Taurus Judge opinions?


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ErikO
April 16, 2011, 08:42 PM
I've always been facinated by 'hold-out' guns chambered for .410 and am looking at the Judge pretty closely, specifically the 410TKR-3BMAG (3" .410, 3" barrel). $519 @ Cabela's at the moment.

Does anyone have one and if so what should I expect outside of it being a bit snappy when firing .410 loads?

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Nushif
April 16, 2011, 09:16 PM
I've gotten to shoot several varieties of the Judge before and if I had the loose cash I'd get one in a heartbeat.

It's snappy, but not anymore so than my .45 Colt. ... but when properly applied ... (ie a pumpkin, close range steel item or piece of food) it makes FUN happen!

Rat Robb
April 16, 2011, 09:18 PM
The Judge, to me, is a novelty gun. I have shot my friend's and didn't see the benefit of ever owning one other than saying I have one.

-Robb

Onward Allusion
April 16, 2011, 09:24 PM
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/smiley-face-popcorn.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

ricebasher302
April 16, 2011, 09:24 PM
I've shot two. The first gun put lead .45 slugs into the target sideways. Wasn't impressed.

The second Judge shot jacketed .45 REALLY well. I think the difference was the jacketed bullet engaging the shallow rifling better. That same gun was very inpressive with buckshot loads also, keeping the pellets within 2.5 inches at 25 feet. I could bust hand thrown (tossed without a plastic "flinger") clays with bird shot very easily, so it probably is great on snakes.

Unfortunately, I am not impressed with Taurus' manufacturing. Seen lots of their revolvers need work right out of the box. Several that wont even index all chambers. Very crudely machined.

ErikO
April 16, 2011, 10:07 PM
Thanks, folks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I wouldn't be getting this for a while, and S&W has a 2.5" .410 'New Governor' coming out next month which hopefully won't have the manufacturing issues that I've heard about Taurus' revolvers.

If I were to use this for HD I'd be too tempted to get something stupid to fire out of it like FireQuest flechettes and wreck my house. ;) I would definately be getting this more for a backup varmint gun while hunting or hiking.

I'm still happy to hear from anyone else with an opinion on this or any other .410 revolver. :)

243winxb
April 16, 2011, 10:08 PM
Good for close work from what i see at the range. Funny looking copper disk , like a camera battery in the Winchester Supreme Elite Self Defense Ammunition 410 Bore 2-1/2" 3 Disks over 1/4 oz BB Bonded PDX1. http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/pdx1_410pack_shells-tfb.jpg

waidmann
April 16, 2011, 10:12 PM
Erik, I agve my then 78 yo dad a 2.5" chambered one for HD and as a South Mississippi field companion. With the new Federal 4 pellet cartridge I would not want to be in his bedroom with it. Ditto a cottonmouth in similar distance with #9,s. I shot a serviceable group with cowboy load. Between arthritis and other age related factors I felt it a good choice for him.

However, for a non-HD kick-around companion I far prefer my 3" Comanche single shot with the wad lock installed. It extends the range about 50%

ErikO
April 16, 2011, 10:27 PM
243WinXB, that load is what has me looking at the 3" cyl version. Four copper disks and 16 BBs going out the end should make it more fun to shoot.

I'll get something more sensible for personal defense and home defense. Once that's accomplished, I'll get something like this for fun and possibly as a second option after I get my CCW permit.

Gryffydd
April 17, 2011, 12:23 AM
Wonderful sectional density on that load. Should be a great penetrator. Good thing it's got some bird shot thrown in--another great penetrating projectile. :scrutiny:

bcp280z
April 17, 2011, 03:23 PM
I have a 10in Super Commanche, just for fun 45/410, single shot, just for fun, cost me less than $200, accurate with buck/bird, pathetic with 45lc.

-Waid, I hadn't seen a 3" Commanche do we have the same gun? What's a wad lock?

Hondo 60
April 17, 2011, 04:44 PM
Any gun that's chambered for more than one cartridge generally isn't going to do either very well.
That's why guns like the Ruger Blackhawk convertibles have more than one cylinder.
Each can be optimized for it's own cartridge.

While I haven't held or shot S&W's Governor, I'd be will to bet it doesn't shoot as well as a dedicated gun either.
I'd bet a Model 25 shoots 45 Colt a lot more accurately than a Governor.

Of course there are exceptions, but you don't know if your gun is one of those until you buy & shoot it.

dprice3844444
April 17, 2011, 05:08 PM
only problem now is the ammo manufacturers are making the 410's with shot that will show rifleing.have to hunt the gunshows for the old stuff

Rule3
April 17, 2011, 05:17 PM
Never did understand the fascination with the Judge. Great marketing hype. The 410 is pretty snappy in it but is a dismal defense round even with the new fangled "special ammo" Not saying I would want to be hit in the face with it but why bother, just get a 45 Colt or ACP.

Taurus reliability is well Taurus.

If you need to shoot someone with it Why not the the 45 Colt with 250 grains of lead??

At least the SW version will be able to shoot 45 ACP also.

