Most accurate 9mm for target/range shooting?


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mick53
January 11, 2004, 06:41 PM
hi,

looking for your opinions on which 9mm pistol is the most accurate or has the potential for the best accuracy for target and range shooting given a first class trigger job and or an aftermarket barrel?

what i mean is which of the 9mm pistols is basically the most accurate that can be made more accurate with a little work?

aw hell, you know what i mean.

thanks

mike

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Ala Dan
January 11, 2004, 07:58 PM
Greeting's Mike-

Boy, that is a loaded question; as there are a lot
of VERY ACCURATE 9m/m self-loaders out there. Some
that I tend to favor, or have experience with are; but
not limited to the following:

Quite honestly, three SIG-SAUER/SIGARMS occupy the
top three slot's; and they are in order: P210, P226,
and P228. Followed very closely by the Browning
Hi-Power, Ruger P-series, H&K USP-F, Glock 17 & 19,
Colt Combat Commander, CZ-75 & 75B, Smith & Wesson
39-2, and believe it or not a very old MAB!

Really just depends on the user's defintion of most
accurate? As an example, I can consistently get
better groups with MY SIG P228, than I could with MY
P226. That is just how accurate some of today's 9's
really are.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

bigjim
January 11, 2004, 09:03 PM
Sig 210
HkP7

Frenchy
January 11, 2004, 09:16 PM
Well!...Seeings that we're being subjective here, I would suggest a Smith & Wesson 945! :)

WHOOPS!!...We're talking about 9mm.'s. I guess I should read the subject line a little closer!! :D

The most accurate 9mm. that I'm personally familiar with would be the Smith 5906 TSW. Subjective of course. ;)

JShirley
January 11, 2004, 09:19 PM
Sig 210 has the reputation for extreme accuracy...for a price.

John

critter
January 11, 2004, 09:35 PM
HK P7M8

Swamprabbit
January 11, 2004, 10:00 PM
I don't really know much about 9mms since the only ones I have had were two Browning HPs and a Glock 19 but if money isn't the object, you may want to check into Smith & Wesson's 952. This is supposed to be a very accurate pistol. Many years ago, I had a Model 52 which is their 38 Special version and it was extremely accurate.

Jeff OTMG
January 11, 2004, 10:32 PM
I would love to get my hands on a S&W 952, but only because I don't have one. For accuracy in 9mm out of the box a SIG P210 is the only way to go.

incursion
January 11, 2004, 10:46 PM
The Walther P88 is supposed to be very accurate as well.

Ala Dan
January 11, 2004, 10:54 PM
Greeting's incursion-

Dad blasted, you are exactly right, I forgot all about
the very fine Walther P88. :uhoh: Great firearm with
real good accuracy! :D Thanks for mentioning it.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

gbelleh
January 11, 2004, 11:09 PM
I agree with the others who have said the Sig P210 and the HK P7. Those are 2 of the most accurate 9mms out there, but they'll cost you (especially the Sig).

albanian
January 11, 2004, 11:34 PM
I don't know which is the most accurate but there are several that seem to be better than others. It will depend on the particular gun even among models that have a good rep.

BHP is often pretty accurate but it will certainly need a trigger job or at least the mag safety removed.

The SIG line are often above average in terms of accuracy but I feel they are harder to shoot than many others.

The 1911 type 9mms are often tack drivers because of a good SA trigger and good feel (for many people). Star made some that were very accurate for the money. Colt and SA make 9mm 1911s now I think.

The CZ-75 is supposed to be good but I have heard mixed reviews concerning the accuracy, some find it great while others think it is only O.K. I think it depends on if you get a good one. The SA trigger is bad on CZs and will need work.

Benelli and Bernadelli (spelling?) made a couple of respected 9mms that might be worth a look.

If it were me and I was looking to do some serious target shooting, I would find a good 1911 or BHP 9mm and go from there. You will be able to find plenty of aftermarket parts and gunsmiths that can do work on them. Some of the oddballs that I listed would be hard to find spare parts for.

artherd
January 12, 2004, 05:45 AM
My new Glock 34 is outstanding! I have no doubts it could place them all through one hole if I were good enough.

It's as light as a G17, slightly smaller than a 1911, and much lighter than the same.

Shoots like a .22 target pistol, and hits like a .357 (with +p+ 9mm) and feels like a cary pistol (weight.) What's not to like?

