Help on leading in my 45


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glockky
April 2, 2011, 10:31 AM
Ok first off i will admit i am ignorant to loading lead bullets. I have reloaded for about 8 years but this is my first go around with lead bullets, figured i would try them because they are much more economical. So i bought MBC 185gr SWC BH 18 and loaded them to a mid level load of 4.5 gr tite group and loaded up some other with 5.0 grains of titegroup which is on the upper end according to my manuals. The 4.5 gr load shot great but i got a lot of leading right in front of the chamber maybe a 1/2 in. of so and the rest of the barrel was clean. So then i cleaned the barrel and shot the 5 gr loads which shot all over the place and gave me the same leading problems. I put a light taper crimp on these loads and seated them to 1.275 which is probably irrelavent.

So did i buy to hard of a bullet?

Do I need to change poweders i have some 231 and was thinking of giving it a whirt but wanted to see what u guys had to say on this issue?

And i am not even sure if the leading i have is a problem of if this is normal i mean it just looks waxy and was a real pain to remove right in front of the chamber but the rest of the barrel was clean.

Like i said i am ignorant to lead so school me on my probably i would appreciate it.

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Bmac1949
April 2, 2011, 10:44 AM
Glocky, I don't know if this will help but I can tell you my experience with this problem. Shooting a 200gr swc over 4gr of Bullseye was fouling the hell out of the barrel, mostly in the same spot that you are having trouble. On the advice of one of the more expierenced reloaders in this forum I increased the load by a half a grain and I had no problems with lead fouling after my last time out to the range. Wish you luck because I know what a pain it is to have to clean a badly fouled barrel.

hancjamk
April 2, 2011, 11:05 AM
I always shoot a mag full FMJ after I shot up all of my lead reloads. It gets most of it, if not all of it out. Saves a lot of elbow grease:D Stepping up the load is worth a try. Some barrels lead worse than others.

earplug
April 2, 2011, 11:17 AM
I had a problem with a LEE Factory crimp die, making the lead bullet undersized. This caused leading.
Bumping up the powder charge might fix your problem.
I would try a less aggressive crimp. When I load revolver cartridges I hardly ever had leading problems. The crimp at the end of the brass didn't effect the bullet or effect head space. With lead bullets and a taper crimp you have to find a happy medium between holding the bullet in the case and not deforming it.
Reloading for a semi pistol round has been a bit harder to figure out.

918v
April 2, 2011, 11:35 AM
So did i buy to hard of a bullet?



Maybe. I prefer their 12 BHN bullets. Each gun is different. How did you seat the bullet? Did you leave a smidgeon of the bullet shank sitting past the case mouth, or did you seat it flush with the case mouth? Did you seat and crimp at the same time? Did the case mouth shave lead off the shank?

Steve C
April 2, 2011, 11:45 AM
Leading at the chamber end indicates either an undersized bullet or one that's too hard for the pressure you are using. In either case you are not geting the proper seal in the bore.

If you go to MB technical data and use their formula and calculate the pressure needed for your 18 BNH bullets you will find it comes out to 23036.4 CUP. Since the SAAMI maximum CUP pressure (old standard) is 19,900 CUP you can see the problem as according to Hodgdon's on line data 5.0grs of TG only makes 14,600 CUP with a jacketed 185gr.

You are going have to be at the upper end of the .45 pressure range to get the bullet to obturate and seal in the bore. You can try increasing you load to 5.5grs with TG (max Hodgdon) or go with a similar "heavier" load with another powder and see if that doesn't stop the leading.

If you wanted to shoot lighter loads in the .45 acp you should have ordered the 12 BNH Bullseye #2 bullet which would put the pressures at the level you started at.

glockky
April 2, 2011, 12:07 PM
It did not shave off lead and i did not seat the bullet flush, i just put a very light taper crimp on the round i think it measure .470 and i did it in a seperate station.

glockky
April 2, 2011, 12:10 PM
Yeah see i am just learning at the lead stuff and after i bought the bullets i found where guys had said to buy the 12BH bullets for target loads but me being ignorant bought the 18's because i thought harder would mean less leading but now i can understand if the bullet doesnt seal because its too hard that causes problems too thanks for the help guys.

blarby
April 2, 2011, 12:12 PM
Way to go on accurate info Steve !

