.410 ammo selection... and full choke?


April 19, 2011, 07:55 PM
I have a question, but first here is the back-story:

My wife and I recently got our tax return, and we decided it was time for her to get a shotgun of her own (she doesn't like my Remington 870 20ga). We went down to the local gun shop and ordered a Mossberg 500 youth model in .410, with wood stock and fixed full choke.

It should arrive sometime in the next few days. We're looking forward to trying it. I also ordered some ammo to go with the gun, and this leads to my question(s).

Intended use for this will be for plinking at pop-cans and what-not, and possibly home defense. With HD in mind, I decided to order some of these:


"Centurion 2.5 inch shells, Loaded with three (3) 0.400" lead balls, a perfectly matched plastic wad and a low recoil powder"

Sounded great at the time, only $9.00 per box of 25 rounds, low recoil, and big enough shot to actually have a effect on an intruder. But now that I think about it more. will a .40 caliber ball be safe to shoot in a .410 shotgun with a full choke? I believe that this is larger than 000 buck?

I have 2 other related questions:

#1: Does anyone sell a replacement barrel for this shotgun with a cylinder bore /no choke?

#2: I see alot of shells designed for the Tarus Judge. Will these be safe and/or effective in a full sized shotgun? In particular I am curious about these:


4 pellets of 000 buck, and judging by the picture they look copper plated. I hear that copper plate is a plus in .410 because plain lead buckshot will "flatten" when fired (due to shot being stacked one atop another).

Will this work in a mossberg 500?

Thanks in advance

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T Slothrop
April 19, 2011, 08:09 PM
Personally I prefer these (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=440699) or these (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=170759) in my Mossberg .410 for home defense simply because of the greater number of pellets. I make no apologies for using a .410 because a) it is the only shotgun my Significant Other will practice with and b) due to some physical problems of my own 12 and 20 gauge recoil is starting to hurt too much.

I sure wouldn't stand in front of a .410 loaded with buckshot or slugs.

April 19, 2011, 08:49 PM
You have to check out these.
D. Duplexs They offer a 2 1/2" DUPO7 that has a 110gr slug moveing at 167ofps and will expand to 1 inch then frags in to 7 peices to cut diffent wound channels.

For larger bore shooting guns they have 3 different loads that react differently to tissue when hit. Interesting loads.

April 19, 2011, 09:12 PM
You are right to question the .400 ball plus wad in the full choke, although I see no warning in the ad at the Midway site. That would be a tight squeeze.

I load a similar load using three .380 balls that I cast and shoot in my single barrel Pardner with no plastic wad, but I have cut the choke out by shortening the barrel. I chronographed the load at 1180FPS and it will keep all 3 balls within 12" at 50yds.

If you're going to shoot a lot, a Mec reloader will pay for itself in a short time and allow a lot more shooting fun. They are very simple to use.


April 19, 2011, 09:30 PM
If you can't find a barrel, take it to a gunsmith and have them ream the choke out to either Cyl. or Skeet. This is what I had done to my O/U that was Mod. Full when I bought it.

Short of a special purpose 410, the only listings I see for Mossberg barrels is either Mod. or Full on their guns. They don't even list a 410 aftermarket / replacement barrel. You could try contacting them and see if they have an off list replacement barrel that you could buy.

I could never understand why the makers insist on full choke on a 410. They seem to be trying to make a 50 yard gun out of a 25 yard gun.

April 20, 2011, 05:31 PM
I could never understand why the makers insist on full choke on a 410. They seem to be trying to make a 50 yard gun out of a 25 yard gun. To keep the few pellets you have working for you closer together for better pattern density. It's also my prefered choke in a .410 and makes it a sevicable 25-35 yard Dove gun. As to the OP's question most .410's that I have owned (4) or crossed trails with, have been full choked. I wouldn't think a responsible ammo manufacturer would sell a dangerous loading without a truckload of warnings. Besides lead is soft and will swage through a choke. It may not pattern worth a hoot but I doubt it to be dangerous.

April 20, 2011, 05:43 PM
And no, they won't flatten out, one on top of the other. The #4 buck will be a very good shot shell also! :evil:

April 26, 2011, 03:39 PM
Tested the .400 cal shot shells by cutting one open and measuring the shot. The pellet was actually closer to .39 cal, a good sign.

