As An Instructor, I Hate Instructors.


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PTT
April 20, 2011, 02:52 AM
I started getting into instruction last year. Mostly CCW stuff, but a few other odds and ends. The biggest initial challenge, like in any business, is finding customers. Luckily I'm trained in marketing, so that wasn't a huge deal.

But, once my profile became higher and people started to become aware, it wasn't long until the instructors started looking to play dirty.

First, a guy came along calling and harassing me pretending to be a student. I have a law enforcement background, and I am very good with Google. It didn't take long to find out it was another instructor. He convinced the state concealed carry unit to change one of their policies to kick a leg from under my proverbial stool on one of my classes, and then started trying to get an affiliated gun shop to drop me. I called him up, told him I knew what he was up to, and that he should leave me the hell alone.

He told me it was instructors like me who would eventually lead the state to constitutional carry, and that I'm a danger to his children, and a bunch of other bunk arguments.

So then I start getting my posts on craigslist flagged and deleted. After several reposts, they start not getting flagged, but somebody else starts making rude comments on my blog posts. I don't know what this guy was thinking--my site requires somebody to provide a valid e-mail address to post comments, and he used his work e-mail. Yet another instructor harassing me.

Except this guy's a police chief for the local university where guns are banned except in cars...unless you're there to take his class on the weekend.

Basically, out of all this and reading elsewhere, I've figured out that there are two kinds of instructors: the ones who respect their students' rights and the ones who don't.

I'll readily admit that I instruct for the money, but I charge far less than my competitors and work in my spare time to expand their rights--even when it might financially harm me as a CCW instructor. I like seeing people improve their self-defense skills and like helping people overcome a roadblock the state has placed in the way of exercising their natural rights.

Basically my five-year goal is to have CCW stuff only be a small side aspect of my business. Then when my state gets constitutional carry I won't be hurting. And the whole time I'm working politically to make it happen because I want people to be free. I don't want to spend my whole life participating in state racketeering schemes.

But these other guys and gals are all friends with each other and are engaging in price fixing. They work hard to pound anybody into the ground who doesn't toe to their line. They probably don't even realize they're doing what they are doing...they are so loaded up with justifications and defense mechanisms that they think they're on some sort of righteous crusade against evil cheap instructors who will destroy the indispensable concealed carry industry.

Sorry for the long rant, but I need to get this stuff off my chest. These jerks are really starting to stress me out.

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General Geoff
April 20, 2011, 03:05 AM
He told me it was instructors like me who would eventually lead the state to constitutional carry,

That's all that needs to be known. These other instructors are apparently pro-tyranny, as long as they get a cut of the pie.


Disgusting that we have such jackals among us.

Shadow 7D
April 20, 2011, 03:51 AM
Fair is Fair, especially in Love and War

So make friends with the local second amendment network (pink guns, 2nd amendment task force, 2nd amnd sisters etc.)

And then document, document document, and post it all in the blog section of your site,
Parallel Orson Wells, and make an 'Animal Farm' themed blog about how everybody is equal and some are more equal, and name the University chief (sorry, no love of the fuzzy fuz) as a large pig who works as the local school cop.

Just write a nice interesting blog, update it with the latest, If they threaten to sue, just remind them that the have to Identify who they are in the story and then say how it's not true, and you will make sure their name is far and wide.

If anybody asks you, just say that you have the opinion that Constitutional carry should be the norm, and they feel threatened. Also, the local 2nd amendment groups tend to have an attorney that is friendly and understanding, see if they would be kind enough to write a cease and desist letter, for the Chief, I would CC it to the state AG, ED department etc. making sure they understand what is happening. Corruption and abuse of power is something politicians and their appointees tend to flee from.

stickhauler
April 20, 2011, 04:25 AM
Shadow, George Orwell wrote "Animal Farm", Orsen Wells was an actor. But PTT, I feel your pain. I'm a trucker, and with the class of people who have recently entered my industry, I'm starting to hate truckers more and more each day.

danprkr
April 20, 2011, 04:29 AM
Works that way sometimes in the dance and appliance repair worlds too. Sucks, but some people just can't handle even the thought of competition. Just keep slogging away, and you'll get there. Eventually their tactics will drive their customers away and to you.

