Taurus vs Charter Arms


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Patriotme
April 12, 2011, 10:16 PM
I realize that neither brand is exactly considered top of the line but some people can barely scrape together enough money to buy a gun.
If you only had $300 to spend on a 2" .38spl which brand would you prefer and why?
I know that there are other choices out there and used guns can run $300 or less but this is about these two specific choices of snub nosed .38's.

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ColtPythonElite
April 12, 2011, 10:23 PM
I can't say anything about either, but can recommend a Rossi 88 for a budget snub. I had one years ago and found it to be a pretty good carry gun.

Deus Machina
April 12, 2011, 10:41 PM
I'd look for a used S&W Model 10 first.

That said, I've been quite happy with my 2.5" Taurus M85 UL, and would gladly buy another. I'm a little leery about running the harshest of .38 +P through it, but believe the old thought that 158gr SWJHP will do the job if I can.

I''ve also heard high praise of Charter Arms' recent revolvers for the price range, but have no firsthand firing experience. A quick look at a couple left me with a good opinion of their fit and finish, but they're definitely not Ruger.

Onward Allusion
April 12, 2011, 11:08 PM
Patriotme (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=109464)
Taurus vs Charter Arms
I realize that neither brand is exactly considered top of the line but some people can barely scrape together enough money to buy a gun.
If you only had $300 to spend on a 2" .38spl which brand would you prefer and why?
I know that there are other choices out there and used guns can run $300 or less but this is about these two specific choices of snub nosed .38's.

The Taurus revolvers are ok guns. Triggers & action nothing to write home about but completely reliable if you use non +P rounds. Yes, I do know that they are +P rated, but I'm not willing to risk my life on a Taurus .38 special that has been fed a steady diet of +P rounds. Heck, I wouldn't risk my life on any revolver that has been fed a steady diet of +P 38 spl rounds unless it was a 357 Magnum.

If you go with Charter Arms, go with old stuff or brand new manufacturing. Stay away from the late 80's all the way to the last few years.

mr_goodbomb
April 12, 2011, 11:16 PM
Taurus has a lifetime warranty, correct?

03Shadowbob
April 12, 2011, 11:21 PM
My Taurus Model 85 SS (made back in 1989 or so) is one my my most solid guns and the trigger is great in double action and will surprise you in single action. Accurate also. I'd go with a similar Taurus 85. You couldn't pay me to have a newer model Taurus anything. I've sent back 3 different models before I got smart.

Deus Machina
April 12, 2011, 11:21 PM
Taurus has a lifetime warranty, correct?

In writing, but internet reports are that they don't make it easy.

Loyalist Dave
April 12, 2011, 11:24 PM
I bought a 7-shot Taurus .357 with a short barrel, simply because I thought it was odd, and fun, not for any serious application other than targets. It shoots very well, and I would get another without a problem. I have seen a Charter arms in 5-shot with a 3" barrel (iirc), and adjustable sights that I fing curious as well. It looked to me to be better than many of the past CA's that I had handled. As I haven't shot a CA in a very long time..., I'd have to say Taurus for now.

LD

Leathermarshmallow
April 12, 2011, 11:37 PM
I don't have the .38, but I have a charter .44 special that I really like. It is of recent manufacture and is a trustworthy gun.

MMCSRET
April 13, 2011, 12:15 AM
I have Taurus and CA revolvers, they have been reliable and trouble free for me over almost 30 years.

dallascj
April 13, 2011, 01:24 AM
I have both and have had no issues with them. I have a CA .44 Special and about 15 Taurus revolvers. The Taurus Model 85 is their biggest seller.

oldfool
April 13, 2011, 01:48 AM
problem with Charter is what post #4 said, the company has so many reincarnations over time, hard to tell what to think about 'em

Taurus QC is all over the map also, but their model 85, as others have noted, gets consistently good marks. I liked a couple of 'em that I shot, although I do not own one. If I was in the market for another snubbie 38, the 85 would be high on my short list, and I would not worry about shooting 38+P in them. Like my k-frame 357s, they would see a whole lot of 'cheap' 38 fodder on range day, and far fewer 38+P JHPs. Factory 38+P is just not all that hot a load. I have on occasion shot up a whole box of 38+p at the range without realizing it was +P (vs 38 sp) until after the box was empty.

(and that opinion of the Taurus 85 snubbie comes from a S&W model 60 and Ruger SP101 fan)

jkulysses
April 13, 2011, 02:08 AM
If I had to choose between those two brands I would pick Charter Arms any day of the week. I swore Taurus off for life because of poor QC, customer service and turn around time for warranty repairs. My dad picked up a little Charter Arms .22mag Pathfinder a couple months back and it's been a great little revolver so far but thats my only experience with Charter Arms. I personally would find some stuff I got laying around to sell or find a little side project to make an extra hundred or $150 bucks and get a Ruger speaking of which i got a .357 LCR coming from Davidson's should be here on Thursday!!

oldfool
April 13, 2011, 02:37 AM
crappy Taurus QC in general has nothing to do with specific model hands on experience
OP is not a brand war, it requests feedback on specific model and/or model/vintage

get your dad to post up on THIS thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=586892
some us seeking specific feedback on Charter Pathfinder rimfire
(me in particular re: the 22 mag, how good was fit and finish, how good is the DA trigger, and can you compare that to some other small frame DA trigger ???)

weregunner
April 13, 2011, 04:00 AM
If you want the story on the Taurus snub revolvers please pick a model/s and I can find the info for you.

