Just one more step closer to cashless society


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JCOJR
December 26, 2002, 11:44 PM
http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=1062379&nav=1ugBD4bY

Kroger Testing New Fingerprint Checkout Technology
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Kroger is testing new technology to add speed and convenience at the check-out.

The nation's largest grocery chain is working with new technology called finger imaging. Even if you forget the cash or leave the plastic at home, all you need is your index finger.

At the checkout, a scanner reads you index print and automatically bills your account. It's something that about 10,000 customers have test marketed so far. Its very popular with students, as well as senior citizens who don't want to carry cash.

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nsf003
December 26, 2002, 11:48 PM
And one more step closer to tyranny.

No way am I going to let them scan my fingerprints.

What next, microchips? Digital Angel?:mad:

nsf

JCOJR
December 26, 2002, 11:53 PM
My thoughts exactly!

Tamara
December 26, 2002, 11:55 PM
As long as it's voluntary and optional and internal to a private corporation, I'm not going to get my Hanes in a half-hitch about it. (Won't participate, either, though.) I'm pretty sure Kroger's won't send men in black BDUs with machine pistols to kick in my door at night if I don't participate.

Those guys in that poorly-run corporation up on the Potomac, however, are a different color of horse entirely.

bfoster
December 27, 2002, 12:02 AM
My family stopped patronizing Kroger some years back when they first required a "membership" card to get reasonable pricing. Many other families here in Morrow County, Ohio have done the same. Lord knows what this firm is doing with the data they are collecting on the purchasing habits of individual consumers.

Bob

Blackhawk
December 27, 2002, 12:12 AM
This won't affect me directly for a couple of reasons:

There are no Krogers around here, and

I wouldn't participate in any vendor profiling schemes anyway.

I use credit cards at the grocery for the convenience, and I'm still fascinated at being able to leave home with a couple of bills, be gone for two weeks, and still have them when I return. And, credit cards are accepted at every decent sized store I go to anyway.

If I don't want to be tracked, I'd have to use ALL cash for everything, and even then paying for hotels and airline tickets will get you tagged anyway....

As far as I'm concerned, we've been in a cashless society for quite a while now, and certainly well before 9/11.

JCOJR
December 27, 2002, 12:17 AM
Tamara,

Like you, I'm not too concerned about an isolated food store chain.But, if this is deemed successful, our government will consider this a safety measure. Then, cashless transactions will be shoved on us like the Homeland Security measures. Give it a little time.

Monkeyleg
December 27, 2002, 12:31 AM
Remember that if it works 90% of the time at Kroger, then it's good enough for your self-defense gun. (Damn scanners can't even get the price of a frozen pizza right).

rock jock
December 27, 2002, 01:28 AM
Well, I think I'm going to run out and cut off Bill Gates finger right now.

Slotback
December 27, 2002, 01:48 AM
Reuters had a story on this yesterday. The store in Texas that they were referring to is not too far from my Dad's house.

I think I'll take my business elsewhere.

QuickDraw
December 27, 2002, 02:10 AM
At least when Safeway(west coast supermarket chain) started
their "club card",all you had to do was give phony info.:D
Be kinda hard to give'em phony fingers.

Diesle
December 27, 2002, 02:20 AM
Cnn.com had this...

Hey, 'they' just want to better understand your shopping habits and needs so that 'they' will be able to provide you the highest quality experience when visiting the shop. It’s all about customer service in a highly competitive market.

Cynics...

Diesle

:p

Dan Shapiro
December 27, 2002, 05:41 AM
...this type of biometrics has already been shown to be easily faked even with a latent thumb print. Almost a YEAR ago! :rolleyes:

His more interesting experiment involves latent fingerprints. He takes a fingerprint left on a piece of glass, enhances it with a cyanoacrylate adhesive, and then photographs it with a digital camera. Using PhotoShop, he improves the contrast and prints the fingerprint onto a transparency sheet. Then, he takes a photo-sensitive printed-circuit board (PCB) and uses the fingerprint transparency to etch the fingerprint into the copper, making it three-dimensional. (You can find photo-sensitive PCBs, along with instructions for use, in most electronics hobby shops.) Finally, he makes a gelatin finger using the print on the PCB. This also fools fingerprint detectors about 80% of the time.

http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0205.html#5

http://www.itu.int/itudoc/itu-t/workshop/security/present/s5p4.pdf

:eek: You mean the company selling these scanners would lie?!

Justin Moore
December 27, 2002, 07:03 AM
Training the children. No fingerprints, and no yum yum's for you:

http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=181

Should your children be required to submit 'fingerprints for food' at school?

WASHINGTON, DC -- A new "fingerprints-for-food" program -- which encourages children to submit their fingerprints to purchase school lunches -- is another frightening example of how law enforcement-style technology is being used to monitor children in public schools, the Libertarian Party said today.

"Should 7- and 8-year-olds be required to submit biometric identifiers so they can eat lunch?" asked Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "Should children in grammar school be treated like criminals for the convenience of public school bureaucrats? Or has schoolyard surveillance finally gone too far?"

This week, national attention has become focused on 35 public schools in Pennsylvania, where school officials have implemented an unprecedented "fingerprints-for-food" program.

Using technology supplied by a company called Sagem Morpho -- which also sells fingerprint-tracking devices to the FBI and the Secret Service -- schools such as the Welsh Valley Middle School encourage children to have a fingerprint scanned, and a numerical representation of it saved in the school's database.

