The best survival rifle Cartridge

A pretty common one but hey I thought I'd give it a shot ... it turns out its a toss up between the ......

well you read it..

The best survival rifle (http://gunpoints.org/blog/?p=117)


Jason@gunpoints.org

I kind of think the best survival rifle would be something in a .22lr. YMMV.

It would depend upoon where you were, the conditions, and the game or threat you would encounter.

If I were in the Alaska or Canadian wilderness I would want a rifle capable of taking big game, and preferably one that would "discourage" a bear. The .308 would probably be my choice.

In the southern USA a .22 long rifle might be the best answer considering the game available.
In the Rocky Mtn area I would probably still go with the .308.

Regards,
Jerry

Mosin-nagant M44 carbine. 7.62x54R, and many rounds. Hits hard, cheap to purchase, spend the rest on scope and fiberglass stock.
Main choice for M44? Bolts are a little klunky, but work each and every time.
Or a .308 Mauser. IMO, can't go wrong with old milsurp technology - it was designed for ruggedness, which, in the end, is what you want in a Survival rifle.

Or, if you've got the $$, a Steyr Scout. Properly used, it's got some great potential to it. :)

the area I am in?

AR-7 hands down.

I kinda lean towards the 22 too.

I would take either the .308 or the .223 ... explanation here


http://gunpoints.org/blog/?p=117

If I had to pick a single rifle for survival I would pick a suppressed 10/22.

1. Can be used for any game animal including deer with proper bullet placement.
2. Can take down game without telling everyone in the county were you are.
3. 5000 rounds weighs approximately 35 pounds. And costs well under $200.00.
4. 22 rimfire firearms are the most prevalent firearms in the US.
5. 22 rimfire ammo will be a great barter item.
6. Will take small game with little meat damage.
7. For distances up to 100 yards a 22 will do for SD if needed. It may not quickly kill but very, very few will keep advancing with 3 or 4 22 rounds in the chest. Anything further away than 100 yards calls for leaving, not engaging.

I lean toward the 10/22 myself, but a combo O/U in .30-06 and 12GA would come in handy.

Impartial, I'm sure you have your reasons for wanting to increase your blog traffic, but your input here amounts to a "non-post" and I consider it bad form for a forum. I don't mind if you cut and paste your blog posts here, but asking us to click through to another page defeats the purpose of this forum. And it's annoying.

As for the topic, I agree with .22lr, but I would be far more inclined to carry a pistol in that caliber and carry a rifle in a more persuasive caliber. 5.56, .30 Carbine, or .308 would be a good choice, with the former two being common and lightweight.

Pretty much any rifle you choose will be a compromise.

A 5.56x45/.223 shooter will be lighter and permit carrying more ammo, and this is a good thing. At range, however, it doesn't have a stellar record of performance on big game. On the other hand, for self defense this is a very serviceable cartridge.

A .308/7.62x51 shooter will be heavier and so will its ammo, but you can expect pretty good punch at most useful ranges. Self defense becomes a problem, though, because the majority of self defense scenarios are going to be at close quarters. A "battle of the snipers" is way down the probability tree.

I happen to be a fan of the M1 Carbine. It delivers the sort of punch you would expect from a .357 magnum, and does it at 100 yards. It's not a high-performance round, and any big game will probably require a second shot. On the other hand, it's quite acceptable for varmint-sized game, and it certainly will serve in a defensive scenario. It has the capacity and rate of fire needed for close engagement. The rifle itself is exceptionally light, and the ammo is lighter and more compact that either of the two above.


But, as you said in your article, it all depends on what you're trying to survive.

In a conventional end-o'-society situation, there is the initial chaos and people scrambling to stay alive and/or get the upper hand. Okay, so that plausibly involves "social encounters" of the me-and-my-rifle kind. However, if you find yourself in a shootout of the kind requiring high-cap mags and rate of fire, your strategy has already failed, and your actual problem isn't the wrong rifle, it's a failure to have enough people on your side and/or a failure to avoid such engagements in the first place. Even if your situation is some kind of riot in your part of town, you're not going tango hunting; you will want to use just enough persuasion to keep the action away from your place.

Remember, you haven't parachuted into hostile territory with orders to engage "the enemy" in large groups, and neither has anyone else. You might well have a bigger problem with people who figure that since you're the guy with the gun, you've been elected their guide and protector. Once the chaos phase passes, your primary problems (at least the ones that might involve a rifle) will be random predators and hunting game (assuming you're anywhere near game).

