Which .380 pocket pistol under $600 is best and why?


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Capp35
April 23, 2011, 06:58 PM
I pretty much have it narrowed down to five: KP3833, LCP, DB380, 738 TCP and P238.

I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough.

Thanks!

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phrogpilot
April 23, 2011, 07:24 PM
I have owned an LCP for over a year; unlike the KelTec and Walther .380's I've owned previously, I have never had a single failure of any kind, with any ammo, from ball to Critical Defense. Because of my frustrations with the other pistols, I have fired more rounds through the LCP than I normally would have because I wanted to be absolutely certain of its reliability (which in the end is all that matters with a CCW).

Guns and more
April 23, 2011, 07:38 PM
Sig 238.
The recoil is very mild, the slide locks back on the last round, it has real night sights, it looks good, and the slide is easy to rack. It's actually fun to shoot at the range, the LCP is not.
Yesterday, I let a woman shoot my Sig, she loved it, and she's afraid of snappy guns.

Is it a real pocket pistol? I also have a Kahr PM-9 and I agree, it's not a pocket pistol. The dimensions don't vary much to the Sig........but those 1/2" here and 1/4" there really add up once you have it in your hand. Even Sig says it's 1.1" wide, and that didn't seem right, so I measured mine with calipers, it's .8" wide at the widest, the safety.
I guess Sig doesn't read their own specs.
I've carried the Sig in my pocket, although I've now gone to a Seecamp. Now that's small, and well under $600 if you get the .32.

dogtown tom
April 23, 2011, 07:41 PM
Capp35 I pretty much have it narrowed down to five: KP3833, LCP, DB380, 738 TCP and P238.

I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough.

Thanks!
What do you mean by "refined"? :scrutiny:
In my experience customers have returned far more 238's to the factory than all others combined.

The Sig 238 is considerably heavier and larger than the other pocket .380's. In fact it is closer in size to the PM9 you felt was not small enough. The 238 actually outweighs the PM9.

Here is a great comparison chart: http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

2wheels
April 23, 2011, 07:43 PM
Love my Sig P238.

Easy to shoot, accurate, has better sights than most of the competition. And as noted above, a lot less recoil (and therefore more controllable) than a lot of its competition.

And yes, it is a true pocket gun. I usually carry mine in a Galco pocket holster.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
April 23, 2011, 07:55 PM
Don't forget to check out the LW Seecamp .380 Auto!
http://www.seecamp.com/Product380-Large.jpg
http://www.seecamp.com

Capp35
April 23, 2011, 08:04 PM
What do you mean by "refined"? :scrutiny:



I guess by more refined, its more like my other 1911's in fit and finish

Capp35
April 23, 2011, 08:06 PM
Don't forget to check out the LW Seecamp .380 Auto!
http://www.seecamp.com/Product380-Large.jpg
http://www.seecamp.com
Remember I am looking for under $600 so that leaves it out of the running, unless I went with the .32 .

verdun59
April 23, 2011, 09:31 PM
Easy answer from this corner - Kahr P380. It Will fit in your pocket.

Buckweet
April 23, 2011, 09:39 PM
S&W Bodyguard .380 for $349-$369 is worth renting. I did last week (along with the P238). Very different guns, but I did like the way the S&W shoots (the laser is kinda lame - at least the one on my rental gun was). The Sig was very, very nice as well. Gander Mountain regularly sells the Sig P238 with Crimson Trace for $649 and occasionally has it for $599. The next time they put it on sale, I'm tempted to buy it.

Zerodefect
April 23, 2011, 09:56 PM
Kahr p380.

But it is not without it's flaws. Some of the mag bottoms are crimped too loose. And the bottom plates button is not enough to keep the mag bottom on by itsself. If you carry OWB and accidentally rub the mag bottom, it can fall off and spit all your ammo down isle three of Walmart causeing an entire circus of people slipping and rolling around after stepping on said ammo. I tightened that crimp to solve the problem.

Also the mags baseplate has raised edges. This can slow speed reloads when that edge hits the frame. I trimmed that edge back a hair.

After that my Kahr has been flawless on Corbon Powerball. Weaker plinking ammo may cause it to choke a little until it smooths out.

My p380 can hit targets out to 10 yards pretty well if needed. My Keltec p32 couldn't even get close to that range. Dawson offers even better sights if you need them.

The Kahr trigger is really nice. A shorter J frame like trigger. Unlike a J frame or Keltec, you can accurately shoot the Kahr without proper finger placement. If I stick too much finger in, I can still rapid fire the mag empty. I can't do that with the Ruger, Keltec, or a J frame.




I haven't seen the Sig 380 run well at all yet. Lots of warranty send backs. My local shop quit ordering them for now. Glad I didn't buy one.

Ala Dan
April 23, 2011, 10:23 PM
of the KEL-TEC P3AT .380; or the rest of the gang ran and hid in the bushes :rolleyes: :uhoh: ;)

MICHAEL T
April 23, 2011, 11:38 PM
No I with you on the KelTec in 380 or 32 I have 4 great pocket pistols

My 380 has been flawless and loves Corbon DPX

VA27
April 24, 2011, 12:27 AM
Have a look at the Micro Desert Eagle. It's a little larger than the Seecamp and a little smaller than everything else. It's the Czech designed Kevin, license built in the US by Magnum Research. It's a dandy little gun.

PcolaDawg
April 24, 2011, 12:34 AM
I've carried the Kel Tec P3AT and Bodyguard 380. Both of them great, reliable guns, and well under $600.00. The Bodyguard is more ergonomically designed, and the laser is included with the price, and is my favorite pocket gun at the moment, fwiw.

Smaug
April 24, 2011, 12:34 AM
Don't rule out Bersa. They're very accurate, affordable, and reliable. I'd take one over any of those you mentioned. Also, don't forget the Beretta 85 and Walther PPK/S.

gofastman
April 24, 2011, 01:08 AM
I really like the way my TCP shoots (for a mouse gun of course)
The trigger and recoil are pretty good IMO, especially compared to the LCP.
I had 2 or 3 failures to feed in the first 100 rounds or so, but since then its been 100%

jpwilly
April 24, 2011, 01:45 AM
Have two LCP's and they have not had a jam and are accurate for such samall pistols.

chicharrones
April 24, 2011, 01:54 AM
Out of those five, I only have experience with a couple LCPs. Not one bad thing to say about the LCP. It is small, it is light, it is inexpensive, and it shoots well.

kokapelli
April 24, 2011, 10:59 AM
My Micro Desert Eagle is totally reliable but painful to shoot.

My TCP is totally reliable, accurate and recoil isn't bad.

my P3AT is reliable, but a little hard on the hand for extended range sessions.

My son's LCP was similar to the P3AT but did not have as good a trigger as the P3AT.

My Diamondback was a good shooter but I was never able to fire a full magazine through it without a jam.

My P238 is by far the most accurate, has way less felt recoil than the rest, has by far the best trigger, has much better sights than the rest and has been totally reliable. The P238 is as you can see in the photo is significantly smaller than the PM9.

http://ompldr.org/vNGxrbA/238-PM9.gif

By the way, I like the Bersa but when it is recommended as a pocket pistol IMO that is just wrong because it is huge next to most of the pocket 380 pistols. This is my Bersa next to my P3AT.

http://ompldr.org/vYXFo/bersa_3at.jpg

Guns and more
April 24, 2011, 11:08 AM
My P238 is by far the most accurate, has way less felt recoil than the rest, has by far the best trigger, has much better sights than the rest and has been totally reliable. The P238 is as you can see in the photo is significantly smaller than the PM9.

I too have both and agree with you.
If someone asked me, "Is the P-238 a lot smaller than the PM-9?" I would have said "Heck yes, it's WAY smaller."
So I was surprised when the tape measure shows they are pretty close on paper.
But in the real world, there is no comparison. Hold both and you'll see what I mean.
I never considered the PM-9 as a pocket gun, I've carried the Sig in my pocket.
I now prefer the Seecamp, but that's another story.

