Backwards primer

While i was doing my final inspection i noticed that i had one round that had the primer in upside down. My question is, what would have happened if i didn't catch it and tried loading it up and shooting it?

I dunno. Wanna try it out and give us a report? :evil:

I really have no idea, other than you might get a nasty splash of flaming primer material all over the breech. The round certainly wouldn't fire.

It's just another reminder that we've got to do these kinds of inspections on our loads when we roll our own.

Since the firing pin would be protruding into the dimpled area of the primer anvil the primer would likely not even pop. If it did, the flash hole would be covered up by the primer cup and nothing else would happen. I have never had this happen, so I am not speaking from experience, but logically that is what would take place.

Not to hijack the thread but being a newb. how do you fix this problem? or is the brass and primer now trashed. That is if you use a bullet puller and save the powder.

I would imagine you can just pull the bullet and powder and decap as usual. The primer would not likely pop and could probably be reused. Brass would be fine. If the primer cup deformed from the decap pin, the primer would be the only loss.

I've inserted a primer backwards once. I removed it with the usual decapping procedure with no problem.

In my opinion, there is a good chance the primer would pop if hit by a firing pin but I'm not going to test this theory.

I'd personally use a bullet puller to remove the bullet/powder. Then put the mty case in the decapping die and slowly remove the primer, throw into trash and install a new primer, just like that. Some folks think removing the primer is a casualty waiting to happen, not so, just go easy! Then check each case as its being primed, to make sure of proper seating, etc., make this a judicious process every time.

Not to hijack the thread but being a newb. how do you fix this problem? or is the brass and primer now trashed. That is if you use a bullet puller and save the powder.
Nope, you can save everything. Pull the bullet, dump the powder (don't save it, you may have some residue of other powders in the puller, and you don't want to mix them! Unless it is a collet puller.), and decap/resize the case SLOWLY to push the primer out. Then, seat the primer the right way and you are off to rebuild your round.

Thannks everyone for the help ! ! ! ! !b:)

i know how to dissasemble it i was just wondering what would happen if i didn't see it and tried to fire it.

It would either pop and you'd have some fouling, or it wouldn't and you won't.

Depending on the primer type, pocket uniformity, pin strength, and fates fickle fingerrs you have about the same chance of either one.

Rest assured however, the chance of the bullet discharging are similar in either event: zero.

i know how to dissasemble it i was just wondering what would happen if i didn't see it and tried to fire it.

Witnessed a few and even had one of my own. Always went pop and the anvil usually fell out.

I made that mistake with a .270 round many years ago. I didn't catch it, and the primer did detonate, but without consequence. I couldn't figure out what had just happened until I ejected the round and saw the obvious.

I have used a kinetic bullet puller, but before decapping the primer I always soak it with oil or WD40, it is supposed to deactivate the primer. I am not sure, but it makes me feel a little safer!!

Over the years I have salvaged many rounds with backwards primers. Mostly mistakes by other reloaders that feared taking the rounds apart. When you deprime a live backwards primer do it slooowwly and with even pressure, do not hit it hard with the decapping pin. I have never yet had one go off on me and I have done at least 200+ rounds like these. Also all of them have worked OK when reused as long as the anvil is still in the primer. I would use them for practice rounds only, as a precaution however. If you have an impact puller the advice of not reusing the propellant is a good one, just use it on your lawn as fertilizer.

45Taurus,

Upside down primers happen all the time at IDPA/USPSA matches where 90% of the ammo is reloaded. I've never seen, nor heard of one going pop. Just click, then the shooter tap/racks and continues.

I've picked up hundreds of rounds with upside down primers off the ground over the years. I've never seen one with a popped primer, or a missing anvil.

Koski

I've done it on a 9mm. Bang sounds different lots of smoke. Racked the slide and the round was unaffected otherwise.

I had a backwards primer in factory ammunition s few years ago; didn't realize it after the fact. I chambered it in my 1911, pressed the trigger, and "click". The primer didn't appear to be touched by the firing pin.

It may not always go that way, depending on how far the firing pin extends into the chamber area.

If you decide to decap the reversed primer, be sure to wear eye & ear protection - as always!

Those of you that have witnessed backwards primers pop, what gun (make/model) popped the primer?

Thanks,

Koski

ok thanks guys, i just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to damage my firing pin or any other part of my gun if it had gotten by me.

CZ-75B. Just sounded funny and the slide didn't cycle. Made a lot of smoke though. When I racked the slide, the round popped out like normal and was blackened on back. Didn't take but 0.5 seconds to figure out what went wrong :)

There is a video on Youtube of a guy removing a backwards primer on a press. The primer came out, and didn't pop. There was a small dimple in the primer. The guy in the video said slow and steady pressure was the key. He said that even if the primer popped it was no big deal on a press with a hollow ram.

