Economy long range tack driver, with little recoil? What caliber?


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Prosser
March 31, 2011, 04:21 AM
Hi

I've been playing with the idea of building a rifle for long range, with tack driving accuracy. Target shooting at 100-1000 yards or greater is the goal, scoped gun.

Currently I have a Interarms Mark X, 30-06, that still has the stock sporter barrel. I've been looking, but, 30-06 is not exactly easy to find that is match grade ammunition, and reasonably priced. It would need a Douglas barrel, at least, to really start tack driving.

I really need to buy another press, and start reloading again, since my current 650 seems to have been taken by someone else...:fire: But, that's another issue...

Some of the ideas of been playing with:

a 6.5mm-08. Ammo? How expensive, reloading only, short barrel life.
What are the merits of the 6.5's?
Which of them have factory ammo, and don't burn barrels out in 1000 rounds?

What ammo compares with that swiss 7.5mm matchgrade stuff that is designed for the K31 rifles?

260rem? .308?

What has matchgrade ammo around, and likely to be around, for a reasonable price?

Would I be better off just finding a Remington 700 and starting there?
What kind of rifle?

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dnthmn
March 31, 2011, 04:32 AM
100 yds is hardly long range. For that go with a .223/5.56. Cheap and very low recoil. good for at least 300 yds punching paper.

Prosser
March 31, 2011, 04:34 AM
Sorry. Fixed that.

dnthmn
March 31, 2011, 04:50 AM
Ah. That's a rather significant difference. I haven't entered the 1000 yd arena, but I can tell you that 6.5mm is a great long range bullet. You can get very long bullets with outstanding BC's that will retain velocity better than most bullets as well as recoil less than the .30 calibers.

As for the 7.5x55 Swiss, it is pretty close to a .308 Win in both size and ballistics. Many people say you can use .308 load data for it. At least it makes a decent starting point. The bullets are the exact same diameter, .308.

epijunkie67
March 31, 2011, 06:45 AM
Couple of items.

First, if you want to shoot at 1000 yards with "tack driving accuracy" then you better plan on either reloading or spending a truck full of money on ammo. Because really high grade ammo that lets you shoot that well that far ain't cheap. And to maximize exactly what YOUR gun likes is going to require reloading.

Second, the idea of "1000 yards" and "with little recoil" don't belong in the same category. At least as I would define "little recoil". I consider recoil from a .223 to be little. A .308 or up isn't "bad" recoil but I don't think you'd call it "little" either.

A couple of questions for you. I see you said you want to punch paper. Is this a "Having fun ringing gongs at 1000 yards" gun or a "I might be entering a 1000 yard match for prizes" gun?

How much you willing to spend? Are you wanting something a little less accurate but less expensive or are you planning on dropping some serious cash to shave a few fractions of an inch off your groups at 1000 yards?

Is 1000 yards REALLY your expected max range? Could you be just as happy with something that gives you good groups out to 600 yards instead?

wanderinwalker
March 31, 2011, 07:44 AM
Second, the idea of "1000 yards" and "with little recoil" don't belong in the same category. At least as I would define "little recoil". I consider recoil from a .223 to be little. A .308 or up isn't "bad" recoil but I don't think you'd call it "little" either.


A .260 bolt-gun with a heavy barrel and scope will be in the 12-15 pound range and will be as close to "little recoil" as you'll get out of a great "1000-yards" capable rig. Some of the hot 6mm cartridges will get there too, but forget factory ammunition as it doesn't exist for them.

For the OP, one of the Savage long range rifles (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRP) would be a good jumping off point for your desires.

fallout mike
March 31, 2011, 07:47 AM
I wanted to get into 800 - 1000 yard shooting myself here recently until I realized what it was gonna costs. I could have made myself still do it but I realized I had an even bigger problem. It's kinda hard to find a place to shoot at those distances. All my property is wooded and I really didn't wanna have to go through clearing a firing lane over a half mile long. From the info I was getting be prepared to drop $1200+ on your scope.

BigBore
March 31, 2011, 07:53 AM
Economy long range tack driver

They make those?I want one..My Savage 110 BA 338 LAPUA was 1700.00 ish..And we wont even discuss my Barrett which was much more..Its hard to get a decent long range rifle at a bargain price unless you build one yourself.

mustang_steve
March 31, 2011, 09:34 AM
For economy, Weatherby Vanguard. You can get a sub-MOA rifle for about $500.

Now, it's not a 1000yd rifle. There is no such thing as an economy 1000yd rifle. Hell, your glass is going to be in the four digits alone. You're most likely looking at a custom made rifle, with precision made hand-load ammo (expect to reject 90-95% of the materials you buy since they are within manufactuer specs but not yours and sell those off at a loss to low-ballers), then go through many range sessions to make sure everything is working right together.

reliable, cheap, accurate.....pick two.

Kachok
March 31, 2011, 09:51 AM
Economy, tack driver. Savage 12 series without a doubt. They build semi custom match rifles if your budget is higher then that. Stay away form Remington 700s I have owned two and both were a major let down. Never had a Tikka T3 or Savage 110 let me down. Both of those are scarry accurate. Low recoil and long ranged, get a 6.5mm. Great BC in light weight bullets and unreal BC in mid weight bullets. 6.5x55 is AWSOME 6.5x284 is supposed to be the long ranged masterpiece.

