[LHRGunslinger]

I read an article in the most recent edition of American Handgunner regarding the .38 Super. They said with the right load you could get it runnin almost as hot as a .357 Magnum. What do you guys think of the round hot or not?

[drw2514]

The .38 Super is a good round methinks but it's a little past its prime IMHO. It has been surpassed with more recent cartridges for semi-autos, notably the .357 Sig. Factory ballistics put a 125gr .38 super +P at about 1250 fps from a 5" barrel, and a 125gr .357 Mag at about 1450 fps from a 4" barrel. If you look at specialized ammo like Buffalo Bore, the super gets up to about 1350 fps and the mag up to about 1700 fps for the same bullet weights(all velocities claimed by manufacturer). That's quite a disparity, so the .38 Super is no match for the Mag as far as sheer performance. Whether you would want to shoot a 1700 fps .357 mag is another story, I suppose.

If I'm not mistaken, the .38 super was developed to better penetrate auto bodies in the late 20s or early 30s, something that the two most popular police cartridges of the time, the .45 ACP and the .38 special, could not do.

[LHRGunslinger]

I understand it's pretty much past its prime, but I like classics.

[drw2514]

It is especially appropriate if you are enamored of the 1911 platform, as the length of the cartridge better fits the magazine well of the 1911, helping to eliminate the possibility of some of the problems encountered when using shorter cartridges in that particular platform. Plus, like you said, it's a classic. Especially if the 1911 is nickel plated :cool:

And a 125gr HP going over 1200 fps is nothing to sneeze at.

[Z-Michigan]

I recently got one. I like it, but it's a toy for me. Within SAAMI pressure it's basically a 9mm +P to +P+, or right on the edge of a 357 SIG. You will not load it anywhere near a 357 Magnum while staying within SAAMI pressure. For a long time some IPSC shooters hot-rodded 38 Super to ridiculous pressures in order to make "major" with a relatively small, soft-recoiling cartridge. This works, but it requires a fully supported barrel and it's a bit risky. The change in major PF requirement (from 175 to 165) and lots of new calibers seems to have reduced the popularity of this.

There's relatively limited commercial ammo in 38 Super, so it really helps to be a handloader. If you are, it's a fun cartridge in a 1911.

If you look up maximum loads for a 357 Magnum using modern powders, still staying within SAAMI pressure limits, you'll see that almost none of the autoloader cartridges come anywhere close to it. Even 9x25 Dillon is barely there.

[surjimmy]

That's what Les Baer told me. IMHO It is a great range round and a Fantastic self defense round, BTW Mr. Baer really did tell me that when I called to ask some questions.

[38 Super Fan]

38 Super is just awful, it was introduced in 1929, it's outdated and way past it's prime. :neener:

[Zak Smith]

124 @ 1200 fps is 9x19 Para territory. Heck, Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P runs a 124gr GD at roughly 1300 fps from most service 9's.

Given the same bore size, performance scales with powder capacity. The .38 Super has more than 9x19, so when loaded to similar pressures the .38 Super will outperform 9. 38super.net lists factory .38 Super loads with a 124-125gr bullet at over 1300 fps, some over 1350 fps.

The evolution of the .38 Super might be said to be the 9x23-- strong case and no rim, like a grown-up 9x19.

The 9x23 and .38 Super are the .35" hot-rods for pistols that have an action the length of .45 ACP, and they are the natural choices for these pistols.

The .357 Sig was designed to fit in the 9x19/.40SW platform, and there is little reason to shoot it in a long-action (.45ACP size) pistol. In the shorter-action pistols, it's the hot-rod .35" choice.

So in practice, if you have a 1911/2011-based platform, the 9x23 or .38 Super is the way to go. If you have a .40 platform (e.g. Glock, USP, Sig, etc), the .357 Sig is the way to go.

For what it's worth, it is very unlikely anything you shoot at will be able to tell the difference between 9mm Para +P and either .357 Sig, 9x23, or .38 Super.