I tried it in a .410 barrel with a modified choke, and it rolled right past the choke without getting stuck. Also a good sign.

I'm picking up the Mossberg tonight, will test them in it's barrel and see what happens...

April 27, 2011, 12:43 PM
Picked up the shotgun last night, and have some good news, and some bad news.

The good news: those .40 caliber pellets should be just fine in this gun. Turns out that it's actually a modified choke, not a full. Looking forward to testing them, will post the results here.

The bad news: The youth size is actually a little too small for my wife. We thought it would be perfect since the standard size was too big. Wish there were a "medium" option LOL. Does anyone know if you can remove the youth stock (model 505) and add a standard size stock (model 500)? Or are they not compatable?

I was thinking that If I could put the larger size stock on the smaller gun, it might be just right. And if need be, I could probably just take a saw and cut an inch off of the full sized stock to get that "medium" size I'm looking for...

April 27, 2011, 02:08 PM
If the stock isn't WAY short can you just add a slip-on pad over the original? That'd give you an additional inch of pull.

April 28, 2011, 06:32 AM
Does your 505 have a 12" LOP stock? If so, you need the model 500 Bantaam stock which is 13". You can order a synthetic one directly from Mossberg for a little over $50.

April 28, 2011, 02:43 PM
Fear not ! Buy the Centurians and blast Away. Centurian realy puts out some decent ammo. I have tried , and use , their 12ga buck and ball ammo and it performs as advertized and then some. Absolutely no problems.

May 2, 2011, 04:01 PM
Yes, I think it's the model 57120 listed here:


So it is a 12 inch LOP.

I'd like the wood stock though, to match the forend. Do you happen to know if they make a 13 or 14 inch LOP wood stock that would fit this shotgun?

Thanks again.

May 3, 2011, 08:36 AM
Things to know/remember about the .410:

1. The chokes are not regulated/tested at 40yds like the larger shotguns. They are set/tested for 25yds. Hence a .410 full choke isn't as tight as a larger shotguns choke. Most get the full choke as it maximizes the effectiveness of the small shot load. The only place where you might want a more open choke is shooting skeet.

2. The steel in the barrel is much harder than the lead shot. It will "squeeze" the shot down if the choke is too tight. However, as you observed, the shot is actually slightly smaller than advertised. No problem, however. I've actually loaded my own .410 "solids" or slugs by loading .40S&W cast bullet (.401") and got decent performance at ~50'.

BTW: The shot dosen't "flatten out" from the firing. If that was the case, all shotguns would "flatten" the shot and you'd never get a decent pattern...... It's amazing at the "nonsense" that exists about ammunition.... Yes, some with have "flat spots" on the pellets from barrel contact, but thats not as significant as it's been made out to be. Remember, even cast balls for muzzle loaders have a flat-spot from the sprue cut off. I've shot 1-hole groups with a muzzle loader at 50yds using cast round balls. They even had grooves cut on the side by the rifleing, too !!!! Imagine that! they were even egg shaped by being 'squoze' through the rifleing.......

3. The .410 is the most expensive shotshell size to buy, but the cheapest to reload. It is also very, very easy to reload for.

I disregarded the .410 for many years. I finally purchased one of the Yildiz O/U shotguns as sold by Academy Sports in spring of '10. It is now my favorite shotgun, and I shoot it almost to the exclusion of all my other shotguns. I find it to be effective at reasonable ranges with appropriate ammo. It is far, far more effective on the skeet range than I imagined. The fit/finish and features on this shotgun are far better than the ~500.00 price tag would lead you to believe. A friend who has 3 Browning Citori .410's saw/handled mine and went and bought himself a Yildiz. I asked why? He said he didn't like leaving his Brownings by the back door. He said the Yildiz is too good to have to leave his Browning out of the safe..........

A deer or turkey gun it isn't. But for garden pests or small game hunting, I consider it the best thing I've ever used......Almost non-existant recoil, mild muzzle blast, and effective beyond imagination for a former 12/20ga

Heck, I'm even loading .45Colt "shot" loads and using them to irradicate the Carpenter bee's around the house...... 5gr of Bullseye and cardboard wads punched with my Lee bullet sizer dies and about 0.4oz of #9 bird shot covered by a crimped over cardboard wad...... I've taken over 50 bumble bees this spring! Think "C-B caps" for a shotgun.......