BrocLuno
March 31, 2011, 06:06 PM
Tikka T3 varmint as a base. Build from there. 6.5mm is likely the round of choice? They make a 6.5x55 with an 8 twist. Should get you there :)

kis2
March 31, 2011, 06:09 PM
mustang_steve
"reliable, cheap, accurate.....pick two."

Awesome.

ms6852
March 31, 2011, 06:09 PM
You want the following according to your title.
Economy-- Get a Savage

Tack Driver-- Get a Savage they are known for their accuracy.

You want long range capacity---Choose a .243 Winchester. This cartridge will out shoot 308 and 30-06 calibers at 1000 yards. You need a fast rifle twist like 1:7 and shoot 115 grain DTAC bullets.

You want less Recoil---The .243 Winchester will give you less recoil.

Prosser
April 1, 2011, 03:11 PM
What caliber might have surplus ammunition avaliable that is capable of long range accuracy?
Swiss 7.5 G11 is the only one I know of, and, it's .50 cents around.

Any other commercial, or avaliable ammunition that is capable of long range accuracy, but, without the super high cost?

Also, what calibers might one switch a 30-06 to, by a barrel change, that would be closer to the
objective, and still use the same 30-06 action?

MtnCreek
April 1, 2011, 03:50 PM
I started off with a used Savage 110, .308/20". It was in good shape and came w/ decent optics, mounts and a bipod. Cost was around $700. It shot better than I did at 500 - 600m. As my skills grew, I upgraded.

Prosser
April 1, 2011, 05:37 PM
First step is the 300-600 yard range. Looks like 1000 maybe more money then it's worth, at least to me.

wanderinwalker
April 1, 2011, 06:35 PM
First off, WHAT do you want to do at 300-1000 yards? Are you interested in prone shooting at round bullseyes? Bench-rest? F-class and F-T/R (at round bullseyes)? Steel plate matches?

I ask because each of these disciplines requires something slightly different. If you're interested in standard NRA Highpower Highpower shooting, or mid-range prone, you can get great results with a .223 even. My game is across-the-course shooting, which involves 200-600 yards, using iron sights and an AR-15 in .223. It's about as low-cost as you will get in a truly competitive rig IMO. Long-range bench rest and even F-class (optics, adjustable rests, etc) are more expensive and equipment intensive from what I've seen.

Prosser
April 1, 2011, 07:41 PM
I'd like something that is pretty much one hole, from 100-300 yards, from a bench rest, and reasonable at longer
ranges. Just shooting for fun. I find only accurate guns intresting, and, after being spoiled by a couple AR 15's and M1A's, CZ452, etc. I would like my CZ 550 and Interarms Mark X to be that accurate.

ms6852
April 1, 2011, 07:51 PM
Prosser, there was a recent article written in which comparisons were made from custom rifles vs factory rifles. The gist of the article was to see if you really needed to spend the money for moa or sub moa accuracy. The answer is no. With the advances in technologhy and metallury you can already get moa or sub moa accuracy out of the box.

I believe they used a stevens rifle the Edge, which is the least expensive the Savage made and it shot moa out of the box. Basically the tools are already offered out of the box, it is the shooter that lacks the ability to shoot moa or sub moa.

dubbleA
April 1, 2011, 08:11 PM
I'd like something that is pretty much one hole, from 100-300 yards, from a bench rest,

One hole groups at 300 yards? That's a tall order for even the BR guys much less an economy rifle.
Of course there will be some that say their $300 savremcehster will do it all day long. Take a gander at the NBRSA and IBS world record groups at that range.


ms6852, there is a huge huge HUGE difference between 1 hole groups at 100-300 yards and moa at the same distances

TBH
April 1, 2011, 08:33 PM
I am not a Savage fan. I own a 700 PSS in 308 and am thinking of picking up a LTR in 223. That said, I just read an article in "ON Target" about a new savage model. I think it was a target model 12 long range. As I remember, they shot 4 or more 3 shot groups and they were all just under or just over 1/4" at 100 yds.
For a rifle that comes in 243, 260 and 6.5 creedmoor and retails for a little over a grand, that might be worth looking into.

RobMoore
April 1, 2011, 08:43 PM
Savage 12 LRP 6.5 creedmoor $875 shipped

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/71097

ms6852
April 1, 2011, 10:57 PM
One hole groups at 300 yards? That's a tall order for even the BR guys much less an economy rifle.
Of course there will be some that say their $300 savremcehster will do it all day long. Take a gander at the NBRSA and IBS world record groups at that range.


ms6852, there is a huge huge HUGE difference between 1 hole groups at 100-300 yards and moa at the same distances
Yes I know, because a 3 inch group at 300 yards is still moa.

ms6852
April 1, 2011, 10:59 PM
Prosser the is a guy in sniper central forum that will build you a custom rifle with scope included for under $1200 dollars. Depending on the platform you want to use, such as remington or howa. Everything is included.

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