[USMC Vet]

Having owned a # of 38 supers over the years, IMHO it is one very fine caliber, IF you handload. It is nearly as effective as the 45 ACP, & without
the recoil. The 38 super is to the 1911 as the 44 spl is to the single action.
My .02 cents
USMC Vet

[RSVP2RIP]

The 9x23 Winchester has everything you are looking to do with a hotrodded 38 super, but all the work is already done. There are only 4 or 5 factory loads though which is really sad. The cartridge has a lot to offer over the 357 Sig: no bottle neck, stronger case, better fit in the 1911, higher magazine capacity potential and the ability to convert to 9x19 (and 38 super/super comp for that matter) with a barrel and spring. STI has a racegun chambered for it and you should be able to get most custom 1911 builders to make you one. Don't try to shoot one in an unmodified 38 super gun though...possible boom.

[Walkalong]

I like the .38 Super (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89535&d=1229646278) too. It can run pretty hot staying within SAMMI limits.

[451 Detonics]

I don't see what being an older cartridge has to do with it, 1350 with a 125 is more than sufficient for SD. Would it be better if it was only a few years old doing the same?

The 38 Auto was originally developed for law enforcement who wanted better penetration again car bodies and it has improved greatly as it has grown older. Add in it is very accurate cartridge and it is full of win!

[38 Super Fan]

Having owned a # of 38 supers over the years, IMHO it is one very fine caliber, IF you handload. It is nearly as effective as the 45 ACP, & without
the recoil. The 38 super is to the 1911 as the 44 spl is to the single action.
My .02 cents
USMC Vet

Welcome to the forum USMC Vet! I like the way you think. :D

[HisSoldier]

There's something nice about it not being just another one of the 50 gigagajillion 9MM parabellums out there, it's nice to have a bit more identity. I got to shoot a Springfield 38 Super and for some reason I really like the gun and cartridge combination.
As replacement for the .45 ACP it doesn't make sense to me when we have the awesome mighty 10MM though, if we needed to replace the .45, which of course most of us don't. :o

[1911Tuner]

The .38 Super is a fine cartridge. Factory ammo is downloaded quite a bit from its original specs due to the number of older guns and the Llama clones that were chambered for it...but a 125-130-grain bullet at 1150 fps ain't exactly a weak sister.

Cor-Bon's loadings offer some pretty impressive ballistics for it, too...just be careful that the gun you plan to use it in is up to the task. It's hot. Cor-Bon puts the 124-grain bullet into low-end .357 Magnum territory...exceeding Remington's "Attenuated" 125 grain JHP offering at 1280 fps...which Marshall and Sanow rated at about 82% one-shot stops...which puts it ahead of the .41 Magnum 210-grain "Police" load and the .38 Special +P 158 grain LSWCHP offering.

Although their data has proven to be flawed, and not to be taken as absolute...it still offers a decent basis for comparison between cartridges.

Once Bar-Sto broke ground by producing barrels that headspaced on the case mouth instead of the rim, the accuracy issues went away, and the Super Thutty eight is capable of impressive accuracy.

It's very likely the caliber that Browning would have built the 1911 around if he'd had a free hand in the matter, but the US Army specified a .45 caliber pistol...and it is what it is.

[Lunie]

Thutty-ate Soo-pah + 1911 = On my wish list.

A 9mm Parabellum and 9x23 Win barrel to fit on the .38 Super gun might be an excellent set of accessories.

[Leaky Waders]

I've wanted a 38 super for quite a while...but every time I start shopping for one I come away with another 45 acp - resistance is futile.

[TonyRumore]

In the VihtaVuori 3rd edition loading manual, it lists the 38 Super +P pushing a 124gr Hornady FMJ at 1594fps from a 5.5" barrel using 10.9gr of N105.

Seems a bit optimistic, but I haven't tried it.....maybe.

