Trigger too light


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gamestalker
April 18, 2011, 03:32 PM
I had a quality trigger job done on one of my S&W carry guns, and now I'm regretting it. At the range it's very nice, but because it is so light and has zero drift it isn't practicle for S.D.. I thought it would be the way to go until after shooting it. If I touch it at all it drops, if I tap it on the table it drops. So I'm looking at DA only for S.D. situations as it seems. I don't know what the weight is, but I'm guessing it's probably 8 onces or so.
I took the gun to him to have the timing hand spring replaced and he asked me if I would like a trigger job. I thought sure, that would be nice since you already have it here.

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Jim Watson
April 18, 2011, 03:35 PM
In the second place, I have no thoughts of needing SA in a DA revolver except for testing ammunition.

In the first place, he got it way too light even for that. Probably shortened or rounded the sear engagement. NOT a "quality" trigger job. Certainly not if it drops the hammer with a rap against the table.

Looks like a visit to S&W for a new hammer and trigger.

Prosser
April 18, 2011, 03:36 PM
The tap on the table is too far. Take it back, and have him stiffen it up a bit.

2-3 pounds is near ideal, but, the tap on the table is WAY to much.

rcmodel
April 18, 2011, 03:51 PM
A DA trigger job should have little or no effect on the SA trigger pull weight.
In no case should SA pull ever be less then 2 1/2 pounds on any S&W revolver.
And certainly in no case should it fire if bumped against a table while cocked

Very likely he ruined the hammer bevel or sear angle by stoning something he shouldn't have.

New parts are in order now, as those are probably not fixable.
I agree you should send it to S&W now for a safe repair job.

Your "gunsmith" sure isn't the guy to take it back too again!

rc

robctwo
April 19, 2011, 01:00 AM
I've been doing a bit of home smithing for the past year. Was looking at my Kuhnhausen S&W manual just the other day. Interesting information on the angle of the sear controlling how heavy the S/A trigger pull is. I'm not experienced enough to fool around with that, but I probably will some day in the future.

I have a number of S&Ws that have very light S/A triggers. Nothing a bump will set off. We have a rule at our range. Do not touch your trigger until your sights are on the target. If following that rule with my guns, there is no chance of a problem.

I don't envision a need for S/A self defense unless I'm out in the woods and need to shoot something that is really a threat and I don't want to engage up close. 50 yards and in at that.

Clay birds on a dirt bank at 40 yards is another matter, and that's where my light triggers shine.

StrawHat
April 19, 2011, 06:49 AM
I prefer the trigger weight to be more than the loaded revolver. As long as it is crisp, even 4 pounds is good.

Sam1911
April 19, 2011, 08:26 AM
Agree with the others. S/A has almost no conceivable place in realistic self-defense. Just forget about that.

Second, any S/A lockwork that has been tinkered with until a bump on the table will cause the hammer to fall is probably ruined. Let S&W fix it, or some other known competent gunsmith. Don't go back to that guy, except to try to make him pay for the parts he butchered.

madcratebuilder
April 19, 2011, 08:41 AM
if I tap it on the table it drops.

:what:

The person that did this so called trigger job put a negative angle on the hammer/sear. This is a dangerous condition that needs to be addressed.

Drail
April 19, 2011, 11:13 AM
While the gun is probably still useable in DA only for SD use we don't know what else this "smith" did. If he so much as touched the SA notch on the hammer then the hammer will have to be replaced. You cannot stone a S&W hammer, the case hardening is only a couple thousandths of an inch thick and once you break through that the steel under it is too soft to hold the angle. All adjustments are done to the sear only. If it were mine I would replace the hammer and trigger and hold the "smith's" feet to the fire for reimbursement. The majority of S&W revolver's SA pull weight out of the box is so light (2.5 lbs.) it should never need to be messed with.

Old Fuff
April 19, 2011, 12:08 PM
You have another problem here.

If the revolver is used in a defensive shooting, how do you PROVE that you fired using the double-action mode only? Someone in authority may conclude that some or all of the shots were fired unintentionally because of the "hair trigger," and therefore without justification.

I would suggest that you do one of two things. Either return the revolver to S&W or a competent gunsmith to have the single-action trigger pull restored to standard, or bob the hammer spur and have the hammer modified to double-action only (DAO). This was commonly done by many larger police departments and federal agencies.

Currently it it not safe to use for any purpose.

Remo223
April 19, 2011, 12:31 PM
There is an easy fix to your revolver that no one here is mentioning. That is to completely eliminate the SA capability of the revolver. You could probably even do it yourself. grind away the part that allows the hammer to lock back. tada, double action only.

JohnBT
April 19, 2011, 01:47 PM
"In no case should SA pull ever be less then 2 1/2 pounds on any S&W revolver."

That reminds me of the 649 .357 I have that my father bought new. The SA pull was a true no-creep, you barely touch it and it fires trigger. I like light trigger pulls and own a number of guns with light SA pulls, but this one was scary.

Then I bought a Lyman digital gauge. Guess what, it was exactly 2.5#. It still feels a lot lighter than my old Single-Six with the 2# factory trigger. I guess my finger isn't all that educated. :)

Both are bump proof though.

John

X-Rap
April 19, 2011, 03:24 PM
If the revolver is used in a defensive shooting, how do you PROVE that you fired using the double-action mode only? Someone in authority may conclude that some or all of the shots were fired unintentionally because of the "hair trigger," and therefore without justification.



Count me in as a vote for DA only in a EDC gun and even a knock around woods gun needs to have a good solid trigger that won't go off with a bump.

jad0110
April 19, 2011, 08:46 PM
Fuff beat me to it. But in addition to that, as this guy completely butchered the sear engagement angle, I wouldn't trust the gun to function reliably in DA either. I think your best bet may be to send it in to S&W, and have them replace any parts not in spec - likely the hammer and possibly also the trigger itself.

This obviously won't be covered by the warranty, but if you are polite and admit what occured they may well cut you a bit of a break on the cost.

That reminds me of the 649 .357 I have that my father bought new. The SA pull was a true no-creep, you barely touch it and it fires trigger. I like light trigger pulls and own a number of guns with light SA pulls, but this one was scary.

Then I bought a Lyman digital gauge. Guess what, it was exactly 2.5#. It still feels a lot lighter than my old Single-Six with the 2# factory trigger. I guess my finger isn't all that educated.

A sure sign that your 649 has a cleaner SA pull (smoother, crisper release, less overtravel). All things being equal, a smooth action will feel lighter than a rough one.

murf
April 19, 2011, 10:13 PM
very bad pistol smith. first check after the trigger job is the bump test. you should be able to smack that pistol with a 2x4 and not have the cocked hammer let go. if he is a member of a pistolsmith guild or association, you may want to complain. there is no excuse for this. please do not fire the gun until fixed by s&w or a competent smith. no telling what else is screwed up.


murf

GLOOB
April 20, 2011, 04:50 AM
A sure sign that your 649 has a cleaner SA pull (smoother, crisper release, less overtravel).

Ok. I have only 1 Smith revolver. It's a 686-1. The SA trigger is phenomenal. 2 1/2 lbs sounds about right. There's no takeup, no creep, and almost no movement to break it. Overtravel!? It's negative! I mean, there's overtravel if you yank it. But if you squeeze it off, the trigger moves forward when it breaks. I know this sounds like magic. Maybe it is. Is this not typical for a S&W? I figured they were all like this.

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