If it was me, I'd put on the safety glasses and the earplugs before I tried it.

This discussion brings to mind a question. I have two 380 cases I ruined, that still have live primers in them. No way they'll fit in a pistol to pop them that way. I don't really feel good just tossing them in the scrap bucket live. I was wondering if oil or thinner or some other substance would neutralize them.

Contrary to Koski and like soloban, I have seen backwards primers fire with a sharp "Pop" and a puff of smoke out the ejection port. Guns like the 1911 and CZ75 have unlimited firing pin protrusion and will easily reach the anvil.

I have used a kinetic bullet puller, but before decapping the primer I always soak it with oil or WD40, it is supposed to deactivate the primer. I am not sure, but it makes me feel a little safer!!

Safer from what? Taking the round apart with a kinetic pull is not going to make it go off. If these were that dangerous they would be off the market years ago, the lawyers would have seen to that.

Were you using a Lee Turret press?

Yes I remember when it happened. Sometimes media gets stuck between the primer bar and ram on the down stroke while trying to seat the primer. It will bind up and if you back off a little and try to seat again it will somehow flip the primer and seat it upside down.

I've had backwards and sideways primers in 9mm. As was said, just pull the bullet and powder and decap 'slowly'

Always store the loaded cartridges 'nose down' (on your bench) and you're less likely to find out what happens when it's upside down and struck.

Usually, unless deformed etc. even the primers are ok.
Decap slowly, I've reused every one I had without a prob.

put 'em aside, and treat each individually, I've also just simply reclaimed en masse and 0 probs as well.

Go figure.

Jim,

When this happens, has the SO/RO called "STOP" fearing a squib? Has the shooter stopped on their own accord?

Thanks,

koski

Flipped primers in Turret Press

Primer tipping or flipping is usually caused by a burr or nick in the slot of the ram where the primer arm and primer cup pass. This burr catches the primer cup and compresses the spring and when it suddenly snaps free, it causes the primer to tip or flip over.

You will find the burr at the point where the 1/4 " wide primer arm slot on the ram meets with the shell holder slot. Remove this burr with a file. It is easy to get at with the turret removed.

Steve,

Most cases the SO has yelled STOP, fearing a stuck bullet "squib."
Even if he doesn't, since there is no stuck bullet, no harm is done by ejecting the dud and bringing up a fresh round.

Those of you that have witnessed backwards primers pop, what gun (make/model) popped the primer?

Thanks,

Koski
Don't recall, but probably a Wilson Combat or Nighthawk.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/EddieF/Primer.jpg

Boys tis called paying attention, turn off t.v.if you have one in your reloading shack, wait till your friends leave, have wife get the kids if you have any. This way you can pay full attention to what you are doing. If loading a lot take a break. Am 72 years old and not braggin but I have (knock on wood) yet to have a bad load probably happen tomorrow. My dad shot his rite arm off with a shot gun when he was 14 years old and you can imagine how much I have been taught gun safety. Be careful guys shootin is a blast cause I am fortunant to load and walk out side and shoot up to 400 yds every day providing it aint raining. BE CAREFUL:)
Geno

Seems to me that if you decap an inverted primer that the anvil wouldn't have anything to bear against, i.e. it would be very hard to make one pop. I'm just theorizing of course.

To make sure it will not pop, squirt some wd40 on the primer allow to sit for awhile:)

If I am using 100 round plastic ammo boxes, I always load the bullets upside down so I can inspect the primers. If I am using bulk ammo cans/containers, I use a factory ammo tray and inspect the primers before dumping them in the cans/containers.

It's an extra step, but a QC step I have used for years.

Am 72 years old and not braggin but I have (knock on wood) yet to have a bad load

Wish I could say I've never made a mistake, but over the course of 35 years and as many as 50K in a single year, I've FUBAR a few rounds.

As a rule I make only a few minor mistakes. I find that when learning a new cartridge I am apt to make a small mistake or two. After I am comfortable with a load and pay attention, things go well. I also store my primed brass primer up in loading block so I can inspect them and verify that they are indeed empty. Then they go to a different block on the other side of the press after they are filled with propellant. Inspect all in the block with a good light for equal propellant level. Then add your bullet and press in/crimp. Hard to go wrong if you stay focused as others have posted. The old saying "measure 3 times cut once" still applies when quality is desired. Your choice.:D

Pull the bullet, save the powder, deprime the case slowly. Reload case with new primer, powder, bullet and shoot. I always look at the base of the case after priming to make sure it is below flush and inserted correctly. I do not prime on a progressive press.

Thanks Jim & Eddie. Good to know.

Koski