Usmc-1
April 24, 2011, 11:11 AM
Ive thought about .380's in the past but never bought one , I wouold suppose a Berso ,Kel-tec or CZ is where I'd look !

bannockburn
April 24, 2011, 11:32 AM
While I currently own a Colt Mustang and a KelTec P3-AT, my choice from your list would probably be the SIG P-238. While not as light as one of the polymer framed guns, I think the SA trigger and available sights greatly improve the performance and accuracy potential of this .380 pocket pistol. You might also want to consider the S&W Bodyguard .380 as well.

Dr. Leaky
April 24, 2011, 11:33 AM
My choices narrowed down to the LCP or the BG380 and I took the Smith & Wesson mostly because or ergonomics and the much better sights. No regrets at all - really a fine little pistol.

Gun Geezer
April 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
Have a look at the Micro Desert Eagle. It's a little larger than the Seecamp and a little smaller than everything else. It's the Czech designed Kevin, license built in the US by Magnum Research. It's a dandy little gun.
Agreed. I like mine very much. Though it is a tad heavy.

PabloJ
April 24, 2011, 01:34 PM
I should think sub $350 5-shot S&W 37-2 DAO pocket revolver is far superior to any "$600" pocket pistol. I would not trust any of those "mouse" guns.

Cemo
April 24, 2011, 01:36 PM
I carried a 100% reliable Mustang PocketLite for 15 years as a CCW, or backup CCW. I loved it, IMO it was the best thing out there at the time for small/compact/lightweight CCW. I bought a Ruger LCP in 09' and fell in love with the compactness, 100% reliability and the fact that it had a double action trigger (I always carried the Mustang with a round chambered and hammer down). After six months of carrying the LCP, the Mustang was traded off to support the wife's desire for a Ruger SP101. After 40 years of CCW, I prefer the safety of a double action pull for my concealed carry handguns that I carry in a pocket or IWB carry. With the one exception of the 1911's.

reppans
April 24, 2011, 01:40 PM
I may have to look into that Sig....

I was between the Kahr P380 and LCP. The Kahr sounded like lots of people were having problems so I went with the LCP. I'm not too impressed - a jam and light primer strike in 150 rounds, and I can easily shoot my G26 more accurately at 25 yds vs the LCP at 25 ft. Build quality ain't quite there either.

Capp35
April 24, 2011, 05:34 PM
Keep the recommendations coming.

Our largest gun show of the year is in two weeks!

Big_John1961
April 24, 2011, 09:15 PM
I have the P238, P380 & LWS 380 and the Rohrbaugh 380 will be here this week, so I'll leave that one out for now

The Seecamp is a great little pistol and smaller than any other .380 out here. It is a handful to shoot, but it's not designed as a range gun. I feel very comfortable carrying one and it's been 100% reliable for me. A true pocket pistol of impeccable quality.

I have mixed feelings about the P238 & P380, both of which I purchased in the last three weeks. The Sig feels fantastic in the hand and I was immediately smitten with it in the store. It's also by far the easiest shooting .380 I've tried. My problem with it is that over the first 220 rounds I've put downrange I've had 7 stoppages, all but one of them FTE's. It may not sound like much, but it makes it hard for me to fully trust it as a carry piece. It may have to go back to Sig, not sure yet.

The Kahr is a gun I really want to like. Great size and weight, rugged, pretty easy shooter, and it's thinness really lends itself to pocket carry. BUT, like the Sig, the first 150 rounds I put through it resulted in 15, yes 15, stoppages, all involving the slide locking back with rounds still in the magazine.

Needless to say, I'm very disappointed. It does not have the requisite 200 break-in rounds through it yet, but I don't see how that would fix this particular issue. It may have to go back to Kahr also. Other than that, I love it. :D

That's my input.

camper
April 24, 2011, 09:34 PM
Khar P380. Great pistol and can be had with night sights for under $600.00. I've had the slide lock back a couple of times, but it was usually because my right thumb was to high and hit the slide lock. 700 rounds through mine.

lono
April 24, 2011, 10:09 PM
I tried a S&W bodyguard 380, that pistol simply does not work, better off throwing it at bad guy. After having it a week, I went back to the gun store and picked up a PPK/S, took it shooting for the first time today and it runs perfectly. Both the bodyguard and the PPK/S are accurate. The bodyguard is much lighter but I have no doubt that the PPK/S is a better built pistol.

My mother also carries a Kel-Tec 32 acp. It is a much better gun than I expected, I prefer a larger caliber but it goes bang every time, looks like a total piece of crap but works very well.

Aristides
April 24, 2011, 10:43 PM
I bought a Sig P238 over a year ago, had numerous malfunctions, sent it back to Sig, they said they fixed it, but I had to send it back again, they sent me a new one, still had problems, they worked on it, still had problems, but not as many, then they finally sent me the new flat spring. Suddenly, poof, all the problems went away.

I've shot about 200 rounds since I got the new spring, can't make it malfunction, no matter what I do. I've tried to intentionally limp-wrist, I've tried multiple types of ammo, shot it right-handed, left-handed, both-handed. Rapid fire, slow fire. Clean, dirty. I do put a drop of MiliTec oil on the rails on my next-to-last clip of each range session, so the heat of firing will help "bake it in".

Based on what Sig Customer Service told me, it is the new flat spring that is making the difference. But the MiliTec is probably helping some, too. In any case, my P238 is now totally reliable.

Scott at Sig told me that pistols dated Dec 2010 or later (on the box) will be the ones that have the latest "fixes" and should be good to go.

My P238 is always in my pocket, 24/7. I'm thinking about getting a second one for IWB on those days when my 9mm or 357 mag aren't suitable. The 238 is very pleasant to shoot, amazingly accurate for it's size, and disappears in my pocket.

stevolene
April 25, 2011, 01:43 AM
seems to me if its a carry weapon your gonna lose it no matter the circumstances if the weapon has to be used. Personally, I dont want to have to give up a 600 gun, therefore id choose the keltec or the LCP, both can be had under 300 and they both shoot well for what they are, the bersa is too big for a pocket pistol jmo

RidgwayCO
April 25, 2011, 02:04 AM
I'd recommend a Bersa .380 CC for about $250, and spend the rest of the $600 on ammunition and a nice holster. And save your brass, because you ARE going to want to start reloading, what with the cost of .380 Auto commercial ammo today...

I'm3rd
April 25, 2011, 02:20 AM
I was first attracted to the Keltec pocket pistol line by their tiny size, ultra-light weight, and low price. But after reading about all the problems owners were having with KTs in general I put off buying any of the new generation of tiny .380 pocket pistols until they were on the market long enough for the more serious bugs to have been worked out. After Keltec introduced the 2nd generation P3AT I decided to take a chance on it, and if it turned out to be unreliable and/or easily breakable I would take a loss and trade it in on a more expensive gun of the same size and as close to the same ultralight weight as possible.

Well, I can now say I'm glad I waited and ended up with a KT P3AT after all the months of hand-wringing and head-banging over which gun of that type to buy. First time out on my backyard range I had one stovepipe, (2nd round of the first magazine I fired) with the HydroShoks I intended to carry. After that one malfunction it has been 100% perfect with everything I have fed it. After the rest of the Hydroshoks were used up it was fired mostly with my usual .380 handloads of 3.2 grains of WW231 under various 98 & 100 grain lead bullets, some round nose, some conical flat nose That's what I have always loaded for recreational shooting in my Russian-built Makarov IJ70 .380. After about 225-250 rounds fired (I didn't keep an exact count) the pint-size Keltec has gotten better in every respect except for the simply awful trigger pull. Actually the long and heavy trigger pull is a good safety feature on a tiny gun meant specifically for pocket carry, and since that's exactly what I bought it for I can put up with the trigger pull and the less than impressive overall workmanship. Bottom line, the KTs aren't hi-polish, famous name, glass-case trophy getters, but if mine continues to perform as well as it has so far it will fill the always-armed hideout role I bought it for at 1/2 the price of a more prestigious gun of that type. There are several of those out now that are no doubt built to a higher standard of fit and finish, such as Kahr, S&W, Sig, Ruger, whatever. However, if I can prove to my own satisfaction that I can carry the little Elcheapo .380 in my left side pocket 16/7 comfortably and 100% unnoticeable, and that it will reliably go bang 6 times in a row if it's ever needed, (and I now believe it will) it will have turned out to be just what I was hoping it would be.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
April 25, 2011, 02:45 AM
Since the Seecamp does not fall into the under $600 category, I would have to rate the Ruger LCP as the next one to consider.