*takes notes*

Going to be using that info shortly :)

rcmodel
April 2, 2011, 12:14 PM
The 4.5 gr load shot great but i got a lot of leading right in front of the chamber maybe a 1/2 in.Is this in a stock Glock poly barrel?
If so, and the load shoots great.
And the leading doesn't continue to grow on down the barrel the longer you shoot?
You don't have a problem.

I'd say the bullets are just slipping in the poly rifling before they can get up to full rotational speed.

A bronze bore brush should knock it right out.

rc

Mr.Revolverguy
April 2, 2011, 12:21 PM
Just becareful if it is the normal glock barrel. but I would also say change your powder tite group burns really hot and will melt the base of some lead bullets. I had the same thing in my 357magnum noticed leading at the forcing cone and beginning of the barrel. My theory is this is when tite group is at it's hottest. I changed to a slower powder universal which is so much cleaner and no leading. Both loads gave the same fps across the chrono. Now I use universal in 357 and 44mag for medium loads and wow what a difference.

RugerBob
April 2, 2011, 12:21 PM
For my 45s I use .452 with lead and .451 with jacketed. I did not see what size you got. Could be undersized or 'that glock barrel'.

glockky
April 2, 2011, 04:21 PM
The bullets are .452 and i am shooting it in the factory glock barrel . And before anyone posts it I know you are not suupose to do it but with a low pressure round like the 45 I am not worried about, and have talked to lots of guys on here who have shot thousands of lead bullets in the glock barrels.

nyc71
April 3, 2011, 09:27 AM
What does 12BH means?

Dewey 68
April 3, 2011, 10:31 AM
What does 12BH means?

It measures 12 on the Brinell hardness scale.

nyc71
April 4, 2011, 01:22 AM
Thank you, I still don't understand. I'm only been reloading about a year, so much to learn.

Ridgerunner665
April 4, 2011, 01:47 AM
Some guys do shoot lead in factory Glock barrels...but they also know the "quirks" of lead in that type of barrel...

Low pressure...you won't think its very low when the chamber lets go (i.e. Its only 17-19,000 psi when the bullet moves, but when the bullet sticks...it goes MUCH higher...probably near 40,000 psi before the barrel gives out)

ljnowell
April 4, 2011, 02:49 AM
I find that I get a little lead after chamber, but not much in my G21 with MBC softball, which is a BHN of 18 also. I find that after a mag there is some lead there and after 10 rounds there is still the same amount of lead there. Not a big deal at all.

I have tried a 12bhn bullet in G21 and it worked fairly well, I did get a little less lead at the front edge of the rifling, but I also had to slow them down so much that they weren't much fun to shoot.

I would try another powder and see if you can get it to decrease. I dont care much for tightgroup. I find it burns hot, scorches brass pretty bad, and usually has more leading than other powders. I love AA#2 with a lead bullet. I use it in several calibers. My Missouri Bullet softball 230gr LRN load uses 5.5gr of AA#2 and it is the single most accurate load I have ever shot from my 3.5" 1911. Bullseye would be another good powder to try, IMO. I think every reloader has at some point or another. The 231 you have would be leaps and bounds better, in this reloaders opinion. Like I said, I just dont like tightgroup.

ArchAngelCD
April 4, 2011, 03:40 AM
Thank you, I still don't understand. I'm only been reloading about a year, so much to learn.
Lead bullet hardness is reported and measured on a BHN scale. The higher the number the harder the bullet. I'm not completely sure but I think pure lead will measure 5 BHN and wheel weights will measure 10 BHN. Bullets are made of alloy, not pure lead. Adding Tin or Antimony will harder the lead. The amount used will determine how hard.

For most shooting application at normal pressures a BHN of 12 is fine. Pushing the bullets up past 1000 fps will usually require something in the 15 BHN range although it's the pressure, not the velocity that requires a harder bullet. BUT, usually with more pressure comes higher velocities. (but not always) Magnum pressures and velocities will require something in the 18 BHN range and possible harder. Laser Cast bullets are reported to be in the 21-22 BHN range which is VERY hard.

Hope that helps a bit, if not just ask more questions.

MarkDozier
April 4, 2011, 04:08 AM
I use IDPA (brinell 18) 200 gr SWC from MBC with 4.0 gr of Clays and no problem qith leading in either of my 45's

ArchAngelCD
April 4, 2011, 04:28 AM
That's why I use words like "usually", "normally", "possibly" and "most times" in my posts because nothing is absolute.

steve4102
April 4, 2011, 09:32 AM
The bullets are .452 and i am shooting it in the factory glock barrel . And before anyone posts it I know you are not suupose to do it but with a low pressure round like the 45 I am not worried about, and have talked to lots of guys on here who have shot thousands of lead bullets in the glock barrels.