And, speaking of game, what are the odds that you will find yourself subsisting on marmots and squirrels and rabbits instead of deer and elk? Squirrels with a .308? Should be interesting.

In a natural disaster, you're less likely to have to "shoot your way out" of anywhere. You might have to defend your family and your stuff, but probably not in any assault-on-the-castle fashion. Once again, you could wind up with an entourage that you didn't count on. And, once again, if you're out in the country, it's more of a random predator/hunting game thing.


That leaves simple misfortune.

You're driving through a snowy pass and something knocks your truck off the road. You're out fishing and when you come back, your truck battery is dead and you have no cell signal. You've gone hunting and gotten a flat tire and discovered you don't have a lug wrench (happened in Idaho last year). You're out hiking with a friend and he gets hurt and can't walk back out. You're out having a good time with family in the Jeep and accidentally drive into deep snow up to the fenders, and you're well and truly stuck, without any cell reception (had family members do that two winters ago). It's not hard to come up with oh-crap-what-now scenarios that have nothing to do with the breakdown of society or large scale disasters.

Against things like that, your "survival" rifle will be whatever you keep in the truck.


I keep a Marlin 70PSS Papoose (take-down rifle) in the truck, along with a hundred rounds of .22 LR stingers and five hundred rounds of bulk-pack Federal .22 LR hollow points.

No cell signal? Well, besides building a fire with the other stuff I keep in the truck, I can use the rifle to signal for help. I'm not worried about being short of ammo. If I have to handle random predators, I'm good for most critters, excluding bears of course. Bad people? A .22 rifle will seriously ruin your day, and has adequate range to keep heads down at 100 yards. The Papoose will do just fine for small game, and there's likely to be more of that than large game. Oh, and the Papoose don't really weigh nuthin', either.

I suppose I could carry the M1 Carbine in the truck, but I'm thinking I'd need a beater spare if I were going to do that. My current M1 Carbine is not a beater.

If I could find a nice Marlin 1894C (in .357) for cheap (ha -- mine was like $750), then I'd have a viable rifle for small game, varmints, and medium-to-large game, and certainly viable for the little social encounters. And the ammo isn't too heavy. No, you're not hitting stuff out at 300 yards with it, but that's mostly likely not your biggest problem anyway. I'd sure like to have the dollars to make one of those the "truck gun." 'Course, it's not all that light, and you really can't carry 500 rounds of .38/.357 with you.

Tell you what, if I get a nice fat bonus at work, I might consider changing the truck gun over to something heavier and more expensive, otherwise I'm sticking with the Papoose.

It's more appropriate for the things I'm most likely to have happen here.

Now, it should be noted that I don't live in San Francisco, or Houston, or Chicago, or Miami, or even Denver. I live in small-town-North-Idaho. You see, this way I don't have to solve the get-out-of-Dodge problem. I already got out with my Dodge.

:D

The Blog says nothing about rifle, just the 308 or the 223.

^^^exactly

If the author rulled out the 30-30 and 7.62X39 for various reasons, then the .223 should also be ruled out for it's lack of killing power of large game animals at just about any distance. Which leaves the 308 caliber as the round to choose.

Head shots.

Springfield Armory M6 Scout. .22 Hornet over .410 or .22LR/.410.
A no nonsense survival weapon.
Also...very hard to find.
Pete

For general survival? .22lr 500 rounds of .22lr is much more useful than 10 rounds of .308, for most of the time.

If you are worried about large animal defense, either a 7x57 mauser or .308 rifle, in a lightened bolt action.

I will say the .308 or .223 if we are just talking rifle. If any long gun I would say the 12 gauge do to the advancements in slug technology you have a very versatile weapon. You have bird shot for hunting small game, buckshot for defense and hunting larger game and slugs for large game and defense.

I think I would be leaning toward a 22LR. Get an accurate one, and learn how to use it effectively. Much easier to pack 5k rounds of 22LR than any of those that were mentioned.

There are too many variations:

1. Summer or winter?
2. Here in Alaska or elsewhere ?
3. In my plane or in my truck ?

While I change things around due to seasons and the areas I am flying over... I ALWAYS have a 22lr in the plane or on my person.

