best pocket carry autoloaders


January 9, 2004, 04:06 AM
Heya, I'm new :D

I just recently got my carry permit and I've come to realize that my S&W AirLite 386PD is just a tad large for certain ensembles. I'm looking for something: autoloading, pocketsized, relatively lightweight, and... comfy. The last criteria almost had me carrying my beretta .22 short. Of course then I realized that spittle had a higher OSS rating so I looked elsewhere. Some models I'm considering:

-Colt pocket .380's or 9's
-Sphinx AT-380 (heard nothing but good)
-Rohrbaugh R9 (bit too spendy...)
-Bersa 380 (only one on this list I've handled...)

I'd really rather not use anything below a .380 and I'm not a big fan of plastic, unless it's my HK :p

Some models I've ruled out:
Kahr and Keltecs (I'ma plast-o-phobe)
Baby Glocks and HKs

So, any suggestions or impressions of the models I'm looking for? I don't mind paying more for a fine exotic piece, so long as it stays below a grand

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January 9, 2004, 01:38 PM
I'm in the same situation. I take my ccw class tomorrow. My first gun was a baby eagle. Too heavy for carry.
Now I'm considering either a Bersa/Firestorm 380, or even a KelTec 380. I just can't make up my mind which one to go purchase.

Also, does anyone have any pics of how to carry concealed? I want to see some examples if possible.

January 9, 2004, 01:47 PM
I know you don't like plastic, and to be honest, I'm not real fond of it either, but my P32 has been 100% reliable since I got it (it had 4 FTE on one brand of ammo, but not on any other brand since). FWIW, the frame rails are not plastic, but an Al insert. I can pocket carry it regardless of what I'm likely to wear.


January 9, 2004, 01:59 PM
Yeah... there's a lot to be said of the P32s and P3ATs... Compact, very lightweight, reliable, effective... Perfect for pocket carry.

Among the 'nicer' 32s are the Seecamp, NAA Guardians and Autaugas. Generally positive comments on all but I think the newer P32s are still a bit more consistantly good.

January 9, 2004, 02:15 PM
have you considered one of the all metal Kahrs? ive never owned one but they are spoken highly of.

January 9, 2004, 02:31 PM
The micros come in steel, if you do not mind the extra weight.....
The Sphnx is a tad large for the pocket. Same for Bersa.
The Colt Pocket Light Mustang was about the best 380 around for pocket duties, if you can find one..

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 9, 2004, 02:35 PM
Some models I've ruled out:.......CZ


Lookie at this link:

Maybe your mind can change?

January 9, 2004, 05:38 PM
What Gary said......d*mn RAMI picture is following, I'm not paranoid....really.:scrutiny:

Seriously though, the RAMI holds great promise as a reasonably priced small CCW piece. We're (CZ fans) waiting patiently to find out first hand.


January 9, 2004, 05:59 PM
Wonder if the guy in that picture has large or small hands?

I put my Kel_Tec P-3AT in my hand like the above picture and they seem similar in length & height but it depends on the hands.

Anyone have the specs on this new CZ? Even if length & height are close, I would imagine it would be much heavier & wider than the Kel-Tec.

January 9, 2004, 06:08 PM
Where's the slide stop on that thing?

680, I'm patiently awaiting for the MK9 Elite 2003 to be released. The RAMI looks like it's going to be neat as well.

January 9, 2004, 06:30 PM
The rami is small, but isn't really as small as it looks, that guy has huge hands.

January 9, 2004, 07:19 PM
Hmm... I hadn't heard of the RAMI til now, might be worth looking at.

Also those steal Kahrs might be the way to go. All the shops in my area seem to have the new poly Kahrs and I don't like plastic frames on guns that small :(

Thanks for all your help :)

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 9, 2004, 09:54 PM
Here's the official CZ press release:

Length: 6.57 inches
Barrel Length: 3.00 inches
Sight Radius: 4.92 inches
Width: 1.26 inches
Height W/Mag: 4.72 inches
Empty Weight: 2.3 oz. in 9mm, 2.6 oz in.40
Weight W/Empty Mag: 24.5 oz.
Weight W/Full Mag: 28.6 oz.
Magazine Capacity: 10 in 9mm, 8 in .40

And the CZ-USA Press Release:

CZ 2075 RAMI Sub-Compact to be introduced at 2004 SHOT SHOW
2003-12-09 11:22:08

Kansas City, KS - 4 December 2003 - CZ-USA is pleased to announce the release of the CZ 2075 RAMI.

The CZ 2075 RAMI is a sub-compact semi-automatic based on the proven CZ 75 line of pistols.

The trigger mechanism operates in selective DA and SA mode depending on the shooter's preferences.
Several safety devices are used including a firing pin block and a manual safety. Incorporating the CZ
double-stack magazine design, the little RAMI accommodates 10 rounds of 9mm Luger, or 8 rounds of
40 S&W, plus 1 in the chamber.

With a 3" barrel, and unloaded weight of less than 25 ounces, the black polycoat, alloy frame RAMI is
ideal for concealed carry.

The Suggested retail price for the CZ 2075 RAMI is $559.00

Cesk√* Zbrojovka (CZ) has been a leader in firearms manufacturing since its creation in 1936 in Uhersk√Ĺ
Brod, Czechoslovakia. CZ's use of state of the art technology combined with European craftsmanship
has gained them worldwide recognition for their accurate, durable, and dependable line of firearms.
CZ-USA provides sales and warranty support from their Kansas City, Kansas location.