makarovnik
April 20, 2011, 06:43 AM
Hire a private investigator; I'm sure there is dirt on this guy. Grind him under your wheels of destruction.

mljdeckard
April 20, 2011, 07:51 AM
I'm in the process of setting up an LLC for instruction and other gun-related services. I'm not in it to make money so much as to be able to deduct more of my shooting expenses. The main reason I want to instruct is to be able to undo some of the damage and bad info I hear people getting from instructors.

earlthegoat2
April 20, 2011, 08:12 AM
In fact I am quite sure that the road to tyranny will be a hard one just because there are so many who stand to lose so much by going down that road.

Such is the same with going down the road to freedom.

EddieNFL
April 20, 2011, 08:53 AM
That's all that needs to be known. These other instructors are apparently pro-tyranny, as long as they get a cut of the pie.


Disgusting that we have such jackals among us.
Just as many dealers lamented the sunsetting of the AWB.

Hk Dan
April 20, 2011, 08:57 AM
You might remind themof the legal statute called "tortious interference"

Jonah71
April 20, 2011, 10:04 AM
Could be the main issue is that you're charging less for classes. For some people it's ONLY about the money.

M-Cameron
April 20, 2011, 11:02 AM
He told me it was instructors like me who would eventually lead the state to constitutional carry, and that I'm a danger to his children, and a bunch of other bunk arguments.

wow....im surprised you can even look at your self in the mirror.......your actually doing something to further the 2A.......what kind of lowly scum are you!.......


honestly though......dont let them get to you.....and please dont stoop to their level......if it really gets bad, file a harassment lawsuit.......

if theyre getting this upset you must be doing something right.....keep up the good work.

MattTheHat
April 20, 2011, 11:42 AM
So then I start getting my posts on craigslist flagged and deleted.

I'm guessing that has nothing to do with the other instructors. It has to do with the fact that doing so is against their policy, which is certainly their right. In the user agreement, it refers to a page listing prohibited items. The third item on that page is: "Weapons and related items, including but not limited to firearms, disguised, undetectable or switchblade knives, martial arts weapons, scopes, silencers, ammunition, ammunition magazines, BB guns, tear gas or stun guns."

-Matt

PTT
April 20, 2011, 12:06 PM
I'm guessing that has nothing to do with the other instructors. It has to do with the fact that doing so is against their policy, which is certainly their right. In the user agreement, it refers to a page listing prohibited items. The third item on that page is: "Weapons and related items, including but not limited to firearms, disguised, undetectable or switchblade knives, martial arts weapons, scopes, silencers, ammunition, ammunition magazines, BB guns, tear gas or stun guns."

-Matt

Actually, I don't sell any weapons on CL, just classes. People have been doing it locally for years, but suddenly now the flagging started.

MattTheHat
April 20, 2011, 12:47 PM
Actually, I don't sell any weapons on CL, just classes.

Yes, I realize that. If you read the prohibited items page, though, it prohibits ads for sales or services relating to the prohibited items. A CHL class is a firearms related service, and as such is a prohibited item.

I'm not saying I like it, but it's their website and their right to prohibit what they wish.


-Matt

One-Time
April 20, 2011, 01:55 PM
I am not surprised, seems many MG collectors and instructors are all too happy to encourage restrictions or keep restrictions so long as they make or dont lose money on it

KodiakBeer
April 20, 2011, 02:19 PM
Interesting! I live on an island and back when Alaska was still a permit state, there was only one qualified instructor here. Or, more accurately, there was one qualified instructor with access to an indoor range, since he also sat on the board of the local shooting club and kept anyone else from using the facility for training. We have two seasons, the monsoon season and July, so if you don't have an indoor range planning a shoot is problematic.

In 2002/03 when constitutional carry came up in the legislature, there was only one person barraging the editorial board of the local paper to describe the bloodbath that would ensue should citizens be allowed to carry without paying him first.