Tony

[BullfrogKen]

In the VihtaVuori 3rd edition loading manual, it lists the 38 Super +P pushing a 124gr Hornady FMJ at 1594fps from a 5.5" barrel using 10.9gr of N105.

Seems a bit optimistic, but I haven't tried it.....maybe.

That's just insane. My VihtaVuori data lists the same data, but I'm not attempting that.

I enjoy the 38 Super. Since it uses 9mm bullet components, it's less expensive to shoot than anything in 40 or 45 caliber. It's pleasant to shoot. And as a reloader, it's quite nice to load for.

Factory .357 Sig does outperform factory 38 Super. But if you load at home it is no comparison. The .357 Sig can't use all the 9mm components available on the market because of the probems with case neck tension. Nor can it take advantage of the heavier 9mm bullets that the 38 Super can. And as a bottleneck cartridge, it really sucks to load . . . have to lube the cases.


I've been using 38 SuperComp cases lately, and I really wished I had got turned onto them years ago. I chronied some 125gr loads using VihtaVuori 3N37 the other week, got them going 1320 fps out of a Commander barrel. I pushed some 147 gr loads 1150 fps; and they both felt pleasant.

9x23s really do not. Factory Silvertips go 1450 fps from my gun, and they're a real handful. When I didn't feel like sitting behind the load bench I used to buy factory 9mms to put through the gun before ammo prices got too crazy. But since the prices on factory ammo spiked, I make the time.

[Mainsail]

My dad still has his 38 Super Colt that he bought, I'm guessing, in the mid to late 50s, blued, and practically new still. I doubt he's ever even fired a whole box of ammo through it. I bring it up every now and again, but he's not ready to pass it along.

:(

[TonyRumore]

I use 38 SuperComp cases as well....never fired anything else. I had to modify the extractor on my Kimber to run them, but my Witness runs them just fine.

Tony

[squarles67]

It's high on my want list

I want one but it has to be a Colt and it has to be old enough to have "Super 38" on the slide:)

[TonyAngel]

As long as you have a barrel with a fully supported chamber, you can get pretty hot with a Super. I like the 9mm 1911s. They are very comfortable to shoot and a lot of fun. The only thing that I don't like about the Supers, 9X23s and 9X21s is sourcing the brass and having to pay for it. You can get pretty hot with a 9mm too, but dealing with the brass issue is a lot easier due to availability.

[BullfrogKen]

TonyA,

I've gotten all my brass through MidwayUSA. I did recently place an order directly to Starline for 1k pieces of SuperComp. So few shooters actually reload I usually find 9mm brass at the club so I've never had to buy any. But I never remember seeing the difference in 1k 9mm and 1k 38 Super being more than about 10 or 12 dollars. 9x23 on the other hand, that's always been considerably more expensive.


I wouldn't think about pushing 38 Super very hot without a supported chamber.


TonyR,

I didn't have to adjust my extractor to run 9x23, 9mm, or SuperComp. But then again it's not exactly a factory gun, either. Some people found they did have to adjust or replace an extractor when going from that semi-rim to a case without it; others had to do nothing. It all just depends on the gun.

[Hopkins]

I have a corrected series 80 commander in 38 super that shoots toe to toe with my Gold Cup . I used it as a carry gun until the Glock 23 became available. I would use it now as a carry gun but couldn't stand to lose it. The Glock can be replaced easily.

[Z-Michigan]

In the VihtaVuori 3rd edition loading manual, it lists the 38 Super +P pushing a 124gr Hornady FMJ at 1594fps from a 5.5" barrel using 10.9gr of N105.

VihtaVuori seems to make some seriously high energy pistol powders. I haven't found any US powder data that would push a bullet anywhere near that fast within SAAMI pressure. I'm slightly suspicious of the VV data, but they are a very well respected company.

[Dr.Rob]

I've had a 38 super on my wish list for a long time. No good reason, as long as it's a Colt.

