Range Report .30-30


PDA






blarby
April 3, 2011, 10:42 PM
165 gr .311 Whitetails from MBC
7.2 Gr Unique
CCI LRP #200
2.530 COAL
2.5 gr concentrated hope

Wow, what an AMAZING range day !

Not only did I come home with three buckets of mixed range treasure and boxes- but my long awaited test of MBC leadware was a great success.

Sighting in from using a high-power jacketed load to this one was amusing...I actually thought the first shot was a squib, and used my boresnake to verify that the round had in fact exited the rifle.

After that fouling shot, sightin was a snap- albeit at about a 10 inch drop from my jacketed loads.

Very light winds, sorta sunny- beautiful range day with tons of folks, including a fella next to me and my wife with his son shooting his first .30-30...who was nice enough to GIVE me all of their brass :)

There was a small and nearly insignificant amount of lead removed by the boresnake at ten shot intervals- but nothing compared to trying to remove copper fouling- thats for sure !

This is an amazingly cheap round to produce for punching paper, had only slightly more recoil than my .22, and was EXCITINGLY accurate when I was.

Please see attached photos !


Jech : Great recipe, tons of fun.

Brad : Awesome bullets, keep churnin 'em out. I was very, VERY happy with my results right out of the block. This weekend started rough, but the ending run couldn't have been better thanks to you !

If you enjoyed reading about "Range Report .30-30" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
blarby
April 3, 2011, 10:47 PM
Here are the free firing results, after the amusing setup period !

Not bad for 100 yards with a lever ! Especially considering the 15 cent cartridges.

Way past the minute of deer / hour of barnside I was expecting.

Loved it.

Not sure if ya could take a bear with it, but I already have shoulder destroying bullets for that !

ssyoumans
April 3, 2011, 10:54 PM
No doubt, these reduced loads sure make shooting the old 30-30 a lot more fun.

Faret
April 3, 2011, 11:36 PM
The only thing better is casting them yourself!

ArchAngelCD
April 4, 2011, 02:56 AM
I shot that bullet over 21.0gr H4895 and from a Marlin Carbine it produced 1340 fps. After sighting in I was able to hit 3 for 3 empty shotshell cases @50 yards. That's plenty accurate IMO.

MarkDozier
April 4, 2011, 04:16 AM
a few questions
Was this done off hand. benched or prone?
scope or iron sights?
Whose load data did you use
what male/model rifle

blarby
April 4, 2011, 04:19 AM
Seated.

Scoped.

Jechs'

Marlin 336 .

ArchAngelCD
April 4, 2011, 04:24 AM
blarby,
That's some good shooting you did there. Did you check the velocity generated by 7.2gr of Unique?

blarby
April 4, 2011, 04:35 AM
Unfortunately no, I'm going to have to trust Jechs chrono results on this one.

Sometimes, things get left at home.


two weeks ago it was my spotting scope..........go figure.

GooseGestapo
April 4, 2011, 10:40 AM
Velocity with that load will be right about 1,250-1,300fps.

About the same as a .22lr

ssyoumans
April 4, 2011, 12:28 PM
1182 - 1200fps is what he measured and reported in another thread.

blarby
April 4, 2011, 06:45 PM
Next batch I'm going to try two loads :

7.5 gr Unique

22 Gr H4895

Now that i'm into processing the brass from this shoot- another benefit : Very little case stretching at all.

of 50 cases, only 7 needed to be cut. I expect great brass life.

PapaG
April 4, 2011, 07:36 PM
Been reloading since 1958, commercial for fifteen years, handgun, rifle, jacketed, lead, shotshell, slugs and I've never heard of "concentrated hope"....what is it?

Maybe it is what I need for that 250 yard shot at the trotting coyote......a hope and prayer.

blarby
April 4, 2011, 07:54 PM
Concentrated hope is a combination of elbow grease and prayer. :)

It often has a dash of good intentions thrown in for good measure, but its the least reliable of the ingredients.

bglz42
April 4, 2011, 09:39 PM
Great post! Try Red Dot also... its my favorite load of all ...

FROGO207
April 5, 2011, 07:55 AM
I will chime in here and suggest trying Trail Boss if you have any with these bullets. I am using it with some Laser Cast 170's and it is a good load in my 94. Next time I need some I will get them from Brad for sure.:D

blarby
April 5, 2011, 10:33 AM
Given my current stockpile of unique and h4895- I dont think a new powder is in the works anytime soon.

I will keep that in mind, however.

blarby
April 6, 2011, 02:16 PM
Ok, so...according to hodgdons :

160 GR. CAST LFN Hodgdon H4895 .308" 2.485" 17.5 1351 15,200 CUP 21.0 1562 23,100 CUP

22 grs is a no-no ......but the pressure is far under what this brass can handle.

Are we looking at a limitation based on what the bullet can handle in this instance, not the brass ?

cthulhufan
April 6, 2011, 05:42 PM
Excellent, I've been meaning to get into this very thing for my 336 30/30. Very glad to hear you having good luck.