May 3, 2011, 11:44 AM

I was concerned about flattening of pellets based on this:


Looking at the pictures, those pellets are FLAT. Not just flat on one side. They look like watch batteries.

Think "C-B caps" for a shotgun.......

Don't you mean C-Bee caps? LOL

I've never thought about using a firearm on an insect, but it sounds like fun. I did however kill a very large spider once with a BB gun...

May 3, 2011, 01:16 PM
Before you sour on the 12" stock for the Lady: +1 on the slip on pad for field workm you are gonna need a size small or extra small BTW. For HD work. especially inside (as in HOME defense) she/you will be FAR better off with that 12" LOP ! You aren't shooting birds here where the 14" pull might be better. You are turning corners and bringing the gun up to eye LEVEL from a low ready and that 12" pull is about right for that even for 6 footers!

September 20, 2011, 05:49 PM
Ok finally have an update, sorry for the long wait.

Took the Model 505 out and test it and the ammo a few weeks back. Had some issues :(

We tried 3 different brands of shell (Remington, Winchester, and Centurian), and all had multiple failures to feed and extract. Most common problem was that upon "pumping", instead of the round going into the chamber, it would drop out the bottom of the action and land on the ground.

When we did get a round to actually chamber, it would fire OK, but then the shell wouldn't easily extract. It took a lot of muscle to work the action, and then half the time the empty shell would stay in the chamber.

My wife and I both enjoyed shooting it though, it was fun and more accurate than we expected (think having the 2nd bead sight helps). Just wish it was more reliable.

Is this a common issue with the 505? Or are we just doing something wrong? I'm new to Mossberg shotguns (all previous shotgun experiance has been with either Remginton 870s or NEF single shots).

T Bran
September 20, 2011, 06:14 PM
David im really surprised that you are having problems but I doubt the problem is you they are not that different than an 870 as far as basic functions go. I was about to pick one up at wallyworld to save wear and tear on my 410 sxs. Hope that you keep us posted on your progress I think that your gun might have something sticking. May be a good idea to tear it down clean and oil. You should be able to function test for the feed issue with out going to the range but be very careful when testing a malfunction with live ammo. + 1 on the reloading saves me a bundle and I shoot more = win-win.
Good Luck

September 20, 2011, 06:23 PM
T Bran,

Thats what I thought too. Maybe just need to take it apart and give it a good cleaning / oiling?

I'm considering buying some snap-caps for .410 to test in it. Don't feel good about doing this in my house with the live ammo.

I'm hoping I can figure this out, like I said before we did enjoy shooting it and if we can get it running 100% I can see this shotgun going with us to the range frequently.

Heck, our son might enjoy it in a few years (he's only 17 months old at the moment).

September 20, 2011, 06:45 PM
D. Duplexs They offer a 2 1/2" DUPO7 that has a 110gr slug moveing at 167ofps and will expand to 1 inch then frags in to 7 peices to cut diffent wound channels.

I read the ATF just nixed their importation. Apparently, for reasons that make no sense to anyone with a few brain cells to rub together, they're being classified as armor piercing HG ammo.

September 20, 2011, 08:18 PM
I have a couple of 12s but only like to shoot one of them ( the MKA 1919 ) versus the Mossberg 88 which I hate due to recoil with magnum slugs or 00.

Never thought much about a 410; it was always a kids gun or young ladies gun where I grew up or maybe just not macho enough? I always liked a 16 gage best but that was just me.

Well I came accross a Saiga 410 at a good price and someone had said the 410 slug was the same as a 357 (??) so I loaded her up with goldenbear slugs. I have not had that much fun with a shotgun, ever. It never failed to feed or fire and the slugs have proven more accurate than I would have believed possible. I have shot only 35 rounds with this weapon because it is relatively new and I have been doing other things lately but I do want to take it back out and sight it in.

If I remember it was shooting a little over 4 or 5 MOA at 50 yards with all shots 5 inches high and about 6" right when I tried it out on a target (right after I got it) but the groups were consistant. Been meaning to adjust the sights but have not had the time or messed with the shotgun in a couple of months.