[Peter M. Eick]

Agreed. I have wanted another 38 Super for years and I was torn between getting a great gun like another Baer or a Colt, I finally broke down and bought the Colt.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/ss_left.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/SS_rollmark_right.jpg

Once I had it, the reality set in that it is a loose as a goose Colt when I was used to my tight as a tick Baer's. My "National Match" barrel has chatter marks and the trigger is series 80 which basically needs a full rework.

So here I sit with my nice Colt 38 Super looking at about $500 of upgrades or $800 if I want to tighten it up and add accurails.

Since it is what I wanted all along. It says Colt 38 Super on the slide and I really like it, I am going to do it. I am just working on the when right now, not the if.

"No good reason, as long as it's a Colt."

I totally understand!

[SharpsDressedMan]

Besides being noticeably more loose and tougher "triggered" than the Baer, how does it shoot? I have found that "loose" Colts can still deliver 3-4" or BETTER at 25 yards, and I'll bet yours can do better, since it has some sights you can see. So it won't do 1.5" @25 like the Baer, and has a mushy trigger. Under a stress situation, they are both hampered by the fact that the shooter might only be capable of 6" @ 25 yards when the adrenaline is pumping, and thus, you might never realize the difference in a real defensive situation. Spend the money, or leave it as is, it still looks to be a fine gun, and a real steal, since it was a limited issue.

[Peter M. Eick]

Neither this pistol or my Baer's would ever be used in a stress situation. Only lovingly carried to the range. Shot and then lovingly clean and carefully stored away.

Stress situations are reserved for things like the P7PSP.

Also the Baer is 1.5" at 50 yards, not 25.

It shoots ok. The barrel has some issues with rough rifling so I will probably have it rebuilt. I am still shooting it out to see if it is worth the rebuilding or just park the Colt and buy another 38 Super 1911 to shoot. Part of me is thinking that way now. The costs to rebuild the Colt to a shooter are significant when I could just buy an Baer 38 super and be happy.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Can you actually shoot 1.5"@50yds out of the Baer? I can't focus on the sights/target anymore to shoot that well at 50 yards. That's why I question "practical" accuracy.

[Peter M. Eick]

Actually I have done it. I have even posted pictures of the feat and talked about it.

It is really and I mean really hard to do. You need to get a good stable rest. No coffee that day, winds need to be calm. Sky's clear and you need to concentrate. What I have found is I can get off the first 3 to 5 shots in really tight cluster. Maybe an inch at 50 yrds. Then I really get the shakes and eyes start watering and I blow either the 6 or 7th shot. If I can make it to 7. I can almost guarantee I will throw the 8th.

On my best groups I don't even look at the target. I just concentrate and shoot then take a peak when I am done. If you look you blow it at least for me.

Why did I buy the 1.5" option? To know that the gun is capable of it. I have to work at it but I know my gun can do it and that is what matters to me.

Come on and think about it. It was only $295 for the peace of mind to know that I have a gun that is guaranteed to be 1.5" or better accuracy at 50 yrds. That is a no brainer. Just the knowledge that the gun can do it is worth more to me then the $295 would be or even the practice I would get from that much ammo. Even reloading that is only a few thousand 10mm's so I would not gain as much or try as hard as I do because of the guarantee.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/baer_razor_target.jpg

Here is my 2 10mm's with factory targets. Baer does not use expensive targets but their target for 8 at 50 is nearly as good as the DW is for 7 at 50 ft.

I just noticed that the RZ is 8 years old now. Wow time flies.

[2zulu1]

I've had a 38 super on my wish list for a long time. No good reason, as long as it's a Colt.
Have you bought your Colt yet? :)

I was researching the Super when I came across this 'old' thread.

