My first AR 14.5" build. need help!


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zollen
April 12, 2011, 05:35 AM
This is my very first AR 14.5" build. This build is designed for absolute beginner. I hope price vs performance/quality wise this is a decent build for a beginner. This AR is for range shooting and for a few tactical training courses.

Total: $1040

BCM Standard 14.5" Mid Length (LIGHT WEIGHT) Upper Receiver Group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm) ($399)

BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod 3 (LARGE) Latch (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-3-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%203%20556.htm) ($45)

BCM Bolt Carrier Group (MPI) - Auto (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm) ($140)

Samson Evolution 9" Rail (http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html/product/Samson_Evolution_Series.html) ($155)

PCF C-15 Composite Lower (http://www.gunsamerica.com/988715491/Guns/Rifles/AR-15-Rifles-Small-Manufacturers/Lower-Only/Plumcrazy_Firearms_Complete_C15_Lower.htm) ($128)

Magpul MIAD Grip (Dark Earth) (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG050/40) ($36)

Magpul CTR Stock (Dark Earth) (http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/83) ($97)

ERGO Grid Low Profile Rail Covers (Dark Earth) x 2 (http://www.impactguns.com/store/ergo_gridlowprocovers.html) ($20)

ERGO Ladder Low Profile Rail Covers (Dark Earth) x 2 (http://www.impactguns.com/store/ergo_lowprorailcovers.html) ($20)

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atblis
April 12, 2011, 08:01 AM
I think you can do better. $1k+ and you have probably the cheapest lower you can possibly buy.

This
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st15-midlength-le-carbine-p-443.html
and have Spikes slap on one of their SAR rails instead.

zollen
April 12, 2011, 05:18 PM
I think you can do better. $1k+ and you have probably the cheapest lower you can possibly buy.

This
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st15-midlength-le-carbine-p-443.html
and have Spikes slap on one of their SAR rails instead.
The spike complete rifle costs $810, but this is only the base cost. The rifle does not have free floating rail, Magpul MIAD Dark Earth Grip and Magpul CTR Dark Earth Stock. The cost would add up after the modification. I say the final cost of the spike rifle would be roughtly the same as mine.

The question now is which has better performance and quality? Spike complete rifle or Stag Arms?

Rail Driver
April 12, 2011, 05:24 PM
As a longtime AR-15 shooter, I'd advise you to buy a pre-built complete rifle. Piecing together a rifle from parts tends to result in hit or miss reliability and accuracy unless you REALLY know what you're doing.

zollen
April 12, 2011, 06:14 PM
As a longtime AR-15 shooter, I'd advise you to buy a pre-built complete rifle. Piecing together a rifle from parts tends to result in hit or miss reliability and accuracy unless you REALLY know what you're doing.
I am planning to ask a local gunsmith to build it for me. I hope this is acceptable.

Sam Cade
April 12, 2011, 06:53 PM
Spikes is generally considered to be a better rifle.


FWIW, it is constructive possession to have a sub 16" barrel and an unused rifle lower at the same time.

Tax Stamp first, then acquire an upper.

atblis
April 12, 2011, 07:12 PM
I don't know what you'd need a local gunsmith for. There's nothing to be built. You're buying a complete upper, and more or less a complete lower. If you can operate a screw driver, you can change the grip. The stock is easy too.

Heck, even if you were assembling it yourself, it's really freaking easy. The only special tools you really need are a upper vise block, barrel wrench, and a torque wrench.

There's no reason to get a 14.5" with a pinned flash suppressor (unless you like that look, some people do). Get a 16" barrel. Skip the M4 barrel. Government profile is a nice barrel contour. Not too heavy. Also, mid length gas system goes better with a 16" barrel. It also give you a longer sight radius.

Nothing wrong with Stag. Spikes has a lot of fanboys right now, but in reality it's pretty close to a toss up.

The Spikes SAR rail looks pretty sexy. I would have ordered one by now, but the price will make me take longer to talk myself into it. I've been buying Troy tubes because they're pretty cheap and I like them.