I have put at least 500 rounds of varying factory ammo, different makers, different bullets, and even shot many loads, working up an accurate load, and the gun did not jam once.

So, I would have to say that my LCP is about as trustworthy as a gun can be.

I have a Robert Mika pocket holster which decreases printing and also prevents lint from gathering in the gun's cracks-crevesis.

baylorattorney
April 25, 2011, 02:45 AM
For accurate shooting, not to mention convenient tip up barrel I had a blast with my Beretta 380 cheetah. Packed a punch. For really concealable back up type gun I liked my NAA Guardian with CtC laser grips but wouldn't bet my life on it.

If I bought one today it would be the economical kel tec. Too many people agree on that pocket rocket.

CZF
April 25, 2011, 03:29 PM
My MDE Kevin pistol has run superbly so far.

however, like most Czech firearms, it remains a bit heavy for front pocket carry.

The LCP with laser is lighter.

doorman
April 25, 2011, 04:36 PM
Picked up a BG 380 back in March. I have run about 400 rounds through it with no problems. I like th laser in that it does what it is designed to do although took getting use to the activation. I am really impressed with it's accuracy.

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx326/ruzick/photo1.jpg

Got this at Gander Mountain originally priced at $379. The guy took off $70 to close the deal.

Couldn't be happier.

lono
April 25, 2011, 06:16 PM
What brand of ammo are you using?

snooperman
April 26, 2011, 01:46 PM
they are both very reliable. Because of the CCW laws around the country over the past few years, manufacturers have given us some great pocket guns to choose from in this caliber. Also the ammo companies have given us some great choices that we did not have many years ago , that make this caliber a very good CCW.

Ben86
April 26, 2011, 02:06 PM
The Kahr p380 is the best .380 pocket gun IMO.

If you liked the PM9, but thought it was just too big and heavy this is your gun. I know what you mean about the pm9, while it can be used for pocket carry, it isn't ideal. There just usually isn't enough room in the pocket for that gun and my hand at the same time, which results in a sluggish draw.

MtnSpur
April 26, 2011, 02:13 PM
Another vote for the Bersa. I have a Bersa Thunder (model 95) .380 and it's been reliable, POA is excellent and takedown for cleaning is throwing a lever, your slide comes off and there ya have it. It's an excellent weapon for the price. Hides very very well in a Don Hume OT I might add.

PX15
April 26, 2011, 05:07 PM
LCP....

My first requirement in a carry firearm is RELIABILITY..

Between my wife and myself we have 3 LCP's, all have been absolutely reliable from day one.

If you care to research the reliability of the Ruger LCP, just use the "search" function on any firearms forum and I believe you will find reliability is pretty much a given with this pistol.

IF you can carry a slightly larger pistol I would suggest you consider the Ruger LC9.. I refer to it as the LCP on steroids.. My LC9 has also been absolutely reliable right out of the box.

I have never understood those firearm manufacturers who tell you that it's necessary to shoot 200 (or whatever) rounds thru any particular pistol before it can be considered reliable..

What if it works perfectly for 200 rds and on the next round it jams?

If any pistol/revolver I buy shoots reliably and accurately right out of the box I have confidence in it. IF any pistol/revolver I buy does NOT prove reliable AND accurate for self defense purposes right out of the box I NEVER have confidence in it.

I've considered the other options in this ever-crowded 380 cal. mousegun nitch, but apparently most of them are not quite ready for "prime-time", or worthy of consideration because of one factor or another, and reliability problems is one area where I have a zero tolerance level.

The Ruger LCP is obviously a KelTec P3AT "clone" that has been "smoothed out", and prettied up a bit.. Perhaps any teething problems were already found and corrected in the P3AT, and that's why LCP's are normally so reliable.

Don't know, but I know I trust MY LCP's, and carry one in a back pocket holster daily.

No offense to those who have a different opinion. One of us is probably wrong, and you gotta' know it's not me. :))

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2114.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2502.jpg

Ledgehammer
April 26, 2011, 11:41 PM
Can you pocket carry the lc9 pretty easy?

Yo Mama
April 26, 2011, 11:49 PM
Keep the recommendations coming.



My recommendation is to ditch the pocket 380. Please man, don't get it. You'll regret it.

1. Cost of 380 ammo, it's rediculous
2. Vs. a 9mm, you're not going to notice much of a size or weight difference
3. 9mm platform gives you increased velocity and energy

Keltec pf9 is a great gun. You'll save some cash getting it, and have money for some accessories.

IN THE END: I love my pocket gun, but don't carry it anymore :(. IWB is my preference, and you can IWB a .45 without much difficulty in most any clothing.

I'm really just keeping it for my kiddo when she's big enough-more a future purse gun.

Capp35
April 27, 2011, 12:20 AM
My recommendation is to ditch the pocket 380. Please man, don't get it. You'll regret it.

1. Cost of 380 ammo, it's rediculous
2. Vs. a 9mm, you're not going to notice much of a size or weight difference
3. 9mm platform gives you increased velocity and energy



I already have a great carry 9mm, a Springfield EMP 9mm.

I am looking for a backup / throw in your shorts last minute, to go to the store type of gun. Small, light, cheap!
Also something not too expensive that I could keep in my truck (as backup) and not have to worry if it got stolen or lost.

I would even consider a Seecamp .32 since they have bottomed out in price, if I did not worry about carrying that cartridge.

rooster59
April 27, 2011, 01:02 AM
Hi-Point. None of the others are even close.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/images/380_polymer.jpg

Barrel length: 3.5"
Overall length: 6.75"
Weight: 29 oz.
Frame: High-impact polymer
Finish: Black powder coat with chrome rail
Capacity: 8-shot magazine standard (10-shot magazine also available)
Sights: 3-dots, fully-adjustable

Polymer frame
Durable, attractive easy-grip finish
Last round lock open
Quick on-off thumb safety
Operations safety sheet
+P rated
Free extra rear peep sight
Free trigger lock
Lifetime warranty
100% American-made, parts and assembly

StrikeFire83
April 27, 2011, 01:10 AM
I already have a great carry 9mm, a Springfield EMP 9mm.

I am looking for a backup / throw in your shorts last minute, to go to the store type of gun. Small, light, cheap!
Also something not too expensive that I could keep in my truck (as backup) and not have to worry if it got stolen or lost.

I would even consider a Seecamp .32 since they have bottomed out in price, if I did not worry about carrying that cartridge.

I know you want a .380, but I'm gonna echo what the other guy said and unless you have a stable of .380s that you need to keep ammo around for, why add another caliber? I used to own a P3AT and I carry my Kahr PM9 daily. There are VERY FEW situations where you can't pocket carry PM9 but you can pocket carry a P3AT, very tight emo skinny jeans/cowboy wranglers or very lightweight shorts. Other than that, a PM9/CM9 will fit in pretty much any front pocket that a P3AT will.

Twiki357
April 27, 2011, 03:37 AM
Okay, I’ll through another one into the works here. I’ve been carrying a Llama Micro-Max (Basically a miniature 1911) for the last 8+ years now. It’s been totally reliable, but is a little finicky with HP ammo.

exavid
April 27, 2011, 03:53 AM
My carry guns are a LCP and a Taurus 740 .40 caliber when I want more punch. Both have been totally reliable on factory ammo and my reloads. I tend to carry the LCP most of the time because of it's smaller size and weight. It took me quite a while to get the hang of accurate shooting with the LCP. Once I learned to ignore the sights and aim by sighting over the top of the slide it became much easier to get decent groups. I've put about 800 rounds of factory and reloads through the little mousegun without a problem.