CZ-USA, P.O.Box 171073, Kansas City, KS 66117-0073
Contact: Jason Morton
(913) 321-1811
Fax: (913) 321-2251

Marko Kloos
January 9, 2004, 10:11 PM
I've grown quite fond of the little Colt .380 lately. It's very small and light, yet offers a big enough grip for comfortable and quick accurate shooting. The cocked-and-locked carry is a bonus for a 1911 guy, of course.

January 9, 2004, 10:12 PM
Well, clubsoda22 is correct, that guy in the picture must have huge hands. Here are the P-3AT specs (to the right in brackets) from the Kel-Tec website for the P-3AT (.380):


Length: 6.57 inches [5.2"]
Sight Radius: 4.92 inches [3.8"]
Width: 1.26 inches [.77"]
Height W/Mag: 4.72 inches [3.5"]
Weight W/Full Mag: 28.6 oz. [10 oz.]
Magazine Capacity: 10 in 9mm, 8 in .40 [6+1]

Avery Goodschott
January 9, 2004, 10:36 PM
My Kahr MK9 Elite 98 is with me CONSTANTLY.

Fits in my front pocket jeans pocket or my hip pocket (Don Hume), but I usually carry in deep concealment FIST holster

A marvelous gun. Elite trigger is super Glock. Weight of stainless makes recoil comfortable. And it is as accurate as my SIG P226 under 10 yards.

January 9, 2004, 11:40 PM
The NAA Guardian in .380 is an excellent choice for a small auto, if you don't like plastic.

January 10, 2004, 12:41 AM
The RAMI sounds a bit big for pocket carry, but it might be worth getting hands on with it.

I'd probably get the Pony if I got a colt as I'm not used to carrying cocked and locked, but none of the surrounding gun stores have any used ones in stock :(

Any MN natives 'round here know any good gunshops in the metro area besides Frontiersman, Bill's, Armored Fire, or Metro Pawn and Gun? It's pretty hard to buy a gun if you've never held it in your hand.

Thanks again for the help guys!

January 10, 2004, 03:41 AM
My pocket pistol USED to be the Kahr MK9 Elite.
Now that the technologically superior P3AT has burst upon the scene, I've got a new MG!!! :D

January 10, 2004, 07:27 AM
Get a Kahr PM9 and don' t look back.
5.3" long X 4" tall X 0.9" wide & 14oz.
I am pretty sure that it is the smallest 9mm available.
Mine has been flawless.

January 10, 2004, 08:48 AM
See the " 9mm Mak ? " thread for info on a great gun at a great price.

January 10, 2004, 09:09 AM
-Colt pocket .380's or 9's
Nice guns but some are SA triggers Cond 1 carry and some are DA triggers.

-Sphinx AT-380 (heard nothing but good)
Killer gun but relatively speaking a bit large for a Pocket of the line gun.

-Rohrbaugh R9 (bit too spendy...)
I hear ya..but very very very nice.

-Bersa 380 (only one on this list I've handled...)
If you have to have a .380, this may be the way to go...a bit big for some pockets though...very nice and cost effective......

Ruled out models.......bummer!

Kahr and Keltecs (I'ma plast-o-phobe)
Kahr K series guns are as good as they get, Ive had them and I carry a KT goes bang everytime I pull the trigger.

Great/if not the best pocket guns made.......

I dont blame you.....I got Walther bite scars and they are spendy for what you get.

The CZ83 is too big for pocket carry and the Rami is looking MIGHTY good...

Baby Glocks and HKs
Glocks are great guns......a tad big for pocket carry and HK doesnt make a mini thats available yet...........

Id seriously look at Kahrs MK/PM series. It you dont like the KT's its my next choice. For quality, the Kahr and Sphinx are top of the line.

Shoot well.

January 10, 2004, 11:44 AM
I'm eyeballing a SIG232 right goes like this:

7+1 rounds
3.6" bbl
6.6" length
4.7" height
1.2" width

Can't go wrong with a SIG. :D

edited 'cause of Snowdog. ;)

January 10, 2004, 12:06 PM
I'm sure you mean .380acp by .38, 12GA.

I came close to buying a Sig230 a few years ago (very similar pistol to the 232), but felt it was a bit beefy for a .380acp. I chose a K9 instead and pat myself on the back daily for that decision.

Kentucky Rifle
January 10, 2004, 12:20 PM
Being the same size is great. However, when I reach into my safe for a small auto (even if it's going in a belt holster) my hand comes out with the PM9.
It's a LOT lighter. The "duo-tone" MK9 was just so good, what can I say? I'm a weak man when it comes to beautiful, I bought both. I've shot the MK about 10% of the time I've shot the PM. <shrug> (It's STILL pretty though!)

Hey, you people who talk about the Sphinx do I get one? It's the only auto my wife wants. It's just because of the wonderful Swiss vacations we've had. We can't even stand (well, THIS is embarrassing) to throw away the boxes that our Swiss stuff came in.
What'er ya' gonna do? We love the place.


January 10, 2004, 06:39 PM
You can surf GunsAmerica and get a decent deal on one...or you can PM me and Ill have my dad send one locally to your FFL.....I can get one CHEAP!
PM me for details......................Shoot well.

January 10, 2004, 07:43 PM
My NAA .380 is tiny and reliable.

January 10, 2004, 09:44 PM
I agree that the Kahr PM9 is the way to go for pocket carry. 3.5" match grade barrel and an overall quality firearm. I carried a KT P-32 for years and for a short while the P3AT. I love those Kel-Tecs but decided to go with the larger 9mm. The PM9 is also smaller than my Kel=Tec P=11.

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