I bought this plain Jane Colt about 7 years ago, like my other Colts, it shot out of the box;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/38Super135grFMJ1270fps004.jpg

Over time it's become a well used carry at my place and it and a Para in 38 Super have been used on a number of vermin, including a few close calls. This has become one of my favorite calibers to handload for, paying special attention to load for the bullet and not the caliber. As an example, this mild load pushed this 124gr Gold Dot beyond its velocity design;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/124GD1268fps003.jpg

One of the main reasons I decided to reopen this thread was to help answer questions and define what the Super is capable of doing at reasonable operating pressures, ie, <33,350psi.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/38Supervx357mag125FTX003.jpg

We know from water testing and verified by feral goat culling in Australia that the upper velocity limits of the 124gr XTP is in the upper 1300s to low 1400s, perhaps one of the reasons why why Wilson limits its 124gr XTP ammunition to ~1335fps.

We also know that Hornady uses the same load data for 124gr and 125gr XTPs, the latter being the same bullet used for the 357mag. In using the same Hornady data for both bullets, they chronogrphed w/I 4fps of each other. The biggest problem I had with using Hornady data for N105 powder was that the powder weights were too low for reliable slide functioning with the factory Colt recoil springs and a new Para.

This is where things get interesting, enter Sierra #5 manual with their increased N105 powder weights compared to Hornady data. Over a period of time and chronographing different bullet designs, including 125gr Gold Dots and XTPs, not only were factory 357 SIG velocities attained, but one under max load through the Para was pushing the 125gr Gold Dot at ~1435fps.

I had also read the VihtaVuori website data about N105 powder pushing 124grs into the upper 1500s and was very skeptical it could be done because there wasn't enough space in the casing to hold the weight of powder needed for those uber velocities.

VihtaVuori #4 (2006) reduced the max powder weight considerably, a narrower load window than Sierra, although their is a slight overlap, VihtaVuori still packs slightly more powder.

For those who wish to push the Super to very fast MVs while keeping operating pressures under 33,350psi, I strongly suggest VihtaVuori #4 and N105. N105 is a single perforated neutral powder. Most handgun powders we use to handload are classified as degressive, meaning they have a high pressure spike, Pmax, that drops off sharply as the bullet travels down the bore. N105 as a neutral powder, has a lower Pmax, yet it retains a higher bore pressure than degressive powders. Total pressure under the pressure curve is basically the same. The closest analogy I can think of is the very high operating pressures (40,000+psi?) of the 9x23mm to push 125grs to ~1450fps and under max 125gr/N105 knocking on 1500fps.

Here's a recovered 125gr XTP that had an under max loading that chronographed at 1491fps;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/38Super125XTP-1491fps012.jpg

A second chrono test showed 1486fps through the Colt, low extreme spreads with N105. Loaded this way, the Super is literally a 357mag in a 1911, but with unmatched split times.

Last winter I had a situation with a coyote. I was out with my German Shepherd off leash when we noticed a coyote at distance going from right to left, it noticed us, changed direction and trotted toward us. The GSD is trained to sit when I draw and he did so as the coyote approached.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/coyotemay18200904R2.jpg

Different coyote, pic is zoomed in at ~60 yards. The coyote that was advancing was guesstimated to be at ~75-80 yards, far enough away that its ears were well within the width of my rear sight. Fixed sights being what they are on the Colt, the 125gr XTP tore into the 'yote's shoulder and the distance turned out to be 95 yards, on a moving target.

No longer made by Para, but a nice carry and BBQ piece ;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/Para38Super012.jpg

Can't say about others, but I find the Super to be a very versatile carry, great for the Southwest environment when a flat shooting and accurate caliber is a requirement is needed.

[rtz]

Watch this mag dump of .38 Super:

Jlbikl4pG5A

[bannockburn]

The /38 Super has always been one of my favorite catridges, usually in a Commander size gun. I also like the fact that the conversion to shooting less expensive 9mm. in the same gun really only requires a barrel assembly and a magazine in that caliber.

[Cocked & Locked]

I understand it's pretty much past its prime, but I like classics.