I own a number of Taurus snub revolvers and find they are durable,reliable, and a bargain.

First off I own a 85CH in .38 Special that is +25 years old and not +P qualified.

Buffalo Bore and Federal Nyclads help out there with excellent standard pressure rounds.

Buffale Bore makes a 158gr. LSWCHP that has the velocity of the +P version without the recoil of the +P.

Federal makes the 125 gr. LSWCHP Nyclad that makes a good practice and decent protection round.

My Taurus 856 magnesium framed Lyte model gets those as well. The 856 in the magnesium model or the stainless regular frame holds 6 shot instead of 5 and on a model 85 frame. I own both stainless models, but one is the magnesium model.

Next up is the 327 in .327 Federal magnum. Not only is this a 6 shot model, but .32 H&R magnum rounds and .32 S&W Long rounds can be shot through it.

This makes for versatility and a gun that new shooters can be introduced to.

Tailor the ammo to the mission.

Then comes the Rossi 462 in .357 magnum. This is a six shot gun, but the Rossi 351/352 family are 5 rounders and in .38 Special.

Rossi is owned by Taurus now.

There are also the Taurus 650/651/850/851 family to consider as well. Add to that all the Taurus 85 models to look at.

Want a 7 shot snub revolver? The 617 and the 817UL have it.

The few Charter Arms revolvers that I have been able to handle or shoot briefly seemed to be good solid pieces.

What ever fits you and your needs is the way to go.

If you use this you cannot go wrong.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=15969.0

Whether it is a Taurus or a Charter, should you choose to go those ways, or some other revolver, we should celebrate your pick.

Handle as many different models as you can. That way you can see first hand what's what.

MikeNice
April 13, 2011, 05:29 AM
I have been running a Taurus 85b3. No issues with over three hundred rounds of +p ammo since I aquired it. I have no idea how many rounds it fired in its previous life. All I know is that it performs well and I am confident with it.

joed
April 13, 2011, 07:23 AM
I've owned a Charter Bulldog bought new in 2004. I wouldn't own another Charter Arms product and feel that anyone associated with Charter should be put to death.

I replaced the Charter with a Taurus, easily 3 times the gun of a Charter.

bikerdoc
April 13, 2011, 08:59 AM
Yawn, another Taurus thread.

I own both. A 70's CA , and A Taurus 605 (357 3inch) both are good guns. Both get carried. Not as much as my Rugers, but the are dedendable. If you are asking me to pick one - Taurus.

hardluk1
April 13, 2011, 09:25 AM
I have a 1980's taurus 85SS that has one of lightest and smoothest handgun triggers I have had in my hand. I carried that for 20+ years. Great shooter . I also own a new charter arms ultra lite and can say it to shoots well. Not as good a trigger but with wolf springs it is now real nice and it does slick up with rounds fored. At 13oz it can be a hand full under recoil with +p loads. Just besure a charter arms say's just that on the frame. Not charter or charter 2000. I also use a old taurus 22 for practice .

Jim NE
April 13, 2011, 09:33 AM
I owned two Charter Arms revolvers about 25 years ago, both purchased brand new. Hopefully, Charter Arms has improved since then. The first was a .38 snubnose which looked fine and was surprisingly accurate, but the cylinder wouldn't open after the gun had been fired, and the ejector could barely push the spent brass out of the chambers, they were in there so tight.

Still, the gun was accurate, so I bought another one, a larger .357 model. I was hoping that, being larger and sturdier, it wouldn't have the same problem, but lo and behold it did. I also had one of those Explorer survival .22 pistols (bought used), and it didn't work that great, either.

Too bad. I really wanted them to be good guns, and I gave C.A. several opportunities to prove this. They didn't. I guess it's possible they've improved since then.

Never had a Taurus, but I've had good luck with the one Rossi I've owned.

32 Magnum
April 13, 2011, 01:05 PM
Following is the research info. that I've been able to acquire on the Charter Arms firearms.

The very first Charter Arms Corporation production began in 1964 in BRIDGEPORT CONN - earliest pieces - mostly Undercover model will have either NO address on the right side of the barrel or will have BRIDGEPORT.
Around 1974, address was changed to STRATFORD CONN - all pieces made after mid 1974 will be marked with that address on the right side of the barrel and all will have CHARTER ARMS CORP. as the first line. Around 1991, Charter Arms Corp. ceased operations. This was the end of the FIRST GENERATION.
Around early 1992, the company was re-organized under new leadership and became known as Charter Arms Company - CHARCO, and was located in ANSONIA CONN. All second generation pieces will be marked on the right side of the barrel with that name and address in two lines. This is the SECOND generation and apparently the period which caused the most damage to the Charter name and reputation.
In 2000, the company was again reorganized as CHARTER 2000 and relocated to SHELTON CONN. All pieces made during this THIRD generation will be marked with the SHELTON address. Early production of this generation seems to have been spotty and reputation still lagged. About a year and a half ago, the company re-reorganized under the direction of MKS Marketing and seems now to be if not flourishing at least it is progressing in quality and market share.
From the limited data set that I have been able to assemble so far the following serialization seems to be valid: (NOTE: model name and caliber will be stamped on left side of barrel on all pieces)
FIRST GENERATION
0001 - <13000 Bridgeport 1964 - ? CHARTER ARMS CORP. right side of barrel marking only
~13000 - <315,000 ? - ~1965 CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDGEPORT CONN .marking
~316,000 - <1,088,000 - ~1974 to 1991 - CHARTER ARMS CORP. over STRATFORD CONN. marking