If were talking north america, I would take a 30-06. I'm not trying to live on squirrels skunks. If I was forced to kill to survive I would probably be taking squirrels down with rocks if it got to that point. I need something that can take big game down and protect myself at the same time. Not everyone can make eyeball shots on big game with a 22 at 100yds consistently either. I want something that can reach out on good meat. You see more game outside 100yds than you do at 50. Think about it, give yourself the best possible chance to survive. The extra weight isn't a concern, food and water is.

.22lr will be my choice.

Survival means a lot of things.

A .45/70 is pretty much useless as a small game rifle when you're in a ravine with a broken leg surrounded by ground squirrels. Makes a good signaling device though and is handy for bears. Probably could launch a decent sized flare too.

A .22 won't do much to a bear, but can poach a deer from close up, as many game wardens are aware. A box of 50 rounds doesn't take up much room or weight. 22's don't carry much sound as a signaling device and I've never heard of a 22 caliber flare.

A single barrel 12 ga. shotgun can kill a deer, elk, bear, bird, squirrel or bad guy and still launch a BIG flare skyward. Only downside is the ammo weighs a bunch and is bulky. One box of 25 shells weighs as much as a full canteen. However, if you have 10 flares, 10 birdshot and 5 slugs you have a pretty good selection of ammo for surviving til rescue, and letting the helicopter know where you're at when it arrives.

Firearms are only part of a tool kit, and when I'm in the woods I usually have two, but that's more about what I'm hunting than 'what if' I can't get back home.

.22lr

survival means meat for the stewpot

I'm gonna pay attention to what the Alaska bush pilot has to say about a survival rifle.

a flare gun for signaling aircraft or other hunters, actually a whistle and a mirror would probably suffice??

Or were you talking get you to work and back safely in case you neighborhood turns to trash until you can move somewhere else??? Well we go over that everyday, personally, I carry .45 ACP.

For killing lots of small, furry critters for food?? .22lr or a shotgun depending on birds or ground critters.

I have a feeling that this discussion borders on TEOTWAWKI scenario, and from what I'm told we don't do that here.

I would go with either a Kel-Tec RFB in 308 winchester or a kel-tec SU-16 in 223 remington

I have to agree with ArfinGreebly. Most people fail to realize that surviving does not mean having enough fire power to defeat any unfavorable encounters whether it is a large population or a small encounter of 1 to 3 people. Survival instincts should keep you from confrontation buy avoiding contact if possible. Escape and Evasion courses were always to to us in the military. The number one rule was not to get caught and you do that by making yourself invisible and using the terrain or structures to your advantage.

I would choose my ruger 10/22. I have a tac-sol barrel with a hogue rubber overmold stock that weighs in at well under 6 lbs. May 6 lbs with a 10x scope. I consistantly hit clay pigeons at 240 yards with my 22 and I know for a fact that it will penetrate 5/8's inch plywood at 200 yds. The 22 will penetrate through 4 layers of denim and an average of 10 inches of gel. It may not knock you on your feet but it will slow you down when I put a couple of rounds through your heart or your lungs. I assure you that you will have convince the individual from further continuing in your direction.

Your greatest weapon is also your weakest...YOUR BRAIN. There is an old saying that goes something like this..."Great judgement comes with experience, which unfortunately comes from bad judgement."

The 22lr in a survival situation will be a better tool, not a weapon, than a high power rifle. You can shoot squirrel, possum,snake,quail, turkey, or a small doe, roadrunner, doves, and still have enough meat to boil, or cook for substance. People always think of deer or elk for food. Heck you can walk up to a cow and put a bullet behind the ear and you have enough meat for a while.

If it must be used as a weapon it can be used. If you leave in bear country than use your 22 as a back up and make a 10ft or 12ft spear to fend off the bear. Once again I say your brain is your best weapon.

I'm gonna pay attention to what the Alaska bush pilot has to say about a survival rifle.

As long as you understand that survival in an area with 2000 lb predators is different than survival in an area with 80 lb predators that premise will serve you well.

In my AO a .22 lr will take down any deer you're likely to come across as well as packs of feral dogs, rabbits, squirrels, cats, rats, and purple headed wob knollers.

I'm a firm believer in the concept that a 10/22 in a folding stock with 3 30 rd mags is better than a .300 win mag bolt action with a 22 " barrel and 5 rounds of $1/rd ammo. which of those two options are you more likely to have in your trunk or ruck?

The rifle you have with you is 10 times more valuable than the rifle you left at home.

