load data for 9x18 makarov


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Bmac1949
April 22, 2011, 06:32 PM
I just got in my 93gr lrn bulleta form MBC and need some load data for using Bullseye powder. Best I can come up with is 4.0 grains. I was thinking about starting at 3.6gr, then 3.8 and to 4.0. I also heve some Blue Dot that will probably work. Anybody shed any light on this for me. Thanks in advance.

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rfwobbly
April 22, 2011, 06:34 PM
Bullseye is made by the Alliant Powder Co. Go to their web site.

Bmac1949
April 22, 2011, 06:36 PM
OK thanks

Galil5.56
April 22, 2011, 11:09 PM
Bmac,

I use this same Magma Engineering bullet supplied by Mastercastbullets.com (great price of $47.50/1000 shipped) using Bullseye, and to give you some idea of what velocities you might expect, here is what my ProChrono Digital says 3.8 grains of Bullseye gets from my CZ82:

3.8 grains Bullseye 93 grain Mastercast LRN sized .365 CCI 500
1031 1005 1012 1006 1064 AV 1023 ES 59 SD 24

Seems accurate enough so far in my polygonal barrel, with very little powder fouling, and almost zero leading. Decent enough, but the extreme spread/Sd is a bit much. This load pretty closely replicates Russian 95 grain FMJ, and beats the pants off Hungarian made Fiocchi:

Fiocchi Factory 95 grain FMJ RN Made in Hungary
919 899 932 884 963 AV 919 ES 79 SD 30

I do have some 4 grain loads made up and ready to test, and will most likely consider it my max for my particular lot, and other variables. Current Alliant data only lists jacketed bullets, where the older Hercules data just prior to the switch had 100 grain LRN data. Obviously, what I use and work up only pertains to me, and I make no claims how it works for others. That said, I would think 3.4 or 3.6 grains would be a fine place to start

res45
April 22, 2011, 11:24 PM
Haven't tried any Bullseye loads in my PA-63 yet I like 3.5 grs. of W321/HP-38 nice load,cycles with no issues and very accurate at 900 fps. 4.0 grs. same powder is a bit more snappy and get me up to around 1000 fps. My friend Andy shoots 3.5 grs. Bullseye with 95 gr. cast bullets in his CZ-82 MV runs right at 1000 fps. He has also used Power Pistol with same 95 gr. bullet with excellent results.

rcmodel
April 23, 2011, 05:44 PM
Blue Dot won't work.

Not enough case capacity to hold it, or enough pressure to get it to burn.

rc

Bmac1949
April 24, 2011, 08:25 AM
Thanks for the info. I loaded them at 3.6, 3.8, and 4.0 grains of Bullseye with an OAL of
.980". So I'm ready to test them hopefully this afternoon. My bullets came in the mail on Friday. I had ordered 500 Mak and 500 .45 ACP I figure that is about 25 pounds. Walking to the mailbox I noticed it was hanging down in the front. When I opened it up I saw that the mailman had crushed the bullet box and ripped the screws half way out of the base of the mailbox. The bullet box was quite a bit larger than my mailbox and he must have beaten it in there because by the time I finally dragged it out of there it was even worse. I caught him at the mailbox today and told him to expect more of these packages along the way and he agreed to bring them to the door next time. We'll see. He won't get my vote for mailman of the year. Guess I'll need to get the mailbox fixed before I test those rounds.

Galil5.56
April 24, 2011, 09:53 AM
Welcome Bmac. I think you will enjoy using Bullseye, and I won't be surprised to see the 4 grain loads top 1100 fps, maybe 1150+. I have tried/tested 700x, International, WW231, and Power Pistol so far, and have HS-6 and Unique loaded up for testing. So far, WW231 is perhaps my favorite, and really seems a nice fit for 9x18 Makarov with Jacketed and cast. If you might like to try 95 grain 365" Hornady XTP HP's, they expand really well in test media at velocities of 1000-1100 fps. Speer data from #13/#14 really gets the lead out, and even 2/10's grain below their max for WW231/95 grain bullet, I'm getting a very consistent 1094 fps.

I have Blue Dot, and may try to develop some loads out of curiosity, but 9x18 specific data is lacking. Interesting to note, right at the switch over from Hercules and Alliant around 1995, they produced and published .380 Auto data for Blue Dot. This would seem an odd combo, but they did it, with moderate pressures. No doubt 9x18 loads could be developed that would "work" at some level and safely, but there are so many other choices that work so well, I'll stick with them.

