Extreme Shock ninja bullets


PDA






Pyro
April 14, 2011, 04:17 PM
The title is a little sarcastic but here I go...
Can someone persuade me not to buy these in .38 special.
The round I am looking to purchase is their EPR.
I've emailed Jeff Mullins about the round and he was very honest about their results. His email was not hyped up like their marketing. I have seen video tests from non-affiliated testers that does show how the round is able to penetrate hard materials (less it meets a very hard barrier (concrete/steel) in which it fragments) and then break up in a soft target. He claims what makes the round work properly is "pressurized fluids". In the email I asked generic questions between the difference of the AFR and the EPR. The only significant difference is a matter of how much compression they give the core. What makes the Air Freedom fragment so easily is the loose compression they give it. He also said the majority of their bullets are created through "trial and error" since his bullet structures are not scientifically understood yet.
The round is able to penetrate a human sternum and then fragment itself over the vitals. But just like a Magsafe or a Glaser, the problem is with an obstruction. If an arm/forearm gets in the way, the bullet most likely will not penetrate through it. Although the bad guy will loose full function of the arm. In gel tests, the EPR actually gets fairly good penetration (http://www.potomacltd.com/perma_gel_tests.htm). If it encounters bodily areas which lacks the fluid density required to break the compressed tension of the core, it remains intact until it reaches it.
Please be civil in your responses.

If you enjoyed reading about "Extreme Shock ninja bullets" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rcmodel
April 14, 2011, 04:29 PM
since his bullet structures are not scientifically understood yet.Whats to understand? A bullet jacket full of Nytrilium?

Maybe he can't find a real scientist who has a clue what Nytrilium is.
Yea! Thats the problem right there!

We know the 135 grain Speer Gold Dots and the old 158 grain LSWC-HP FBI load work as well as anything can work at .38 Spl. velocity.

And it is scientifically understood why by the bullet designers and bullet tester critters.

You can also afford to buy enough of them to function test your gun and shoot them for practice occasionally.

Instead of paying $2 bucks a pop for ES "misunderstood" voodoo bullets!

rc

Pyro
April 14, 2011, 04:34 PM
Nytrilium is just a word they've come up with as far as I know.
The same as Federal calling their line of bullets "Nyclad" (which is just a nylon coating).

ldhulk
April 14, 2011, 04:58 PM
The Federal Hydro-shok depend on compressed fluids to expand. They have been found to be as effective as anything else in their various calibers. A bullet can do only two things right: penetrate and dump its energy doing tissue damage. Since you never know ahead of time what the bullet may encounter (arm bone, heavy clothing, layers of fat), you had better err on the side of penetration and stick to proven designs rather than some trick bullet. I think Elmer Kieth may have mentioned that.

bigfatdave
April 14, 2011, 05:04 PM
http://tinyurl.com/43ofm86
Lots of previous discussion in that link.

ES ammo (and glasers, and DRT, and all the other "magic bullets) are marketing and nothing more.
You can't solve the problems they claim to solve with hardware, you can solve it with training, and you can solve it with planning.

there is no magic bullet

Vonderek
April 14, 2011, 05:59 PM
Can someone persuade me not to buy these in .38 special.
Not trying to be disrespectful but reading your entire post it sounds to me that your mind is already made up. So short of me saying I shot someone with ES and it just bounced off their forehead there is really nothing I can say to persuade you against it. So go ahead and buy some and run some tests with it and report back to us how they worked. I would personally not waste my time with it as there are plenty of proven conventional JHPs available that I trust.

earlthegoat2
April 14, 2011, 07:50 PM
Since whenever extreme shock ammo is brought up, someone has to post the brilliant picture from their homepage, I will do it this time.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/top_2.jpg

hirundo82
April 14, 2011, 07:51 PM
Maybe he can't find a real scientist who has a clue what Nytrilium is.
Yea! Thats the problem right there!

It's an alloy of unobtainium and powdered unicorn horn.

Frozen North
April 14, 2011, 08:19 PM
Since whenever extreme shock ammo is brought up, someone has to post the brilliant picture from their homepage, I will do it this time.

Are those guys real ninjas? Maybe I should ask my mom! (sarcasm):rolleyes:

Zombiphobia
April 14, 2011, 08:28 PM
the black guy on the right has white hands... and the same eyes as the white guy in the middle.... that's wierd.

THplanes
April 14, 2011, 10:16 PM
Since whenever extreme shock ammo is brought up, someone has to post the brilliant picture from their homepage, I will do it this time.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/top_2.jpg
In order to get the full mall ninja effect, it really should say operator instead of agent.

drbeans
April 14, 2011, 11:18 PM
Thats me on the left. You guys should bite your tongues. Where are the nunchucks?

madcratebuilder
April 15, 2011, 08:07 AM
Any bullet that leaves a .38spl barrel well be an extreme shock, just try it and see.

Sam1911
April 15, 2011, 08:36 AM
Look, reposting pictures of the Ninja Masters of the Temple of the Exploding Pants surely can't be helping Pyro make up his mind. (But it sure is funny! :))

Best answer is what Vonderek said: Buy some and run some kind of head-to-head test with Gold Dots, Federal HPs, and anything else you can get.

More pseudo-scientific ammo won't solve any problem that good shot placement can't -- or that poor shot placement causes, so find a kind of ammo that hits at your point of aim, develops as much power as you're able to control, and (most importantly) sets your mind at ease about your ammo choice so you can concentrate on more important issues.

(Issues like your skills at fighting with the gun, making hits under stress, defensive/situationally-aware mindset, and so forth.)

((If your choice of ammo does call into question whether your pants will explode, that could distract from the bigger picture, so ... one strike against Extreme Shock! :D))

bigfatdave
April 15, 2011, 10:25 AM
uy some and run some kind of head-to-head test with Gold Dots, Federal HPs, and anything else you can get.Do it at MY RANGE, I'll set up the stand and bring water jugs, guns, and the mainstream ammo.
You bring the EXTREME SHOCKIFICATION!!1!!1!!eleven!! ammo and help lug the jugs.

slk
April 15, 2011, 11:34 AM
Heh, good catch Zombi

I like that the 2 guys (ahem, same guy in 2 poses) whose left is facing forward have the 'Agent' tag on the left of the vest. And the third guy (cough same guy in racist pose) whose right is facing forward forward has the tag on the right side. God forbid we can't clearly read the word 'Agent' on all of them. Otherwise I might have doubts about their qualifications.

I can't say I know all that much about good self defense rounds, but seeing as this is the internet I'll speak my mind anyhow. I think that someone clever enough to invent a round that did something highly desirable using principals that modern science doesn't understand could come up with better advertising. I don't know, maybe he's an idiot savant who hired his mall ninja brother to help run the company.

But generally speaking I've found that "Science can't explain it" usually means "I can't can't explain it." With a "because I couldn't think of any reason why it should work" connotation.

But YMMV

MICHAEL T
April 15, 2011, 01:45 PM
Picture is Al Gore , Obama, Reed coming for your vote


Save your money and buy a good HP

If you enjoyed reading about "Extreme Shock ninja bullets" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!