30-06 vs 358 Win


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fggrub
April 14, 2011, 12:22 PM
I currently have a Winchester Pre64 in 30-06, which has mostly been used on Deer. Thinking about taking a trip out west to go for Elk. Some of my friends have told me that I should get something a little more powerful than the 30-06. Also, looking to go for Moose in Maine or Canada next year. Checking the ballistics on the 180gr 30-06 and the 250gr 358 Win, it seems that the 30-06 packs more energy than the 358 Win - surprised me! Am I looking at this totally wrong? Also, I am trying to keep the recoil to the minimum, otherwise I would get a 300 WinMag or a 375 H&H.

Would appreciate some feedback.

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CoRoMo
April 14, 2011, 12:52 PM
Thinking about taking a trip out west to go for Elk. Some of my friends have told me that I should get something a little more powerful than the 30-06.
That's silly. The '06 is wonderful medicine for elk and moose. It's not unusual for my elk camps to contain cartridges that begin with a '2', so don't worry about your .30 caliber rifle. Just worry about your aim, your legs and your lungs.

NCsmitty
April 14, 2011, 12:52 PM
You already have a great elk, moose cartridge in the 30'06. If you were considering large bear, then I would recommend a 338 Win Mag, but for cloven hooved animals, the '06 will do it all in a rifle that you know.
The 358 Win is of course based on the 308 case and can do a decent job within range, but it's ammo availability is suspect.



NCsmitty

Justin Holder
April 14, 2011, 01:08 PM
If you want a step up in power over the .30-06 you should look into a .35 Whelen. It will handle 250gr bullets better than the 358 win. and give a little extra velocity for toughs 300 yard shots.

GooseGestapo
April 14, 2011, 01:31 PM
Apples vs. Oranges...

The .30/06 in your average Sporter rifle (long-action, ~9.0lbs with scope), the .30/06 is all the way around more superior to the excellent but hamstung .358wcf.

The .358 is superior to the .30/06 when it come to putting it in a compact rifle, and when fed with a premium bullet such as a Nosler .358" 250gr Partition, for SHORT RANGE use on LARGE game such as moose and great bears (brown, grizzley). But then,only when fed handloaded ammo....

The .30/06 is a PROVEN cartridge when fed a 200gr or heavier bullet, but guides prefer a larger gun for "STOPPING" a wounded and/or enraged bear, such as a cornered sow with cubs or a wounded animal, or one defending a carcass. There is a difference between the .30/06 and the offspring .338/06 and .35Whelen. But, it's not THAT MUCH difference. I went with the .338/06 rather than the Whelen I'd long planned on building as the .338 has superior downrange ballistics to either the .30 or .35. At ranges beyond 200yds the .30/06 IS superior to the .35Whelen. No doubt about it.

The advantage of the .30/06 is not with the nebulous "foot/lbs" of energy. It's in the construction, ballistic coefficient, and sectional density of the premium bullets that are common and easily available in factory loaded ammo, as well as handloading componenets. Both Barnes and Federal offer the Triple Shock and X-Bullets, as well as Federal, Remington, and others offering the premium bullets such as the Nosler Partitons, Swift A-frames, and Woodleigh Weldcore, not to mention the monolithic and bonded bullets by Hornady. There is/are only one factory load available for both the .35Whelen, and .358wcf as far as I know, and are only in standard line ammo. However, the 250gr Corlokt is excellent in the .35Whelen, but is loaded quite lightly, like 2,300fps at the muzzle. Less from a 22" sporter. I know, as I chrono'd some ammo for a fellow at the range one day. It was a Remington M700 "Classic". The 200gr ammo went 2,600fps and the 250 ran 2,290fps. I convinced him he needed to start reloading by showing him my .338/06 and ammo loaded in .30/06 once fired range pick-up brass...... Since that time, the 250gr load has been dropped and only the 200gr loading is available. The .358wcf is the 250gr Winchester SilverTip, which is excellent on deer, perhaps elk, but it too lightly constucted for large game. They only chrono'd ~2,160fps from a friends BLR in .358, but killed deer very reliably. But, we recovered too many of them expanded to about 0.80" to be comfortable using them on anything more than hogs or black bears.