Question:
You said you used the .311 Whitetails from MissouriBullet? I only see them in .309.

FROGO207
April 6, 2011, 06:09 PM
The loads published will work with all 30-30's even the old ones. The 336 will take a hotter load than the old Winchester is capable of eating. you can try to up the pressure at your own risk while watching for pressure signs along the way. In my 94's and the 336 that I have they all shoot well below max. The savage bolt 30-30 that I have however can take 15% above max. CAUTION I DO THIS IN MY RIFLE ONLY. I can single load with heavier pointed bullets but they will not fit the magazine however. With light pointed jacketed bullets it is a tack driver and will rival my 300 savage all day long. A lot of the problems encountered with lead bullets IMHO is trying to drive them way too fast without a gas check. I use Laser Cast 170's and can drive them almost as fast as the jacketed starting velocity in the 336C with the microgroved barrel and still keep my accuracy. But I am using .309 dia lead bullets. I tried .310 lead and that did not make any detectable difference so I went back to .309 to assure a lower pressure round. YMMV

blarby
April 6, 2011, 10:00 PM
Great accuracy , thankfully, isn't the issue.

Trying to find that last little bit might be, but thats further down the road.



Lets see how I can tune between 19-21 grains.

Thanks for the info.

ljnowell
April 6, 2011, 10:42 PM
Looks like some good results! Another happy Missouri Bullets customer, not a surprise really. Now get yourself some more Missouri Bullets, you can find yourself like me, I reload them in every caliber I reload, except 223.

blarby
April 7, 2011, 09:48 PM
"Excellent, I've been meaning to get into this very thing for my 336 30/30. Very glad to hear you having good luck.

Question:
You said you used the .311 Whitetails from MissouriBullet? I only see them in .309."

You can special order different sizings.

Mail brad, and he'll let ya know what ya gotta do, and if he has any on the shelf for fast shipment !

Jech
April 8, 2011, 09:45 AM
Ok, so...according to hodgdons :

160 GR. CAST LFN Hodgdon H4895 .308" 2.485" 17.5 1351 15,200 CUP 21.0 1562 23,100 CUP

22 grs is a no-no ......but the pressure is far under what this brass can handle.

Are we looking at a limitation based on what the bullet can handle in this instance, not the brass ?

This is a classic example of a powder manufacturer publishing deliberately reduced velocity data for a specific purpose. In this case, they kept their max velocity under 1600fps to control leading with a plain-based bullet.

Personally, I've found that H4895 burns too slow to be effectively down loaded that much, accuracy was atrocious. Until I go sink a few bucks on a pound of 2400, Unique will remain my go-to for these mousefart loads.

Besides, why would you wanna blow 16-20gr of powder per shot when something else will do the same job with 10gr or less? Doesn't seem very fiscally responsible to me! :D

Edit: I've tried H4895 charges ranging from 16gr to 27gr behind RanchDog's TLC311-165-RF and found that until I hit 25gr, the burn was fairly inconsistent and left a lot of gunk behind. Completely different bullet I know but the important thing I noted was that there were no pressure signs whatsoever throughout that range. Just my $0.02, no fancy equipment to confirm my observation.

blarby
April 8, 2011, 01:28 PM
Well, in the interest of science FWIW I made 50 @ 20, 50 @ 20.5, and 50 @ 21.

Arch says he gets good results in there- just looking for other options.

I'm gonna load a few near the upper end 26-27 after, and see what shakes loose.

Worse case scenario, if they don't turn out real good in the 20's- I can just break em down with the lyman hammer, and start over :)


Also, at the request of the wife I removed the new bipod...so I'll be back to sandbags next time !

She liked the recoil on the reduced loads, but not the accuracy difference between full power jacketed and these.

I know, its like an inch thing....but ............. :)

ssyoumans
April 8, 2011, 01:40 PM
Carolina cast bullets sells those ranch dogs with a gas check for $12/100, sized .309 or .310. I am thinking about picking up a few hundred of them to try. I would think they offer the versatility of loading from 1100fps plinker - 1900 fps hunter with minimal if any leading across the range. I've read several very favorable posts about them on a few other forums.

http://www.carolinacastbullets.com/Ranch_Dog_Outdoors.html

Jech, Why did you switch over to trying the MBC whitetails? Were you disappointed with the Ranch dogs? Any insight appreciated.

blarby
April 12, 2011, 05:12 PM
Allrighty.

The 20.0, 20.5, and 21.0 gr versions with a 165 gr whitetail on top were a flop for me...

Could get them on paper, but far less accurate than the 7.2grs of unique- although there was almost zero leading. Also, extremely smoky IMHO.

Good thing I only made 50 of each.....Wheres that lyman hammer........?

I will add that they were fairly accurate at 25 and 50 yards if shooting pie plates is what you had in mind....out at the 100 berm they suffered perilously.

Going to try and measure the unique up and down along the 7-8 gr range, and see if I can find what I was looking for.

Jech
April 13, 2011, 09:26 AM
Allrighty.