.22 lr

The 7.62×39 commonly found in the AK-47 and Ruger Mini-30 could very well be the most popular cartridge in the world. The reliability of the AK-47 platform is world renowned and unquestionable. This cartridge however we will rule out as it does not fit our needs for hunting, yes it is capable of killing a deer or other large game however it has long been plagued with accuracy issues.

And this is where I stopped taking him seriously. There's nothing at all inherently inaccurate about the 7.62x39 round, only many of the guns that fire it. That final statement is proof that he has no hard knowledge of the rounds, only stereotypical knowledge based on the guns that commonly fire it. The round itself, with either new commercial or high-quality surplus, is actually very accurate.

He also left out 7.62x54R, which gives you the Mosin Nagant and the PSL, and for which you can get a large stockpile of ammo cheaply. Overall, though, there's no real question that .308 is the best all-around round if you can get, say, an AR-10 or a Saiga .308.

I can see a few possibilities here, and all branching on scenario.

First of all - RULE OUT TEOTWAWKI. The second society breaks down, we'll have the military and martial law hauled on faster than you can get your AR's loaded. Besides, we're America. If the military doesn't step in, then every mall-ninja, gunshop-commando, paranoiac, and ghetto-soldier will be locked, loaded, and unloading on anything that moves anyways, such as each other. Have fun, I'll be in my basement with a beer, milady, and whatever shoot-em-up movies I can find. :P

So, we're left with an event putting you into the wilderness, outside of cell-range, and needing to survive. If you REALLY want to talk ANYWHERE, it's the .22LR. "Survival Rifles" all seem to use it, and they have no doubt had a LOT of time put into their development by people discussing things like this. It's light, easily-carried, not-loud to disturb other animals, and still powerful enough to take down what you'll NEED.
What you NEED, btw, are animals not much larger than Coyotes. I know, it sounds nuts, but really, having excess meat laying around your campsite from a deer or caribou is an opening for pathogens and worse - other predators your little .22LR won't really take good care of.

If you're going to be going off-the-grid to a cabin, and are leaving modern society, then pack a reload kit, save up ALOT of .264, and run a bolt-action 6.5x55SE. It's got low recoil, FLAT shooting (better guarantee of a hit, thus better use of ammo), and will take down anything from coyote to caribou. I went with Low recoil so that if you injure a shoulder or pull your back (VERY high chance injuries living in the open like that), it can still be fired. Also a point with the .22LR.

In terms of Varmints/squirrels/small stuff with a 6.5 - Well, if you're established, you should have containment for food, and thus, why are you worried about little stuff? The varmints shouldn't have rounds wasted on them, they should have traps set out. They're curious, but dim.

As long as you understand that survival in an area with 2000 lb predators is different than survival in an area with 80 lb predators that premise will serve you well.

In my AO a .22 lr will take down any deer you're likely to come across as well as packs of feral dogs, rabbits, squirrels, cats, rats, and purple headed wob knollers.

I'm a firm believer in the concept that a 10/22 in a folding stock with 3 30 rd mags is better than a .300 win mag bolt action with a 22 " barrel and 5 rounds of $1/rd ammo. which of those two options are you more likely to have in your trunk or ruck?

The rifle you have with you is 10 times more valuable than the rifle you left at home.
Where are you going to find a 2000lb predator? I don't think any cartridge is going to do you much good in the ocean. Do you know of any buoyant ones?

Where are you going to find a 2000lb predator?

I don't know how much an Alaskan Grizzly or Kodiak weighs, but my point was that if you have to be concerned about one of them you have a much different threat than here in Fl where our most dangerous 4 legged predator is a gator or coyote.

My father died when I was 13. My step-mother didn't want the "Burden" of my brother & I. My family on my Fathers side were "Older" so my brother & I were put in a boys home. We were there 4yrs. Every year we went on a Survival Hike. 2wks in the mountains with nothing but the clothes on our backs & a knife. We lived off the land. Now of course the Staff members that were in charge of each group had packs with first-aid kits etc in case of emergencies. Now adults, my brother & I for two weeks a year take off into the woods & live off the land in the same way. We do bring packs for emergencies only first-aid kits, mirrors, whistles etc. We don't take food, tents, sleeping bags, etc. We each do bring a Ruger six, a Henry Survival rifle & 500rds of shells.

