Did GOEX change formulations/granulations in their FFg powder?


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MacTech
April 22, 2011, 06:54 PM
I have a tin of "old" Goex FFg that I purchased about eight months ago, and just got around to getting a BP gun to shoot it in recently, the can of "old" Goex has the following datecode on the bottom of the tin;

02-45 09SE16B

and the label on the front of the can says;
GOEX
Black Rifle
Powder
American-made since 1912
The Authentic propellant

and the standard lawyer-speak danger warnings below that

this tin of GOEX has a granulation size like this;
http://gallery.me.com/mactechg4/100018/IMG_3703/web.jpg?
visibly largish grains

the new tin I got has this datecode;
02-50 100C21B

the label reads;
GOEX
Black Powder (the word "rifle" and the powderhorn graphic are removed from the logo)
The Tradition Continues
American Made since 1802

this tin has this granulation;
http://gallery.me.com/mactechg4/100018/IMG_3704/web.jpg?

and together, old on the left, new on the right;
http://gallery.me.com/mactechg4/100018/IMG_3705/web.jpg?

Any ideas? newer formulation? is it normal to have such a discrepancy in granulation between lots?, or is this perhaps FFFg mislabled and packed in an FFg tin?

would loading the new finer granulation in a 80-90 grain charge be problematic for my T/C Black Mountain Magnum?

I did light off a tiny bit of both and they seem to have the same burn/flash rate, if anything, the newer tin leaves less residue behind...

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Bluehawk
April 22, 2011, 07:45 PM
The cap on the left looks like Fg powder...on the right FFg.
Rifles in .58 caliber or so can use Fg powder quite well.

MacTech
April 22, 2011, 10:00 PM
Well, my Black Mountain Magnum seemed to have no issues with the "old" can of powder last week, and if that can is closer to Fg then I guess the new can should do just fine then

I was just concerned that perhaps the new can was mis-filled with FFFg or something

Is it possible to get a pic of the grain size of FFFg and FFFFg so I know what to look for grain size wise?

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
April 22, 2011, 10:28 PM
If nobody else has it, I will take pictures of both Goex FF & FFF and post
it here late tommorrow.

SAA
April 22, 2011, 11:18 PM
If those are macro pictures of the little Goex caps, then yes, I would say you have 2F on the left and 3F on the right.

2F left, 3F right from my cans:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/lookere/DSCF6415.jpg

4v50 Gary
April 22, 2011, 11:43 PM
Bet they mislabeled the can.

zimmerstutzen
April 23, 2011, 04:17 AM
I read somwhere that in some countries the powder granulation classes are the reverse of what we use. Their fg would be our prime powder for flint pans and their 4fg would be our coarsest musket powder. Perhaps a can of powder intended for export?

MacTech
April 23, 2011, 11:39 AM
Yes, those are the Goex caps, so it looks like I have a mislabled can of FFFg...

next questions;

my BP rifle is a T/C Black Mountain Magnum, capable of a max load of 110 grains of 2F, is it safe to use 3F powder in this gun, any advantages or disadvantages to using 3F instead of 2F?

I have one of those adjustable brass powder measures, I'm assuming that since the 3F is a finer granulation that a 80 grain load of 3F would contain more actual powder than a 80 grain load of 2F and therefore be stronger, so how much should I reduce loads when using 3F

how normal is it to have tins mislabled/filled with the wrong powder, should I be checking each tin before I buy it, or is this just a random happening here

ClemBert
April 23, 2011, 12:21 PM
Time to call GOEX (http://www.goexpowder.com/). That's not too good when they mislabel a product that is in the explosive category.

45Fan
April 23, 2011, 01:48 PM
fffg should be fine in your rifle, I believe the reduction is 15%, but its been a long time since i actually looked it up. For many years I have used fffg in my sidelock rifles to promote better ignition. I carried that over when I made the swich to pyrodex, and it has served me well. The last load i used in a CVA bobcat was 80 gr. Pyrodex P under a 50 cal patched roundball.
I cant think of any disadvantage to using 3f in place of 2f, and the biggest advantage I have found is more reliable ignition durring the colder muzzleloader season here in indiana.

ZVP
April 23, 2011, 02:22 PM
I got a batch Goex FFF from Bass Pro's (The onlly place within 75 miles to buy BP) and I think I got either an old batch or maybe just it's a weird batch?
Misfires, slow fires, and a couple cylinders took 3 caps to set the stuff off! Not reliable as it should be
I'd been shooting Substitutes and I kinda got soured on BP till some Old Timers helped me out understanding the stuff...
I am looking forward to shooting a "GOOD" batch of Black Powder to enjoy the shooting fun, but at least I have had a chance to experience a good bit of Substitute shooting which wasn't a bad thing!
I found one "source" up in Jamestown Ca. (about 90 Miles away) to get authentic BP so I need to make a field trip up in the Foot Hills to get some!
It's odd, but here in Central Ca, Black Powder costs more than Substitutes. 777 gets pricey from some Gun Shops cause it's all they carry.
ZVP

MacTech
April 23, 2011, 02:50 PM
Just back from KTP, their resident BP expert, Jim Dill, a longtime BP shooter confirmed that what I have *IS* in fact FFFg packaged in a FFg tin, it IS a mislabeled batch of powder

We had a tin pulled up from the warehouse and it too was labeled FFg but contained FFFg, KTP is pulling that batch number from stock and returning it to their vendor just to be safe

I also called GOEX and left a message in their VM with the lot number and my contact info

I'm gonna keep this tin of FFFg anyway as I want to see how it performs in my rifle

Dave Markowitz
April 23, 2011, 06:29 PM
MacTech, if you'd post the lot number of the mislabeled cans I'd appreciate it. I'd like to post this on my gun club's website once it's confirmed.

Thanks!

MacTech
April 23, 2011, 06:40 PM
It's in my OP, the datecode is;

02-50 100C21B

two cans of GOEX BP that are labeled FFg appeared to have FFFg in them, KTP is checking their inventory as well...

Dave Markowitz
April 23, 2011, 08:05 PM
Ah, missed that. Thanks.

Bluehawk
April 24, 2011, 05:57 AM
I didn't realize the powder was in the Goex caps so it appears I made a mistake...my apologies.

mykeal
April 24, 2011, 06:02 AM
Regarding using 3f vs 2f in your rifle - what caliber is it?

MacTech
April 24, 2011, 09:42 AM
.50 caliber, according to Jim at KTP, 3F should be fine in it, it's what he uses in his .50, he just reduces the load by 15%, as has been recommended here as well

ClemBert
April 24, 2011, 11:47 AM
I had to look up KTP to figure out what you were talking about. Kittery Trading Post? For awhile there I thought maybe it was a competitor to Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) for tree huggers called Kentucky Tofu Poultry (KTP). ;)

SAA
April 24, 2011, 04:51 PM
For awhile there I thought maybe it was a competitor to Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) for tree huggers ...

Just last night my son saw they are changing it to "KGC" (Kentuky Grilled Chicken).:rolleyes::barf:

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