I was more providing the Spikes as an example of a good basic starter AR.

zollen
April 12, 2011, 07:29 PM
I don't know what you'd need a local gunsmith for. There's nothing to be built. You're buying a complete upper, and more or less a complete lower. If you can operate a screw driver, you can change the grip. The stock is easy too.

Heck, even if you were assembling it yourself, it's really freaking easy. The only special tools you really need are a upper vise block, barrel wrench, and a torque wrench.

There's no reason to get a 14.5" with a pinned flash suppressor (unless you like that look, some people do). Get a 16" barrel. Skip the M4 barrel. Government profile is a nice barrel contour. Not too heavy. Also, mid length gas system goes better with a 16" barrel. It also give you a longer sight radius.

Nothing wrong with Stag. Spikes has a lot of fanboys right now, but in reality it's pretty close to a toss up.

The Spikes SAR rail looks pretty sexy. I would have ordered one by now, but the price will make me take longer to talk myself into it. I've been buying Troy tubes because they're pretty cheap and I like them.

I was more providing the Spikes as an example of a good basic starter AR.
The only unknown assembly is the MIAD pistol grip. The rest are pretty much snap, screw and play.

atblis
April 12, 2011, 07:54 PM
Yep. Though, I did forget about the gas block. If you want to put a free float tube on a barrel that has a front sight gas block already on it, you usually have to remove the gas block. That can be a bit of a pain sometimes. No exotic tools necessary, it just requires proper technique using punches and such.

zollen
April 12, 2011, 08:04 PM
Yep. Though, I did forget about the gas block. If you want to put a free float tube on a barrel that has a front sight gas block already on it, you usually have to remove the gas block. That can be a bit of a pain sometimes. No exotic tools necessary, it just requires proper technique using punches and such.
No need. The Stag Arms comes with Samson Star-C free floating rail system. As for your recommedation, Spike complete rifle, replacing the A2 handguard with a free floating rail (non-drop in) may be a bit much for me, I would need a gunsmith for that.

atblis
April 12, 2011, 09:28 PM
What I was suggesting was to give Spikes a call and ask them to build you that rifle with one of their rails.

What were you planning on doing regarding the barrel length? You do know the minimum length for a rifle is 16", right? You can go SBR, but that requires some extra paper work and $200. I can't imagine anybody would want to SBR a plum crazy lower. Pin and weld?

zollen
April 12, 2011, 10:06 PM
What I was suggesting was to give Spikes a call and ask them to build you that rifle with one of their rails.

What were you planning on doing regarding the barrel length? You do know the minimum length for a rifle is 16", right? You can go SBR, but that requires some extra paper work and $200. I can't imagine anybody would want to SBR a plum crazy lower. Pin and weld?
I am actually looking for 14.5" mid-length.

Sam Cade
April 12, 2011, 11:25 PM
I am actually looking for 14.5" mid-length

Why?

kwelz
April 13, 2011, 09:58 AM
Since you mentioned training courses you need to reconsider your build. Ditch the Stag. They are not suited for that type of environment.

Look at the following
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm

Add a Bolt for 125-150

then I would suggest looking at a rail like this one
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-trx-extreme-9-black

Even with a pinned FH you will be in the same price range and the gun will be far superior to the Stag.

Also, skip the composit lower. You can get any number of quality aluminum lowers in the 100-125 range. You will not regret it. Although if I had to pick I would go with a BCM blem lower. You can get them with stock, etc already for a great price.

zollen
April 13, 2011, 05:11 PM
Since you mentioned training courses you need to reconsider your build. Ditch the Stag. They are not suited for that type of environment.

Look at the following
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm

Add a Bolt for 125-150

then I would suggest looking at a rail like this one
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-trx-extreme-9-black

Even with a pinned FH you will be in the same price range and the gun will be far superior to the Stag.

