Why would i own a Handgun?


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SifuGun
April 22, 2011, 12:05 PM
I am an avid marksman. I enjoy going out to the range and shooting my 7mm rem mag. I like to estimate the wind-age, trajectory, etc. I hand load my rounds. I even have a sub 2000 9mm i like shooting at the 100 yard lane. So, how would someone like me find enjoyment in shooting a hand gun. As we know hand guns are great for personal protection. But really how often are you going to get mugged? And if you were held up most people say let them take what they want. So you can get away with your life. If you do your best to stay away from trouble more than likely it will not find you. So what is the sporting value in a handgun? I see people shoot them tactically and that seems fun. If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it. Well, enough said. I like the communities advise on the subject. In other words what is it about handgun shooting that you like? Sincerely, SifuGun.

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btg3
April 22, 2011, 12:11 PM
As we know hand guns are great for personal protection.
Wish I'd said that.

Smoovbiscuit
April 22, 2011, 12:11 PM
how often does one get mugged? thats like says car crashes are rare so don't wear your seatbelt.

ColtPythonElite
April 22, 2011, 12:14 PM
If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it.

That statement makes it obvious you don't own a handgun....It usually takes a good amount of practice to build up the skills to hit a target smaller than a breadbox with a handgun.

JHK94
April 22, 2011, 12:16 PM
If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it.

I think this is a common misconception, certainly one I have seen in a lot of people, shooters and non-shooters alike, when first using a handgun. They figure you just point your hand at something and boom, you hit it. It is always amazing how difficult it is to hit targets!

gbelleh
April 22, 2011, 12:22 PM
I enjoy pistol shooting. So, why would I want to shoot a rifle? I'll probably never need to shoot anything past 25 yards anyway. And with such a long barrel, hitting your target must be a piece of cake.

Just try pistol shooting and see if you like it. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.

Sam1911
April 22, 2011, 12:23 PM
If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it.You're probably right! Assuredly, one would not miss a target at less than 25 yards, in theory.

But it might be worth your time to come out to some type of pistol-oriented competition and see how it works, in practice. Could be it's harder than it sounds. ;)

...

In all seriousness, there are several different kinds of handgun competition. The one closest to the kinds of shooting you're used to doing would probably be IHMSA which is long range (out to 200 meters) slow-fire steel silhouette shooting.

You might also be comfortable shooting "bullseye" style matches, which also reward marksmanship over all else.

The "action" or "practical" shooting sports introduce the element of speed into the mix. They are more reflective of the kinds of skills needed to employ sidearms in the role they were invented to fill: fast, close, defensive uses primarily. Practical shooting pushes you to develop your gunhandling skills much more so than your mechanical accuracy skills. So instead of being tested on the fundamentals of marksmanship, you're being tested on your ability to draw and acquire a sight picture quickly, shoot while moving, (in some cases) shoot around cover or obstacles and in positions that are not conducive to perfect form/stance, reload quickly, engage and transition smoothly between multiple targets, engage moving targets, engage targets that only present themselves for a second or two, and so forth. You may find that hitting some targets -- at 5-7 yards, let alone 25 -- is quite a bit more of a challenge than you thought. Or that hitting them is easy, but hitting them accurately, multiple times, in under a second (as you might need to do to be at all competitive) is not easy in the least.

I'm sure if you really want to try out handguns for sport, there is a discipline that would appeal to you.

MtnCreek
April 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
In other words what is it about handgun shooting that you like?

Shooting a handgun is really different than shooting a rifle. For many, many years I had no interest in shooting a handgun; they really didn't excite me because they 'are not accurate'. I was discussing this with a friend of mine a couple of years ago. He asked me what I carry for protection; I responded that I keep a pistol in my truck. He just smiled at me and I knew that I was screwing up by not learning to properly use it. So I decided that I would learn to properly use a pistol and I quickly discoved that I really enjoyed the challenge. I also learned that a good pistol IS accurate when used properly. I'm far from any 'top shot', but I've learned to use one well enough to enjoy it.

bbuddtec
April 22, 2011, 01:33 PM
Three words. Line of sight.