Capp35
April 27, 2011, 11:50 AM
STRIKEFIRE83
I know you want a .380, but I'm gonna echo what the other guy said and unless you have a stable of .380s that you need to keep ammo around for, why add another caliber? I used to own a P3AT and I carry my Kahr PM9 daily. There are VERY FEW situations where you can't pocket carry PM9 but you can pocket carry a P3AT, very tight emo skinny jeans/cowboy wranglers or very lightweight shorts. Other than that, a PM9/CM9 will fit in pretty much any front pocket that a P3AT will.



Thanks for the info, but if you read earlier in this thread (a lot of posts), I said I had sold my PM9 black diamond because I considered it to big. If you can find me one smaller than the PM9 that meets my criteria, I am listing.

In fact my PM9 was listed here in the classifieds. :)

RB98SS
April 27, 2011, 12:33 PM
Micro Desert Eagle, $299 at CDNN. Pg. 20

http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2011-1/index.html

baylorattorney
April 28, 2011, 06:58 PM
+1 for llama

OregonJohnny
April 28, 2011, 08:15 PM
Out of my 6 semi-auto handguns, my Ruger LCP is 1 of only 3 that have had no problems at all in hundreds of rounds. The other 2 are my Kahr CW9, and my XD40sc. It's a fantastic "all-day, every-day" pocket gun. I trust it 100%.

dogtown tom
April 28, 2011, 09:02 PM
Capp35

Thanks for the info, but if you read earlier in this thread (a lot of posts), I said I had sold my PM9 black diamond because I considered it to big. If you can find me one smaller than the PM9 that meets my criteria, I am listing.

For some reason when you ask for recommendations for a gun "smaller than X" you will get thirty posts recommending a gun LARGER than "X".

"Recomendations" in this thread that are bigger/fatter/heavier than the OP's former PM9:
Bersa
Beretta 85
Walther PPK/S
S&W J frame revolver
Hi Point (hopefully in jest)
Llama MicroMax

All may be fine firearms but the OP specifically asked for smaller than the PM9.:scrutiny:

baylorattorney
April 28, 2011, 09:12 PM
For some reason when you ask for recommendations for a gun "smaller than X" you will get thirty posts recommending a gun LARGER than "X".

"Recomendations" in this thread that are bigger/fatter/heavier than the OP's former PM9:
Bersa
Beretta 85
Walther PPK/S
S&W J frame revolver
Hi Point (hopefully in jest)
Llama MicroMax

All may be fine firearms but the OP specifically asked for smaller than the PM9.:scrutiny:

The reason being, for me anyway, is I read the title alone and answered.

Capp35
April 28, 2011, 11:20 PM
Well unless there are any more suggestions, I am down to two in the running.

P238... Fun shooting, great trigger, higher craftsmanship, bad rep for reliability, a little bigger/heavier.

LCP.... light/small, cheap, not as fun to shoot/trigger, great rep for reliability.

Need to decide................

MSC
April 28, 2011, 11:39 PM
Back to your original post....

"I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough."

IMO the P238 isn't a "true pocket gun" - little too big, little too heavy. An LCP will hide in normal, even snug fitting jeans. It won't sag and sway in a pair of nylon running pants. That's my definition of a true pocket gun - ANY pocket.

In addition, if the PM9 was too big, I don't see that the P238 is much better.

Seems like an easy choice to me.

BTW - I've owned 2 LCP's and they both function flawless. No, not a fun range gun, but most fun guns won't travel everywhere with you, either. No one gun for everything ;)

kokapelli
April 29, 2011, 09:50 AM
Back to your original post....

"I know the P238 is the most refined of the five, but is it a true pocket gun?
I just got rid of my PM9 because it was not small enough."

IMO the P238 isn't a "true pocket gun" - little too big, little too heavy. An LCP will hide in normal, even snug fitting jeans. It won't sag and sway in a pair of nylon running pants. That's my definition of a true pocket gun - ANY pocket.

In addition, if the PM9 was too big, I don't see that the P238 is much better.

Seems like an easy choice to me.

BTW - I've owned 2 LCP's and they both function flawless. No, not a fun range gun, but most fun guns won't travel everywhere with you, either. No one gun for everything ;)
Yes the P238 is a true pocket gun and is significantly smaller than the PM9 as you can see in the picture of my PM9 and my P238 side by side that I posted earlier in this thread.

If the additional weight bothers you than maybe a P3AT, LCP, or maybe a TCP would be better for you.

By the way I don't know why the TCP is ignored so much in these threads because IMO it is superior to either the LCP or the P3AT.

PX15
April 29, 2011, 10:31 AM
koka:

Respectfully, I would suggest that the TCP is ignored because it is NOT superior to either the LCP or P3AT in the minds of most gun owners who are searching for the perfect cc firearm choice.

I have three Ruger LCP's.. One travels in my back pocket every time I leave the house, and each one has been absolutely reliable (JOB 1), surprisingly accurate at self defense range, and actually very light and concealable..

How can the TCP be any better than that?

I believe I am correct in saying that the only two negatives you ever hear about the Ruger LCP are:

1.. Long trigger pull.
2.. Iffy external sights.

You seldom ever hear a complaint about the reliability, or accuracy, or ease of concealment, or any other criticism..

Well, in my experience the LCP does have a long trigger pull..

That works for me thank you, because it precludes an unintentional discharge and reduces the chances I'll shot myself in the left butt cheek withdrawing it in a crisis.

The LCP external sights are "iffy"..

But the LCP is not a range gun.. It is not a target pistol. It is designed specifically as a close up and personal self defense gun.. Or, in a confrontation the owner will pull the LCP point it at center mass of the target and pull the trigger until the threat is neutralized, or you hear a series of clicks indicatiing all 7 rounds have been fired.

If you have fired all 7 rounds in your defense and the threat is not neutralized, this would be an excellent time to run like hell...

But, IF you want better external sights, simply have the Innovative Arms upgrade and you have excellent, unncessary, but nice to have, external sights.

Even better, forget about external sights entirely and simply add the fine Crimson Trace Laser... Relatively inexpensive ($150?) to buy, and works perfectly..

You can buy a cc pistol made of higher "quality" parts.. You can buy a more expensive cc pistol.. You can buy a smaller cc pistol.. You can buy a more "desirable" cc pistol.

I know, I have one.

It's the very desirable and hard to find Seecamp LWS380.

But the truth is, for me, with the exception of being extremely small, I prefer the LCP for daily carry, and the external sights and laser are just icing on the cake..

I carry my Ruger LCP in a back pocket holster. I have absolute confidence that it will offer me as much personal protection in a small caliber pistol as you can buy, and will be as reliable and accurate and functional as ANY other pistol in it's "nitch".

No way the TCP can top that..

I'm not suggesting the TCP is not a very good firearm, I'm sure it is. But I am suggesting that sales alone indicate it simply is not "seen" as desirable as the Ruger LCP, or the Keltec P3AT from which it was cloned by the average person looking to buy a small concealed carry pistol.

I believe the Ruger LCP at $275.00 (+tax) offers as much mousegun as you can buy, NO MATTER THE PRICE but there are MANY other choices out there, including the TCP you value so highly, and none of them are bad choices as long as they are absolutely reliable, self defense accurate, and can be easily concealed on your person.

No offense to you, just conversin', not confrontin'..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. Perhaps the next time we can have a conversation about how the Ruger LC9 @ $365.00 (+tax) has relegated my previous iwb holster cc 9MM pistol of choice ($750.00 P2000sk) to the gun safe....

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2114.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2502.jpg

kokapelli
April 29, 2011, 10:35 AM
PX15 you haven't shot a TCP have you?

Friendly, Don't Fire!
April 29, 2011, 11:07 AM
For those who say do not get the .380 because of "expensive ammo," or "hard-to-find" ammo, remember, a defense gun needs to be reliable and does not need to be shot every weekend once it is determined to be a reliable carry gun and the shooter knows just how it shoots on paper. In fact, the smallness of the LCP makes it great for concealment, however it would not be the kind of gun I would take to the range for an afternoon of shooting!

To tell someone NOT to buy the LCP for those reasons, in my opinion, does not make sense.