Anyway, I just thought this individual was uniquely hypocritical. I had no idea this was a widespread phenomena.

robmkivseries70
April 20, 2011, 02:54 PM
Hi Kodiak,
Gotta laugh, my sister was stationed there, at the air station, and is now in Valdez.
And yes, human nature is what it is.:barf:
Best,
Rob

Owen Sparks
April 20, 2011, 02:58 PM
It looks like before long you are going to have to have a law degree to get a CCW.

hardluk1
April 21, 2011, 09:40 AM
We didn't have anyone withn a hours drive for classes for years. Now there a couple guys that are holding classes at there homes in remote areas. They charge way less than a range changes and a over heard the owner whinning about these guys stealing business. Both are in law enforcement and do this as much to help people to keep them from have to drive to the big city. There price allmost half the priceof the range classes and good for them.

Ole Coot
April 21, 2011, 10:01 AM
I don't attempt to teach anything anymore because of all the "instructors" around. Think or steal a few moves, watch a few shooting clips then open your own whatever. Pick a stupid name, Asian usually and rent a spot in a strip mall, get a bunch of colored belts and you are in business. I would never teach anyone today because they think they know more than you. I do well enough to teach SD with several weapons but my approach isn't "politically correct" and I do know what combat is and don't want an internet expert telling me what I am doing wrong. I'm not very encouraging but sounds like this person needs a little training himself. I taught awareness, avoidance first and then attack not defend. Shooting was mostly point shooting from any and every position. Good Luck, hope your experience will be rewarding.

Double Naught Spy
April 21, 2011, 10:02 AM
As An Instructor, I Hate Instructors.

These jerks are really starting to stress me out.

Well let's help get you through your problem, eh? You have failed to understand your problem and as such have completely miscategorized it and in the process have done a disservice to other instructors.

From your own works, instructors are not the problem. Jerk competition is your problem. If you are going to advertise in a cheap format such as Craig's List, except that there are shortcomings. Pay for proper advertising elsewhere and the problem will be eliminated.

seuadr
April 21, 2011, 10:08 AM
I would never teach anyone today because they think they know more than you.

Ain't that the truth! I work for a local community college and ever other guy in my program doesn't need to be there cause he's got 30 years experience! of course, they look at me all blank faced when i ask them to do the simplest tasks... ;)

Rail Driver
April 21, 2011, 10:18 AM
they are so loaded up with justifications and defense mechanisms that they think they're on some sort of righteous crusade against evil cheap instructors who will destroy the indispensable concealed carry industry.

Yes, people really are foolish enough to attempt to sabotage the competition instead of upping their game. Yes, people are also ignorant enough to believe that just because they may not HAVE to get the training in the future, people will still NEED and WANT the training, and they won't lose out as much as they think.

Sure they won't have packed CCW permit classes all week, but that will give them time to put on much more in depth and exciting courses for their students. Don't they want to teach more than the same boring stuff over and over?

chieftain
April 21, 2011, 10:41 AM
This ain't about instructors, it's about people.

There are people of good charactor and there are folks that have weak, little or no charactor, in every field of endevor. Then there are the ignorant and stupid.

In the end it's life.

You state that you have a LEO back ground, and can't handle this? If this is the worst you run into, be satisfied.

Good luck.

Fred

crossrhodes
April 21, 2011, 10:46 AM
Yep those dirt bags are everywhere. I run a small firearms repair business. I don't advertise and it's by word of mouth, I'm retired and not into climbing and fighting my way up the business latter.
Well a custom rifle builder is getting ready to open a shop in this area and has started the slander campaign about my business and doing pretty much the same thing to me, as those gents are doing to you. Well it's not hurting my business and actually has driven more customers my way. I think I can contribute this to two factors. My work is good and priced to match the economy here and I guarantee my work. The other factor is he's bad mouthing the business but has no examples or proof so people look at him as being shady.
Your doing good work and fairly priced everyone want to take a chunk of change out of your butt. Good luck and hope they get what they deserve.:cuss:

PTT
April 21, 2011, 12:25 PM
This ain't about instructors, it's about people.

There are people of good charactor and there are folks that have weak, little or no charactor, in every field of endevor. Then there are the ignorant and stupid.

In the end it's life.

You state that you have a LEO back ground, and can't handle this? If this is the worst you run into, be satisfied.

Good luck.

Fred

I never said I can't handle it, just came here to vent, which is part of how I handle it without going and doing stuff I regret later :)

PTT
April 21, 2011, 12:28 PM
Well let's help get you through your problem, eh? You have failed to understand your problem and as such have completely miscategorized it and in the process have done a disservice to other instructors.

