9mm & Green Dot


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Memnok
April 10, 2011, 09:53 PM
I am looking for some confirmation on Green Dot data for 124 grain Berrys plated. The only data I can find is for a swaged bullet. Shows 3.8 to 4.2 grains. I also took a look at the Ramshot Zip data because it burns at a similar speed. It shows 3.9 to 4.3 grains, also a lead round.

Think I can safely start the plated 124's out at 3.8 grains and work up from there?

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TonyT
April 10, 2011, 10:02 PM
The Alliant 2005 reloaders guide listed loads for several jacketed bullets. You may find the same data on the Alliant website. If you cannot fimnd the data PM me your e-mial and I can sendl you the page from the Alliant 2005 guide.

bds
April 10, 2011, 10:08 PM
During the "shortage" last year, when W231/HP38 got hard to find, I did a Green Dot comparison test - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=524547

I used smaller .355" diameter Rainier plated bullets for the test, so you may need to use a bit less for larger .3555"/.356" diameter Berry's plated bullets. They were all loaded to 1.125" OAL and shot out of G22/G27 using Lone Wolf barrels.

115 FMJ/4.4 gr - 7 yard 1.5" - 10 yard 2.5" - Light recoil

125 Plated/3.8 gr - 7 yard 1" - 10 yard 1" - 15 yard 2" - Light recoil
125 Plated/4.1 gr - 7 yard 2" - 10 yard 3" - Light recoil
125 Plated/4.4 gr - 7 yard 1.5" - 10 yard 3" - Moderate recoil

125 Lead/3.8 gr - 7 yard 1" - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 1.5" - Moderate recoil
125 Lead/4.1 gr - 7 yard 1.5" - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Moderate recoil

Recoil "felt" similar to comparable W231/HP38 loads and I got the most accurate shot groups with 3.8 gr of Green Dot. I thought about doing more tests at higher charges, but since I doing the comparison tests as W231/HP38 substitute for new reloaders I was helping set up, I just recommended that they use 3.8 gr until W231/HP38 became available again.

I hope this helps.

Memnok
April 10, 2011, 11:32 PM
The Alliant 2005 reloaders guide listed loads for several jacketed bullets. You may find the same data on the Alliant website. If you cannot fimnd the data PM me your e-mial and I can sendl you the page from the Alliant 2005 guide.

I have the 2009 Alliant guide, and it does not list any data for Green Dot and 9mm. If you have the page, that would be great. I'll sent you a PM.

I hope this helps.

Absolutely. I measured several of my Berrys plated and they were all .355, so your data should work for starters. I'm headed to your link to do some reading too.

gamestalker
April 10, 2011, 11:47 PM
I haven't heard of Green Dot loads in a long time. I don't think I've even seen any data for pistol loads with it. I used to load a lot of shotgun with it years ago.

Steve C
April 11, 2011, 12:19 AM
Alliants previous on line data for the 9mm with Green Dot loads shown.
9mm Alliant data 2004 (http://www.members.cox.net/scollins15/transfers_public/9mm%20luger.htm)

Memnok
April 11, 2011, 01:28 AM
Alliants previous on line data for the 9mm with Green Dot loads shown.

Thanks. Why in the world would they get rid of data for a powder they still make? Seems like poor marketing to me. There is no data at all for Green Dot in 9mm in the 2009 Alliant book I have. :confused:

bds
April 11, 2011, 02:22 AM
Steve, I appreciate you posting the load data but have wondered for some time why 115 gr FMJ charge weight is less than 125 gr FMJ?

When I did my Green Dot test, I did use your load data but thought this was a typo and stayed under 4.7 gr for 125 gr plated bullet (same for 125 gr lead bullet - actually, I stayed way less because the recoil was moderate even at lighter 3.8/4.1 gr charges). I thought better safe than sorry.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=140264&stc=1&d=1302502950

bds
April 11, 2011, 02:36 AM
Why in the world would they get rid of data for a powder they still make? Seems like poor marketing to me. There is no data at all for Green Dot in 9mm in the 2009 Alliant book I have.
Powder manufacturers usually have good reasons for pulling load data for particular powder (maybe they found the charges to be too spikey in pressure measurements for that particular powder or want to push their other powders).

Usually, I tend to go with the powder manufacturers when there's no current published load data, but Green Dot during the "shortage" was an exception. I mean, you couldn't find W231 or even HP38 anywhere! Thanks to some suggestions here on THR, I found Green Dot to be a viable substitute powder that was available.

Steve, as to the load data for Green Dot, I think the 4.7 and 5.2 gr may have been transposed. But the 5.2 gr for lead 125 gr still got me puzzled.

rcmodel
April 11, 2011, 12:33 PM
Why in the world would they get rid of data for a powder they still make?
One of the reasons Alliant no longer lists Green Dot with lead 9mm bullets is because Speer doesn't make any lead 9mm bullets.

Since ATK bought Alliant, the powder guide has been neutered to include only ATK/Speer bullets, and only a select few powders.

They used to list all Alliant powders in every caliber they were suitable for, with several bullet types & weights.
No longer after ATK/Speer got in the editing business.

I liked the pre-ATK Alliant powder Guides more better!

rc

Memnok
April 11, 2011, 12:58 PM
I liked the pre-ATK Alliant powder Guides more better!

I typed in "2004 alliant reloaders guide" and the first thing that came up was a link to the PDF. (http://www.google.com/search?q=2004+alliant+reloaders+guide&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) You are right, there is definitely more info in there. :confused:

Steve C
April 11, 2011, 03:03 PM
I appreciate you posting the load data but have wondered for some time why 115 gr FMJ charge weight is less than 125 gr FMJ?

The pressure for the 125gr load is higher by 2100 psi than the 115gr load but is well below SAAMI 35,000 psi maximum standard pressure. Data looks like it was stopped at a target velocity of 1,150 fps for both the 115 and 125gr FMJ bullets. Could be that this is a velocity where both perform well and higher velocity isn't beneficial in the eyes of the load developer.

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