Then take a pistol with a 7inch line of sight and hit a 100 yd target... with a Weaver stance.
Don't be so quick to expel derision coming from a narrow perspective.

:rolleyes:

KimberUltra
April 22, 2011, 01:51 PM
I'll admit that shooting a pistol is way harder than I thought. Granted if you have never shot a pistol before you could still probably hit a man sized target at 25 feet, but doing it accurately is a different story. I see some guys at the range rapid firing into a target at 25 feet and putting it in inch groupings with any gun they pick up. I'm very jealous of them.

vaherder
April 22, 2011, 01:54 PM
Why do you need a handgun or rifle when you can call in an airstrike or a few rounds of HE? Then there are drones which can take care of a mugger too.

On the farm most days I am carrying my Walther P99 and a have my 94 on my ATV. Predators, snakes, and rabid animals etc are all issues. Also I may have a sheep that is injured or ill that needs to put down. Every once in a great while I have a rogue sheep that goes after my dogs and me for no reason. Both the Walther and 94 come in handy. If things get more serious
out comes my SCAR17 or Model 70. We have been hearing a mountain lion(s) at night if the LGDs can't take off of this and they did last time I will if losses become serious.

Now if things really go to hell I call a buddy down at NAS Oceana.

Ala Dan
April 22, 2011, 02:06 PM
The only rifles I own, are a stainless/syntheic Ruger 10/22; and 2x "black
rifles", a Colt 16" barrel H-BAR and a Rock River Arms Operator Elite both
chambered for the 5.56 NATO cartridge~! Guess U could say, "I'm a Hand-
Gunner". :) :D

MtnCreek
April 22, 2011, 02:08 PM
Every once in a great while I have a rogue sheep that goes after my dogs and me for no reason

You may need a larger dog. My dog got a wild hair yesterday evening and barrel rolled a 200lb goat!

KodiakBeer
April 22, 2011, 02:12 PM
Why don't you go to the range with somebody who actually shoots a handgun, borrow his and show him how easy it is?

Ironclad
April 22, 2011, 02:46 PM
As we know hand guns are great for personal protection. But really how often are you going to get mugged? And if you were held up most people say let them take what they want. So you can get away with your life. If you do your best to stay away from trouble more than likely it will not find you.

You are assuming a lot here. You assume that the only possible SD scenario is a mugging, where the perp will simply want your money or stuff and then let you go on your merry way, unharmed. You assume that this has to happen to you "often" to be worth trying to prevent. No, its not worth shooting someone to protect your wallet, but if someone wants to rape your wife, will you "give him what he wants to get away with your life"?

Handguns fill a very important void for places where you can't walk around with a rifle slung over your back, but still need some protection.

Plus, they can be just as fun as rifles. Some short range, rapid fire pistol practice is great stress relief. Long range rifle can be enjoyable too, but sometimes its a little too slow paced and thought intensive for me. After a week of calculus and other homework, I need to do something a little more physical and less mental for a change.

PabloJ
April 22, 2011, 03:30 PM
With Freedom Arms 83 in .454 and quality electro-optical sight one can take game at roughly same range as another hunter with specialty slug shotgun. There is bigger stuff out there but for me anything larger means rifle.

gringolet
April 22, 2011, 03:40 PM
like all good liberals I use my handguns for duck hunting.

FourteenMiles
April 22, 2011, 03:57 PM
It is not just a "give me your wallet" situation you may need to defend against. There are many potential reasons you may need to defend yourself or your family.

It can be quite easy to hit a poster sized target at 25 yards, the challenge and fun lies in landing a quick succession of shots in an acceptable grouping. Practice presenting and firing your weapon, reloading and misfire drills, firing while moving, firing from behind cover, maybe add a few more targets: Things can get interesting.

Do I ever imagine actually using these skills? Most likely not. Still it is fun to develop and comforting to know it's an option.