SECOND GENERATION
>1,090,000 - ??? 1992 - 2000? CHARCO over ANSONIA CONN- marking

THIRD GENERATION
000001 - to date 2000 - 2011 CHARTER ARMS 2000 over SHELTON CONN marking.

This is the updated serial number info that I have - based upon around 800 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~19,000 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~19000 to ~315,000 1967 - 1969
Stratford CONN address - ~316000 to ~1,090,000 1970 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation

2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn adress - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1999

3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today.

From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observed and fondle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time. Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions. That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2008) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience.

BrocLuno
April 13, 2011, 01:10 PM
I have a Charter Arms Undercoverette on my short list. I like .32 Mag and the ability to shoot .32 Long and .32 S&W, all in the same arm. Snubbies can be tough to control. With these options there are a lot pf practice and field capabilities in a compact frame :)

Onward Allusion
April 13, 2011, 01:33 PM
anyone associated with Charter should be put to death.OMG! :eek:

joed
April 13, 2011, 07:03 PM
Quote:
anyone associated with Charter should be put to death.[\QUOTE]
[QUOTE]OMG!

I do not have a very high opinion of Charter Arms after that gun. Don't care much about the eras but the early ones are probably the only decent ones.

MCgunner
April 13, 2011, 07:44 PM
I have owned both. Have divested myself of Charter Arms, but have a pair of Taurus 66s (3" and 4") and a M85SSUL that will stay in my possession. In fact, the 4" 66 replaces a Ruger Security Six and a Smith M19. It's a smidge more accurate than the Smith and shoots rings around the Ruger. The triggers are quite good on the 4" 66 and the 85 is awesome, but the older 3" 66 with hammer block is a little rough compared to my Smith and the other 66. Ain't bad, just not as slick in a side by side comparison. I don't even wanna think about Charter, though, not anywhere in the same league IMHO. Someone mentioned Rossi. All mine were Interarms guns, but all were servicable weapons and quite accurate enough. Academy has 'em dirt cheap if you're looking for a bargan snubby. I really do prefer my Taurus 85 to anything I've owned, though. Damned nice revolver.

unknown88
April 13, 2011, 09:44 PM
Plus 1 on Taurus

Deltaboy
April 13, 2011, 09:53 PM
I have a Old Charter Undercover from 1972. I have owned both and you can get good service from either company.

ArchAngelCD
April 14, 2011, 02:24 AM
Rossi is owned by Taurus and both are Brazilian companies. Charter Arms is an American company and they are again in the original owner's hands. Their QC is back where it should be and they make a really good product. I would by Charter Arms above Taurus any day!

sixgunner455
April 14, 2011, 03:12 AM
If you can check it out carefully, and preferably shoot it first, I'd get a Taurus 85 or 605. I wouldn't trust anything else they make, and I wouldn't trust anything Charter makes without putting half a case of ammo through it personally first.

I've purchased several guns for under $300.00 One was a Colt Detective Special for $179.00. It has about the same holster wear now that it did then - not much, just on the edges, and I wouldn't take less than $400.00 for it today.

I got a brand new Star Firestar M40 once upon a time for $249.00. I traded it for a beautiful Smith & Wesson Model 10. Should never have sold that Smith. Fits of stupidity, and so forth.

I got a KelTec P11 for a touch over $200.00 about ten years ago. Don't regret selling it, but it was reliable, accurate enough (when I was practiced up on managing the trigger), lightweight, compact, and carried decently. Didn't enjoy the recoil or the trigger, but if I had it back today and it was my only gun, I would carry it confidently. I never had a question about whether or not it was going to work. It always worked.

I got a Bulgarian Makarov, a 1984 military one, for $129.00. My wife adopted it as hers. It is much easier to shoot well, with much more pleasant recoil, than the P11. It is also heavier, and bigger. But I would carry it just as confidently as the KelTec. It always, always works, and it always hits the target.

I got another Smith & Wesson, an M&P from a long, long time ago, with lots of finish wear, for just over $100.00. I have carried it confidently, and it is currently in my father's nightstand.

I paid $329.00 for a LNIB CZ75B SA, and curiously enough, $329.00 for a brand-new in box Smith & Wesson 642-2. Those are the two I carry the most now.

