Went to my first gun show yesterday and scored some IMI .357 Magnum +P. Questions!


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intercooler
April 3, 2011, 12:41 PM
I mainly got it due to the +P.... I like the hot stuff!! I have a Ruger GP100 and Ruger members say I better not shoot it. It is 170gr +P and also says Match Grade on the box. Distributed by Samson. I really want to shoot it but not at risking injury or destruction. I can't find any info and even sent IMI an e-mail.

Anyone have Chrony or info on what to expect from this ammo?

Is the +P more of a marketing gimmick?

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The Lone Haranguer
April 3, 2011, 02:31 PM
Is the +P more of a marketing gimmick?
It would have to be, because AFAIK there is no SAAMI standard for a +P .357 Magnum. :scrutiny: In fact, that would be oxymoronic. In any event, your hand will probably give out before a Ruger GP100 will. :cool:

Drail
April 3, 2011, 04:21 PM
While Ruger's GP 100 is indeed a very fine and strong revolver if fed enough of the "hot" stuff you most certainly can wear one out. I have one that if I put it on a table for sale, one good look at the forcing cone and the ratchet peened breech face you would set it down and walk away. +P loads in a 357. Mag are totally unnecessary and a steady diet is hard on any revolver. I used to think they were "fun" also but I finally learned.

intercooler
April 4, 2011, 08:52 AM
I may get a chance to pop one of today to see. I wouldn't feed it a steady diet of these but a couple everytime out.

SaxonPig
April 4, 2011, 09:45 AM
+P Magnums? Never heard of it. I bet it is simply loaded to max pressure and they call it +P. Most ammo has been down-loaded in recent years on advice of legal counsel.

I load my 357 ammo to 1725 FPS with a 125 JHP (clocked from a 5" barrel). I wonder how this compares to this +P offering?

9mmforMe
April 4, 2011, 11:04 AM
I too had never heard of +P .357 magnum ammo. hmmm?

DWFan
April 4, 2011, 05:25 PM
+P in a Magnum is a marketting label; not a SAAMI standard. It refers to Magnum ammo loaded to the Magnum's original 43-46 cup levels instead of the current castrating 35 kpsi SAAMI standard. Norma, IMI and Super-Vel used to be at these levels. The GP-100 can handle these loads. SaxonPig, your 125gr loading would be considered +P if it exceeds 35 kpsi, which I have no doubt that it does since most SAAMI ammo generates approx. 1450 fps. If I'm not mistaken, IMI ammo was made with Accurate Arms powders and I believe the 170gr bullet they used for the .357 was the Sierra JHC.
The IMI ammo might have collector value though and you might not want to shoot it because of that. There is data available from Accurate Arms to duplicate these kinds of rounds if you handload. The 170gr Sierra JHC is no longer available though.

harmon rabb
April 4, 2011, 06:36 PM
lol. if a GP100 can't take it, then no 357 revolver can.

Drail
April 4, 2011, 11:03 PM
I think we should maybe roughly define the term "take it". Does "take it" mean that the firearm won't blow parts or does it mean it won't be damaged or reduced to less than perfect condition (loosened up or undergo top strap flame cutting/forcing cone erosion) by shooting "hotter than factory spec" ammunition.:scrutiny: Kuhnhausen's Ruger revolver manual has quite a few photos of Ruger DA revolvers that, maybe did not undergo rapid disassembly, but were obviously damaged by using very hot ammo. And I have seen abused Rugers personally. They are very hell for stout firearms but the idea that they are indestructable is just not realistic.

32 Magnum
April 5, 2011, 12:35 PM
The IMI SAMSON brand was made in Israel and could very well excede SAAMI standards.

glocking26
April 5, 2011, 02:09 PM
That ammo was made to shoot in the open bolt full auto IMI UZI. The Uzi runs better on hot ammo because of the heavy bolt.

intercooler
April 5, 2011, 05:37 PM
That is bad info. They never made an Uzi that shoots .357. They still do make the 9mm ammo for that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi

CraigC
April 5, 2011, 06:03 PM
if a GP100 can't take it, then no 357 revolver can.
That's not necessarily true. There are stronger .357's on the market than the GP. The Colt SAA, its replicas and the mid-frame Blackhawk come to mind, not to even mention the large frame Blackhawk, S&W N-frames and Freedom Arms guns.

equalizer
April 5, 2011, 06:25 PM
Dan Wesson MMMMM

glocking26
April 5, 2011, 06:47 PM
My bad I read it wrong I was thinking 9mm

19&41
April 5, 2011, 06:47 PM
Would these be intended for a Desert Eagle?

dagger dog
April 5, 2011, 06:50 PM
I.M.I. ammunition is constructed to C.I.P standards (Commision Internantional Permanente) which is the European counter part to S.A.A.M.I. They both adhere to strict standards in ammunition manufacture, to help keep the fingers on our hands.
I beleive it is a marketing ploy.

roaddog28
April 5, 2011, 08:28 PM
There are stronger 357 magnums than the GP100. The new model Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk in 357 magnum and finally the Freedom Arms. Even in these stroud revolvers I would limit my use of +P "357" magnums?