Mad Magyar
April 22, 2011, 04:00 PM
I usually get the OP's view when I'm firing my M-1 carbine. However, I'm jolted back to reality every time I stop late at night picking up a few things at the local "shop & rob" store....I really am in Condition Orange at any Wally World parking lot late in the evening...:uhoh: Handguns have their place.....

Loosedhorse
April 22, 2011, 04:06 PM
Why would i own a Handgun?If you don't think they're fun, and figure you'll either never need a firearm for SD or defense of family, or you'll always have your rifle with you if you do...

Then no reason.

Next topic: I have a garden hose. Why would I own a fire extinguisher? Shouldn't I just give the fire what it wants?

PcolaDawg
April 22, 2011, 04:18 PM
One reason is that I can ALWAYS have a handgun on me. Can't say that for a rifle or shotgun. There are lots of reasons why it's important for me to always have a firearm on me, but just limiting it to work outside - that would be enough of a reason to own and train with handguns.

When all I had was a shotgun and a couple of rifles, I'd always have to run back to the house to get a gun whenever I was mowing and came across an aggressive poisonous snakes. Having kids around, I wanted to kill every poisonous snake I could find. Thing is, no snake ever hung around long enough for me to run back to the house and grab a shotgun. Now that I have a handgun on me at all times - that's not a problem. I don't even have to leave my riding mower. I just pull out my handgun (filled with .410 rounds) and end the snake without even having to stand up.

I was also menaced by a pack of aggressive wild dawgs. If I had even tried to turn around and head to the house, they could/would have been on me before I'd taken three steps. But I had a snub nose revolver filled with plus p .38 ammo and a laser sight. I just sighted in on the leader of the pack as it was heading toward me and, with one shot, I took care of the leader. The rest of the pack practically vaporised they left so fast. I haven't seen 'em back in two years.

I could go on but, hopefully, you've got a bit of a picture why I now own more handguns than rifles and shotguns. :cool:

shiftyer1
April 22, 2011, 04:42 PM
I own handguns because i'd look funny wearin britches with pockets big enough to stick my shotgun in it.

sirgilligan
April 22, 2011, 04:52 PM
SifuGun,

I am not sure if you intended your post to read as if you are taking the position that the only reason one would need a gun is for sports shooting. I am sorry but it reads like an "anti-handgun" position.

I will take this unusual position on the matter. I don't like shooting pistols at all. I don't like the costs of ammunition. I don't like cleaning the firearm. I don't like range fees.

I own handguns because I believe it is included in my Constitutional rights and if I do not exercise those rights then I might lose them.

Another position on the matter is that handgun shooting is the best sporting event ever. More fun then America's most favorite past time of watching T.V. What would make it even more fun? 100 round mags. Silencers. Competitions in the dark with lasers, lights, infrared, and night vision. It would be even more fun if the guns could be made smaller and without warning labels, locks, or safety mechanisms.

I am not picking on you, I am just afraid that if the only reason to own one is sports shooting then it is the road to eliminating the sport. I lived in Europe for a while and the country I was in allowed for one hunting rifle, but no hand guns. Why? Because the use was for sporting applications only. I do not want that to happen here.

BullfrogKen
April 22, 2011, 05:07 PM
Seriously? Are you trying to start an argument, or are you asking a serious question?


If you do your best to stay away from trouble more than likely it will not find you.


That's simply an ignorant, naive statement. And for a whole lot of victims of crime, it also pretty damn insensitive.

Arkansas Paul
April 22, 2011, 05:28 PM
So, how would someone like me find enjoyment in shooting a hand gun.


You like shooting rifles from 100 yds. Try shooting a big bore revolver from the same distance. It's a little more challenging.
I wasn't always into hand guns. Didn't have anything against them, I just didn't see the need for one. I had my hunting rifles and a pump shotty for home defense. But in the last couple of years, that's all I've wanted to shoot. I'm not sure why. I'm just on a hand gun kick right now.
But if you're just into rifles and not so much pistols, that's okay too. I used to be there.