I looked at the 00 shot in 410 but 3 or 5 BBs did not do as much for me as the slug in the same caliber. If someone wants or needs a fun hard hitting low recoil weapons then they could do much worse than the 410 IMO.

P.S. I think it was 50 yards or close to it?

September 21, 2011, 02:19 PM
I haven't given slugs much consideration. Figured that for the HD role that the buckshot loads would work better? Maybe be less likely to punch through walls and end up hitting the neighbors house?

Is there any data regarding the effectiveness of buckshot vs slugs for defense purposes?

Slugs could be interesting for the range/plinking if nothing else. Do you guys have any recomendations? Will one brand/type work better than another in a shotgun that has a choke?

September 21, 2011, 03:04 PM
I read the ATF just nixed their importation. Apparently, for reasons that make no sense to anyone with a few brain cells to rub together, they're being classified as armor piercing HG ammo.
WHAT?? DARN IT!!! (being nicey-nicey) I want those but have been waiting for the price to drop. Just one more reason to HATE the BATFE!!

September 21, 2011, 03:26 PM
I recently started a very similar thread, I have a Mossberg 500E .410 pump. I went to Wally World and looked at their selection, I noticed that the .410 slugs were lighter as far as how much lead is being fired. I'll stick to either the 000 buckshot or the 3" #4 shot, which really pack a punch.

I haven't tried shooting the #000 2.5" shells I bought yet so I can't comment on the FTF FTE issues, but with all other ammo I have tried I have had zero issues.

September 22, 2011, 08:47 AM
WHAT?? DARN IT!!! (being nicey-nicey) I want those but have been waiting for the price to drop. Just one more reason to HATE the BATFE!!

I know. I was interested in trying them as well. I've fired some of the 12 ga versions into gel blocks and the results are impressive.

September 22, 2011, 09:21 AM
Have you shot it at something 20 feet away ? It don`t make any difference if it`s Slugs or #8`s you are going to get (A) hole. Take a milk jug fill it with water back up 3 steps & shoot it, that is basically in home defense how far you are going to be from a threat. I don`t care what shell you use weather it has 1 projectile or hundreds you are going to get (one) hole.

September 22, 2011, 09:41 AM
I haven't given slugs much consideration. Figured that for the HD role that the buckshot loads would work better? Maybe be less likely to punch through walls and end up hitting the neighbors house?

Is there any data regarding the effectiveness of buckshot vs slugs for defense purposes?

Slugs could be interesting for the range/plinking if nothing else. Do you guys have any recomendations? Will one brand/type work better than another in a shotgun that has a choke?
I've done much reading on the .410 shotgun for home defense and although I am no expert, I've concluded to my satisfaction that if one is interested in a light, low recoil weapon that still has shotgun-level wounding/stopping potential, the .410 is a good choice and underrated platform.

I did just as much reading on ammunition choice. These are the options as I see them:


- "Premium Personal Defense" 2 1/2", 000 Buck, 4 pellets, 850 fps (in a handgun)
- "Premium Personal Defense" 3", 000 Buck, 5 pellets, 775 fps (in a handgun)
- "Premium Personal Defense" , 3", 4 Buck, 9 pellets, 950 fps (in a handgun)


- "HD Ultimate Home Defense" 2 1/2", 00 Buck, 4 pellets, 1300 fps


- "Supreme Elite PDX1" 2 1/2", 3 .40cal discs/12 BBs
- "Super-X" 2 1/2", 000 Buck, 3 pellets, 1300 fps
- "Super-X", 3", 000 Buck, 5 pellets, 1145 fps

Fortunately, with the popularity of the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor-type handguns, defensive .410 shells have become more available and less expensive.

I like Federal's PPD in a 2 1/2"; it gets me the heavier hitting 000 Buck, and an extra round in the magazine.

David4516: your FTF/FTEs indeed might be cured by a good field strip and clean; it might also be cured by switching to 2 1/2" shells. Although I have not experienced this myself, it's the opinion of some that the .410 bore shotguns don't feed 3" shells as reliably as they do 2 1/2". YMMV.