Arkiemilitia
April 17, 2011, 05:19 PM
Mine has a 2 1/2 cylinder.Should have bought the 3" perhaps.That way you could shoot any kind of 410.
Rob said he didn't see the benefit.????It is a perfect truck gun,home protection and snake gun, as well as being able to stop most any kind of threat to your person. I switch from 410 to 45 l c on occasion.If traveling i feel i need to penetrate something i go with 45 l c metal jacket.home defense i rotate between 410 and hollow points or self defense loads.Sometimes rotating 410,45,410.
If a skunk or varmint is keeping the dogs barking the 410 is nice.
The judge is heavy enough to balance the recoil.The grips make it nearly impossible to drop or be kicked out of the hand whether sweaty or maybe bloody.
Sometimes i wish i'd bought a 45 acp,but all in all you can't beat a revolver as far as dependability.my opinion.

Arkiemilitia
April 17, 2011, 05:23 PM
Could you explain wad lock?Thanks.

CraigC
April 17, 2011, 05:24 PM
A silly gimmick at best.

baylorattorney
April 17, 2011, 05:29 PM
Best all around ranch truck handgun I've ever owned by a long shot. Please note: All my shot are well well within 50 yards. The variety of loads available and the ability to stagger them in a 6 cylinder I appreciate. Added cT laser grips and I don't know how I managed before. I own the public defender version, a bit smaller and lighter with a bob tailed hammer - also it costs a bit less. I've taken snake and 200 lb wild hog alike with one shot one kills multiple impacts!!!!

Arkiemilitia
April 17, 2011, 05:31 PM
I haven't heard about technical or other problems with Taurus pistols.I've has Taurus pistols for over 2 decades and have found them to be as good an any.i got rid of most of my expensive guns like s&w and Ruger because i could use the money for ammo,etc....
I'm sure there are lemons in Taurus as well as all the rest.The worst i ever had was a Glock 19. The hi point i had was by far a more accurate,dependable weapon. Sig has them beat as far as price and dependability. I don't care for Glock but my friend has one in every caliber.
Like cars or trucks there are good in all of them.Just because i don't like them doesn't make them bad.

JShirley
April 17, 2011, 05:33 PM
Just plain silly. The fact that it's sold so well makes me weep for the future of gun ownership in the U.S.

The only legitimate use I see for this, is for the farm owner who frequently encounters vermin or snakes at close range. That's it.

J

Arkiemilitia
April 17, 2011, 05:36 PM
I think that distance is many folks problem.They feel a 45 l c will kill at 100 yds. much like the 1911 in 45,they are "trench" or defense guns.Something to keep people off you.
Reminds me of a video i saw on youtube where a guy said he could hit dead center at 300 yds with his AK47 continuously.I don't like to be called a liar and don't call people liars.He was close.Ha.My Ak is pretty good at 30-100yds period.That's what i have it for.Fun to shoot and keep a perimiter..

Arkiemilitia
April 17, 2011, 05:40 PM
Do you include 357/38 in that call?What you say has merit but cannot be used against any and all guns.

Rule3
April 17, 2011, 05:42 PM
If you need to shoot snakes or rats just get some CCI shot shells in most revolver and some semi auto calibers.

CraigC
April 17, 2011, 05:45 PM
The only legitimate use I see for this, is for the farm owner who frequently encounters vermin or snakes at close range. That's it.
That's about it and we already have very effective shotshells for .44's and .45's. So???

Arkiemilitia
April 17, 2011, 05:46 PM
A friend shot some of that penetrator ammo.Said it was deadly.A disc about wast high,center of the chest and solar plexus,along with pellets making a mess.Phwew!
I shot some buckshot out of my judge.Nasty results.
Buckshot,slugs,birdshot,45lc????Extremely impressive.
I looked at a Commanche.there were some guys rabbit hunting in thick brush.As the beagles ran a rabbit by this guy popped it.I handled a few at gun shows but they seemed a bit weak to me.Not as sturdy as a Judge.I'm sure they'd do the job !

Ratshooter
April 17, 2011, 05:59 PM
I haven't heard about technical or other problems with Taurus pistols.
What planet are you from? :eek::neener::evil:

PcolaDawg
April 17, 2011, 06:01 PM
I like mine. It's the one handgun I've gotten the most practical use out of. I wear it when I mow my four acres and l've been able to kill a few poisonous snakes with it that otherwise would've gotten away. Just point, click, and dead snake.

I'll also carry it under my seat on long road trips, full of buckshot. Occasionally, during the winter, I'll carry it in a conceal/carry jacket when I go to the movies or something.

And yeah, it's also a bit of a novelty gun. When people come over, they always want to shoot .410 shells out of the Judge.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :cool:

MCgunner
April 17, 2011, 06:31 PM
I have a TC Contender 3" .410/.45 Colt barrel. It doesn't like lead, I think, because all that freebore allows hot gasses by the bullet before it reaches the rifling. It leads up terribly. 300 grain Hornady hot handloads, however, ain't too bad. With all that freebore, it will NEVER challenge my other Contender barrels for accuracy, though. Add a forcing cone to that formula and I doubt the Judge's accuracy would impress me.

Thanks, folks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I wouldn't be getting this for a while, and S&W has a 2.5" .410 'New Governor' coming out next month which hopefully won't have the manufacturing issues that I've heard about Taurus' revolvers.

Well, heard about is the key here. Yeah, there could be issues with any particular weapon, but then, Smith and Wesson is NOT immune to that now days, either. Smith and Wesson's reputation is rapidly going to the toilet now days. Key is to check out the gun before purchase. I prefer used, myself, but that isn't an option with the gubner, but then, I really don't want one.

benderx4
April 17, 2011, 08:10 PM
Just a bit too "gimmicky" for me. Plus, its ugly.