If a guy is willing to shop carefully, and look for a deal, he doesn't have to put up with second-rate guns that he's going to wonder if they're going to work when he needs them to. Deals are out there, even today.

oldfool
April 15, 2011, 03:29 AM
well the OP was asking about 2" snubs in 38, Charter vs Taurus

But I do agree with what McGunner said about the old model Taurus 66 and the Interarms era Rossi. I have both, although my late 80s vintage T-66 is a 6", and my late 80s vintage Rossi 38 is a 4", and not a BrazTech Rossi of course.
my Taurus 66 will hold accuracy equal to both my S&W 66s, though not better than, and has every bit as good a DA trigger

I don't trust the T-66 metallurgy as well as I trust the K-66s, but it really doesn't matter for me; I run only 38s thru the T, and run 38+p & 357s only thru the Ks, when I run 'em
I obviously do believe the current manufacture T-85s metallurgy (any/all variants) is plenty fine with any 38/38+P load

I have not myself shot an 85 enough for me to say that it is as good as any of those mentioned (other than easily better than the Rossi), nor better/worse than a 80s vintage SS S&W 60 (which is not for me as good as the "k" triggers), but the 85s I shot were the best triggers on snubbie j-sizes I have myself felt in many a year, but some part of that is maybe driven by the DAO mega-trend these days
ain't tried an LCR yet though, probably won't, just not in the market for another snubbie, and not being partial to DAOs anyway.

PS
McGunner ain't no slouch with centerfire snubbies, by the way, for those that don't know

joed
April 15, 2011, 08:41 AM
If you can check it out carefully, and preferably shoot it first, I'd get a Taurus 85 or 605. I wouldn't trust anything else they make, and I wouldn't trust anything Charter makes without putting half a case of ammo through it personally first.


Good advice. The Charter I bought new was the most disappointing gun I have ever owned. For $300 I expected something that works. My Bulldog was horrible, cylinder dragged, it didn't shoot where aimed and it had timing issues.

I would never own another Charter Arms product no matter who owns the company.

If you have money to throw away buy a new Charter, but I'd opt for something else.

sixgunner455
April 15, 2011, 12:57 PM
oldfool, his premise was that a guy only had $300.00 to spend, and felt that limited him to Taurus and Charter.

Wrong premise, to me, as I demonstrated by my listing of many guns, including a 2" .38 Colt, that I got for under $300.00. And if you shop carefully, you might even get a new S&W for just a bit over $300.00 - that would be worth saving up for, to me, vs. getting a gun you aren't sure about.

old fart
April 15, 2011, 06:05 PM
i have a taurus 605 and a charter mag pug, i have shot the 605 about 200rds without any problems. i've put about the same thru the charter also without trouble but this is the new charter it was made in dec of 2010. if i had the choice of choosing just one, i would pick the charter. the 605 is more accurate but not by much and has a little better trigger, but a friend had to send a charter back in two weeks they sent him a new gun, no questions asked and no trouble. so considering the chance to have to send in a gun the warranty work of charter beats taurus. but i would not mind getting either with the two i have been great.

Onward Allusion
April 15, 2011, 06:07 PM
And if you shop carefully, you might even get a new S&W for just a bit over $300.00
;) You mean like $337 for a SS Bodyguard? <---includes shipping!

http://www.jetguns.com/m638-bodyguard-special-stainless-p-487.html

Yeah yeah I know FFL fee...etc... Ok, in your hands for $357? Strictly as an aside, it blows my mind that people pick the LCR over this...

Remo223
April 15, 2011, 06:23 PM
Following is the research info. that I've been able to acquire on the Charter Arms firearms.

The very first Charter Arms Corporation production began in 1964 in BRIDGEPORT CONN - earliest pieces - mostly Undercover model will have either NO address on the right side of the barrel or will have BRIDGEPORT.
Around 1974, address was changed to STRATFORD CONN - all pieces made after mid 1974 will be marked with that address on the right side of the barrel and all will have CHARTER ARMS CORP. as the first line. Around 1991, Charter Arms Corp. ceased operations. This was the end of the FIRST GENERATION.
Around early 1992, the company was re-organized under new leadership and became known as Charter Arms Company - CHARCO, and was located in ANSONIA CONN. All second generation pieces will be marked on the right side of the barrel with that name and address in two lines. This is the SECOND generation and apparently the period which caused the most damage to the Charter name and reputation.
In 2000, the company was again reorganized as CHARTER 2000 and relocated to SHELTON CONN. All pieces made during this THIRD generation will be marked with the SHELTON address. Early production of this generation seems to have been spotty and reputation still lagged. About a year and a half ago, the company re-reorganized under the direction of MKS Marketing and seems now to be if not flourishing at least it is progressing in quality and market share.
From the limited data set that I have been able to assemble so far the following serialization seems to be valid: (NOTE: model name and caliber will be stamped on left side of barrel on all pieces)
FIRST GENERATION
0001 - <13000 Bridgeport 1964 - ? CHARTER ARMS CORP. right side of barrel marking only
~13000 - <315,000 ? - ~1965 CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDGEPORT CONN .marking
~316,000 - <1,088,000 - ~1974 to 1991 - CHARTER ARMS CORP. over STRATFORD CONN. marking

SECOND GENERATION
>1,090,000 - ??? 1992 - 2000? CHARCO over ANSONIA CONN- marking

THIRD GENERATION
000001 - to date 2000 - 2011 CHARTER ARMS 2000 over SHELTON CONN marking.