I have a fair amount of ammo for my LCP, about half which is factory and the other half which is rolled by me. I have put about 500 rounds of at least 15 different makes and flavors of ammo through that gun and it never had a problem with any of it - with the gun both clean and very dirty!

I have total confidence that my LCP with Crimson Trace will shoot as expected, every time. That is more than I can say for some other guns out there.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
April 29, 2011, 11:17 AM
Hi-Point. None of the others are even close.

I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of size and weight of that vs. the LCP.

PX15
April 29, 2011, 12:20 PM
koka:

Nope, and never will..

Here's why..

It's made by Taurus.

In past decades I've only owned two pistols made by Taurus.. A new PT22, which was a pos right out of the box. I also bought a used 9MM Taurus PT92? (whatever the Taurus clone of the Beretta used by the military is). It never functioned for me to my satisfaction.

I have read a zillion posts by Taurus owners on the various firearm forums complaining about the "lifetime warranty" offered by Taurus.. How poor it is, and how often a firearm returned to Taurus for warranty repair comes back, a long, long time later, still unrepaired.

The truth is I'm prejudiced against Taurus firearms, and just don't want one.. I'm the same way about Beretta as I had a new Tomcat that was absolutely a piece of crap, and had to be returned to the factory TWICE and blessedly was stolen in transit back the 2nd time and I was reimbursed by insurance. The folks at Beretta were absolutely asses, and I swore to never buy another firearm with Beretta enscribed on the barrel.

Now..

I know that Taurus and Beretta make some fine firearms. And I know that every manufacturer makes a lemon now and then. But both of the Tauri I had were sub-standard, and I just don't want any more, and I wouldn't deal with Beretta CS again on a bet.

No accounting for prejudice, it's just "what it is", but the reason I DO like Rugers is because I've had a pile of Ruger rimfire rifles, pistols and revolvers, centerfire pistols & revolvers since the early 1970's with nary a bad one in the bunch.

Or, 4 decades of excellence in the Rugers I've owned has made me a Ruger fan, and so far, my 3 LCP's and one LC9 have done absolutely nothing to change that.

I'm sure there is someone on this forum reading this post who has had the precise opposite experiences as I have, and that person loves Taurus and hates Ruger.. Just the way it goes.

EVERY Ruger firearm I've ever owned has been excellent.. That history of satisfaction with Ruger firearms keeps me coming back for more.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start a Ruger vs Taurus argument, nor offend you personally, as I only have my personal experience to draw from. I'm just telling you why I won't buy the Taurus TCP, or any other firearm made by Taurus..

But, look at the bright side..

That leaves one more TCP for someone who does appreciate the firearms made by Taurus.

Again, no offense, just conversin', not confrontin'.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

sharpie414
April 29, 2011, 03:34 PM
My recommendation is to ditch the pocket 380. Please man, don't get it. You'll regret it.

1. Cost of 380 ammo, it's rediculous
2. Vs. a 9mm, you're not going to notice much of a size or weight difference
3. 9mm platform gives you increased velocity and energy

Keltec pf9 is a great gun. You'll save some cash getting it, and have money for some accessories.

IN THE END: I love my pocket gun, but don't carry it anymore :(. IWB is my preference, and you can IWB a .45 without much difficulty in most any clothing.

I'm really just keeping it for my kiddo when she's big enough-more a future purse gun.
could not have said it better.

although in this case it looks like he has a good iwb 9mm.

go with the lcp/p3at. i own a p3at and have put about 500 rounds through it since purchased with no problems; my best friend just bought an lcp and has about 300 rounds through it with no issue.

I also use the belt clip instead of a pocket holster...i just dont like stuff in my pockets.

adrianbaxter1807
April 29, 2011, 03:59 PM
The Sig 238 for me is the most comfortable pocket .380.
Great trigger and easy sights. Light weight and actually
feels very secure!

Capp35
April 29, 2011, 04:19 PM
Does Ruger make a LCP/Crimson trace package?
Any idea what the going price is?

PX15
April 29, 2011, 06:54 PM
Capp35:

Don't know if there is an LCP model w/CT, but you can buy the CT Laser for the LCP (LG431) online at many places for around $150.00. Putting it on the pistol is a piece of cake, make any adjustments necessary (windage/elevation) with the small hex screws that are supplied and you are "good to go"..

Ebay generally has good prices. Also, you can go to the dedicated LCP forum (www.elsiepea.com) and vendors there have competitive prices.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

jl1288
April 30, 2011, 02:04 AM
I bought my wife the LCP, down here .380 has been pretty hard to find especially hp loads, so all it's been fed has been reloads. It would not function with unique, or blue dot. I tried bullseye, and win 231 next and it gobbled up 300rds without any problems. That was with 100gr Berry's plated. She also ran 100rds of 90gr xtp's not one hiccup.
Only complaint would be the sights.

catnphx
April 30, 2011, 02:55 AM
If I remember, the P238 is a single action gun and I would not be in favor of using a SA for CCW. I'd want DAO for CCW. For me, that issue right there would put the LCP (which is DAO) in front for good.

Good luck on your decision.

exavid
April 30, 2011, 03:00 AM
I had a Taurus TCP and actually liked it better than the LCP I now have. I would have kept it but it had a major mechanical failure. I returned it to Taurus and they replaced it at my request with the PT740 Slim I now have. The problem with the TCP was most likely a fluke, I haven't seen anyone on a forum having a similar problem and up 'til it occured the TCP was a reliable, accurate gun with a better trigger than the LCP and came with two magazines.

Capp35
April 30, 2011, 12:30 PM
If I remember, the P238 is a single action gun and I would not be in favor of using a SA for CCW. I'd want DAO for CCW. For me, that issue right there would put the LCP (which is DAO) in front for good.

Good luck on your decision.
I love my single action 1911 (Springfield 9mm EMP) for CCW. Carried in a VM-2 IWB holster.
But thats just me.

I'm not sure though if I want a single action though, that would be carried in the pocket.

Capp35
April 30, 2011, 12:33 PM
I kind of like the plated LCP. It would match my other stainless pistols.

Anyone know how they wear compared to the blued model?

Also weren't there some recalls on the LCP?
What were they and when did they revise?

Thx!

gym
April 30, 2011, 01:18 PM
LCP is in my pocket now, When I leave home i take either my glock 26 or my PF-9 or the 740 slim, If I go out late or into a bad area like down into certain areas of ft lauderdale or Miami, my Glock 30 goes. I always carry 2 guns, reloading takes time, I can pull my lcp wlile still firing if necessary or give it to my wife, she won't carry. To answer your question, there is no Best anything. Evaluate the concensus, try the guns out, and make your decision, it would suck if the perfect gun was $601.00. Right. Most of the guys in here like the lcp that should tell you enough to put it at the top of your list. The sig is a different weapon DA/SA . It must be carried hammer back safety on, like a 1911, my gunstore competition shooter carries a 1911 and the little sig, They both operate the same, he's a smart kid.

CZ223
April 30, 2011, 05:14 PM
and will probably end up buying a third for the wife as soon as she gets her permit again.

exavid
April 30, 2011, 11:50 PM
The LCP is an interesting pistol. When I first got mine I thought it was a dog. Lousy trigger and couldn't hit the wall if I was indoors. After enough practice I can see the trigger isn't bad at all, just takes getting used too. Long pull but a clean break. Makes sense on a gun with no safety, you aren't going to accidently pull the trigger. Once you get used to it there's no difficulty pulling the trigger smartly to the break point. Accuracy is quite good once I got the sight picture that works for me. For less than $300 this pistol is well made, and mine has been perfectly reliable.

Capp35
May 1, 2011, 11:31 PM
Anyone have an answer on my "wear" and recall info on the LCP question?

exavid
May 2, 2011, 12:29 AM
I can't tell you anything about wear, I have a blued finish LCP and have only been carrying it for six months or so. I can't say that I mind holster wear on any weapon, it's just what happens if you carry one. I don't think of a firearm as a museum piece, I think of them as a tool. If you use a tool there will be some wear but the only real important property of a tool is whether it works. The LCP has pretty well proven itself to be a highly reliable pistol. If you practice and know how to handle it, it's a very accurate pistol. Add to that it's very small size and light weight and you have an excellent concealed carry gun.