Nushif
April 17, 2011, 08:26 PM
The fact that it's sold so well makes me weep for the future of gun ownership in the U.S.

People probably said that about the first cartridge rounds, the first semi auto, the first rifled shotgun slugs ...
I'm not going to sit here and say that the Judge is the best thing since sliced cheese and will revolutionize the gun industry, but I do propose that the idea of one gun shooting several cartridges *may* be kind of a good idea?

MtnSpur
April 17, 2011, 08:39 PM
Owned the Judge w/ 2 1/2" cylinder and the 3" bbl in DAO (had the hidden hammer) and quite frankly just never did warm up to the trigger pull. I've shot my share of SA and DA revolvers and this particular weapon ended up on my short list so I ended up selling it and putting the $$ towards something else I'd had my eye on. Each to their own.

Bmac1949
April 17, 2011, 08:57 PM
I had one of the early Judges. They're a heck of a lot of fun but extreamly limited and pricey for what they do. If you are more than 15' of your target shot density drops dramatically and mine couldn't shoot .45LC worth a darn. I ended up selling mine and buying a bunch of reloading equipment. As far as home protection I'm much more comfortable with the 870 Remington with 00 buck.

Strahley
April 17, 2011, 09:29 PM
Snake gun

JShirley
April 17, 2011, 09:40 PM
People probably said that about the first cartridge rounds, the first semi auto, the first rifled shotgun slugs ...

Rubbish. This isn't an advance like a reliable self-loading handgun, which is sturdier, over twice as fast to reload, and holds 2 more rounds than most revolvers. This is a gimmick. And a bad shotgun and a bad revolver don't equate to "more versatile".

The carbine/shotgun version, on the hand, might have some utility.

Guillermo
April 17, 2011, 09:46 PM
it is a lousy shotgun and a bad 45.

It is a toy...

nothing wrong with toys

CraigC
April 17, 2011, 10:00 PM
People probably said that about the first cartridge rounds, the first semi auto, the first rifled shotgun slugs ...
Somehow I doubt it. Although we do know that Samuel Colt thought that metallic cartridges were silly. IMHO, a .410 revolver is not silly because it's new and different, it's silly because it's silly.

waidmann
April 17, 2011, 10:17 PM
BCP, I was referring to the chamber size as 3". Mine has an externally threaded barrel over 9" long. One appliance is in effect a cylinder bore tube for shooting 45 LC or for rapid spread. The wadlock has 4 shallow lands (?) which grasp the wad halting the spin imparted by the rifling. This extends the useful range.

Hunt480
April 17, 2011, 10:57 PM
One of the most useful guns I own, if you work around the farm or ride a tractor alot it is the perfect gun for snakes and load a couple LC45's for the two legged snakes. These folks that don't have use for a workin gun like this aint gonna say nothing good about a Taurus gun anyway. I own Smiths, Rugers and a few Taurus guns too. The truth is the Judge has many uses and very versatile. Its the perfect trashin around the farm workin gun IMO...

PcolaDawg
April 17, 2011, 11:30 PM
One of the most useful guns I own, if you work around the farm or ride a tractor alot it is the perfect gun for snakes and load a couple LC45's for the two legged snakes. These folks that don't have use for a workin gun like this aint gonna say nothing good about a Taurus gun anyway. I own Smiths, Rugers and a few Taurus guns too. The truth is the Judge has many uses and very versatile. Its the perfect trashin around the farm workin gun IMO...
What this guy said ^^^^^^.

Gryffydd
April 18, 2011, 03:17 AM
it is the perfect gun for snakes and load a couple LC45's for the two legged snakes.

I'd argue that a heavy duty 45 Colt or even a 44Mag is even more versatile than the Judge. You can load them with very effective shot shells, they have way more top end power than the 45 Colt from the Judge, way more effective range due to dramatically better accuracy, and are more compact due to not having a giant cylinder. You want a good working gun for snakes & everything else? Get any ol' revolver and stick a few shotshells in it.

These folks that don't have use for a workin gun like this aint gonna say nothing good about a Taurus gun anyway.
Nope, we just know there are better, cheaper, and more versatile guns out there--including Taurus' line of standard revolvers.

Lord Teapot
April 18, 2011, 07:22 AM
i considered buying one, but did a lot of research on the .410 and taurus themselves and neither made me feel confident in making a purchase. .410=adequate personal defense round, but not my choice. although i suppose i carry a 9mm, some would say that is not a good personal defense round, but imo if 9mm fmj is good enough for the united states military it is good enough for me.

oldfool
April 18, 2011, 08:13 AM
silly gimmick gun, yes
a watermelon gun, o wow

cheapo single shot shotguns are cheaper, more reliable, and far better suited to function with shotshells
yo, I own some few silly guns too (25 acp, 22LR derringer, etc.), but at least mine are cute
watermelon hunting just ain't my thing

JShirley
April 19, 2011, 08:37 PM
if 9mm fmj is good enough for the united states military it is good enough for me

Yeah...too bad it's not. The US Military has sought permission to use expanding rounds in certain situations. Because handgun FMJ is not a reliable stopper.