This is the updated serial number info that I have - based upon around 800 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~19,000 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~19000 to ~315,000 1967 - 1969
Stratford CONN address - ~316000 to ~1,090,000 1970 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation

2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn adress - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1999

3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today.

From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observed and fondle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time. Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions. That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2008) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience.

I have a CA undercover with a 4 digit serial number starting with the number "1"...stamped on the lower right hand side of the right side frame.

Is that an original 1964 model?

Remo223
April 15, 2011, 06:31 PM
With the exception of a NAA mini revolver, a charter arms aluminum frame undercover is THE MOST CONCEALABLE REVOLVER MADE.

Charter arms revolvers have a slightly smaller diameter cylinder than other 5 shot 38cal revolvers. This makes the whole gun smaller. The problem with the new charter arms guns is that they come with those stupid oversized rubber grips. This ruins the concealability of the gun.

My recommendation is to buy a brand new aluminum undercover and put a set of old fashioned small wood grips on it, or buy a set of barami hip grips for it.

32 Magnum
April 15, 2011, 06:33 PM
Indications are that production began in 1965. Funding was secured in mid 1964 and it took some times to find a place and set-up tooling and machinery for production.

Remo223
April 15, 2011, 06:44 PM
I havn't attempted to remove a CA barrel yet. I've seen some barrels that don't have threads on them. Do you happen to know what year(s) the barrels were threaded in and what years they weren't(if any)? If they were all threaded, then what was the barrels i've seen with no threads on?

I'm in the process of figuring out how to fabricate a "cut down" charter undercover. I've got some spare grip frames and I'm going to start trying to cut out a piece of the grip and weld it back together to make a shorter grip. Also, I think I've figured out I can shorten the tube on the ejector rod (the thing that locks into the front of the frame) without effecting function. Doing this will enable a shorter ejector rod without sacrificing stroke length, I think.

Once I got that figured out, I'm going to try shortening a barrel.

sixgunner455
April 15, 2011, 06:59 PM
You mean like $337 for a SS Bodyguard? <---includes shipping!

http://www.jetguns.com/m638-bodyguar...ess-p-487.html

Yeah yeah I know FFL fee...etc... Ok, in your hands for $357? Strictly as an aside, it blows my mind that people pick the LCR over this...

*Exactly* what I'm talking about.

skidder
April 16, 2011, 02:25 PM
I have two Taurus revolvers and Taurus makes crap. Now they own Rossi I hope they don't send a memo and tell them to make crap. My previous Rossi 357 was a gem. Taurus does have a lifetime warranty but only the chosen few get their guns fixed (Mine came back worse). My local dealer told me they have more returns on their revolvers than all others combined. Check the internet and you will see the complaints about Taurus are far greater than Rossi and Charter Arms.

Because Taurus has their hand in Rossi's cookie jar I would have to say go with Charter arms.

TYFOOON
April 16, 2011, 02:42 PM
Shopping for a .38 Sp?

Scrape a day or two more and get a gun you will love.

Ruger LCR all the friggin way.

dogngun
April 16, 2011, 05:30 PM
and a 1911.

I carry a Rossi 462 stainless 6 shot .357 magnum snubbie. I replaced the hammer spring with one recommended by Woll Springs-the one they sell for the S&W J frames.

I have been shooting handguns since the 1970's and have owned 3 Rossi's and liked them all.

I bought it used for about $265.

mark

added; I have heard good things about the new Charter Arms, but the only one I ever owned, an old .44 Bulldog, was a real POS.

trapper500
April 17, 2011, 04:20 AM
Taurus makes a good 44 magnum The Raging Bull i wouldn't trade it for no S&W Made i save up for nearly 2 yrs to buy a S&W PC 10.5 " In 500 Mag. Nothing but trouble with the thing the gun wouldn't stay in time for nothing . I even sent it back to S&W twice for he same thing & repaired it & sent it back & wouls start shooting & after about 10 rounds it done it again .I paid $1,150 + tax for it NO MORE S&W's For Me

JoelSteinbach
April 17, 2011, 10:58 AM
I have tried 3 different Taurus revolvers over the years, I now own none, every one had malfunctioned many times. I keep a recent Charter Bull Dog 44 spec in my car, I has over 500 round thru it with "0" FTF. I would trust in with my life. The new Charter Company is wonderful to deal with, and Its MADE IN THE USA

srwshooter
April 17, 2011, 12:01 PM
i've seen brand new charter arms revolvers that were so rough you couldn't hit a barn with them. the newer ones are junk.

i have owned around 10 different taurus guns ,both wheel guns and auto's and never had a problem with them. i have a tracker 357 ,4in barrel now. i'd like to find a more accurate 357 then this one,but i don't think anyone makes it. the smiths ,rugers and colt that i've shot haven't came close.

Hondo 60
April 17, 2011, 07:35 PM
I have a Charter Arms Undercover that I bought when I knew nothing.
Not that I know that much more now, but I do know I'd never buy another.