I've been drawn for an Elk tag in Wyoming this fall. Where I will be hunting also has grizzlies, as well as black bears. I'll be taking the light-weight .30/06 and my .338/06 (heavy at 10lbs, not something I carry very far). I, however don't particularily worry about the bears except on abandonded carcasses........ Then, I tred lightly and carry another friend as backup, and help for packing out the remains.... I'll likely feed the .30 with 180gr Nosler Part's, and the .338 is loaded with 210gr Partitions @2,800fps, and 250gr Hornady PtSpt "Interloks" @ 2,600fps.

jmr40
April 14, 2011, 01:59 PM
The 06 is hard to beat for what you want. The 358, 35 Whelen or several other larger calibers MIGHT put down a big animal a bit faster, but you limot your range with those rounds.

A 7mm mag or 300 mag would give you a little more effective range than the 30-06, but not much. I'd use what I had.

rcmodel
April 14, 2011, 02:06 PM
+1

Put your money in proper bullets for the 30-06 and it will kill anything that walks in the lower 48 DRT.

Look at Nosler Partition or other premium bonded-core hunting ammo for the really big stuff.

rc

Flfiremedic
April 14, 2011, 02:15 PM
I'd go with the 06. If you want to upgrade, the 35 Whelen gets it done! I love mine. Hearing good things of the 338 Fed if you want to go with a short action.

CraigC
April 14, 2011, 02:31 PM
The .30-06 may get the job done with boring regularity but I'll take any excuse I can get to buy another rifle. IMHO, nearly anything would be more fun and interesting. Get the .358 or a .35Whelen if you want, they 'are' a bigger hammer. ;)

Robert
April 14, 2011, 02:43 PM
Some of my friends have told me that I should get something a little more powerful than the 30-06.
Yup, Elk is armor plated here in CO...

06 is plenty fine.

wombat13
April 14, 2011, 03:26 PM
If you really want to go with something bigger, check out the .338-06 as GooseGestapo mentioned. It is a very efficient cartridge. In another thread I discussed my findings when I compared cartridges against the .30-06. The .338-06 is on of the few cartridges that offers a greater increase in energy than its increase in recoil. A 210 NP loaded to 2750 fps offers about 25% more energy than a 180 gr. .30 cal @ 2700 fps, but only about an 18% increase in recoil. The increase in recoil is much greater than the increase in energy for most magnum cartridges.

SwampWolf
April 16, 2011, 06:03 PM
Get the .358 or a .35Whelen if you want, they 'are' a bigger hammer.

And they are not that limited in range distance; certainly a long ways (pun intended :)) from being short range cartridges in terms of their trajectories.

TGReaper
April 16, 2011, 06:48 PM
If what I had was my 30-06 I would be quite happy to take it to hunt elk or moose.
Because I am fortunate enough to have them I would likely take my .375 H&H for decent conditions and my .300 Win.Mag carbine ( stainless and plastic) for bad weather.

TGR

788Ham
April 17, 2011, 12:10 AM
Take the '06 and don't look back, unless that is you see a griz! :eek:

Kachok
April 17, 2011, 12:58 AM
Don't think of it in terms of "energy" heavier slower moving bullets peneatrate deeper, and do more damage on the far side of the hide and fat then faster shock bullets do. Many thousands of bear/elk/moose have been taken with the "puney" 30-30 before they were replaced with faster and faster calibers. Not saying the slower calibers are more effective, just that they kill a little different. Think of heavier bullets as just being more efficient with the energy they do have, that puts it into a realistic context.

Johnny Guest
April 17, 2011, 11:17 AM
Some years ago while preparing for an elk hunt, I bought a .338 Winmag. I spent many happy hours working up and testing loads. Elder Son was taking a .300 Winmag on that hunt and we spent a lot of time on his loads as well.

I also felt the .338 would give me as comfortable edge if ever I got to hunt the big bears. (This was before I had a serious bout of heart trouble. :( )

I now have a couple of other large bore rifles, just 'cause I like them. though my days of stumbling up and down mountains are behind me. I can tell the difference between wanting a big rifle and needing one, though. If I were to get another chance at elk, I wouldn't feel a bit undergunned with my old .30'06 and proper 165 gr. loads.

Best,
Johnny

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