Manta77
April 22, 2011, 05:33 PM
It's your right. Not everyone has that privilege.

gohogs93
April 22, 2011, 05:43 PM
Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

1911Tuner
April 22, 2011, 06:18 PM
Quote:

> So what is the sporting value in a handgun?<

What does it have to do with sporting value/purposes? 2A doesn't state that we have the right to keep and bear sporting goods.

The sporting use of arms is a spinoff of the original intent as outlined by the founders. It's a pleasant pursuit...but still has nothing to do with it.

It's also a free country. If you don't have any use for a handgun, then don't keep one.

gearhead
April 22, 2011, 06:57 PM
I used to drive race cars semi-professionally. While the fastest and most precise cars are a lot of fun to drive, there's a real challenge in taking a heavy, large, wallowing, skinny-tired car and wrestling it to make it do what it's capable of doing. You won't have the precision of a finely tuned target rifle with any handgun but that doesn't mean they aren't a challenge and it doesn't mean that you won't make yourself a better marksman by learning to shoot different platforms well.

Caliper_RWVA
April 22, 2011, 07:12 PM
If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it.

Another vote for "try it before you say that". 25yd is a *horrible* distance to start a novice on pistol shooting. 25 feet is better, but 15 is more reasonable.

Pistols are also used in some competitions that are very different than most rifle competition. Things like steel target or bowling pin shooting combine both accuracy and speed. The targets are often much closer than 25yd, but competitive times mean firing several shots per second while acquiring and hitting multiple targets. It's not the same kind of marksmanship carefully judging the range, wind, etc. Try it, you might like it.

SifuGun
April 22, 2011, 09:57 PM
You're probably right! Assuredly, one would not miss a target at less than 25 yards, in theory.

But it might be worth your time to come out to some type of pistol-oriented competition and see how it works, in practice. Could be it's harder than it sounds. ;)

...

In all seriousness, there are several different kinds of handgun competition. The one closest to the kinds of shooting you're used to doing would probably be IHMSA which is long range (out to 200 meters) slow-fire steel silhouette shooting.

You might also be comfortable shooting "bullseye" style matches, which also reward marksmanship over all else.

The "action" or "practical" shooting sports introduce the element of speed into the mix. They are more reflective of the kinds of skills needed to employ sidearms in the role they were invented to fill: fast, close, defensive uses primarily. Practical shooting pushes you to develop your gunhandling skills much more so than your mechanical accuracy skills. So instead of being tested on the fundamentals of marksmanship, you're being tested on your ability to draw and acquire a sight picture quickly, shoot while moving, (in some cases) shoot around cover or obstacles and in positions that are not conducive to perfect form/stance, reload quickly, engage and transition smoothly between multiple targets, engage moving targets, engage targets that only present themselves for a second or two, and so forth. You may find that hitting some targets -- at 5-7 yards, let alone 25 -- is quite a bit more of a challenge than you thought. Or that hitting them is easy, but hitting them accurately, multiple times, in under a second (as you might need to do to be at all competitive) is not easy in the least.

I'm sure if you really want to try out handguns for sport, there is a discipline that would appeal to you.
Sam1911, thank you for your reply. Okay lets say i get a handgun for SD and competition-tactical shooting. It would have to meet these requirements. 1. A real safety button. 2. be accurate out to 50 yards. 3. have the ability to install a recoil buffer of some kind. 4. Preferably a 9mm caliber. (I shoot 147 grain boat tail Hornady's out 100 yards accurately with my sub 2000 that has a 16" barrel) 5. front bottom rail. Which handgun would you recommend?