Also, skip the composit lower. You can get any number of quality aluminum lowers in the 100-125 range. You will not regret it. Although if I had to pick I would go with a BCM blem lower. You can get them with stock, etc already for a great price.
Excellent Suggestion!!!! I really like the BCM light-weight upper group for $399!!

BCM Standard 14.5" Mid Length (LIGHT WEIGHT) Upper Receiver Group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-14lw.htm) ($399)

BCM Bolt Carrier Group - Auto (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm) ($140)

BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod 3 (LARGE) Latch (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-3-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%203%20556.htm) ($45)

Samson Evolution 9" Rail System (http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html/product/Samson_Evolution_Series.html) ($155)

Total: $739

I like the Samson rail better than Troy Extreme rail. Samson Evolution rail is cheaper and lighter than Troy Extreme rail.

So far.. I have not seen any convincing solid arguments that the PCF composite lower is inferior, so I decide to stick with the composite lower until I see any further evidences to prove otherwise.

IslandTimes
April 13, 2011, 09:20 PM
Just make sure you pin the flash hider or comp on your upper before you buy your lower.

zollen
April 13, 2011, 10:28 PM
Just make sure you pin the flash hider or comp on your upper before you buy your lower.
Why?? Upper and lower are independent pieces. I should be able to pin a flash hider/comp whenever I want..

Chopdoktor
April 13, 2011, 10:58 PM
^^^ "Constructive Intent", that's why. ^^^ If you don't know what that means, check it out. ATF will resort to charging you with 'thought-crime', if they can get away with it. Sad but true.

kwelz
April 13, 2011, 11:04 PM
Constructive intent has been used exactly once. The guy was arrested for other things and that was tacked on. He owned the sir components and a lower but no standard upper.

atblis
April 14, 2011, 07:14 AM
Which case was that? On my list of constructive intent cases I have
T.C.
Kwan
Amador (not Fed.)

ScottyPotty
April 15, 2011, 08:07 AM
You have all good quality parts except the lower. Change it out with something else and you will be good to go.

Why is this in the NFA section? Are you planning on SBR?

Sam Cade
April 15, 2011, 01:22 PM
Why is this in the NFA section? Are you planning on SBR?
14.5" is NFA territory.

kwelz
April 15, 2011, 01:23 PM
Not with a pinned FH of at least 1.5 inches.

Sam Cade
April 15, 2011, 01:38 PM
Not with a pinned FH of at least 1.5 inches.

...or a 3.5" piece of rebar tack welded to the underside of the barrel like I saw on a 14" TC barrel today.

ScottyPotty
April 15, 2011, 02:01 PM
14.5" is NFA territory.

See the 2nd part of my question. The OP also never mentions his intent of SBR

Sam Cade
April 15, 2011, 02:11 PM
OP also never mentions his intent of SBR

Posting it in the NFA forum one would assume he did intend to.



also see previous posts:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=584993

zollen
April 15, 2011, 05:07 PM
This is my very first AR and I am unfamiliar with any laws and regulations. Is my build under NFA or not??

ScottyPotty
April 15, 2011, 05:19 PM
Yes - A rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" is considered a SBR and needs to submit paperwork to the ATF along with $200 for the tax stamp.

Your looking at a 14.5" barrel, if you use the correct flash hider and pin/weld it to make the barrel 16" long then its not NFA and you dont have to do paperwork and the tax.

Mikesull415
April 15, 2011, 05:19 PM
You need a minimum barrel length of 16". Anything shorter becomes an "SBR" and is NFA

14.5 with a removable flash hider does not count. The flash hider or compensator has to be permanently mounted to the end of the barrel.

That's why others have said you should just go with a 16" barrel from the start since it allows you to change out your flash suppressors or whatever else you want to put on the end of the rifle.

zollen
April 15, 2011, 06:10 PM
I am living in Canada.

Sam Cade
April 15, 2011, 07:13 PM
I am living in Canada.

AR15 is a Restricted Class Firearm for you and may even get into to Prohibited territory depending on barrel length.

FULL STOP.

Familiarize yourself with your laws. Our Laws do not apply to you.

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