John

waidmann
April 19, 2011, 10:03 PM
Joining JShirley: The 9mm choice was driven by NATO standardization issues, the FMJ by the Laws of Land Warfare, the "wonder nine" by the fad of the day.

We who lived through that period were largely not fans of the choice or the conduct of the trials. Admittedly our WWII era M1911A1's were long past servicable in the mid-1980's. We would have much prefered new 1911's.

Walking Dead
April 20, 2011, 03:09 PM
If Smith&Wesson came out with the Govenor first we wouldn't have this thread now would we.

Gryffydd
April 20, 2011, 05:11 PM
If Smith&Wesson came out with the Govenor first we wouldn't have this thread now would we
Of course we would. It's a silly idea no matter who makes it. And in case you hadn't noticed, people on this board are very ready to criticize S&W.

daorhgih
April 20, 2011, 05:30 PM
I want to see the "Taurus KaB00M" site. If there is one. I'm fixin' to work up some hand-loads expressly for the 3" chamber. Not shot-shells, but various packs of discs and ball. Maybe some swaged-together LC wad-cutters. L1S1

ssyoumans
April 20, 2011, 05:56 PM
I see no redeeming value in the Judge. I'm still amazing when I see someone buying one, I want to tell them NO!

Box of truth did some basic testing. 410 shotshells are for snakes not self defense.
The 000 loads and 96gr slugs lacked penetration. The 45 LC is a solid round, but you don't need this oversized gun to shoot 45 LC. and other ones will shoot it more accurately.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

Personally, I'd opt for a 3" SP101 or 4" GP100. Then you can still load an effective snake shot and have 100's of choices of loads in 38 special or 357 Mag in a gun that isn't supersized. My $.02. I'm sure I own guns though that other people say the same about. :)

orionengnr
April 20, 2011, 08:10 PM
I know two people who bought them. Neither individual is a very, ummm... accomplished handgunner. Years, yes. Hours/rounds, no. Not to put too fine a point on it.

One has shot his once, and the other, last I knew, still has yet to fire his...and it's been probably two years.

That seems to be the target audience Taurus has in mind, and they have hit the bullseye.

I haven't heard about technical or other problems with Taurus pistols.I've has Taurus pistols for over 2 decades and have found them to be as good an any.i got rid of most of my expensive guns like s&w and Ruger because i could use the money for ammo,etc....
I'm sure there are lemons in Taurus as well as all the rest.The worst i ever had was a Glock 19. The hi point i had was by far a more accurate,dependable weapon.
Between this post, and the fact that about 50% of your total post count is within this one tread, you are doing a lot to establish your credibilty. Not. :)

wrs840
April 20, 2011, 09:12 PM
it is a lousy shotgun and a bad 45.

It is a toy...

nothing wrong with toys

^^^^^
This.


Originally Posted by Hunt480
One of the most useful guns I own, if you work around the farm or ride a tractor alot it is the perfect gun for snakes and load a couple LC45's for the two legged snakes. These folks that don't have use for a workin gun like this aint gonna say nothing good about a Taurus gun anyway. I own Smiths, Rugers and a few Taurus guns too. The truth is the Judge has many uses and very versatile. Its the perfect trashin around the farm workin gun IMO...

What this guy said ^^^^^^.

^^^^^
...And this too...


OK see... You have to figure it out. It's a "fun" gun or a "farm" gun. Definitely not a HD gun, IMO. I used to own two, now I own one, and have had it for at least three years. It's an Ultralite and I've had no mechanical problems with either. When it comes to shooting a copperhead, a #4 or #6 .410 shell makes quicker work of it than those .38 shotshell loads, but either works, so I tend to carry a 4" bbl. .38 or a .357 around the farm mostly now (and a couple .38 shotshell loads in my pocket), because .38/.357 revolvers are more accurate for larger vermin at a little distance, and just plain more fun to plink with. For me.

daorhgih
April 20, 2011, 09:22 PM
A lot of engineering has happened since B'O'Truth made their comments, four years ago. Both in the Judge and in the ammo. Are there any newer tests out here? Dao.

KAS1981
April 20, 2011, 09:24 PM
Pretty interesting, somewhat long-winded, "test" of the Judge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

daorhgih
April 20, 2011, 10:25 PM
Nice. Chatty Chuck showed some interesting points. Definitely need to familiarize yourself to the gun. Saw no terrifically bad "don't buy" items. Thanks. Dao.

THplanes
April 20, 2011, 10:31 PM
I see no redeeming value in the Judge. I'm still amazing when I see someone buying one, I want to tell them NO!

Box of truth did some basic testing. 410 shotshells are for snakes not self defense.
The 000 loads and 96gr slugs lacked penetration. The 45 LC is a solid round, but you don't need this oversized gun to shoot 45 LC. and other ones will shoot it more accurately.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

Personally, I'd opt for a 3" SP101 or 4" GP100. Then you can still load an effective snake shot and have 100's of choices of loads in 38 special or 357 Mag in a gun that isn't supersized. My $.02. I'm sure I own guns though that other people say the same about. :)
This post is just plain wrong. Here is a post a made a while back on the judge and ammo selection.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6379786&postcount=14


Ammo selection is very important with the judge. The .410 000 buck from Fed is the only good choice. The Win PDX1 is a new load since I wrote the above and is a gimick. BB size shot has inadequate penetration from a 12 ga. shotgun. It will be even worse in a super shorty .410. The 3 defense disks don't have enough sectional density penetrate. Even the Fed load is only good for 12 - 15 yards.