Regards,
Howard

intercooler
April 6, 2011, 10:48 AM
It looks pretty decent out so I'm going to pop one off and see. I will do this after shooting Winchester 125gr to see if it is much hotter.

DWFan
April 6, 2011, 11:33 AM
The C.I.P standard for the .357 Magnum is 44 kpsi.

intercooler
April 6, 2011, 01:07 PM
I'm back! I had full protection on... ear plugs, ear muffs, gloves and prescription safety glasses. I was gearing up for a big blast... Big let down! I started off shooting some .45 ACP to warm things up. I went from that to the Ruger shooting Fiocchi 142gr. FMJTC, Winchester WinClean 125gr JSP, Wolf 158gr SP and finally put one Samson 170gr +P FMJ in all by itself. I would say falsely advertised and more suited to the second lable on the box "Match Grade".
The Samson/IMI +P shot really accurate but bang and recoil was the lowest of the bunch. After shooting more of the WinClean 125gr this is quickly becoming my favorite to shoot ammo due to biggest pop and leaving the gun clean. My next favorite so far is Wolf which is dirty but has a good pop and cheap. I really didn't want to shoot this much ammo today but when you start hard to stop! Ranking of most pop to least:

- WinClean 125gr JSP WC3571 1290 FPS
- Wolf 158gr SJHP G357HP1 1219 FPS
- Fiocchi 142gr FMJTC 357F 1160 FPS
- Samson/IMI 170gr FMJ+P 357-34A probably 1050 FPS??

DWFan
April 6, 2011, 04:34 PM
Very interesting. So all the warnings were for naught. I have to admit to being surprised at this and wonder if you didn't purchase a box of reloads.

Cosmoline
April 6, 2011, 04:56 PM
I'm not surprised. The whole thing sounds bogus.

As far as strength, the strongest .357 I know of would be the rare REDHAWKS that were made in that chambering.

intercooler
April 6, 2011, 07:30 PM
Naa. It has +p marked in the brass and they put a red mark on the primer/brass that a reloader couldn't do. Just weak

Lucky Derby
April 7, 2011, 12:12 AM
That ammo was made to shoot in the open bolt full auto IMI UZI. The Uzi runs better on hot ammo because of the heavy bolt.
There was an UZI made in .357 Magnum?!

I suspect it was made for the Desert Eagle Semi Auto pistol.

Remo223
April 7, 2011, 12:24 AM
So 357mag is down loaded nowdays eh? I wondered about that cuz I've shot some hot 38specials that kick as much as my recent purchased 357mags.

intercooler
April 7, 2011, 08:13 AM
No Uzi .357

intercooler
April 7, 2011, 08:32 AM
Yea unless you buy buffalo bore or premium ammo. .44 mag is .44 special, 10mm is .40, .357 is .38 special, etc.. None of it shoots true to it's potential

Old Shooter
April 7, 2011, 09:01 AM
If you want more pop from your 357 mayby you should look around for one of the Dan Wessons chambered in (I believe) 357 Maximum. It is a case a bit longer than the 357 magnum and is supposed to be a good bit hotter.

I believe it was too much for some revolvers due to top strap cutting or barrel throat erosion but the Dan Wesson was supposed to be able to tolerate it better due to replaceable barrels.

Do they even make the ammo or guns for it anymore?

Remo223
April 7, 2011, 10:27 AM
no. 357max no longer exists. Dan wesson revolvers weren't that great either. I have one. They are built like a tank and the cylinder and barrel are nicely designed. But the trigger sucks. They might as well be single action only.

intercooler
April 7, 2011, 12:30 PM
Bad info here again. Reed's Ammo does make a pretty long line of .357 Maximum. Trust me I asked them many questions!

.357 Max. 158g Soft Point
20 Rounds Per Box, New Loaded Ammunition, (click for more details)
Item #: 357mx158sp
Price: $19.43
..357 Max. 170g Speer Gold Dot
20 Rounds Per Box, New Loaded Ammunition, (click for more details)
Item #: 357mx170gdsp
Price: $21.00
..357 Max. 180g Hawk FP 1800FPS
20 Rounds Per Box, New Loaded Ammunition, (click for more details)
Item #: 357MX180HWK
Price: $26.14
..357 Max. 180g Hornady XTP
20 Rounds Per Box, New Loaded Ammunition, (click for more details)
Item #: 357MX180X
Price: $21.60
..357 Max. 180g Hornady SSP
20 Rounds Per Box, New Loaded Ammunition, (click for more details)
Item #: 357mx180SSP
Price: $22.62
..357 Max. 180g Silhouette HCGC
20 Rounds Per Box, New Loaded Ammunition, (click for more details)
Item #: .357MX180gSilo

intercooler
May 10, 2011, 02:26 PM
Bought my own chrony. It did 1195.7/539.8 out of my 4" barrel

NMGonzo
May 10, 2011, 08:35 PM
Dan Wesson MMMMM

You rang? :evil:

Blue Brick
May 11, 2011, 12:59 AM
As far as strength, the strongest .357 I know of would be the rare REDHAWKS that were made in that chambering.

+ 1

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