The 20.0, 20.5, and 21.0 gr versions with a 165 gr whitetail on top were a flop for me...

Could get them on paper, but far less accurate than the 7.2grs of unique- although there was almost zero leading. Also, extremely smoky IMHO.

Good thing I only made 50 of each.....Wheres that lyman hammer........?

I will add that they were fairly accurate at 25 and 50 yards if shooting pie plates is what you had in mind....out at the 100 berm they suffered perilously.

Going to try and measure the unique up and down along the 7-8 gr range, and see if I can find what I was looking for.
Yup, your results mirror my own.

Jech
April 13, 2011, 09:33 AM
Carolina cast bullets sells those ranch dogs with a gas check for $12/100, sized .309 or .310. I am thinking about picking up a few hundred of them to try. I would think they offer the versatility of loading from 1100fps plinker - 1900 fps hunter with minimal if any leading across the range. I've read several very favorable posts about them on a few other forums.

http://www.carolinacastbullets.com/Ranch_Dog_Outdoors.html

Jech, Why did you switch over to trying the MBC whitetails? Were you disappointed with the Ranch dogs? Any insight appreciated.
Actually, I originally bought the MBC Whitetails to try out and goof around with while I waited for my Ranch Dog bullet mould to show up in the mail. My mould is one of his newest offerings having 3 cavities that are gas checked and 3 cavities that are plain (flat) based. I prefer casting my own to buying them commercially. This mould meets my needs for both full power *and* powderpuff loads where the MBC bullets are limited to plinking duty.

At this moment and for the next 4-6 weeks, my rifle is at the gun smith's to have some chamber work done so I have LOTS of time to get a bunch casted up, made 800 last night alone! =D

Note to self: order more gas checks...

popper
April 13, 2011, 10:29 AM
I guess the ranchdog bullets have to be tumble lubed. Do the GC bullets eliminate the leading problems of non-GC? I don't want to get into casting, but don't want to pay ~$30/100 (shipping included) for lead bullets. Also don't want to get 500 and find they don't work well. Please keep us posted on your results. Did the MBC #2 full load have bad accuracy or just a lot of drop?

blarby
April 13, 2011, 01:07 PM
Its accuracy @ 100 yards looked very similar to a galactic spiral.... The hotter loads, that is.

The un-checked rounds when driven to between 1300 and 1400 fps were excitingly accurate. As mentioned which Jech pioneered, and I seconded- 7.2 grs of unique as the champ for that loading.

blarby
April 13, 2011, 01:09 PM
Once jech gets some recipes he likes for the gas checked rounds, I'm sure that I will follow in his footsteps there :)

However, I'm very seriously considering some swagging equipment..both for personal use and eventually for part-time FFL use to justify its cost.

Jech
April 17, 2011, 10:55 AM
The few full power loads I tried with this bullet using H4895 were so inaccurate that I could not consistently hit a 2' by 2' board at 50 yards. It's just not designed for full power.

For now, using *my unique rifle*, I've been shooting the gas checked Ranch Dog bullets with W748 with magnum primers and getting results as good as they can be with my rifle's lack of a throat. Due to the nature of my problematic throat/leade, I won't post my OAL or charge weight for now.

blarby
April 17, 2011, 05:37 PM
fair enough. As it is between moving and my new project.... looks like the creative juices are going elsewhere !

ssyoumans
April 18, 2011, 10:39 AM
I gave up on pursuit of an accurate .311" MBC whitetail load using Blue Dot. I could not shoot more than 20-30 rounds before accuracy tanked. I'd get 5-6 groups of 4 before the leading would cause the groups to fall apart.

Experimented with 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, & 13 grains of Blue Dot from 1195 - 1589 fps. 10grs seemed pretty promising before it took a nose dive. Just don't think microgrrove and lead goes together, maybe better luck with the gas checked ones.

The Marlin 1894 in 44 mag works great with lead, no microgroove. Fired 60 rounds with no change in accuracy. It was shooting 1 large hole 4 shot groups at 25 yards and under 1.5" at 50 yards with 4x scope.

Easier to reloading the pistol round too! So, back to jacketed for me in the 30-30.

blarby
April 19, 2011, 12:44 AM
So today was my last day at the range here in California.

Wind was steady @ about 20-25 knots s-se, so I figured on the way out there that today was going to be poor at the very best.

When the wife and I arrived at the range, I was baffled....it was EMPTY. Great, no range scavenging today either. Not a single soul on the high-power rifle range.

So we decided to make the best of it, and since it was the last day and we were the only ones out there, we trucked out to the lone 150 yd target hang.


I could not have been more surprised if you had car-jacked me on the way in !

The 150 gr hornady round nose cut that wind like a knife.

Granted, this aint PALMA or anything- but I was amused to say the least.

We ran through about 140 rounds, and then went and rang the 200 yard gong on the rimfire range with my marlin bolt action for about an hour and went to leave.

As we were checking out, the RO busted out a 5 gallon pail of mixed rifle brass, and wished us the best of luck in oregon !

How great is that.

If you enjoyed reading about "Range Report .30-30" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!