In regards to the recall: http://www.ruger.com/LCPRecall/index.html?r=y
Pretty well says it all.

PX15
May 2, 2011, 10:57 AM
Capp35:

I have found that the slide on the LCP will wear with daily use. My first LCP did have a little slide wear when I sent it off to IA for the night sight/slide refinish.

The IA finish is nice, comparable to the factory finish that came on it, but it too is starting to show minimal wear where the slide rubs against the rear pocket holster.

So, I'd say if a bit of slide wear is unacceptable to you then you might want to shop around a bit and buy an LCP with the chrome slide. (My Buddy did that)..

I think in one of your previous posts you mentioned that RELIABILITY is a given with the LCP (and so far my 3 have been) and coming from an old fart who has carried a concealed firearm for over four decades I'll tell you....

RELIABILITY it JOB 1 in a self defense pistol, and potential for slide wear is wayyyy down my list of priorities... :)

Heck, you can always get a slide refinished, but you don't generally get "do overs" in a life threatening situation where RELIABILITY is demanded..

Just personal opinion,

Jesse

Capp35
May 2, 2011, 04:13 PM
So true!

But I keep my tools at home clean, shiny and organized.
I guess I am a little anal. :D

Not as worried with a $300 pistol (LCP, etc) as I would be my $1k+ pistols (my 1911s). I only use leather holsters with them.

heeler
May 2, 2011, 04:19 PM
I own a Diamondback 380 and the original went south and DB sent me the revised and much improved version which is a very good and flawless shooter.
Although if I was buying today after owning my PM-9 my choice would definitely be the Kahr .380 with night sights.
My PM-9 is a life time keeper and the little 380 is a shrunk down version of such.
Last, practically all these pistols when first introduced had issues but were eventually made right by the makers.

Steve 48
May 2, 2011, 05:17 PM
I love my TCP and my German Walther. Both are accurad reliable.te an

76shuvlinoff
May 2, 2011, 09:54 PM
Like most around here I have multiple calibers and platforms, some to carry, some for the night stand then some to just shoot. No real safe queens.

My carry category is currently limited to an XD40sc and an LCP. I can beat them up and still trust them both.

Fiv3r
May 3, 2011, 03:31 PM
I think a small mouse gun has a purpose for some people. The whole "why carry X when you can fit Y in an IWB holster?" or "Don't carry an X because X won't stop a rabid bear fueled by PCP!" comments are fine, but different strokes for different folks.

I work in an office. I go on sales calls. Even when in my most casual of attire I can't carry a large piece IWB...plus I don't like how it feels. So, I bring my full size pistol into my office and keep it in my drawer. In my pocket rides an LCP in a pocket holster all day long. I like that it's light, inexpensive, and reliable. Plus it's always there.

For me, anything more than the .380 on my person is a calculated measure of need to probability. With a bigger pistol, I have to weigh whether if it is worth it or not to dress the part to hide it. With the LCP, I can take it with me no matter what. So even when I'm going out with no gun...I still have a gun;) It's basically one of those "defensive" folding knives we all sometimes carry...except it shoots 9mm slugs out of it from 10 yards:D

Guns and more
May 3, 2011, 05:44 PM
...

Capp35
May 7, 2011, 11:48 AM
Gun show is next weekend and I have cash in my pocket, a burning! LOL

jon_in_wv
May 7, 2011, 11:53 AM
I've fired about 500 rounds through my LCP and it has been flawless. I couldn't ask for more from a pocket pistol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ybql8mDbs

Capp35
May 15, 2011, 11:32 PM
Update...

Just came back from the gun show and a hard chromed LCP followed me home.
Also bought a Tucker mini holster for it.

catnphx
May 16, 2011, 12:49 AM
Congrats ... the minute I saw you had cash and was heading to a gun show, well, I knew we'd get this kind of update. :)

I did that once and came back with two guns. :D

Capp35
May 16, 2011, 12:38 PM
Congrats ... the minute I saw you had cash and was heading to a gun show, well, I knew we'd get this kind of update. :)

I did that once and came back with two guns. :D
I did have my eye on a Kimber Raptor, but my pocket wasn't that deep.
But my wife was proud of me, I came home with $200! :D

I thought the hard chrome would wear better than the blue/park. Any ideas if I am correct?
Love the little holster for it, but I will probably get one for my pocket also. Any recommendations?

Guns and more
May 16, 2011, 12:57 PM
my LCP ... has been flawless. I couldn't ask for more from a pocket pistol.

I could. Like night sights (or even sights), and a slide that locks back.
Maybe a slide that doesn't rust, and a gun that's fun to shoot at the range.
Wait, I just invented the Sig 238.

pikid89
May 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
i have used both the LCP and the P238, and i definitely prefer shooting the P238
that said, i chose the LCP for carrying, as it is both smaller and lighter than the SIG, which mean i will carry it more
eventually i will have Innovative Arms add their LCP night sights and refinish the slide
http://innovativearms.com/id15.html

sirgilligan
May 16, 2011, 02:57 PM
I prefer my Walther PPK/S over my Sig P238 HD, so much so I sold the Sig. Personal preference. No need to argue my choice.

This much needs to be said, any semi-auto pistol that you carry should have over 500 rounds through it, in my opinion.

I have owned semi-auto pistols that worked fine at 50, 100, and 150 rounds. Somewhere past 200 rounds the crap hit the fan, the extractor was shot the recoil spring bunched up, etc. Please, for your sake, make sure the gun is truly running right.

mgregg85
May 16, 2011, 03:19 PM
I've got a P238, awesome little pocket gun. It is larger than some of the other pistols in your list but it is by far the best of the bunch. The trigger comes a little heavy from the factory but it is easily adjusted if you can manage a pin punch. Even without adjusting it I found it was easy to shoot because of the short single action trigger pull.

usmarine0352_2005
May 16, 2011, 04:32 PM
.


So, I finally got out to the range to test out my new SW Bodyguard .380.



What a great gun. It is extremely accurate for a pocket gun which is made possible by having real iron sights. The trigger is not too bad and the laser was spot on at 21' feet from the factory. I figure that it would shoot great at 25' feet also. This is fine for this gun's purposes and limitations. The gun is well made and durable. The gun has a bit of recoil but nothing anyone can't handle and not bad for a .380.


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/usmarine0352/SW.jpg



I shot 3 types of ammo through it, Remington, Winchester PDX1 (personal defense) and Herter's steel-cased ammo. Between my friend and I we fired over 107 rounds. I had no malfunctions with the good ammo (Remington and Winchester), however I had 8 failures to fire with the cheap Herter's. I suspect it cheap Herter's ammo and not the gun that caused the malfunction. Because the SW Bodyguard's hammer hits the firing pin every time you squeeze the trigger (a great feature), I simply squeezed the trigger again and the round fired. So for 8 of the Herter's rounds I needed to pull the trigger twice to make them fire.



http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/usmarine0352/IMG_0667.jpg

21' feet, 7 shots using the laser.




http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/usmarine0352/IMG_0668.jpg

21' feet, 6 shots with one hand.




http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/usmarine0352/IMG_0666.jpg

21' feet, multiple magazines, my friend and I shooting.



I had some problems with the gun and had to send it to SW before I ever shot it. Their customer service is excellent. They emailed me a return label and when the gun came back 3 weeks later it had 2 new spare magazines with it.

I've carried this gun in my front and back pocket and love it. I also like the safety and the fact that I the slide locks back without a magazine installed.


Overall Score: A



I would give it an "A+", but because of the initial problems I cannot. I would highly recommend this gun to anyone out there as a carry gun.

I used to carry a Springfield 1911 Champion .45, but now carry this gun because I do not need a holster for it. I just throw it in my pocket and away I go, meaning I will carry more often then I ever have. (I did order a Galco pocket holster for it though, so it prints less.). I could not be happier with this gun and it is now one of my favorites and is my primary carry gun.

On a side note, my friend who shot with me and said he was fine with his SW Bodyguard .38, he now says his next gun will be the SW Bodyguard .380.