You do need to be carefull about what .45 colt load you choose. The gold dot does not have enough velocity to expand, It's only in the 650 fps range. Silver tips are inconsistent. I would choose a load from Bufalo Bore heavy std presure or the win PDX1 .45 colt load. It's listed at around 850 fps from a 3 inch barrel.

isc
April 20, 2011, 11:04 PM
I think they are a gimmick.

THplanes
April 20, 2011, 11:12 PM
I think they are a gimmick.
Another well thought out argument.

Hunt480
April 20, 2011, 11:43 PM
After watching the video it looks like one shot from the judge with the personal defense ammo definately will do some damage. Anybody that thinks that is gonna bounce off of a human is nuts. You want be doing that kinda damage with your little shotshells in your 357 or 44. I say the Judge is a very useful and versatile gun period and more than most. They are light wieght and come in all sizes. What is not to like about a gun this useful. Smith & Wesson figured this out late in the game too.

wrs840
April 20, 2011, 11:58 PM
It's not a personal defense gun. It's a dandy snake gun with shotshells that you may be able to hit a rabid skunk with at 50' feet with Silvertips if you practice a lot. It's also homely looking and poorly balanced. This is from personal experience.

On the subject of personal experience, how many links can anyone post of a bad-guy taken down DRT with a Judge? My guess is zero. Let's get real.

mebanecop
April 21, 2011, 12:04 AM
I carry mine in rattlesnake country in the NC mountains while prospecting and have never had any reason to complain. It's the best trailgun I have ever carried and I own Smiths, Rugers, Colts and Taurus. I agree that it is not my first choice for a CCW.

THplanes
April 21, 2011, 12:21 AM
Here is a bit more info I've found on the judge. About half way down the page there are posts from fsmith2610. He tests acuracy and wet pack penetration.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=43688.15

The following shows why the gold dot will not expand from a short barrel judge.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5785836&postcount=1


This shows what the gold dot will do from a longer barrel.

http://www.shooterslegacy.net/articles/45colt.html

If you want to knock taurus for problems with QC, I would agree. My bother and I have 2 judges and 5 semis from them. I had to do some minor work on one judge and one semi to get them reliable. That's pretty much no QC in my opinion.

You can criticise it for low capacity as well. I'd rather have my G20sf with an extended mag and 20 rds of 10mm.

The Fed .410 load has limited range. But with in 12 -15 yards, I would take it over any common SD round for round. The problem is it just does not carry enough of them for me. Others are free to make that choice for themselves.

wrs840
April 21, 2011, 12:33 AM
The Fed .410 load has limited range. But with in 12 -15 yards, I would take it over any common SD round for round.

Really? At 36-45 feet a Judge is going to have a shotshell pattern approaching the diameter of a Hot-Air balloon.

millertyme
April 21, 2011, 12:37 AM
same opinion I have of most of Taurus' obscure and unique offerings:

Novel at best.

THplanes
April 21, 2011, 12:41 AM
It's not a personal defense gun. It's a dandy snake gun with shotshells that you may be able to hit a rabid skunk with at 50' feet with Silvertips if you practice a lot. It's also homely looking and poorly balanced. This is from personal experience.

On the subject of personal experience, how many links can anyone post of a bad-guy taken down DRT with a Judge? My guess is zero. Let's get real.
Here is one

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/02/03/make-my-day-shooter/

The vid says he used buck of some sort. They show impact area where he missed his first shot. The pellets are in a close line, so I'd bet on it being the Fed load. I have read of 2 other cases where buck was used to kill bad guys. Didn't bookmark them so I can't give you the site or details. I've also read 2 other cases where the judge worked, but they didn't give details as to what ammo was used.

THplanes
April 21, 2011, 12:47 AM
Really? At 36-45 feet a Judge is going to have a shotshell pattern approaching the diameter of a Hot-Air balloon.
I take it you didn't read any of the links and have not seen what the Fed load can do. With the Fed .410 000 buck hand gun load the pattern is much tighter than you think. 4 pellets in a line that's 6 -7 inchs long 15 yards. Now if you're talking about bird shot or the Win 3 pellet load you would be correct.

wrs840
April 21, 2011, 12:49 AM
"Fell dead on his stoop" after a head-shot "coming down the second-floor stairs" isn't exactly DRT.

Gryffydd
April 21, 2011, 12:50 AM
On the subject of personal experience, how many links can anyone post of a bad-guy taken down DRT with a Judge? My guess is zero. Let's get real.
The question isn't really whether the Judge has ever killed anybody, or if it can. The question is what on Earth does it actually do better than any of the other guns on the market that are smaller, lighter, more accurate, and more versatile? What are the benefits that it offers that are enough to outweigh all the downsides it brings?

It's good for snakes? I can fit plenty of shot in a regular ol' 45 Colt, .44 mag, or just about any other revolver shotshell as well.
Even a .38 Shotshell is plenty for taking out a snake.

The only way it offers any kind of a decent personal defense round outside of the .45 Colt (in which case you're MUCH better off to just buy a .45 Colt revolver) is with buckshot. Even that really isn't that great from a handgun. At least it sure doesn't seem to offer any edge in lethality over good, deep penetrating expanding handgun rounds. So that leaves bird shot. Which is great, for birds, snakes, and.... birds. But the range doesn't really let you do much with it you can't do with shotshells from any other round.