That describes me as well as the .38 Super. Could be one reason I like that cartridge. :scrutiny:

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/9381895/373123963.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/9381895/373123961.jpg

[2zulu1]

That describes me as well as the .38 Super. Could be one reason I like that cartridge. :scrutiny:

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/9381895/373123963.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/9381895/373123961.jpg
Great looking Springer, I wish Springfield still made the Super, I'd like to own one. :)

I like nickel too and bought this Super to match up with a M29/6.5";

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/2012-06-16_16-07-36_914.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/2012-06-16_16-06-38_471.jpg

I was thinking about a Baer P2 in Super, but it looks like I'll be getting a Fusion rail Super instead.

[Cocked & Locked]

I also have this off brand .38 Super. Got this one when RIA first came out with the shiny ones. It has a ramped barrel as does the Springfield Armory one.

I've had two other RIA .38 Supers...one other nickel and one parkerized one. The 2nd (and newer) nickel RIA did not have the ramped barrel so I sold it. It was a replacement from RIA as the park'd one self destructed in short order.

flashy... :uhoh:
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/9381895/193409822.jpg

[ApacheCoTodd]

With the .38 Super (and 9x23), "hotness" for me is delivered in terms of very flat shooting, hard hitting and 75 yard confidence all coming out of a reliable and familiar 1911 platform.
Since I stay away from the deepest end of the .357 pool they present as nicely comparable given the vast differences in my .38 autos and .357 platforms.

[SharpsDressedMan]

I have duplicated the CorBon .38 super load with VV N105, and got a true 1350 with a 124/125gr bullet. I have also gotten a 147gr JHP to about 1200, and that is about as close to a .357 from a 4" barrel that I'm going to try in the Super, but that is so close, that if you were shot with either, you probably would not know the difference.:) Do we really need more, or need to hotrod the thing? I am content with such, and the Super blows the 9mm +P+ away when you get to the "heavy" 147's.....the 9mm just can't do it. That is where the .38 Super shines and exceeds the high pressure 9's. .357 Sig is an interesting cartridge, but it's short neck makes it difficult to hold a bullet with enough friction to prevent bullet setback unless all things are perfect. Any variations in die tolerances or case neck thickness can throw a wrench in the gears. The Super does not suffer from that.

[rfwobbly]

Another vote for 38 Super.

38 Super was the original +P round. In a modern 1911 (post-1990) and handloaded, this thing can really be something. The newer brass (38S Super Comp and 38 Todd Jarret) can let you use consistently higher pressures. Mags hold 9-10 rounds and are easily had. Reloaders find that the powders, primers and bullets are all common to the 9x19.

If you just want to play with one, then Rock Island/Armscor sells a basic model for ~$400 with 2 mags. The Kimber Target II starts about $950.

Conversion barrels to 9x23 Win (which share the same basic form factor and mags as 38S) turn your pistol into a laser pointer.

I'm impressed.

[ku4hx]

Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook:

38 Super - Page 145
13.9 grains Lil' Gun yields 1,383 fps from a 5" barrel

357 Magnum - Page 160
22.0 grains H110 yields 1,506 from a 4" barrel

Of course brave hand loaders might can "improve" on both but the basics are for absolute top loads, the 38 Super cannot beat a .357 in either MV or ME

147 grain bullet it's 38 Super at 1,180 fps using 11.4 grains Lil' Gun and 1,434 fps for the 357 Magnum using 16.5 grains N110. Same 5" and 4" barrels respectively.

I can duplicate these loads as shown by my PACT2 chronograph.

[Walkalong]

Have you bought your Colt yet?I don't know about Dr Rob, but I picked up a Colt in .38 Super. I also have a 9MM barrel for it. Sweet shooting gun.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=165576&stc=1&d=1338663146

[Jaywalker]

Personally, I don't need the 38 Super. I had one in the past and the powders, cases, platforms were fine - I just never trusted the bullets. Most .355 bullets are designed around a lower 9mm velocities, and most .357 bullets weren't designed for semi-auto use. That might well have changed now, but I no longer think I need the additional velocity.

[cfullgraf]

I am another fan of the 38 Super.