If you wanted a range-only gun, the compensated G17L should be even more outstanding, though I haven't had the pleasure yet.

Berg01
January 12, 2004, 08:58 AM
Absolutely no bad choices to be made between the Sig P210, S&W 952, CZ Champion, a 9mm STI Trojan, and a Tuned & Accurized BHP. Most accurate out of the box is the P210; the one with the most potential would be the BHP in the hands of a good smith. The highest fun factor goes to the 9mm STI Trojan.

Sean Smith
January 12, 2004, 09:30 AM
looking for your opinions on which 9mm pistol is the most accurate or has the potential for the best accuracy for target and range shooting given a first class trigger job and or an aftermarket barrel?

This is one of the few gun questions out there that has an objectively correct answer: The Sig P210. No modifications needed, except to your bank account. :D

http://www.sigarms.com/products/p210.asp

The P210 Pistol can arguably be called the "most accurate production handgun" in the world.

the one with the most potential would be the BHP in the hands of a good smith.

Actually, I know of no 'smith that can guarantee that they'll make a more accurate BHP at 50 meters than a P210 is guaranteed to be out of the box. And I know of no modified BHP trigger that is as good as an out-of-box P210 trigger.

Lots of guns are better at lots of things than the P210 is. My next gun is more apt to be a modified BHP than a P210. But for accuracy and trigger pull in a 9x19 gun the P210 is in a class of 1.

Walt Sherrill
January 12, 2004, 09:36 AM
SIG P-210(-6)
Browning Hi-Power
CZ-75s
Glock 34

I had all of the above, and still have them all except the P-210-6. They all shot about as same out to 20 yards for me, but the P-210-6 seemed far easier to shoot well with beyond 20 yards. Closer than that, it was more the shooter than the gun. (My P-210-6 came with a proof target from the factory showing a 1.75" [approx] five shot group at 50 meters.)

As someone else noted, some CZs are super accurate, some are just OK. I've got several of the "super accurate" ones, but think it was -- at least three of the cases -- just luck. (A used one I bought from another forum member has had a lot of work done to it, and it shoots well 'cause a good gunsmith made it to shoot that way.)

The S&W 952 is also very accurate; I have a S&W 52-2, and the 952s seem to shoot nearly as well -- and do it with nine 9x19s, rather than five .38 special wadcutters.

rauchman
January 12, 2004, 09:44 AM
Greetings,

I've never shot one, but the Sig P210 has a legendary following as one of, if not the, most accurate 9mm's out of the box. I've heard great things about the HK P9S and P7 series as well. I would think the HK USP Experts/Elites would be excellent choices for accuracy too. The Walther P88 is supposed to be a tack driver as well. Also, the Steyr GB was supposed to be very accurate. I think the Sig P226 and P228 are accurate as well, but not in the same league as the previously mentioned. A 9mm 1911 would certainly be an interesting choice. I'm looking to get a CZ75SA 9mm. I have one in .40, and it is incredibly accurate. For the budget minded, this is the way to go. It is too bad, that some of the most interesting pics here are no longer manufactured......Walther P88, HK P9S, Steyr GB. Oh well.

Berg01
January 12, 2004, 01:02 PM
Actually, I know of no 'smith that can guarantee that they'll make a more accurate BHP at 50 meters than a P210 is guaranteed to be out of the box. And I know of no modified BHP trigger that is as good as an out-of-box P210 trigger.

I agree with this statement, but what I meant to say is that a gunsmith can greatly improve a stock BHP, particularly the trigger, since most of the newer ones seem to have triggers that are a bit heavy. Amoung target 9mms, the P210 is still the state of the art.

But when it comes to Bullseye accuracy, the .38 spl. and .45 ACP. are better caliber choices than 9mm.

TODD3465
January 12, 2004, 01:53 PM
Glock 17L if you can find one. The've been imported off and on lately.

ss
January 12, 2004, 02:10 PM
From what I've been reading.

1) SIG P210-8
2) S&W 952-1
3) Walther P88

Others in no particular order:
S&W PC5906
S&W PPC9
BHP
P226
CZ 75s
HKP7

cratz2
January 12, 2004, 03:15 PM
I think for around $1,000, a 9mm STI Trojan will give any dedicated 9mm a run for its money. For dedicated 9mms, I'd probably put my money on the 210 if testing 20 of each and would make a very nice comfortable range gun if you've got the coin to pop for it.