As for data on slugs vs. buckshot in a .410, here's some from an excellent site:


Also, a site that tests .410 defensive ammo for handguns, but includes a shotgun for comparison's sake:


September 22, 2011, 10:58 AM
Well I've put together a 500 pumpgun with the barrel from a Mossberg cruiser (Well documented on Gun rights media as well as other forums)

The best load I've found is the Federal 2-1/2 inch '000' load it has four copper washed pellets and works very well,the patterns are very tight at close range (as it should) and stays together at longer distances.

(and if you want to later on you could have the full choke barrel cut down to 18.5 and add a buttstock to the 50455 model,something I'm going to do to the full choke barrel I have on hand)

Just make sure the mag tubes are the same length,because I've noticed that not all Mossberg .410's have the same capacity mag tubes (My wood stocked gun is the 50104 it matches up perfectly with the 50455)

as far as FTF's take it down clean it and keep working the action to get it smoothed up.

Mine had a few hickups at first with the 2-1/2 inch 3-inch stuff just keep working with it and it will smooth up.

September 22, 2011, 11:05 AM

September 22, 2011, 11:10 AM
Check out the vid....


September 22, 2011, 11:59 AM
Well I got a couple of Snap Caps and tested them out last night...

Still the same issue. Here's what happens:

1: Load 2 in the mag
2: Cycle action/chamber round
3: Pull trigger
4: Cycle action to eject shell #1 and chamber shell #2
5: :eek: Oops, shell #1 ejects, but so does shell #2!

Basically I have a single shot pump action.

I think the problem is the spring loaded "stopper" thingy (have no idea what the proper term for it is) that keeps the shells in the tube. I've noticed that sometimes after step 2 above, the second shell (which I think should still be fully inserted in the mag tube at this point?) sticks out a little, past the "stopper".

This happens very frequently, probably more than half the time?

I'm wondering if I should call Mossberg? This can't be normal...

Also, all the shells I've tried thus far are the 2 and 1/2 inchers. Should I try 3 inch shells?

Thanks again for all your ideas/advice. I really do appricate it.

September 22, 2011, 12:14 PM
Ok, did a little more digging, and found this:


Looks like I'm not the only one to have this kind of problems with a Mossberg.

If I'm understanding correctly, I can just "bend" the stopper and it will fix the problem? Sounds simple enough, will attempt this tonight and report back.

I've got no idea how to take a Mossberg apart... this should be a good learning experiance...

September 22, 2011, 12:20 PM
No do not bend anything, try it with a heavier round !

September 22, 2011, 12:24 PM
Or make sure the shell is fully inserted into the mag tube,what would be the most likely culprit is the shell rim is catching on the front of the elevator and when you work the action the elevator is throwing it clear as the elevator goes down.

Sometimes the shell will seem like it's fully inside the tube but isn't.

push the shell in until it clicks.

if you're still having problems with it the shell stop might not be working properly.

Did you buy it new or used?

Another thing you might want to try is to take the plug out (too much spring pressure could be the cause of it as well ) just load up a few snap caps with the barrel removed and the wooden dowel should pop up from the front of the mag tube (unless you plan on using the little shotgun for hunting)

September 22, 2011, 01:03 PM

They don't make rounds much heavier than what I've been trying already (Buckshot).


I bought the gun new. Took it back to the local dealer where I bought it, they said the same thing you did (make sure the shell is fully inserted into the mag). They weren't willing to test it for me in the store, as they only had live ammo (this was a while back, before I had the snap caps). Can't blame them for that.

They told me my options were to either figure it out myself, or call Mossberg.

I've been extra carfule to make sure that the shells are fully inserted into the tube. This has always been a habit of mine (I'm used to tube mags, been shooting lever action rifles since I was a kid). So I'm confident that this is not the problem.

Regarding the wooden dowel, I've already removed it, this didn't seem to make any difference.

September 22, 2011, 01:08 PM
Just turn the gun around where you can watch the shell rim it might be getting caught on the front of the elevator,the elevator will hold it in place until you work the action,when the action is worked and the shell isn't in all the way the elevator will throw the shell clear (I've done it a few times myself,it's really just a training issue).

September 22, 2011, 01:18 PM
I'll post a few pics to show you what I'm talking about.