Sounds like your carrier is cast from the same mold as mine; LACKING. 1000 Mak bullets weigh about 13 lbs, and fit and are sent for $4.95 in a USPS $4.95 flat rate box from Mastercast... Really great deal on shipping, and only pay what it really costs.

Galil5.56
April 25, 2011, 02:33 PM
Shot some 93 grain Mastercastbullets.com 9mm Makarov cast bullets, using a sufficient charge of Blue Dot to make a pretty consistent 998 fps avg. Powder fouling was extremely minimal, and leading non existent in my Polygon barrel:

This shot was taken a few minutes after the last round of Blue Dot loads, that was the end of five other, five round chronograph test stings using other propellants.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141112&stc=1&d=1303752440

Great results, no issues to report, and 100% as always functioning with a #16 Wolff spring. Definitely VERY doable; actually pretty damn good but not exactly for those who want low charge weights.

Galil5.56
April 30, 2011, 10:13 AM
Bmac1949. Don't know if you saw my results using Blue Dot, and if interested I can Private Message you the specifics... Using Blue Dot in 9x18 Makarov was far from a lost cause in my experience, and absolutely can be used to make up very good ammo based on my actual testing.

These results from "Rocky's Reloading Room", used 105 grain cast bullets and Blue Dot. Shown is his lowest charge weight.

5.9 grains Blue Dot 1062 fps

Although not mentioned in his report, I can tell you from personally casting bullets from a Lee 95 grain "Makarov" mold, actual dropped weights using basically a wheel weight alloy was around 102 grains.

It should also be noted, Accurate Arms has published Makarov data using very "slow" AA#7 with good velocity. Are charge weights low (7 grains+), no, probably "dirty", yes, do they work, ABSOLUTELY. Glad I experimented with the Blue Dot, as I was surprised at how well it worked. Good luck.

joneb
April 30, 2011, 01:05 PM
I've loaded 93gr LRN (.365") for a E.G. Makarov using CCI 500 primers and Bullseye, a COL of .970" worked best in my pistol. With a stock 15 lb recoil spring I loaded 2.7gr to 3.5gr of Bullseye, with a 17 lb spring I've loaded up to 3.8gr but settled on 3.6gr.

I would agree with rcmodel about Blue Dot being a poor choice for a 9x18 Mak straight blow back action. The slowest powder I have used with good results is AA#5.

Steve C
April 30, 2011, 06:29 PM
Here is some data for 9x18 that was published by Alliant in 2004. From their free on line manual.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141371&stc=1&d=1304198919

Bmac1949
April 30, 2011, 08:00 PM
Thanks for all the info. I took the CZ out and shot the loads I made up. The 3.6gr Bullseye didn't do so well but the 3.8 and 4.0gr did pretty well. I made up another 50 rounds using 3.8gr and will try them soon. Couldn't find a lot of brass but what I checked showed no signs of excessive pressure. I'll try and use the chronograph on this batch and will have a better idea as to what pressures I'm getting. An OAL of .980" is woking well as I had no jams or misfires and I'm only crimping enough to take the flair out. So far so good. And yes Galil5.56 if you would PM that data for the Blue Dot loads I'd like to look at it. Thanks againg for the load data and charts.

Galil5.56
April 30, 2011, 08:30 PM
PM on the way Bmac. I chronographed my 4 grain Bullseye loads with 93 grain cast bullets, and got 1075 fps avg using CCI 500's and a COL of .972". I was about 20 ft from the screens for this set, where I am normally about ten because of wet conditions in my yard.

I gotta tell ya, I usually use a very large tarp to try and catch brass, but a lot of times I just use my metal detector with it set to discriminate out Iron, set the power to low, and find the brass in a few minutes... I love it for this and as a hobby itself. Mine is a Radio Shack Discovery 3300, and it paid for itself very soon finding gold/silver/coins and a lot of cool stuff.


http://www.abmetaldetectors.com/acatalog/BHDiscovery3300Image1.jpg

That said, my CZ82 flings a lot less distance with a nice fresh #16 recoil spring, and changed the recoil feel as well. Nice that you can use 9mm brass that might have a slight mouth split and no good, and trim it down to make Mak brass. No waste here.

supergoat343
April 30, 2011, 09:08 PM
I use 3.6 gr of Hogdon 38 with 95gr sierra soft nose. I use trimmed down 9mm parabellum because its available and cheap. Good groups out of my CZ82 but it throws the brass close to 15 yards!

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