The S&W 952 is very nice as well. The P88 is nice but if I were going to get a 9mm right now and had a $1,000 budget, I'd pick up a P7.

As far asking about the most accurate guns goes... I need to ask you, have you ever fired a 1.5" group at 25 yards offhand? If not, then there are probably many guns that are plenty accurate for many needs. A CZ75 is a very comfortable platform with minimal recoil, very reliable and as accurate as most folks can hold. All for under $400.

MrFreeze
January 12, 2004, 08:44 PM
I enjoy my Springfield Loaded SS 1911 9mm with an adjustable target sight...they don't list this particular model on their website, but you can call them to get a part number if you're interested. I paid a tad over $650 for it.

Travis

Maddock
January 12, 2004, 09:20 PM
The three most accurate 9s I have ever seen were a stock P210, a Browning High Power and a 1911. Both the 1911 and the BHP were extensively worked on with match barrels.

Extremist
January 12, 2004, 09:34 PM
My 3 Most Accurate 9mms:

- HK USP Elite
- HK P7 M8 or M13
- HK P9S Combat

Followed by:

Walther P99, closely :D

Regards,
James

P.S. I had a Walther P88 and sold it because it wasn't very accurate (at least for me).

George Hill
January 12, 2004, 09:51 PM
SIG P210.

gvass
January 13, 2004, 07:32 AM
hi,
the SIG P210 is close to perfect 9 mm target pistol.
But it is the same class as a Rolls-Royce.

The steel-framed target version of the P226 (6" bull barrel, tuned trigger, adj. sights) is about 1800 USD in Europe, I don't know if it is marketed is US.
It is well worth its price, beautiful (Nill-Grips are standard!) and undestructible.
I shooted it with the same accuracy as my Python. Great from a locked breech semiauto.

The HK P7, Expert, P9S are also great, but not the same class.

T.Stahl
January 13, 2004, 12:28 PM
If money doesn't matter:

SIG 210-5 Heavy Frame Long Slide :D

mephisto
January 13, 2004, 12:56 PM
Steyr m9, cz75, 92fs

Sean Smith
January 13, 2004, 01:13 PM
I think most of the suggestions on this topic merely prove that people don't know how accurate their guns are. Aside from being "combat accurate" of course ;) , which is just another way of saying, "inaccurate." Or they are just posting which 9x19 gun they like without reference to the topic question.

As usual. :D

Ky Larry
January 13, 2004, 01:24 PM
Where would us poor, uneducated, wretces be without Sean Smith to tell us we're dumb and can't shoot. We probably smell bad too. I feel so much better knowing he's here to guide us.:rolleyes:
Please tell the great unwashed masses what we should shoot and how to shoot. Fire away Mr Smith.

Sean Smith
January 13, 2004, 01:35 PM
Ky Larry,

Ever cross your mind that you took my post just a TINY bit too seriously?

:neener:

I was just making fun of the fact that these "what gun for X?" topics always result in people recommending what they own, no matter how irrelevant it is to the question that was asked. Or do you really think that a CZ or Glock is going to wrest the "most accurate 9mm" crown from a P210? A P7 might be in the running, or an STI... but cheap service pistols?

Hmmm... let me think... close call, that. ;)

I LIKE CZs, but they can't deliver the group size @ distance objective performance to be in the running, on average. Give a Glock 17 and a P210 to bullseye shooters of equal skill, and make a wild guess who is going to get hosed. :rolleyes:

bigjim
January 13, 2004, 03:00 PM
Nope Sean,

you must have got a crappy G17. Everyone elses will out shoot a Sig 210 or P7 anyday. :what:

Sean Smith
January 13, 2004, 03:06 PM
Well, in that case, nevermind. :D

Master Blaster
January 13, 2004, 03:48 PM
Pardini makes a pretty accurate pistol but its 9x21

I have shot the .45 acp version, and its good enough for bullseye, with a very nice adjustible trigger

http://www.pardini.it/inglese/tiro%20dinamico%20ING/PCING.html

berto
January 13, 2004, 04:02 PM
I have no experience of this,but I have heard the Luger was reknown for being very accurate....If I were in the market specifically for a target accurate 9mm sevice style pistol,I'd probably go with the Smith 952 or an accurized 1911 in 9mm-STI most likely.