If you are looking for a pocket sized CCW, look no farther then the SW Bodyguard .380, this is the gun for you.


.

Capp35
May 16, 2011, 05:15 PM
I could. Like night sights (or even sights), and a slide that locks back.
Maybe a slide that doesn't rust, and a gun that's fun to shoot at the range.
Wait, I just invented the Sig 238.
Posts like this always crack me up. LOL
Comparing a gun that costs $250 or less to one that costs $550 (basic version) or more.

Fun to shoot, why? Night sights, why?
It was not designed to be a range gun. It is a sub 300 dollar pistol that is for backup/deep cover. If it shoots as it is supposed to and takes the abuse I plan to put it through, then it does its job perfectly.
It is smaller, lighter and more dependable (not to even mention all the recalls/updates) than your P238.

If I am going to spend $550-$650+ then it better be fun to shoot and have night sights.

Want fun to shoot?
Get rid of that 1911 want to be and get a real 1911. :D
I love to shoot my Kimber, Colt, and Springfield and they all will put yours to shame. But just like the LCP/P238, there is a big price difference between the two.
You need to compare apples to apples.

Guns and more
May 16, 2011, 10:45 PM
Comparing a gun that costs $250 or less to one that costs $550 (basic version) or more.
Posts like this always crack me up.

Glad I could brighten your day.
If you recall the OP said he could not improve on the LCP.
I threw out some improvements.
Also, the OP said the best pocket pistol UNDER $600, not "around $300"
Fun to shoot, why?
Um.....so you practice with it?
Night sights, why?
Because it might be dark when you need it.
I like night sights, I'd have them on every gun if I could.

I did say somewhere that I now carry a Seecamp, and it has no sights, but I like the tiny size.
I'm not a LCP hater, I might get one some day, because it's a great gun FOR THE MONEY. Jeez!

Capp35
May 17, 2011, 02:12 PM
Glad I could brighten your day.
If you recall the OP said he could not improve on the LCP.
I threw out some improvements.
Also, the OP said the best pocket pistol UNDER $600, not "around $300"

I am the one that started this thread.
I did have a $600 budget, but the more I thought about it, that was too much money for what I needed if possible. I wanted something that was completely dependable, that I did not mind getting scuffed up and dirty. I thought I was going to have to spend the $600 to find that dependability. Now I know I don't have to. I can buy two of the LCP for the price of one P238.

Now you can send off the LCP to have night sights installed, upgraded barrel and alot of ther stuff. But that brings the price back up.

If I wanted something fun to shoot, I would not buy a mouse gun.

I was just making fun of you because people are always comparing features of a high dollar firearm to an inexpensive firearm.
The extra features are what makes it cost more! LOL

Like I said compare apples to apples.

That being said, would I want a P238? Sure!
It is a good pistol, but does not meet my needs at this moment.
I am also waiting till there are no more updates.

Take this all in jest.
Its a forum, and we love to debate.

Cards81fan
May 17, 2011, 02:48 PM
I am partial to my LCP, as I have nearly 500 rounds through it with no malfunctions. I have misfired it a couple of times due to it having a longer reset than I am used to, but that is my learned behavior and not a flaw of the weapon.

I also have shot my father's TCP and would prefer it to my Ruger. More comfortable grip, better (lighter) trigger with better reset, real slide lock and release, larger trigger guard (I can shoot it in gloves, which I cannot do with my Ruger), and moderately better sights (IMHO). I would argue it is a bit more "refined" than the LCP - like they took some of the pocket .380 pain points and tried to address them all with this pistol. It is also about 10% cheaper than the Ruger.

Those are my choices and are both half of your budget limit. I am sure others are great (Kahr, Sig, et al) but I guess I prefer utility and price over refinement in a well-used carry pistol. That is not to say the others are not excellent weapons, just my 2 cents. I think you will find the LCP perfectly usable and be quite happy with it. Again, I like mine.

PX15
May 17, 2011, 02:51 PM
FWIW:

IF the P238 were d/a I'd have two... :D:D (one for me, one for the bride)..

But it's not..

In my OLD FART opinion no single action anything is best for cc...

And that's just my opinion, no offense to anyone.

I subscribe to the KISS theory and anything that requires more than the pulling of the trigger in a concealed carry firearm is going away from home, imo.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

Capp35
May 17, 2011, 05:39 PM
FWIW:

IF the P238 were d/a I'd have two... :D:D (one for me, one for the bride)..

But it's not..

In my OLD FART opinion no single action anything is best for cc...

And that's just my opinion, no offense to anyone.

I subscribe to the KISS theory and anything that requires more than the pulling of the trigger in a concealed carry firearm is going away from home, imo.

Best Wishes,

Jesse
I could get into another debate and defend his P238, because I carry a 3" 1911 for my main CCW. No double action gun has two sets of safeties.

But I am tired of "debating"...... for right now! :D

PX15
May 17, 2011, 06:17 PM
Capp35,

Hey, no problem..

Every opinion is subjective, and what's right for you, in your opinion, and what's right for me, in my opinion, in this cc business, is a personal choice which doesn't make me right or you wrong.. (or visa-versa)..

All I can go by is what makes me feel "warm and fuzzy", and the LCP and the LC9 do that..

Right now.

Next week, or next year something else might come along to change my mind, and that's ok too..

I've personally never been "comfortable" with the "cocked n' locked" 1911 platform, nor the "ever light" Glock trigger setup...

So, I don't have any examples of either in my little stash.

But that doesn't mean they aren't good choices for someone else.. :)

Best Wishes,

Jesse

mlkx4
May 17, 2011, 07:01 PM
The only two I can comment on are the lcp and tcp. In my opinion the tcp was the better of the two. Both did what they were suposed to, but the tcp had a better trigger, and felt better in the hand.

Capp35
May 17, 2011, 08:23 PM
PX15,
To be honest, I was a little uncomfortable at first, till It was explained (and viewed) to me all the safty features on a 1911. And then it still took a little while. You may come around one day! LOL

Everyone else,
As far as the TCP, I looked at it and it seemed really nice, but the LCP had a better rep for shooting well right out of the box.
If you can pull the trigger in all conditions and it goes boom, it is a great gun. No mater which one it is.

usmarine0352_2005
May 18, 2011, 04:25 AM
.


1.) Single Action fine for Non-pocket carry.


2.) Double Action best for pocket carry.



I have no problem with a SA pistol like a 1911 or striker fired like the Springfield XD for regulator holster carry whether open or concealed.


When it comes to pocket carry I want something with a considerably harder/heavier trigger pull so if I pull it out of my pocket and it catches on something it won't go off into my leg.

.

RichBMW
May 18, 2011, 08:34 AM
Another vote for the LCP. Mine has been flawless and led me to purchase its big brother, the LC9. They are very similar. Excellent quality, easy to take down and clean, flawless in operation. Experience with the long LCP trigger pull will prepare you for the long LC9 trigger pull. And for just a few bucks over your $600 limit you can have them both.:)

m2steven
May 18, 2011, 02:39 PM
Kahr and Micro Eagle are wonderful pistols. Works of perfection. The Walther PP* is super nice, but I HAVE had a stovepipe with it. Rare, but it bothered me.

Cards81fan
May 18, 2011, 03:02 PM
I subscribe to the KISS theory and anything that requires more than the pulling of the trigger in a concealed carry firearm is going away from home, imo.

When it comes to pocket carry I want something with a considerably harder/heavier trigger pull

These are my thoughts as well. I own a 1911, but do not carry it as I am not confident I could operate it under stress effectively. I know it could be resolved with training, but I prefer to train with the simplicity of my two fighting pistols: an XD on my belt and a LCP in my pocket.

It is no defect of the SAO weapon, but rather my preference. But that's what it's about, right? Finding what works best for us?

usmarine0352_2005
May 18, 2011, 03:42 PM
These are my thoughts as well. I own a 1911, but do not carry it as I am not confident I could operate it under stress effectively. I know it could be resolved with training, but I prefer to train with the simplicity of my two fighting pistols: an XD on my belt and a LCP in my pocket.