SifuGun
April 22, 2011, 10:07 PM
That statement makes it obvious you don't own a handgun....It usually takes a good amount of practice to build up the skills to hit a target smaller than a breadbox with a handgun.
Well, I am lucky because my brother Owns three Sig Sauers. He like other people like to say they rather buy Good guns that gold. He has the P220, P238, and the P226. He brought the last two out and I shoot them at about 10 yards. They were nice like a piece of jewelry another thing my brother collects. But still was not feeling the appeal. I noticed they were alot of Girls shooting in the handgun area. Whereas I have never seen any girls at the rifle range. Now don't get your feathers ruffled, :). Please look for my other replies in this thread where i vindicate the use of handguns.

SifuGun
April 22, 2011, 10:19 PM
You are assuming a lot here. You assume that the only possible SD scenario is a mugging, where the perp will simply want your money or stuff and then let you go on your merry way, unharmed. You assume that this has to happen to you "often" to be worth trying to prevent. No, its not worth shooting someone to protect your wallet, but if someone wants to rape your wife, will you "give him what he wants to get away with your life"?

Handguns fill a very important void for places where you can't walk around with a rifle slung over your back, but still need some protection.

Plus, they can be just as fun as rifles. Some short range, rapid fire pistol practice is great stress relief. Long range rifle can be enjoyable too, but sometimes its a little too slow paced and thought intensive for me. After a week of calculus and other homework, I need to do something a little more physical and less mental for a change.
Ironclad has the two best answers so far.

1. Protect the wife when your around. ( Guess she needs one also when I'am not around)
2. Just go out an shoot reactive targets without much thinking for stress relief. I like this one.

And a few members came up with this one which is a good reason to have a handgun:

3. Utility, for killing varmints , pest, etc. on the farm or property.

The first one reminds me of my rich uncle that got robbed one day. Ever since then I noticed he was packing a handgun in a concealed shoulder holster under his sport coat.
Sign of the times and just the way it is.

SifuGun
April 22, 2011, 10:36 PM
I used to drive race cars semi-professionally. While the fastest and most precise cars are a lot of fun to drive, there's a real challenge in taking a heavy, large, wallowing, skinny-tired car and wrestling it to make it do what it's capable of doing. You won't have the precision of a finely tuned target rifle with any handgun but that doesn't mean they aren't a challenge and it doesn't mean that you won't make yourself a better marksman by learning to shoot different platforms well.
Given the ballistics provided by Hornady's on-line calculator. I think handgun shooting would be both manageable and fun. And like Gearhead said a .

147 gr 9mm 950 fps 147 gr., .212 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 25 50 75 100 150 200
Velocity (fps) 950 931 913 896 880 850 822
Energy (ft.-lb.) 295 283 272 262 253 236 221
Trajectory (10 yd. zero) -0.8 0.5 -0.8 -4.6 -11.2 -32.8 -66.4
Wind Drift (inches) 0.0 0.1 0.6 1.3 2.3 5.0 8.8
Come Up in MOA -0.8 -1.8 1.5 5.9 10.7 20.9 31.7
Wind Drift (moa) 0.00 0.56 1.10 1.63 2.16 3.19 4.20

TexAg
April 22, 2011, 10:56 PM
In your requirements of your potential 9mm you list the ability to install a recoil buffer. Why? Most pistols do not need one and could in fact adversely affect operation. Per your req's I would reccommend looking at a CZ-75b.

jiminhobesound
April 22, 2011, 10:59 PM
Shooting a handgun is like golf. The difference between shooting and shooting well is vast. Go out and buy a .22 handgun and spend some time with it. Compare your ability to the top shooters and you will see the golf anology.

SifuGun
April 23, 2011, 12:18 AM
Thanks for the tip. I'll be getting this gun asap. I love gun with a good rep.

12131
April 23, 2011, 03:04 AM
Why would i own a Handgun?
I am an avid marksman. I enjoy going out to the range and shooting my 7mm rem mag. I like to estimate the wind-age, trajectory, etc. I hand load my rounds. I even have a sub 2000 9mm i like shooting at the 100 yard lane. So, how would someone like me find enjoyment in shooting a hand gun. As we know hand guns are great for personal protection. But really how often are you going to get mugged? And if you were held up most people say let them take what they want. So you can get away with your life. If you do your best to stay away from trouble more than likely it will not find you. So what is the sporting value in a handgun? I see people shoot them tactically and that seems fun. If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it. Well, enough said. I like the communities advise on the subject. In other words what is it about handgun shooting that you like? Sincerely, SifuGun.
Three words: Dr. William Petit.
And that's just one example. My friend, don't be so naive.