peashooter
January 13, 2004, 06:18 PM
Beretta 92FS.:neener:

hansolo
January 13, 2004, 08:18 PM
Hi-Point :confused:

Tropical Z in 5...4...3...2...

modifiedbrowning
January 13, 2004, 08:43 PM
My most accurate pistol is definitely my Walther P88, followed by the P88 Compact and HK P9S. My P99's aren't far behind.

gvass
January 14, 2004, 05:08 AM
hi,
"My most accurate pistol is definitely my Walther P88"

The standard P88 has actually WORSE trigger, than the shorter P88 COMPACT.

Because for every shot, you must push UP the entire firing pin with your trigger.

BUT: Sean Smith is right: none of these "service/selfdefence" semiautos come close to _dedicated_ bullseye target pistols.
No matter how do you love YOUR particular gun.

BTW: Pardini also make 9x19 version of the PC9.

Hal
January 14, 2004, 05:57 AM
I think most of the suggestions on this topic merely prove that people don't know how accurate their guns are I'd have said "aren't" instead of "are" but that's just me. ;)
Neither of my BHP's, nor my CZ75b 9mm are up to what what I demand for accurate.
The 75b, if I'd drop a Champion trigger group in it and fine fit a Kadet upper would be in the running though. - but that would make it not a 9mm...

Walt Sherrill
January 14, 2004, 12:37 PM
I'd have said "aren't" instead of "are" but that's just me.
Neither of my BHP's, nor my CZ75b 9mm are up to what what I demand for accurate.

The 75b, if I'd drop a Champion trigger group in it and fine fit a Kadet upper would be in the running though. - but that would make it not a 9mm...The Champion hammer, sear and trigger would make it easier to shoot well, but really wouldn't change the gun's innate accuracy. It might make it easier for you to realize the gun's potential.

(I have a Champion sear in my 85 Combat -- but didn't want to go SA, so don't have the Champion trigger and hammer.)

A Ransome Rest would show this to be true... the trigger is part of the human factor.

1832
January 14, 2004, 03:46 PM
My Para LDA 18-9 Ltd was a total surprise in the accuracy department. It is the best 9mm I've ever shot (including the 952). My CZ Combat 85 is a close second.

artherd
January 14, 2004, 04:24 PM
BUT: Sean Smith is right: none of these "service/selfdefence" semiautos come close to _dedicated_ bullseye target pistols.
No matter how do you love YOUR particular gun.



I would have agreed with you a year ago, but now I don't know. My Glock 34 is pretty darn close to the best of both these worlds.

It is scary accurate. I shot her again today, and was aghast at first. I missed the paper completely!

Nope, the entire mag went through the black X in the 10-ring.


It's competition target-accurate, and carry/combat durable and reliable.

Sean Smith
January 14, 2004, 04:47 PM
Nope, the entire mag went through the black X in the 10-ring.

Um, at what DISTANCE did it do that? ;)

Peter M. Eick
January 14, 2004, 07:48 PM
Most Accurate that I can tell? This is from best to dang good.

210-5
210-6
H&K P7PSP (european heal release)
H&K P7PSP (american heal release)

After that it goes down hill pretty quick....

artherd
January 14, 2004, 08:31 PM
Um, at what DISTANCE did it do that?

Ok, at 7yds to be fair :)

But still, I was more than a little impressed. This gun exposes *all* of my shooting ability for what it is (ie, lousy, because I'm not hitting 1 hole all the time :)

Best!
Ben.

gvass
January 15, 2004, 04:00 AM
"Ok, at 7yds to be fair"

Are you kidding???

And another aspect: the service/defence pistol could be very accurate for some consecutive shots (or from a ransom rest).
But the REAL target pistols are _easy_ to shoot accurately from human hand for longer sessions.

In Europe the static bullseye competitions are mostly shot according to ISSF rules. It means, that you have 20 minutes for 20 shots from 25 meters.
With a service pistol, most people usually shoot some fine groups, from the first 5-10 shots. Than the shooter became tired, and a less-than-perfect sight, grip, or trigger will be ruining the entire 20rd group.

VG
January 15, 2004, 05:04 AM
The S&W 952 is a Performance Center pistol, and pretty compelling.