So what does that leave us?

wrs840
April 21, 2011, 12:55 AM
4 pellets in a line that's 6 -7 inchs long 15 yards.

I've had some of those 000 Federals on my to-buy list. If they do that out of the 3" barrel of my Judge, I'll stand corrected.

THplanes
April 21, 2011, 12:58 AM
"Fell dead on his stoop" after a head-shot "coming down the second-floor stairs" isn't exactly DRT.
Lets see your DRT cites for other hand guns rounds. most people hit with a hand gun round live. What I've read says about 75-80 percent. DRTs usualy involve a CNS shot. DRTs from a shot to the body are rare with any pistol round.

THplanes
April 21, 2011, 01:05 AM
The question isn't really whether the Judge has ever killed anybody, or if it can. The question is what on Earth does it actually do better than any of the other guns on the market that are smaller, lighter, more accurate, and more versatile? What are the benefits that it offers that are enough to outweigh all the downsides it brings?
?
Good question. Why do people use .380 for HD when 9mm is around. Why would you use silly 9mm when the .40 is around, etc. .... why would you use a hand gun when a
12 ga. is much better. People have all sorts of reasons for things they do and logic is usualy not involved.

wrs840
April 21, 2011, 01:08 AM
OK. Nevermind. A Judge is absolutely swell. I own one. Everyone else should too. It's a fabulous Swiss-Army revolver that will do everything, just like the magazine ads say.

Gryffydd
April 21, 2011, 01:15 AM
Why do people use .380 for HD when 9mm is around.
Because its smaller size and lower pressure limit allow it to be chambered in MUCH smaller guns. The .380 has some real advantages over the 9mm. They don't really play well into Home Defense, but maybe they can only afford one gun?
Why would you use silly 9mm when the .40 is around
Higher capacity, lower recoil, lower cost without drastically inferior performance with modern ammunition.
why would you use a hand gun when a
12 ga. is much better
I don't think I even need to explain this one...

I can imagine reasons to support all of those choices you listed. I'm still trying to figure out the advantage that the Judge offers that would outweigh its downsides. I'm not a Judge-Hater though--If somebody can explain to me why it's a worthwhile* firearm I'd be happy to listen.

*I should say, I have heard ONE reason to get one so far: It's the "I have more money than I know what to do with and I like the idea of tossing clays up in the air and shooting them with a revolver for the fun of it" explanation. It's a toy for those who already own enough useful guns to cover any need that might arise.

TechBrute
April 21, 2011, 07:15 AM
SWAT magazine did a feature on the Judge. Predictably, it didn't perform well with either .410 or .45lc. The .45lc didn't group well, and the .410 patterned in a donut shape. Everyone says what a great snake gun it would be, but the author made a point to mention that at typical snake-killin' distance, the pattern wouldn't even hit the snake's head.

As far as it being a Taurus, I think that they make perfectly serviceable guns that you need to do your own QC on. They are not on par with S&W. My personal experience is with a Taurus M85 that I bought new in 1995.

oldfool
April 22, 2011, 09:11 AM
Nobody with any meaningful knowledge of 45 LC caliber revolvers would waste their money on da' Judge as a 45 only... it's the shotshell gimmick that sells 'em. Go ahead, show us a bunch of posts about why people looking for a quality 45 only revolver would or should pick da' Judge over some/any other flavor 45 only.

Most people who own 'em don't even bother to load 45s in 'em more than a very few times "just to see" after newly purchased; they buy 'em to put shotshells in 'em.

Despite all the desperate efforts put forth to "justify" the effectiveness of a few pellets of 000 in a shell size too small to accommodate more of 'em, the marketing success of da' Judge is solely watermelon dependent. Compounded, of course by the silly implication in the sales pitch that you don't need to aim a gun that fires shotshells, much less 410 shotshells.
(drift on over to the shotgun sub-forum here, and make that pitch for any 410 shotgun as a great choice for SD; let us know how that works out)

410 shotshell handgun notions (including 45/410 derringers) have been recycled so many times over the years, it's ridiculous. Nobody was clever enough to do watermelon commercials with 'em, that's all.. Taurus ought pay a royalty to watermelon farmers on every one they sell.

snakes.. who's kidding who ?
a garden hoe will get it done, any mid-caliber handgun shotshell will get it done
a "snakecharmer" single shot will get it done better, and carries just as easy on a riding lawnmower or farm tractor
unless, of course, you need that fast draw DA to defend yourself against the platoon of kamikaze rattlers hiding in the watermelon patch
in which case you could just buy some snakeshot rounds for any 45 caliber revolver, of course.. it's only the zombie class rattlers that require 000

toys are fun, be they paintballs or 22 rimfire gatling guns or da' Judge
nothing wrong with that
no need to pretend it is what it ain't

but if looking for "the next big thing in gun marketing", a paintball vs. watermelon commercial might just be a big seller, preferably a 50AE caliber paintgun ??
colorful if nothing else :rolleyes:

PabloJ
April 22, 2011, 09:15 AM
I've always been facinated by 'hold-out' guns chambered for .410 and am looking at the Judge pretty closely, specifically the 410TKR-3BMAG (3" .410, 3" barrel). $519 @ Cabela's at the moment.