TestPilot
April 23, 2011, 05:14 AM
How do you know if the criminal just wants your money?

Some criminals don't even wants money. They just wants to beat you up to death, "just because." There are types of peple who braggs about using deadly violence agaist another, and even more idiots who actually give respect for that. That's their life style.

Those people walk with violence almost with impunity. And, it's not because people don't keep them selves from violence. It's because people do keep themselves from violence when violent response is appropriate.

Have you ever objected to someone cutting in line? Some one did when a women cut into line in a store. She went crazy just for that, and her boyfriend beat the guy putting him in critical medical condition. Just because the guy objected to someone cutting in line.

Some one open up a space for you to merge while driving. You wave a hand at the guy to be nice. The guy thinks you're flipping your middle finger at him and starts a road rage by opening fire at you. You just don't know.

You just don't know what kind of violence will come in what form for what reason. And, there's plenty of people who needs to be shot.

BrainOnSigs
April 23, 2011, 06:23 AM
My father was kidnapped and murdered back in '77. Really bad things happen to really good people every day. I was the victim of an attempted car-jacking last year. The thug decided to move along when he saw a gun in his face at the same time he was putting one in mine. I am no hero. You can have my truck, wallet, etc. I just want to come home safely every night to my wife and kid. That said, I won't rely on the morals and values of some thug not to shoot me after robbing me of my personal possessions.

I have a large safe full of handguns, hunting rifles, AR15s, etc. I enjoy shooting them all.

PabloJ
April 23, 2011, 07:12 AM
I bought one because lot of people where I live seem to have them. Although I despise shooting one can be used in small indoor ranges. If you want to have fun at social events get well fitting shotgun and take up shotgun games like: skeet, trap zz birds,......that is where all the fun shooting happens.

HOOfan_1
April 23, 2011, 09:19 AM
Three words: Dr. William Petit.
And that's just one example. My friend, don't be so naive.

Also Ray Joseph Dandridge and Ricky Javon Gray and Richard McCroskey.

Reasons enough to show that carrying at home is not a wild idea either.

ttheel
April 23, 2011, 10:13 AM
If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it.

You really dont have alot of experience with handguns do you? 25 yards is a long shot with a handgun, especially for the average Joe.

mokin
April 23, 2011, 10:34 AM
They are a lot of fun to shoot.

Animal Mother
April 23, 2011, 10:54 AM
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJJ3WF3rNE

vaherder
April 23, 2011, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Every once in a great while I have a rogue sheep that goes after my dogs and me for no reason
Mtn Creek said
You may need a larger dog. My dog got a wild hair yesterday evening and barrel rolled a 200lb goat!

My herding girl weighs about 42lbs. When a 225lb ram or wether upsets her and is jumping 6ft in the air she has no problem going up in the air and snatching the offender and taking him down. My boys weigh around 55lbs and can do the same.

Its just that every once in while a sheep will decide it wants to hurt my dogs and me. I have learned that its easier to dispose of the offender with a round of 9mm, 30 30 0r.308 then risk the chance of vet bills. I figure I have bout $50k invested in the training of each one of my dogs. A sheep has cost me a couple thousand in vet bills when it took on my dogs. My livestock guardian dogs( Polish tatras that weigh 150lbs+) are not trained and should never have the opportunity to hurt a sheep. They are there to protect them and will go after the herding dogs if they think they are mistreating their flock.