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/userimages/170220_large.jpg

Hal
January 15, 2004, 05:51 AM
Walt,
That's why I specified using a "fine fitted" Kadet upper.
MY 75b is a better .22 than it is a 9mm in terms of pinpoint accuracy.
I know fer sure if I'da spent extra time fitting the Kadet unit the thing would be ungodly accurate,,excepting for the trigger.

Walt Sherrill
January 15, 2004, 08:20 AM
Hal wrote:

MY 75b is a better .22 than it is a 9mm in terms of pinpoint accuracy.
I know fer sure if I'da spent extra time fitting the Kadet unit the thing would be ungodly accurate,,excepting for the trigger...I understand, and would argue that you affirm my original point: since both the 9mm and .22 use the same lower/trigger, its obviously not the trigger that makes the difference. Its the upper and what YOU DO with the trigger that really matters.

I have a Kadet Kit, too, and it is amazingly accurate. It is so good, I traded away my stainless Ruger Target Competition [Long bull barrel] for a very nice Witness Sport Long Slide in .45.

The guy on the other end of the trade had a bad case of arthritis in his hands and wrists and was not longer able to shoot .45 comfortably. From his perspective he won -- as he continues shooting with a fine gun. From my perspective, I won, as I now have a very, very nice .45. (After a LOT of trigger work and dry firing, it is great.)

We both won.

On topic: I had a P-210-6 for a couple of years, and it was a very fine weapon -- and far more accurate than I could ever use.

I now have a CZ-75B SA that has had a lot of custom work done to it, and it seems to shoot almost as well and, believe it or not, the trigger if just as good. (Unhappily, the gunsmith who did the work for the prior owner is now out of sight somewhere, or I'd send him some more guns!)

I'd give the P-210-6 an edge beyond 20 yards, though -- against darned near any gun except another 210...

Sean Smith
January 15, 2004, 09:48 AM
Ok, at 7yds to be fair

Bullseye competitions in the U.S. are shot at 25 and 50 yards. :D

Not that I'm that good at 25, and aside from hitting large objects for fun don't shoot handguns any further than that. I'm just pointing out the degree of accuracy we are talking about with a true "target" pistol.

The accuracy benchmark for most folks that sell custom bullseye guns in the U.S. is thus 1.5" @ 50 yards. The P210 is in the same ballpark.

artherd
January 15, 2004, 07:37 PM
But the REAL target pistols are _easy_ to shoot accurately from human hand for longer sessions.


Good and valid point. 20 shots in 20 *minuites!?* Wow :) I would say at the range I average 2-5 seconds between shots. So far for my skill level, there's no sense in staying on target any longer. Plus, my arms get tired!


Bullseye competitions in the U.S. are shot at 25 and 50 yards. My local range only goes to 15 :) (and I'm a newbie to boot!)

My friend's compact G23 (with stock 5.5lb trigger, my G34 has a great 3.5lb) is 'minuite-of-wine-bottle' accurate at 50yds though, repeatadely. That is about 4" all the same. I wish I could shoot acurately at 50 yds. I'd need a rifle to compete with those guys!

I've been nothing but impressed with Glock's accuracy however.

nero45acp
January 15, 2004, 08:02 PM
SIG P210
HK P7M8
SW 952

Also, I have a Kimber Stainless Target II 9mm that is an absolute tack driver and less expensive than any of the above.




nero45acp

Hal
January 15, 2004, 09:36 PM
Walt.
Gotcha. I see what you're driving at.

gabeodog
January 17, 2004, 08:57 PM
I have shot thousands of rds tru the P-228 great gun gret accuracy.

gvass
January 20, 2004, 08:55 AM
"Good and valid point. 20 shots in 20 *minuites!?* "

Yes, and If you are shooting the 20 rds under 10 minutes, you are probably to fast to be accurate.
The top bullseye shooters elevate down their guns, and controlling their breath between each and every shots.

And the top guys are capable above 195 points from the possible 200.
The 10-ring on the ISSF 8-a pistol target is less than 1 inch diameter.
So, the 195 points mean, that at laast 15 of their 20 bullets must landed in the 10-ring.

You need more than a "service auto" for this accuracy.

(No, I am not that good:-((, but I'm training on the same range with such top-guys.)

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