Barrels that head space on the case mouth are a must for accuracy. The older barrels that head spaced on the rim did not lend themselves to being accurate and limited the success of the cartridge.

I think the transition to head spacing on the case mouth was starting in the late 1980s to early 1990s so if one bought a use M1911 in 38 Super, a barrel change might be in order.

But, my head-space-on-the-rim barrel made in the 1980s was accurate with 160 SWC cast bullets. Unfortunately, these SWCs will not work in a head-space-on-the-mouth barrels as the bullet shoulder catches on the end of the chamber.

[RainDodger]

Daily carry .38 Super.... about all there is to say...

http://www.hotelling.com/kimber2a.jpg

[Quack]

SA 38S double stack

http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/i-BvpktTM/0/L/i-BvpktTM-L.jpg

http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/i-5f2tB5j/0/L/i-5f2tB5j-L.jpg

and Single Stack.
http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/i-GHfHg57/0/L/i-GHfHg57-L.jpg

http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/i-wWn45vw/0/L/i-wWn45vw-L.jpg

[2zulu1]

Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook:

38 Super - Page 145
13.9 grains Lil' Gun yields 1,383 fps from a 5" barrel

357 Magnum - Page 160
22.0 grains H110 yields 1,506 from a 4" barrel

Of course brave hand loaders might can "improve" on both but the basics are for absolute top loads, the 38 Super cannot beat a .357 in either MV or ME

147 grain bullet it's 38 Super at 1,180 fps using 11.4 grains Lil' Gun and 1,434 fps for the 357 Magnum using 16.5 grains N110. Same 5" and 4" barrels respectively.

I can duplicate these loads as shown by my PACT2 chronograph.

I've found Lil'Gun to be a poor performer in the Super, compared to other powders. From six years ago;

140gr XTP (.357 caliber), R-P +P, WSP, Colt 1911,
11.8grs Lil'Gun,
5@1072fps, ES 23fps, SD 09fps.

Another test, 108°F ambient temperature, put a 147gr (.355) squarely in factory mag territory using less powder;
Win nickel +P, WSP, Colt 1911,
9.0grs AA#7,
5@1288fps, ES 31fps,

Factory Remington 357/158gr SJHP is rated at 1240fps.

Factory Remington 357/125gr SJHP chronographs 1456fps through a 4" Dan Wesson.

Colt 1911, 125gr XTP (.357), R-P +P, Fed 100;
10.2grs N105,
1491fps, ES 48fps.

10.0grs N105, WSP,
1436fps, ES 28fps, SD 10fps.

VihtaVuori powder load range data is from 9.9grs to 10.4grs, operating pressure <33,350psi.

Calculated recoil of a loaded Colt 1911 with the 10.2gr load is;
6.28 ft/lbs, 12.12fps (9.68fps bullet - 2.44fps powder).

My worst split times, cold and windy day with exposed - bare hands, ranged from .16-.21 seconds. Not too bad for a senior shooting an outdated and past its usefulness platform/ caliber. :)

[Mat, not doormat]

I've got a LW Commander in .38 Super. It's fast becoming my primary CCW choice. I've never been a fan of .45 in a lightweight gun, and less so since I accidentally became left handed. The Super, in making a different kind of power to the .45 makes for more manageable recoil. Also, ten plus one with all that's good in the 1911 is just nice too.

It's not that I don't like big heavy bullets, I just think they belong in big heavy guns.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[pendennis]

I traded a S&W 686+ for this one a couple of years ago. My friend threw in 10 boxes of ammo. This one still had the box, and I've since swapped out the stocks for a set of black buffalo horn. I also picked up a EAA Witness in .38 Super, and they're both tack drivers.
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu331/pendennis1947/Springfield1911A1-38SuperLFT.jpg

[Casefull]

My kimber stainless in 38 super is great. The super is to the 9mm as the 10mm is to the 40. If you handload the advantages of the longer cases are apparent. Very accurate round and you can load the 147 rounds to 1200 fps.