Usmc-1
April 23, 2011, 11:26 AM
I think if you read up on police blotters around the country most firefights are within 7 yards , not 25 and to be clear many of those officers who spend a large amount of time in there car and dont go to the range ,end up getting shot or killed , even at 7 yards , when the officer fired 15 rounds from his Glock and didnt hit anything , he's lucky to be alive , if he had practiced more than the required (once) a quarter , he would have not only had a better chance of hitting the target but killing him as well! Practice makes perfect as they say!

You even say you shoot rifles , would you be able to just point down range at 25 yards, bullseye every shot , nope I didnt think so , I would hold that Sub (2000) real close to my bed if thats your only defense , because at 10 yards or less an intruder will ethier take your 7mm away from you or kill you where you sit , get yourself a 9 or 40 , learn to shoot it and practice just like you do with the rifles and guess what , your ready!

Sam1911
April 23, 2011, 11:38 AM
Sam1911, thank you for your reply. No problem!

Okay lets say i get a handgun for SD and competition-tactical shooting. It would have to meet these requirements. 1. A real safety button.
Ok. Lots fit that criterion.

2. be accurate out to 50 yards.
What does that mean? How accurate? Some 1911s are tuned to be 1.5" accurate from a rest at 50 yds, but you'll pay several thousand dollars for that. Hit a man-sized target at that distance? Most service sidearms will do that if you have the skills. How do you define "accurate out to 50 yds?"

3. have the ability to install a recoil buffer of some kind.
What in heaven's name for? Buffers are grossly unnecessary in all but a few specific and highly debated instances -- and only in the 1911 platform, and only (IMHO) when the user is tweaking it for very specific purposes. Seriously, just forget that one. If you can even find buffers for guns other than 1911s, (and good luck with that) the gun wasn't designed to work with one and you're likely to cause more trouble than you would solve...if there was a problem a buffer COULD solve.

4. Preferably a 9mm caliber. (I shoot 147 grain boat tail Hornady's out 100 yards accurately with my sub 2000 that has a 16" barrel)O.k. But understand that any other gun -- even another sub 2000 carbine -- might favor a different load and/or bullet weight. Buying a handgun based on an assumption that it will like the load your other guns like is probably not a great idea.

Having said that, almost every common service sidearm is available in 9mm, so that's not helping narrow things down.

5. front bottom rail. O.k. Not sure why you want that, if you aren't concerned with defensive purposes. Lights and lasers won't be either legal or at all helpful in any shooting sports I can think of.

Which handgun would you recommend? I really can't make any hard and fast recommendation based on your criteria. There are lots of guns out there that are 9mm, come with a rail, and have an external safety lever. In reality the best thing for you to do is visit a shop with a rental range and try a variety of guns out. See what feels most comfortable to you.

I really like my Springfield xDM, but it has no external safety. A 1911 chambered in 9mm might be just perfect for you (though they have a well-deserved reputation for being troublesome to get to feed), but very few of them come with rails, and they're generally much more expensive than other choices. CZs have an awful lot of dedicated fans (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/by-category/handguns/) and they do offer safeties and light rails. Some of their guns are decocker models and some are DA/SA with the ability to start with the safety on.

The Smith and Wesson M&P line has really taken the shooting sports by storm -- they're accurate and fast, and many folks find them very ergonomic -- and you can order one with an external safety lever now.

Good luck!

Jim NE
April 23, 2011, 12:00 PM
Another reason to own a handgun: Starting in the early to mid 1960's the violent crime rate in America started skyrocketing. It didn't skyrocket because a whole lot of handguns suddenly became available...it skyrocketed because of a new age of "tolerance" and "non-judgemental" thinking started to arise in regards to crime (and countless other socially self-destructive behaviors.) As a result, we saw the emergence of what could truly be called a criminal class.

Some all-knowing Ph.D's decided these members of the criminal class needed to be "understood" and "rehabilitated" (because it wasn't really their fault, you know.) This, of course, only compounded the problem, and by the end of the decade, the crime rate was double what it was at the start. It's gotten worse since then.

Police departments can only do so much to protect people, despite the growing numbers of cops and better technology. The social decline of the last 40 years has put the impetus for personal protection back on the individual, to some degree. This notion may be distasteful to some, but it's reality.