From your own works, instructors are not the problem. Jerk competition is your problem. If you are going to advertise in a cheap format such as Craig's List, except that there are shortcomings. Pay for proper advertising elsewhere and the problem will be eliminated.

CL is only a small part of my promo strategy. I figure it's free, and it does bring a few sales, so I'd be a fool to quit using it.

gym
April 21, 2011, 12:39 PM
Hire an attorney, and sue him, if you can prove he is slandering your good name and taking money out of your pocket, otherwise it's free speech.

Black Butte
April 21, 2011, 12:59 PM
Maliciously interfering with the business practices of others is an actionable tort. Gather your evidence and take your adversaries to court seeking damages.

sonick808
April 21, 2011, 01:08 PM
I had no idea how competitive the instruction arena was until AZ presented a constitutional carry bill to the Governer's desk. A large amount of instructors out here flipped and went directly to the "blood in the streets!" mentality, etc etc. Calling the governor urging her not to pass, and just behaving badly in general. I was shocked. Fortunately, she signed the bill, and there are still plenty of people attending classes, and blood isn't flowing in the streets. Good Grief.

Double Naught Spy
April 21, 2011, 02:03 PM
CL is only a small part of my promo strategy. I figure it's free, and it does bring a few sales, so I'd be a fool to quit using it.

I don't know which is more foolish, using a medium that gives poeple an inside track to stressing you out or losing a few sales. Your beef here seemed to be with a misunderstanding of your problem and how that problem was able to get to you to cause you stress that is apparently getting to be substantial.

Maybe you are handling it and can handle it as you say, but not so well that you actually even understood what the cause was. It is hard to deal with a problem properly if you don't understand the problem properly.

Of course not if your detractors find this thread here, they are going to have a field day with you because they have great confirmation about how they are getting under your skin.

PTT
April 22, 2011, 01:26 AM
I don't know which is more foolish, using a medium that gives poeple an inside track to stressing you out or losing a few sales. Your beef here seemed to be with a misunderstanding of your problem and how that problem was able to get to you to cause you stress that is apparently getting to be substantial.

Maybe you are handling it and can handle it as you say, but not so well that you actually even understood what the cause was. It is hard to deal with a problem properly if you don't understand the problem properly.

Of course not if your detractors find this thread here, they are going to have a field day with you because they have great confirmation about how they are getting under your skin.

Quit being such a drama queen.

I never said they were under my skin, and there are many different levels of stress one can be in.
I said I'm starting to get stressed, or, IOW, annoyed.

I've told my detractors directly that they're bugging the hell out of me and to quit, so there's nothing new here should they find this.

chris in va
April 22, 2011, 01:46 AM
I had a CC instructor try to tell the class you can't open carry in a car in KY. We had a 'friendly' conversation for about five minutes, he was not amused. It was not my first rodeo.:cool:

On a side note I talked a few times with a gun store owner in Virginia about his plans to open an indoor firing range. Unfortunately the other local range owners got with the county permit authority and made it darn near impossible to get approval. Too bad, it would have been really nice.

SwampWolf
April 23, 2011, 03:35 PM
Could be the main issue is that you're charging less for classes. For some people it's ONLY about the money.

Sounds like a good theory. There are people who resent competition just because it threatens to cut into their revenue.

mustang_steve
April 23, 2011, 06:13 PM
Document everything...that way if they slander your company for their profit, you can destroy them in court. Sleazeballs like that shouldn't be shown any leniency, as they won't appreciate it.

The first one to get slammed for a large defamation/slander/libel settlement, with court ordered payment schedule...they'll all knock it off real fast. Being an instructor is not profitable enough to handle something like that...so they'll wise up to avoid that mess.

NMGonzo
April 23, 2011, 08:05 PM
OP: Your fellow instructors remind me of some mean girls in elementary school

Great that you are the grown up in the room.

El Tejon
April 23, 2011, 09:38 PM
There is no greater proof that the inane "training" requirement of the CCW licenses of some states is nothing more than economic rent seeking that these threads.

Far past time to abolish "training" requirements.

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