Then, children can put an index finger on a scanner as they move through the cafeteria checkout line. The print is matched in the database, and the price of the lunch is deducted from the family's account.

School officials say fingerprinting speeds up lunch lines and ends the problem of lost or stolen lunch money. It's so successful, they say, the technology may be expanded to allow children to check out books from school libraries, board school buses, and have their attendance taken.

Not so fast, says Dasbach. Before schoolchildren are routinely fingerprinted, Americans need to ask:

* Do we want our children treated like criminal suspects?

"Fingerprinting isn't just for criminals any more -- now it's for schoolchildren who only want a hot lunch," noted Dasbach. "Is that the message we want to send about our children?"

* Do such programs desensitize children to government demands for biometric identifiers?

"Adults are reluctant to allow the government to build databases of biometric identifiers because we know how politicians can abuse such information, and because we understand the Constitutional prohibitions against such privacy-invading programs," he said. "Perhaps the most ominous thing about fingerprinting schoolchildren is that it conditions them to surrender biometric data whenever the government demands it."

* Will the government eventually misuse the information it collects?

"School officials insist these fingerprint images won't be used for any other purpose," said Dasbach. "But keep in mind, politicians once promised that Social Security numbers would never be used for general identification purposes, that IRS employees would never illegally divulge your income tax records, and that state motor vehicle departments would never sell your drivers license photo. Yet each of those things happened.

"So, should we trust school bureaucrats when they say they won't misuse your childrens' fingerprints in the future?"

* Are we sacrificing too much for the sake of efficiency?

"This fingerprinting procedure may indeed save time and money, like any other industrial assembly line procedure," said Dasbach. "But do we really want our children to be monitored like pieces of machinery?

"In a way, this new program exemplifies what is wrong with government-run education: It treats children like interchangeable cogs in a machine, rather than respecting each student as a unique individual."

In light of all these concerns, parents ought to find out whether their local school district is planning to start implementing a similar "fingerprints-for-food" program, and speak out against it, he said.

"Don't allow your children to be fingerprinted like criminals," he said. "Don't allow your children to be put under the government's thumb."

We should all just shut up, because, after all, its FOR THE CHILDREN ;)

iso1
December 27, 2002, 12:22 PM
This, of course, will end the debate between my wife and me on whether to homeschool.

My kids will NOT be attending public school. No way, no how.

ZekeLuvs1911
December 27, 2002, 04:09 PM
Anyone here familiar with the Bible book called Revelations?

TimH
December 27, 2002, 07:15 PM
"The mark of the Beast"
The implant chip worries me.

rock jock
December 27, 2002, 07:25 PM
Anyone here familiar with the Bible book called Revelations?
As a Christian, let me say that I am tired of people constantly pushing technologies and news stories into their pre-conceived notions of what the Book of Revelations means. I thought that armchair eschatologists would have shown some restraint after Hal Lindsey proffered his fantasy fiction of the 70's.

2nd Amendment
December 27, 2002, 08:42 PM
It's the Revelation and yes, our technology IS finally getting to the point of allowing a centrally controlled, cashless and utterly controllable society. All those who liked to predict Armageddon in the past always left out the need of technology, Middle East arrangement and communication in their self serving scenerios.

Now we've got it all, or are developing it. World government and controleld cashless society are just a matter of time. Armageddon? Well, we'll see.

ZekeLuvs1911
December 28, 2002, 01:54 AM
Say what you will Jock but I for one believe in the predictions of Revelations to our generation. I will offer no dates as no one knows when it will happen. I utterly respect your views on this matter of course. :)

2dogs
December 28, 2002, 02:04 PM
Well, I think I'm going to run out and cut off Bill Gates finger right now.

rock jock

You are strangely sick- in a good way. ;)

Justin Moore
January 10, 2003, 01:23 AM
It gets better...errr WORSE I mean.........

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-britain-retina-check0108jan08,0,4704923.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

By Associated Press

January 8, 2003, 4:31 PM EST


LONDON -- A new high school said Wednesday its students will be charged for their lunches with a retina scanning device to prevent poor children who eat for free from being ridiculed in the cafeteria.

Dr. Ed Yates, headmaster of the Venerable Bede school, said the advanced eye-recognition software will be in place when the institution opens its doors to 900 students in September in Sunderland, western England.

He said the school is concerned that if students are forced to pay for their lunches in cash the poor ones who receive food for free could be stigmatized. So officials have decided to make the entire school "cashless."

The retina scanning device also will be used in the library when students take out and return books, Yates said.

He assured parents the low-intensity light of the retina scanning devices will be safe for all students.

"We think we are the first (school) in the country to use this," he said of the device. "But this is not a James Bond school for spies. ... This is not science fiction. This is technology that exists."


:scrutiny:

redhead
January 10, 2003, 02:18 AM
I was at a furniture store a couple of weeks ago to buy a custom pad for my oak dining room table, and got my checkbook out to pay. The manager, who was taking my order, was asking me what card I was going to use. I said, "Check". He looked surprised, then said that , yeah, that'll work, but cash and checks are obsolete!! He still took my check. I don't usually carry very much cash, but don't like to charge things, and my debit card has it's limits. I was really amazed at his attitude.

Justin Moore
January 10, 2003, 02:42 AM
I've noticed that every time I go into the local post office, they allways gently 'remind' me that I can pay with plastic. In fact they seem to make a point of doing it. One time I quipped "Cash is still legal right?" and get a strange look.......

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