September 22, 2011, 01:22 PM
Here is an example of the shell's rim being caught on the elevator

same thing but from a different angle notice that the rim is infront of the shell stop but held in place by the elevator.


Here it is properly loaded into the mag tube with the shell stop infront of the rim.

Like I said before it's an easy thing to do by mistake when loading the ammo into the mag tube if the shooter is in a hurry,I hope this helps.

September 22, 2011, 02:07 PM
Here are the patterns from the .410 with 18.5 inch cylinder bore barrel at 15-20 feet using the federal 2-1/2 inch judge loading.

Target #1 : 6 shots 4-pellets per shell.


Target#2: 3 shots same Federal '000' loading


What I noticed early on with the full choked barrel is that the pattern would spread out more at the same distance as mentioned above and with less consistentcy

As you can see from the patterns shown in the pictures they are pretty much on top of eachother with some just showing a single ragged hole from where load shot cup and all hammered through.

T Bran
September 22, 2011, 02:30 PM
I think ive got it figured out here but I need you to do a test for me. Load 4 shells the first will chamber when you eject it the first and second will both eject press the slide release the third will chamber when you eject does the fourth also eject like the second did? If so the shell stop is returning to slowly to catch the next shell in line meaning that it has a bur on it or some machining debris jamming it up. It may even be out of spec and need a little polishing. If after a good clean and inspect it doesnt function normally send it back to Mossberg hope this helps.

September 22, 2011, 03:34 PM
And here is what you should expect to see when using a full choked .410 with '000' pellets.

The following targets were shot once each with the 4-pellet '000' load at the same distance (15-20 feet) as the above pictures.

Target #1: 1-shot 4-pellet load


Target #2: 1-shot 4-pellet load.


September 26, 2011, 12:13 AM
If I'm doing this right, I should have 2 attached images of what's happening.

The first one is after loading 2 shells. I believe that they're loaded correctly (fully in the tube).

The Second photo is after the action has been cycled once. The first shell is in the chamber, the second still in the tube. But it doesn't look like it's fully in the tube,like it's sticking out a little. If I pump at this point, the "empty" snap cap will eject out the port on the side of the action, and the "live" snap cap will eject out the bottom of the action simultaneously.


Should I buy a new shell stopper? Looks like they're $16.00

Or should I call Mossberg at this point?



This is the correct part, right? It says model 500 but will it work with a model 505?

September 26, 2011, 01:08 AM
The first one is not fully in the tube & if what I am seeing is right them are snap caps & the rim`s are wore out, no wonder they won`t stay in the tube ! Try using some real rounds.

September 26, 2011, 01:36 AM

If you will notice you do not see any shell out side the tube !

September 26, 2011, 11:19 AM

You're right, the snap caps are getting worn, and I'm not too happy about that, considering that they're just a few days old. I thought that they'd be more durable, but after cycling through the gun just a few times, they're already all chewed up.

Regarding the shells being all the way in the tube, I pushed them in so far that half my finger went in there too. I am 100% certain that I'm doing this right.

This experiance has me thinking that my next pump is going to be another Remington 870... I know some folks don't like them, but I've NEVER and an issue with an 870. My first Mossberg however, is non-functional right out of the box...

September 26, 2011, 12:44 PM
You'll run into a lemon from any maker though rare,it does happen.

The Mossbergs that I own work perfectly,I know that many of the Remingtons work perfectly.

Send it back to Mossberg and they should make things right.

September 26, 2011, 01:16 PM
If you are sure about everything you have done (Take it Back) !!!!!!!!!!!!!

January 11, 2012, 08:27 PM
Did you send the shotgun back to Mossberg or were you able to fix yourself?

January 11, 2012, 10:59 PM
Haven't shipped it back yet. Apparently I am responsible for the shipping costs.

Budget has been very tight recently, and what little $$$ I had over the last couple months went to Christmas shopping. So it may have to wait.

I'm hoping to be able to ship it back to Mossberg in early Feb (after payday). But that might not be possible either (have to get the wife something for our anniversary/valentines day), could be Mar before this thing gets sent. Will report back to THR when I do finally ship it off...

January 12, 2012, 05:27 AM
Relax , Mossberg will fix it , and then it should work smooth as silk .
While your calling them about it , ask about a standard size stock , you can trim that down to the right length easy enough .

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