Here in Alaska I would not even begin to consider anything less than a .338 I don't care what anyone else says..Until you play tag with a Coastal bear you would not understand..I would not have a .223 or .308 in this area and no one I know personally would either..So when it comes to us folks here in this part of Alaska we must bow out of this topic because we do not qualify.. :D

I would take a brick of 22LR and my Colt Woodsman, along with a deck of cards. I would plink away the rick of 22s and then start a game of solitaire, 1 or 2 games into it, Someone would be looking over my shoulder saying put the 4 of hearts on the 5 of clubs and I would not be lost any more.

It is perfect for small game.

Great for self defense in the wilderness. (stopping power doesn't matter as much when you have big distances, right?)

Great for all types of hunting. If I'm in survival mode, I don't necessarily feel the need to carry a big cartridge for a clean, one-shot kill. If I can't get a head shot for the one-shot kill, I'll settle for an eventually lethal wound.

Ability to carry and stock lots of types and quantity of ammo far outweighs the chance that I'll have to defend myself at point blank with it.

Again, if I'm in survival mode, I'm not going to let a bear get close to me. I'll shoot him in the head at 50 yards.

Speaking again of bears, as I understand it, they are more foragers and scavengers than hunters. If I kill a deer and start cleaning it up, I'm in more danger from a bear than if I'm just out walking around. (again, small game is better here, as I can eat it all in one sitting, and leave the guts and bones for the bears, hehehe) He smells the kill and WANTS SOME. I'll just be ready to eat my fill and abandon it if needed. Then, when I get a safe distance away, I can drill the bear too. :D

I will make one nod to the odd tactical situation: It'll be a semi-auto 22 with box magazines. Probably a 10/22. I'd probably have a small 4X scope on it.

I think my post caused an alarming amount of discussion which is great. So who cares. quit being whiny

For me , the youth size rossi 4 barrel combo. It all goes in a little bag that will fit in your backpack. You can get the barrels on numerous calibers.

Another way to look at this: survival rifle cartridge? How about .44 Magnum? Big enough for the bears that we are all so scared of. Good out to 125 yds. Not as bulky as 338 Win Mag. Can be carried in a smallish, handy, lever action rifle OR a revolver. (depending on whether you're in an urban or suburban location)

Anywhere bears aren't a factor though, I'll stick with the 22LR. I bet even a moose would be in mortal danger from me with a 22 rifle.

Like most of us I like seeing these survival gun/shtf threads. I know that we are not going to have to survive weeks in the wilderness after an Alaska plane crash or fight off horders of gang members, zombies or wild dogs.
The thing is that people are at least thinking and talking about being somewhat self sufficient and not relying on the government to be their mother, father and Santa Claus all rolled into one. I see this as a good thing. Hopefully one day it will spread far enough that the average plan for a disaster is not sitting on a roof with a please rescue me sign and a bad attitude for having to wait.

I would choose my Ruger 10/22 and hopefully avoid anything it wasn't big enough to kill. A full brick of ammo would be nice too.

Just to stir the pot a little let me throw this one out there. 410 shotgun. Light shot can take all small game and 00 buck or slug for the larger stuff. And before someone brings it up, yes 00 buck out of a 410 is the exact same as 00 buck out of a 12 gauge. The pellets are the same size and travel at the same velocity with the same energy. There are just fewer of them.

I've actually given some thought that the new "Judge" revolving rifle might be a reasonable survival gun. I don't see the point in the pistols but the rifle could be quite functional. Hot loaded 45 LC is nothing to sneeze at and having the option of using the variety of 410 loads available in the same long gun would make for a nice combo.

Ultimately I think the 22 would more commonly be a better choice. But I think a judge rifle or even a simple 410 would be a reasonable choice as well.

quit being whiny

Who is whining? All I see from my perspective is discussion.

a whiny perspective ;) take it easy debate is good, state your idea without bashing someone else

iNTERESTING THAT NO ONE OPTED FOR A SAVAGE 24 OR ONE OF THE TIKA OVER AND UNDER COMBINATION RIFLE SHOTGUN GUNS. I THINK THE TOP END SAVAGE WAS A .222 OVER A .20 GAUGE. HOWEVER, SEEMS LIKE TIKA HAD A MORE POWERFUL SET UP LIKE A .308 OVER A .12 GAUGE. i THINK THAT IS WHAT I WOULD WANT. THE .222 IS WELL CAPABLE OF KILLING DEER AND IS A VERY ACCURATE CARTRIDGE. I HAVE KILLED Mallard ducks with a nonmagnum .20. etc., etc., etc.

