shot. I guess I am the "brother" in this line of thinking. Or maybe "technically challenged".

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