I've never owned a Taurus, but I've held a few of them.
I won't be buying any.

But the choices given were Taurus or Charter...

Under penalty of death... I'd buy a Taurus.

franco45
April 17, 2011, 11:33 PM
I currently own a new production Undercover 38 special and a new production Target Mag Pug in 357 magnum. Both are well made and very accurate. I had an early Undercover that I bought at a gun show. I bent the ejection rod by mistake. Charter Arms fixed it and didn't charge me a penny. A previous poster indicated that the original owner's family again owns the company. QC is 100% better than the Charco and Charter 2000 incarnations of the company.

gamestalker
April 18, 2011, 01:27 AM
A S&W model 10 can be found in that budget range. I bought a really nice one for about $250 and it was in excellent condition. But to address your specific question, I would go with a Taurus over a Charter arms any day of the week. I have a lot Taurus wheel guns and all are great pieces, especially if you plan on doing a lot of shooting, +P+ or other wise, they can tollerate what ever you throw at them, all day long!

blindhari
April 18, 2011, 02:02 AM
I do not own a Tarus but i do own 2 Charter Arms 38 Special On duty snubs. One I bought new and the other was taken for debt. Both are 2010 manufacture guns. New gun has pushed out over 600 rounds of 125 grain practice load and about 200 +p carry load, the other about 1/2 that much. No failures, no failures at all. These are so light I carry both in a vest for a New York reload. They are accurate within 20 yds and neither has failed in any way after more than 1000 rds. They aint like my S&W but they appear as if they will do the job I need done.

blindhari

lloveless
April 18, 2011, 02:37 AM
I have owned and do own now several of Charters .38 snubs, and a Bulldog Pug in .44 spcl. I have to laugh at joed. Did you shoot plus P's in it or handloads? Did you contact Charter they would have repaired it if the gun was at fault. There are junk guns from every company. If you buy something you think is a lemon don't fault all the guns. Maybe yours was made by someone on pain meds that day, stayed up all night on the computer, watched TV, had a fling. It happens. I guess I am fortunate. All of my Charters that I've bought shoot accurately, conceal well etc. I believe that Charter used/uses a plastic for the grip frame.
ll

sixguns4fighting
April 18, 2011, 07:32 AM
My advise is to check the local pawnshops and gunstores for a used S&W Model 10 revolver.

MCgunner
April 18, 2011, 02:34 PM
My advise is to check the local pawnshops and gunstores for a used S&W Model 10 revolver.


Got one, inherited, late 50s/early 60s manufacture. It's a good gun, but my Taurus 66 from about early 90s is better in every way, more accurate, stronger gun, just as good a trigger in DA or SA. I will sell neither.

JR47
April 18, 2011, 06:38 PM
he doesn't have to put up with second-rate guns that he's going to wonder if they're going to work when he needs them to.

Internet Commando BS.

The fabled S&W Model 10 for $100 is going the way of the dinosaur. Most of them around here are in the $200-250 range, for a used gun. I find it utterly ludicrous that anyone will recommend buying a used gun over a new one. Yes, if you're really good, you can rule out the most obvious problems in a used gun, but that still doesn't tell you when it will break, like the first shot in a gun-fight.

Using the same basic skills can allow anyone to check a new gun. I find it simply amazing how many people actually BUY guns with tilted barrels, horrible triggers, and funky sights and lousy finishes. They have a ton of excuses, but now they are whining about QC.

There are several threads about problems with S&W in this forum, but nobody mentions them.

FYI, a non+P rated Taurus Model 85 will last approximately 5000 rounds when used exclusively with +P and +P+ loads. It won't be dangerous, but will start shaving lead slightly at that point.

Sems to me, as to the comment of metallurgy, that it was K-frame S&W revolvers that shot loose with a steady diet of the roll-marked caliber. Not Taurus. It was also S&W that shed barrels during qualification of a prison guard detachment.

JR47
April 18, 2011, 06:39 PM
I'll also add that the OP wanted a snub-nosed revolver. Most of the fabled S&W Model 10s out here are 4".

rodinal220
April 18, 2011, 06:46 PM
Charter Arms,not Charco or Charter 2000,the last two were when the company was under different control and QC wasnt the best.The earlier Charters were decent guns but the new one are better with the one piece barrels.

Remo223
April 18, 2011, 09:56 PM
I have owned and do own now several of Charters .38 snubs, and a Bulldog Pug in .44 spcl. I have to laugh at joed. Did you shoot plus P's in it or handloads? Did you contact Charter they would have repaired it if the gun was at fault. There are junk guns from every company. If you buy something you think is a lemon don't fault all the guns. Maybe yours was made by someone on pain meds that day, stayed up all night on the computer, watched TV, had a fling. It happens. I guess I am fortunate. All of my Charters that I've bought shoot accurately, conceal well etc. I believe that Charter used/uses a plastic for the grip frame.
ll
nope, it's anodized aluminum

MikeNice
April 18, 2011, 10:10 PM
;) You mean like $337 for a SS Bodyguard? <---includes shipping!

http://www.jetguns.com/m638-bodyguard-special-stainless-p-487.html

Yeah yeah I know FFL fee...etc... Ok, in your hands for $357? Strictly as an aside, it blows my mind that people pick the LCR over this...
But the Taurus 2617 is less expensive, holds two rounds more, and will fire .357mag as well.