It is no defect of the SAO weapon, but rather my preference. But that's what it's about, right? Finding what works best for us?




Completely agree with you.



I've always said it, the 1911 is a professionals weapon, it takes a tremendous amount of training to use that pistol and either you have it and are confident taking it into battle or you don't. That's why I think a lot of cops would not do well with the 1911. There are plenty of cops who would do well with it too, but I can guarantee that a lot wouldn't, since many can barely operate there own weapons proficiently.

.

Martin51
May 19, 2011, 01:44 AM
I've always liked single-action, so that limits my choices. I'll have to try the SIG P238 some time, since I have a Llama .380. I wouldn't use either as a pocket pistol since a holster works better to keep them upright and the grip in the right place. The Llama was under $200 a few years ago, now if I could just get the magazine to stay seated for more than four shots. . . .

Capp35
May 21, 2011, 12:06 AM
If I was doing IWB only, I might have spent the extra cash on one.
IMO it was a little large for pocket carry compared to other .380s.

GojuBrian
May 21, 2011, 12:11 AM
Get a Razzy! http://tapatalk.com/mu/46b29a62-2d3d-a158.jpg
http://tapatalk.com/mu/46b29a62-2d51-1ea7.jpg


Sent from my iRazzy

Capp35
May 21, 2011, 11:45 PM
You must really be secure with your manhood! LOL

slowbutsure
May 22, 2011, 12:28 AM
The best IMHO, is the Browning BDA. Comes with two 13rd mags, and shoots a fine enough group to be very effective, for its intended use. (Besides I own one.) sbs

dogtown tom
May 22, 2011, 01:15 AM
slowbutsure The best IMHO, is the Browning BDA. Comes with two 13rd mags, and shoots a fine enough group to be very effective, for its intended use. (Besides I own one.) sbs
Really?
The Browning BDA is the best .380 POCKET pistol?

I own a couple of BDA's and it's probably the last .380 I would consider for POCKET carry.






:banghead:

slowbutsure
May 22, 2011, 02:30 AM
Sorry, about that I missed the "pocket" part I guess. And no I don't think it would be the best. (Even if you could get it in your pocket.)

But, I do like my .380. sbs

Guns and more
May 22, 2011, 06:31 PM
Take this all in jest.
Its a forum, and we love to debate.

Indeed.

Purple Rice
May 23, 2011, 10:48 AM
LCP. Mine has never, ever had a malfunction of any kind. Not a pleasure to shoot, but it is not intended as a range pistol. Very lightweight and concealable for around 300 bucks.
(Just my two drachmas)

jon_in_wv
May 30, 2011, 10:03 AM
My recommendation is to ditch the pocket 380. Please man, don't get it. You'll regret it.

1. Cost of 380 ammo, it's rediculous
2. Vs. a 9mm, you're not going to notice much of a size or weight difference
3. 9mm platform gives you increased velocity and energy

Keltec pf9 is a great gun. You'll save some cash getting it, and have money for some accessories.

I don't get this advice at all.
1. the ammo is more expensive, yes but you aren't going to shoot a ton of ammo through a pocket pistol and if you reload the cost is the same.
2. The LCP/P3AT is a world smaller than almost any 9mm. You are going to notice the size and weight difference. I can NOT pocket carry a PF9 the way I can a LCP.
3. Agreed on point three.

Now here is where I totally disagree about the PF9 and similar sized weapons. By the time you get to a weapon this size you are getting dangerously close to the size of a Glock 26/XD subcompact/M&P Compact which are, to me, vastly superior defensive weapons. I used to carry a KelTec p-11 but I bought a M&P 9C to replace it. The size difference isn't noticeable but the shootability, reliability, and accuracy outclass the Keltec by a long shot. There are times I find I need a smaller gun and during those times the PF9 wouldn't be small enough to make a difference where the LCP does. It is MUCH smaller. It is accurate, reliable, and much more capable than you would think for its size. I haven't felt any desire to get another pocket gun when the LCP works as well as it does. If you can only have one gun, a compromise gun like the PF9, LC9, etc...makes sense. If you are looking for a pistol to fill a pocket pistol role, then its the LCP.

Dogguy
May 30, 2011, 10:32 AM
If you're looking for a high quality pocket pistol, here's a unique idea...buy clothes with bigger pockets and go for a larger sized gun.

Rifleman 173
May 30, 2011, 10:48 AM
I love my new Bersa .380 pistol. Accurate even at longer distances. Easy to use, shoot and manipulate. Small enough to be compact and easy to conceal. Yep, Bersa .380 and you're good to go.

PX15
May 30, 2011, 12:14 PM
JMOfartO:


We're talking a 380cal. POCKET PISTOL, right?

Here's my 2c worth.. (probably not much)


1. I have my LCP with Innovative Arms external sights and the CT Laser.. It can make the trip with me 90% of the time. (OK, I fess' up. I'm making up these percentages).

2. I have a Seecamp LWS380 with NO external sights or laser.. It can make the trip with me 100% of the time..
The Ruger LCP is a pleasure to shoot as compared to the recoil, trigger slap and drama associated with shooting the fine, diminutive Seecamp.

So, I take the LCP as my first choice for a cc weapon (in 380cal.) BUT...

For that 10% of the time when even the small LCP is too large, nothing is comparable to the tiny, tiny Seecamp LWS380.. :D

The LWS380 is so tiny that often I just slip it in a shirt pocket, and STILL have the LCP in my back pocket..

IF my pockets allow for more pistol than the Ruger LCP or Seecamp LWS380 THEN I stick my Ruger LC9 in one of 'em..

All excellent choices, but the choice on any particular trip is determined by what CAN actually be carried concealed..

No offense.

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2207.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2503.jpg

Aristides
May 30, 2011, 12:14 PM
I'm not sure if Dogguy was kidding or not...probably not.

I stumbled across his idea, and have embraced it. This past year I realized I could carry my M&P 9c or my Beretta Cheetah quite easily in the large pockets of my cargo jeans shorts. So I started doing that around the house, and sometimes when going out casually in the summer. I now have purchased a few extra pairs of this type of shorts, and it's all I wear, except when I'm golfing.

I don't always drop my 9c in the cargo shorts...sometimes I still carry my Sig P238 in the pocket, and the 9c IWB. But it's actually more comfortable to carry the 9c in the pocket and the P238 IWB.

But in business dress slacks, my EDC is the P238 in my pocket.

jon_in_wv
May 30, 2011, 01:28 PM
I don't see the benefit of pocket carrying a larger gun over belt carry of the same weapon. I wouldn't buy different clothes to accommodate putting a weapon in my pocket that should be on my belt. Also, I have larger hands. A g26 or a P11 fits in my pockets as it is and I could probably conceal it there but drawing the weapon out of my pocket opening with my hand on the grip is a no go. Its all about the role your weapon is filling. For the occasional times I pocket carry I'm not going to purchase a whole different style of pants to accommodate carrying a bulkier weapon in my pocket when the LCP fits just fine in my clothes now. If a LC9 or similar was my only carry then it might be worth it.

1911s
June 3, 2011, 02:26 PM
I like my P238, its surprisingly accurate, and you can trick them out. It is heavier than the plastic ones, but I don't notice it while packing.

grsam
June 6, 2011, 04:20 PM
Bersa make the CC (conceal carry) smaller than the thunder but still bigger than a P3AT

kokapelli
June 6, 2011, 04:55 PM
Bersa make the CC (conceal carry) smaller than the thunder but still bigger than a P3AT
It's a lot bigger than the P3AT and even a lot bigger than the CM9/PM9.

Bersa CC
Length: 6.61 inches
Height: 4.92 inches
Width: 1.34 inches
Barrel length: 3.5 inches
Weight: 20 ounces

P3AT
Weight 8.3 oz
Length 5.2 in
Width 0.77 in
Height 3.5 in

CM9/PM9
Length O/A: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces

richardKatts
June 8, 2011, 01:19 PM
Really happy with my P238. Chose it over the LCP and LC9 and the Kel-Tec famlily.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/richarddacat/MISC/IMG_0766.jpg

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