THE GOOD NEWS: After violent crime reached epidemic and record levels in the 1990's because (mostly) of gang activity, many localities/states allowed honest people to carry concealed weapons, and as a result the crime rate is dropping, especially in the last few years. (It's still twice what it was in the '50's and early '60's, though.) Of course, the media scratches it's head and calls the drop in crime "inexplicable", but I think we know better.

The days of a man protecting his family by ONLY having 911 on speed dial are in the past. Well, that's mostly why I own a handgun, anyway.

SifuGun
April 23, 2011, 02:01 PM
Thank You to everyone that replied. It is much appreciated. Please follow the link below to see what my friend Nutnfancy has to say about the subject. If you decide to carry a firearm. For myself I'll just have it handy on my private properties but will not conceal carry because there already to many no carry zones and businesses out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8OK4WdoW0

SifuGun
April 23, 2011, 04:04 PM
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJJ3WF3rNE
Okay, everyone needs to see this video. Great shooting and with a 22. You can even hear the wind , i'd say at least 5 mph. 200 yards , very nice shooting Man.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
April 23, 2011, 04:16 PM
Sheesh, I need to talk myself OUT OF HAVING TO NEED ANOTHER ONE - or I'd be in the poor house for sure!:eek:

I have a 500 Magnum (4" barrel) which I handload for and I use that for deer and black bear hunting! I realize that any shot I take must be within about 60 yards in order to have a well-placed shot, so it makes me a better hunter!

CZ223
April 23, 2011, 04:35 PM
The ranges are already too crowded as it is.:evil:

millertyme
April 23, 2011, 04:37 PM
And if you were held up most people say let them take what they want. So you can get away with your life.

That's pretty naive of you to think this way.

Thorgrim
April 23, 2011, 10:37 PM
So what is the sporting value in a handgun? I see people shoot them tactically and that seems fun. If your target if less than 25 yards out, I think you would have to blind not to hit it. Well, enough said. I like the communities advise on the subject. In other words what is it about handgun shooting that you like? Sincerely, SifuGun.

I hope you'll forgive me if I doubt your sincerity, since your post appears to be aimed at baiting handgun fans. I'll answer anyway, hoping my reaction is wrong and your intention is sincere.

A handgun is just a different tool for a different job, and the skills to use it well are different also. With plenty of "quality rounds downrange" and an active search for training and learning technique, you may be amazed at what a good handgunner can hit; given that, the major concern is the amount of delivered force at the given range. It matters not if the bullet comes from a handgun or rifle, only whether it's on target and how much energy/force it delivers and if that is sufficient for the purpose.

I hope you'll try handgunning, as I think it will change your mind about a lot of things. It's more dependent, in my opinion, on user skill than is long range rifle shooting. Margins of error in trigger control, sight picture, and other technique is slim with a pistol, given a basically accurate handgun, and most of the success resides in the shooter.

Please, try it. Find out if you can shoot one well, and if it's comfortable and enjoyable to you before you make a decision on shooting one for sport or carrying for self-defense. Based on what you stated, I think you're in for a big awakening. A competent handgunner with an accurate gun can hurt you at 200 yards+, because instead of being concerned with "minute of angle", he's trying for "minute of torso" and he'll most likely do it. As to the fun angle, shooting an iron-sighted handgun at 250 yards is more fun than shooting a scoped rifle at 1,000.

Cemo
April 24, 2011, 01:18 PM
+1 on TestPilot's response. That is what is going on in the real world. No, it may never happen to you, but this stuff probably happens to someone in the USA every day of the year. Across the USA there are 8,000 reported home invasions per day. Every two minutes a woman in the USA gets raped and the chances of a woman getting raped in her life time in 1 in 3. You don't need to be paranoid about it, but you shouldn't ignore the possibilities either.

Axel Larson
April 24, 2011, 03:53 PM
I would suggest getting a Glock 17 just so you can share mags with the sub 2000.

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