Jet Guns Taurus 2617 (http://www.jetguns.com/2617021-m617-p-1578.html)

sixgunner455
April 19, 2011, 07:30 AM
Quote:
he doesn't have to put up with second-rate guns that he's going to wonder if they're going to work when he needs them to.
Internet Commando BS.

The fabled S&W Model 10 for $100 is going the way of the dinosaur. Most of them around here are in the $200-250 range, for a used gun. I find it utterly ludicrous that anyone will recommend buying a used gun over a new one. Yes, if you're really good, you can rule out the most obvious problems in a used gun, but that still doesn't tell you when it will break, like the first shot in a gun-fight.

And if you're inexperienced with firearms, but moderately literate, you can read Jim March's revolver evaluation thread and look over a new or used gun to rule out obvious problems nearly as well as the guy with decades of shooting revolvers. And it still won't tell you whether your gun is going to beat the odds in your enemy's favor and break at the first shot in a gunfight.

Now. Where do you get off, man? I'm no internet commando, and I'm not shoveling BS, real or the "internet commando" version. I'm talking about finding deals on really good, reliable, useable guns. When a guy has convinced himself that his budget is going to limit him to two brands whose reputations are sometimes quite spotty, it is not ridiculous to suggest that he look around more, do more research and shopping, learn something before he buys, and make a much more informed decision.

Right there in your post, you say that Model 10 S&W revolvers in your area are going for between $200 and $250. That is easily within the suggested budget OP presented. I'd buy a Model 10 for $250 any day of the week over a new or used Charter, and most Taurus, in the same price range. Yes, I would. And I'd recommend it to a friend, too. Or give one to my father. And I wouldn't consider such a decision nor recommendation to be ridiculous, either.

I would consider it the smart choice for several reasons, not the least of which is - that S&W is never going to be worth less than it is right now. That Charter is never going to be worth more than it is right now, and that Taurus is probably not going to go up in value, either.

Spend your money how you want. I know what I'm going to do, and what I'll recommend to anyone who asks me for advice.

Good day, sir.

The_Shootist
April 19, 2011, 04:57 PM
I wish one of two things:

1) Ruger made a .44 spl snubby to compete with the Bulldog except that it
would have all of Rugers durability/QC that Charter (allegedly) doesn't have

2) Taurus to bring back their .44 spl/.45 LC snubby line.

I guess both companies did market research to find out whether lines like that could be profitable and decided they weren't.

As an aside I have a M85 Blued with 1000+ rounds through it (mainly +P)and no problems or defects whatsoever. Its more of a truck gun / spare simply because my 642 is lighter and easier for pocket carry. But I have no issues or concerns about carrying it for CHL duty.

In fact, if I had some spare cash (which I really don't - but you never know when it comes to guns :p) I'd likely pick pick up the M856 - same size as the '85 but a 6 shot snubby, which can't be a bad idea).

Walking Dead
April 20, 2011, 06:20 PM
Can't speak on the Charter as I have never fired one but my Taurus is amazing to shoot. Best thing you can do is find a gun range that will rent you both.

jtoonjr
April 20, 2011, 07:22 PM
Hey all. This my first time on your site. Pretty cool. My question for ya is "is it safe to shoot +p 38's through an early CA undercover(circa 1980 I gather)? I have some 110 grain hollow points but haven't tried them yet.

32 Magnum
April 21, 2011, 09:37 AM
jtoonjr,
The original (1st Generation) Charter Arms Corp. specifically stated in all the catalogues that I have, that the UNDERCOVER, 5 shot .38 SPL. was not designed to handle +P Ammunition. The POLICE variants (made on the larger BULLDOG frame) 6 shot .38s were capable of handling the +P .38s as this frame would also handle .357 Mags, as well as the better known .44 SPL cartridges. From all the evidence, I wouldn't shoot +P .38s in any of my UNDERCOVER or OFFDUTY pieces.
I am not familiar with the current (3rd Gen.) specifications.

I'm3rd
April 21, 2011, 12:19 PM
I haven't owned or even fired a Charter revolver, but when they first came on the market several decades ago I examined one at a gun shop and was favorably impressed by both the design and the quality of fit and finish for that price range. At that time all Charters were snubbies and quite a few cops bought them for a BUG and some plain clothes cops were buying them for a duty gun. Since then the company has gone through several owners, and quality has gone from "good for the price" to "awful at any price", depending on who was running the shop when it was built. On the other hand I have owned 2 Taurus revolvers, a 6" .357 and a 2-1/2" .357. Mine are well built and nicely finished, not quite up to the build quality of the old line Smiths of long ago days that I own and have owned, but entirely adequate for the price. Bottom line for me, if I had to choose between Charter or Taurus I would have to go with the manufacturer that I have experience with, Taurus.

snooperman
April 21, 2011, 02:06 PM
and still going strong with no problems . I can not say that about my S&W guns for sure. I like the CA guns. I have seen the new ones and shot one for several years and I believe they are as good as the older ones.