To me, "survival gun" means I'm mostly hunting small game; predators aren't a concern in my AO. If I had to choose only one gun for survival it would be a .22 rifle, primarily for the amount of ammo that can be easily carried. It is ideal for small game for the pot, and can be used for deer-sized game close in if the opportunity presents itself.

Close second choice from what I own would be a .357 lever rifle, with .38spl for small game and .357mag for larger game and self-defense if necessary. It loses out to the .22 because of ammo weight.

I want two guns, period. I'll take something short and handy in any centerfire caliber for big game and thugs, and a Browning Buckmark for small game.

The problem with thinking you're going to live on deer and elk is that after a couple of days you won't be able to eat that deer or elk, because it's spoiled. The reality is that it's pretty easy to pot rabbits and squirrels or shoot ducks on the water with a .22 on a day to day basis. It's also pretty easy to forage for food - river clams, cattail roots, berries, mushrooms, pine nuts, acorns (have to be cooked to be edible), fish, frogs, song birds - the reality is that there is food all around you and you don't need a heavy rifle for food.
You'd really only need the centerfire rifle for defense. You can shoot a deer if you want, but you're only going to eat about ten pounds before it spoils on you. It might make more sense in the winter when you can preserve the meat, but even then it would be easier to take small game than big game.

If you're talking SURVIVAL as in my plane went down; was camping and got stranded; got lost; etc... then it would be whatever you happen to be carrying with you. Maybe you bring a rifle with you went you go hiking. Most people don't.

If you're talking SURVIVAL as in "End of society as we know it"; "Red-Dawn" type of crap. Then the ONLY rifle i want with my is a 22LR. The LAST thing you want to happen in a breakdown of society type of survival situation is for ANYONE ELSE to hear you and know you're there. I don't want my .223, 308, 30-06, ak, or any other such rifle. Give me my Winchester 190 with a box of 500 ammo. "Preferably Sub-Sonic". Easy to carry. Enough ammo for more than a year. Will easily be found some place if you need more. And can kill any animal you NEED it to kill. You don't need to be shooting anything bigger than a normal size deer. You're not going to be able to carry any leftover meat with you. Shoot as you go and shoot what you can eat or carry.

As for defense; even bear; I have a pistol for that. But defense wasn't the question. But if a true survival environment happened because of society; there's no way in the world do I want anyone seeing or hearing me shoot animals. It might be their dog or an animal I'm after. For the urban dwellers, it could be a squirrel in you back yard, neighbor's dog, etc...For survival; the 22LR is the best and personally, the only choice.

I want two guns, period. I'll take something short and handy in any centerfire caliber for big game and thugs, and a Browning Buckmark for small game.

The problem with thinking you're going to live on deer and elk is that after a couple of days you won't be able to eat that deer or elk, because it's spoiled. The reality is that it's pretty easy to pot rabbits and squirrels or shoot ducks on the water with a .22 on a day to day basis. It's also pretty easy to forage for food - river clams, cattail roots, berries, mushrooms, pine nuts, acorns (have to be cooked to be edible), fish, frogs, song birds - the reality is that there is food all around you and you don't need a heavy rifle for food.
You'd really only need the centerfire rifle for defense. You can shoot a deer if you want, but you're only going to eat about ten pounds before it spoils on you. It might make more sense in the winter when you can preserve the meat, but even then it would be easier to take small game than big game.
They ate big game in the old days. The trick was to smoke the meat quickly. heck, eskimos hunted whales and didn't let anything spoil or go to waste.

If you're talking SURVIVAL as in my plane went down; was camping and got stranded; got lost; etc... then it would be whatever you happen to be carrying with you. Maybe you bring a rifle with you went you go hiking. Most people don't.

If you're talking SURVIVAL as in "End of society as we know it"; "Red-Dawn" type of crap. Then the ONLY rifle i want with my is a 22LR. The LAST thing you want to happen in a breakdown of society type of survival situation is for ANYONE ELSE to hear you and know you're there. I don't want my .223, 308, 30-06, ak, or any other such rifle. Give me my Winchester 190 with a box of 500 ammo. "Preferably Sub-Sonic". Easy to carry. Enough ammo for more than a year. Will easily be found some place if you need more. And can kill any animal you NEED it to kill. You don't need to be shooting anything bigger than a normal size deer. You're not going to be able to carry any leftover meat with you. Shoot as you go and shoot what you can eat or carry.