The chamber pressure has little to do with Lead in a Glock. It's all about the rifling and how it affects the lead bullet. As stated above, if you are using a Glock barrel and you are getting leading, then you do not have a problem with your load, it's the barrel.

1911 Fan
April 5, 2011, 09:18 AM
I bought cast bullets from a local supplier. They shot well but leaded my barrel pretty good. I found an archive thread on THR that suggested trying equal parts white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Soaked it for 10 min and is was CLEAN!! Remember to dispose safely. Lead poisoning would not be fun.

glockky
April 5, 2011, 09:17 PM
thanks for all the info guys it is much appreciated. I am just trying to find a way to shoot cheaper, so i am giving lead a whirl. And i have learned alot about it on here.

Smaug
April 6, 2011, 01:29 PM
I get leading no matter which gun and load I use with lead bullets. I'm not buying them any more. It's worth it to me not to have to spend all that time getting the lead out.

I don't have time to jerk around with all these variables. Unless the gun is a real oddball, it should be a matter of 0.451 for jacketed or plated, and 0.452 for lead. More than one person said use more powder, but I don't see how that will reduce leading. Does it mean that one can't shoot light loads with lead bullets without leading? Again, not worth it. I'm spending the extra few bucks on plated bullets from now on. They were never such a hassle.

ljnowell
April 6, 2011, 02:19 PM
I don't have time to jerk around with all these variables. Unless the gun is a real oddball, it should be a matter of 0.451 for jacketed or plated, and 0.452 for lead. More than one person said use more powder, but I don't see how that will reduce leading. Does it mean that one can't shoot light loads with lead bullets without leading? Again, not worth it. I'm spending the extra few bucks on plated bullets from now on. They were never such a hassle.
__________________



Some people dont have the patience or ability to deal with loading lead bullets, thats OK. Thats why they make plated and jacketed bullets. Lead bullets require you to do your homework and use the proper harndess of bullet for the application. If you are getting leading at the chamber end of the barrel only, for say, a 1/2", then in many cases you can get rid of it by adding more powder. When you dont have enough pressure to obturate the base of the bullet(sealing it to the bore by making it expand from the pressure) you will get that kind of leading. This can be solved by using a softer bullet, instead of less pressure, allowing you to shoot a softer load. It isnt hard, but it isnt for everyone.

Sin City Shootist
April 6, 2011, 02:56 PM
In my short experience with lead, I've found that using a Lee FCD shaves the bullet. I would of never figured that out until I had to take one apart and found shavings in the powder as I was dumping it out of the puller. Also during cleaning I found the same shapes of lead coming out of the barrel.

As mentioned above, Clay's works great with lead and the 45, at least for me.

The guys here will tell you that the fastest way to removing lead is an old brush wrapped with a section of ChoreBoy pure copper scrub pads(check Ace Hardware).

I've shot hundreds of MBC lead bullets out of my G21 without cleaning and no excessive leading.

1911 Fan
April 8, 2011, 08:58 PM
I am with you Smaug. I found a bullet from X-treme. $54 plus shipping for 500 FMJs. You can find them on Google but the only place I know of to get them is out of LoLo Sporting Goods in Lewiston, Idaho (my ol' stompin grounds). Not sure of where else. If anyone has other cheap plated bullets please post the information.

GLOOB
April 8, 2011, 09:37 PM
^ You didn't mention the caliber. I buy Berry's 9mm, 1000 for $66, or so, from PV. Berry's 230 gr RN are only 113 per 1k.

Despite a very little bit of leading, cast bullets are now my preferred choice for my revolver. Plated bullets don't have a crimp groove, and jacketed bullets are more expensive. The crimp groove makes setting the seating die a snap, and I can seat and crimp in one step. That saves a lot more time than the 2 minutes it takes to clean out any leading. Plus, Berry's .357 bullets aren't quite as cheap as the luger, so I can save a bit more.

1911 Fan
April 9, 2011, 12:10 AM
Sorry, they have varied calibers.

oldfortyfiveauto
April 9, 2011, 10:02 AM
I've been messing around with PB Blocker in my 32's and so far it seems to be working.

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