Does anyone have one and if so what should I expect outside of it being a bit snappy when firing .410 loads?
When I warm up to straw hat, corncob pipe, and suspenders I will be sure to check one of these out. I doubt it will ever happen as I never cared for the Hee Haaaw show anyway.

oldfool
April 22, 2011, 09:28 AM
having said all that.. just to show a little love for our Judge-mental friends, you know
the perfect BUG for those days when that revolver don't hold quite enough for that snake attack in the melon patch

http://www.gunblast.com/Bond-Derringer.htm

you know need one, don't deny it :D

PabloJ
April 22, 2011, 09:53 AM
I much prefer snakes to rodents. I need good revolver but been toying with SIG 210 for a while now. I might just get one to see what all the raving is about and a pair or snake proof gaiters or pants of course.

daorhgih
April 22, 2011, 12:11 PM
... turns from fact into ad hominem dictus, and it's sad, because he is a good -- no: EXCELLENT! -- writer. I commend his facts, but deride his attacks. My reason for getting "Judged" is simply curiosity, plus my having oodles of .308 Enfield and .444 brass lying about. I can easily meet and beat any commercial shot-shell loads available now. That is my aim (no pun intended). Plus I have a T/C Encore .460 S&W that is crying out to be tested with all the "gimmiky" loads I can make. Last, it is unusual for a major cartridge designer and maker to jump on the band-wagon for just ANY "new" gun. PABLO is just a few years behind in the development of this weapon (plus, he hates it), as in the first iterations of Gaston G's "Perfection" gun proved-out with so many 1911-clones. All the above makers are still going strong, despite troll-like Snipe encountered along the way.

oldfool
April 22, 2011, 06:37 PM
parting shot...
some here perhaps really are Taurus bashers, and I know TOA folks understandably get real tired of that, but the excuses used in praise of da' Judge just don't hold up

"innovative", not hardly, anything but, no matter how trendy
I really don't get why people think nine shot rimfire revolvers and 45/410s are "who ever woulda' thunk of it" things, but some part of their theme song seems to be that versatility buzzword

ok, try this on, if you think this is Taurus bashing -

old model Taurus 6" nicely blued steel SA/DA revolver, model 66, holds six, not five, 38/357, classic k-frame styling, ergonomic
you can load a different cartridge in every chamber, if so inclined
38 wc, 38swc, 38sp, 38+p, 357 mag, and (drum roll)... snakeshot
want non-lethal, well you can't run 410 ga birdshot in it, but Glaser will sell you something to put in it, probably no pricier than boutique 410 shells
if snakes attack six at a time, you can kill 'em all

you can carry it on your hip, under your shoulder, in your car, on your riding mower, on your tractor, or lay it on your bedside nightstand with your TV remote
(want shorter and/or lighter, they make lots of similar with shorter barrels, lighter alloy frames in any brand flavor you want)
show me a Judge with that versatility

good sights, good SA trigger, very good DA trigger, good lockup, very accurate out to 25 yards and well beyond... minute of soda pop can at 100 yards if your hands & eyes are up to it
show me a Judge with that performance

power factor - you would pick like, wow, four 000 pellets over a 158 gr 357 JHP ??
you think if you cannot hit COM with 357 JHP, you can do it with four 000 pellets ?

cost ?
$300 bucks, used but not abused
less filling, tastes great
versatile, innovative, no gimmicks required, high recreational value, no watermelons required
out-buzzword that ;)

THplanes
April 22, 2011, 07:38 PM
Despite all the desperate efforts put forth to "justify" the effectiveness of a few pellets of 000 in a shell size too small to accommodate more of 'em, the marketing success of da' Judge is solely watermelon dependent. Compounded, of course by the silly implication in the sales pitch that you don't need to aim a gun that fires shotshells, much less 410 shotshells.
(drift on over to the shotgun sub-forum here, and make that pitch for any 410 shotgun as a great choice for SD; let us know how that works out)

:
You're right, the Fed .410 000 buck handgun load is a joke.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4550011&postcount=37

Try going over to the shotgun forum and making a pitch that any handgun is a great choice for SD. I've never seen anyone touting it as a better dedicated .45 colt than any of regular .45 colt guns out there.

I would like to make something clear here. I'm not advocating the judge as a good SD gun, especialy for HD. It doesn't hold enough rounds for me. That said, there will be those that use it for SD. I would like for them to make an informed decision as to what ammo to use. You can't just put any .410 round in and think you have the hamer of Thor. In .410 the Fed 000 handgun load is the only good choice. It patterns well and has very good penetration. It is range resticted to 12 to maybe 15 yards. In that resticted range I'd take the round over most any traditional handgun round.

People that think they can use bird shot to blind an attacker really need to set up a target at 5 - 7 yards with a couple of eyes draw in. You may be sadly disapointed. The judge tends to shoot a doughnut pattern, shot density is lower at the aim point and denser at 5+ inchs out. Not to metion that once you move outside area of the iris an eye is much tougher than you might think.

Even picking a .45 colt HP load that will function is not a simple problem the velocity is so low they just don't expand reliably. Win ST expands sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes the you get a core - jacket seperation.
The GD will not expand at such a low velocity.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-464846.html

The Win PDX1, I've only seen one test and it didn't expand. At this point I think the BB heavy standard presure 255 soft cast SWCHP with a gas check is about the only good choice. If similar bullets work well out of snub nose .38 spl they should work out of the judge.