MCgunner
April 21, 2011, 06:15 PM
I would consider it the smart choice for several reasons, not the least of which is - that S&W is never going to be worth less than it is right now. That Charter is never going to be worth more than it is right now, and that Taurus is probably not going to go up in value, either.

I'll invest in mutual funds, thanks. I ain't interested in ever selling one of my firearms. They're for shooting, Smith, Taurus, Rossi, or Ruger...lessee, don't think I left out a revolver brand....oh, wait, or ASM, NAA, or Pietta!

sixgunner455
April 21, 2011, 09:37 PM
McG - I'm never interested in selling one - when I *buy* it. But I've surprised myself before with what I've sold, or found myself considering selling.

I'm3rd
April 21, 2011, 10:28 PM
I have owned several Taurus revolvers over the past 20+ years, and all but one was satisfactory considering the price I paid for them. However, the only reason I can see now for choosing Taurus over a Smith is lower price, and as long as I can find used Smiths in VG to Excellent condition, (like the VG+ condition mod 10 I bought for 2/3 the price of a comparable new Taurus) I don't see a Taurus in my future.

I'm3rd
April 21, 2011, 11:10 PM
I should correct any misconception or confusion I may have created by what appears to be a conflict between my two previous posts. I first said I own 2 Taurus revolvers, but neglected to say that I recently sold one of them to my brother in law. In the 2nd post I said that I had owned several (more than two) Taurus revolvers, which is true, but didn't say that all but the last two were owned back in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I know this doesn't matter to anyone but myself, and I only care because I don't want to be taken as either a moron or a liar on my first day posting on this site. I may be a moron, but I'm not a liar.

Smaug
April 21, 2011, 11:26 PM
I believe they're at least American made. If not, I know they're an American company, so you stand a higher chance of good customer service.

jtoonjr
April 22, 2011, 03:31 AM
jtoonjr,
The original (1st Generation) Charter Arms Corp. specifically stated in all the catalogues that I have, that the UNDERCOVER, 5 shot .38 SPL. was not designed to handle +P Ammunition. The POLICE variants (made on the larger BULLDOG frame) 6 shot .38s were capable of handling the +P .38s as this frame would also handle .357 Mags, as well as the better known .44 SPL cartridges. From all the evidence, I wouldn't shoot +P .38s in any of my UNDERCOVER or OFFDUTY pieces.
I am not familiar with the current (3rd Gen.) specifications.
Hey 32 magnum,
Thanks for the info. I thought as much. No +p's in my CA undercover. Wanna buy a box of shells? ;-)

Walking Dead
April 22, 2011, 07:50 AM
Yeah because everyone knows you will never get bad customer service from an American company.

MCgunner
April 22, 2011, 08:25 AM
Yeah because everyone knows you will never get bad customer service from an American company.

Yeah, like Kahr, for instance. :D

thetoad45
July 3, 2011, 01:39 PM
I am sick of those bashing Taurus. I have owned and currently own Taurus revolvers. In fact I am a week away from buying another stainless 65. I have never had an issue with any revolver from Taurus. I plan to purchase two model 85 the first of the year. Why? Because I have owned them and have confidence in them. My brother owns a model 85 and likes it a lot. His friend owns a Taurus full size semi auto and likes it. For every one who complains about their Taurus there are tens of thousands who like theirs. That's the bad thing about these forums. The angry lash out and their point of view is picked up and spreads like fire throughout the internet mostly by people who have never actually owned one. Is it because they are made in Brazil? Are the only good guns made in USA? Hardly. If there is ever an issue with my Taurus I can rely on them to FIX IT. I bought a stainless Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt and the cylinder locked up on me after a few rounds. When I contacted Ruger the person on the phone acted like I was to blame and hinted that perhaps it was all my fault their wonder gun wasn't working. Well it finally got shipped and they did repair it but what a hassle not to mention putting up with their insults. Have not purchased any more Rugers. At one time I purchased Smith & Wesson J frame revolvers. But after using both Smith and Taurus side by side I sold the Smiths (along with two stainless 686's) and never looked back. Smith is a British owned company not an American company and after they tried to sell the American gun owner down the toilet (Clinton era) I will never again give them a penny of my business. I have no first hand knowledge about Charter Arms guns but I did talk with their customer service people a few weeks ago and the nice lady said that less than 1% of their revolvers were ever returned for repair and those that are are fixed and shipped from the factory within a week of their arrival. I enjoyed our chat and I would buy one of their revolvers anytime. Why? Because they are willing to stand behind their products and fix whatever goes wrong. ANY manufacturer can turn out a dud. Because they cost a small fortune doesn't mean they are immune to problems.

franco45
July 3, 2011, 03:09 PM
Toad, the bashing on this thread ended in April. Have you been stewing since then? Or were you just looking for a place to talk up your Taurus revolvers?

Strahley
July 3, 2011, 04:47 PM
I've had 3 Taurus revolvers, none of them gave me any problems. I sold two because I ended up wanting something different, but I do still have one (which is a .22LR) and I love it. It's equally as fun to shoot as my Buck Mark, which I also love

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