As for defense; even bear; I have a pistol for that. But defense wasn't the question. But if a true survival environment happened because of society; there's no way in the world do I want anyone seeing or hearing me shoot animals. It might be their dog or an animal I'm after. For the urban dwellers, it could be a squirrel in you back yard, neighbor's dog, etc...For survival; the 22LR is the best and personally, the only choice.
In the scenario you describe, there won't be any game to hunt. Too many people in an area will deplete game too quickly. there will be people eating people.

Let's keep it civil, and out of fantasy land.

I might settle for my o/u 410-22 for all of my needs, but one gun is not enough. 22 something for food, and the 1911 to protect my family.

a whiny perspective take it easy debate is good, state your idea without bashing someone else
Yes, debate is good, are you going to join the discussion or are you going to just point at your blog?
If you are looking at a lost in the woods situation, it would take about three days at the most to walk out anywhere around Pennsylvania, So I would take a nice accurate 22lr and make some soup or roasted squirrel. Any bird I run into is going to be shot on the ground so I do not need a shotgun for wingshooting. I also will not be shooting anything large because I do not nor will have the ability to process that much meat just to get me out of the woods. My biggest problem would be good water.


If you are talking about Self defense, I will be close enough to home in that situation to use anything I have in my arsenal to assist.

If you want to start talking TEOTWAWKI, this thread is done.

The .22LR (better for most locations) and shotgun (probably better for territory with large predators, like Brownies) are king for survival...both for the same reason, versatility. The .22LR can take just about any game animal in NA with proper application of excellent marksmanship (if you hunt to survive you will learn to pick your shots and shoot well). The shotgun can also take most anything with the proper load and requires lesser skill (but is a great deal larger and heavier).

I don't believe that the .223Rem., 7.62x39mm (it can be just as accurate as anything else), or .30-30WCF (don't underestimate a lever rifle) is a bad choice either, but large game cartridges (like '06, .308Win., .45-70Govt., et al) are a bad idea due to weight and size.

:)

I happen to be a fan of the M1 Carbine. It delivers the sort of punch you would expect from a .357 magnum
I have shot men with both, and that's not my experience!

I happen to be a fan of the M1 Carbine. It delivers the sort of punch you would expect from a .357 magnum
I have shot men with both, and that's not my experience!

Could you elaborate?

What round? What range?

If my existing information is flawed, I'd surely like to remedy that.

My data indicate that MV of the .30 Carbine is 1,970-1,990 fps on a 110 gr projectile for a ME of 975+ ft lbs, and .357 is about 1,500 fps on a 110 gr projectile (factory) for a ME of about 550 ft lbs (lower fps on heavier loads).

Something I missed?

A "survival" situation can take on many meanings. To some, weathering a job loss is a survival situation, to others it means the governments' chem trails leading to the zombification of the masses, and only those with the right combination of AR accessories are immune.

In my world, the best cartridge is .22 LR - small, lightweight, versatile, inexpensive, inconspicuous (to a degree), plentiful - it's hard to beat. But in reality, if we're talking a true survival situation where long term for whatever reason you are separated from society, you're going to have different priorities than a firearm.

Could you elaborate?

What round? What range?

If my existing information is flawed, I'd surely like to remedy that.
As an adviser in Viet Nam, my issue weapon was the M2 Carbine (identical to the M1, but with the full auto kit installed.)

I shot a man repeatedly with it, and he got away. I saw a man shot repeatedly with the carbine, and he was able to reach a fighting position and detonate a claymore.

These were military ball rounds, of course. I wrapped my carbine around a tree, claimed it was destroyed in action and borrowed an M1 rifle from the ARVN and carried that from then on.

I shot two men with my Colt M357, using my handloads with wadcutters -- both fell to a single shot.

Pointing to a blog discussing ammunition for a SHTF scenario isn't a discussion and starting a thread about ammunition for rifles for a SHTF scenarios isn't a topic of discussion for THR.

The 7.62×39 commonly found in the AK-47 and Ruger Mini-30 could very well be the most popular cartridge in the world. The reliability of the AK-47 platform is world renowned and unquestionable. This cartridge however we will rule out as it does not fit our needs for hunting, yes it is capable of killing a deer or other large game however it has long been plagued with accuracy issues. FAIL