Hunt480
April 22, 2011, 08:30 PM
parting shot...
some here perhaps really are Taurus bashers, and I know TOA folks understandably get real tired of that, but the excuses used in praise of da' Judge just don't hold up...egregious quoting removed

They aint nothing wrong with a Taurus Judge. It is versatile very useful gun. I own Smiths, Rugers, Colts, but this is the gun I trash around the farm, woods,camping,hiking and at times its the only gun in my vehicle. And so far I have killed a few snakes with some 6 shots but I always keep three 45 silvertips in the chamber in case any Old Fool comes along. I can hit with all my 45's including this nice light wieght Judge...

THplanes
April 22, 2011, 08:34 PM
having said all that.. just to show a little love for our Judge-mental friends, you know
the perfect BUG for those days when that revolver don't hold quite enough for that snake attack in the melon patch

http://www.gunblast.com/Bond-Derringer.htm

you know need one, don't deny it :D
Ya, I know I need one. My brother and I always head off gunshows together. When ever I pick one of them up, my brother just rolls his eyes and we move on. Kind of funny because getting a judge was his idea.

bayhawk2
April 22, 2011, 08:42 PM
Why is the Taurus Judge worthwhile?
Because I own one.
Because I have shot one.
Because I have seen the damage it can do.
Because I know first hand with the "right ammo" it "is"
all it says it is.It has to be the right ammo.
The right rounds make it awesome.
I recommend the Taurus Judge to anyone
wanting a "serious" all-around pistol.This from one that can give a first hand review.
I totally disregard any "hearsay" reviews as they
are just that.Hearsay.
I also take with a grain of salt the so called
internet experts that seem to know everything.
Never held a Taurus Judge in their key typing fingers
but seem to know "everything" there is about them.

SASS50566
April 22, 2011, 09:34 PM
I measured the cylinder throats on a Judge we had in the gun store I work at. It measured .458" and for a 45 Colt I like the throat at .4525". An oversize throat does not help with accuracy. The Judge is not supposed to be a target gun though. It was a comfortable enough gun to shoot but it is not something I would spend money on. I was reading that Smith & Wesson just introduced a .410 revolver at the Shot Show.

jdmb03
April 27, 2011, 10:30 PM
I have a Public Defender model and really like it. I load it with Federal 000 buckshot. It's a nice tool to have when I go hiking and fishing.

Gryffydd
April 29, 2011, 01:07 AM
It's a nice tool to have when I go hiking and fishing.
The real question though is how is it a better tool than the cheaper, smaller, more accurate, more powerful alternatives? What made you choose it over other options?

Leaky Waders
April 29, 2011, 02:49 AM
Let me preface this by saying I don't own a Judge...but I do indeed like them. For the following reasons:

1) They make 45 Long Colt a common round again - at least in the shooters vocabulary. People don't look at the cartridge as an obsolete cowboy gaming round anymore.

2) Taurus has influenced the market...S&W is trying to catch up. It will be interesting to see who stays on top of sales with this particular firearm.

3) I imagine the platform will be very versatile for hiking etc. Load 45 LC for self defense against two-legged critters and load your 410 hulls when you need a rabbit or squirrel in the pot.

4) They would be good on the farm or farmed field for the same reason...rat wacker and hog walloper all in the same package depending on load. Compact enough to keep on the green and yellow deer with a box of shells and hulls alongside.

5) A fun plinker. Let's face it...hitting cans is fun. Missing them is well kind of embarassing. Wacking some pre-shaken mountain dew with some #6 shot from a handgun makes for good fun.

So basically, when one gets a judge they get the versatility of a proven manstopper in 45 LC and the shortrange versatility of a 410 shell as a game getter.

I laud taurus on their success and bold entrepreneur spirit - releasing a novel firearm that is doing well even during these tuff economic times.

L.W.

Guillermo
April 29, 2011, 10:26 AM
if I wanted a blunderbuss I would get something vintage

to me, only accurate guns are interesting to shoot

TheGrimReaper
April 29, 2011, 11:56 AM
A lot of folks hate the Judge. I my self love mine and want to pick up another one. A Polymer defender.

PcolaDawg
April 29, 2011, 03:44 PM
A lot of folks hate the Judge. I my self love mine and want to pick up another one. A Polymer defender.
I'm actually starting to lust after the Smith & Wesson Governor. That sucker looks sweet and has six cylinders. My kids are well aware of my lust for the Governor and are already asking me what I plan to do with the Judge if I pick up a Governor. :rolleyes:

jdmb03
April 29, 2011, 08:19 PM
The real question though is how is it a better tool than the cheaper, smaller, more accurate, more powerful alternatives? What made you choose it over other options?

Which guns would you consider cheaper, smaller, more acurate and powerful?

The Judge cost around $450. The defender model is small and it will shoot the powerful .45LC. I've seen video of the Judge shooting Federal 000 buckshot. The shooter was 5 and 10 yards away from a 2x4 wall and he was blasting quarter size holes through it.

trav
April 30, 2011, 11:17 AM
having said all that.. just to show a little love for our Judge-mental friends, you know
the perfect BUG for those days when that revolver don't hold quite enough for that snake attack in the melon patch

http://www.gunblast.com/Bond-Derringer.htm

you know need one, don't deny it

Ah man.... I didnt need one until now... crap!

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