Reloads for HD/CCW


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bk42261
April 26, 2011, 06:04 PM
I keep my S&W model 65 loaded with Glaser Safety slugs in the nightstand for HD, but swap to Hydra-Shocks for CC. Both are followed by speedloders of 125 JHPs. Does anybody else change their ammo for HD vs. CCW?

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NavyLCDR
April 26, 2011, 06:10 PM
Nope. My HD gun is the same as my CCW gun and I only unload it to clean it or pull the trigger at the range.

alsaqr
April 26, 2011, 06:12 PM
Does anybody else change their ammo for HD vs. CCW?

Not i.

CoRoMo
April 26, 2011, 06:15 PM
I defend the home with 5.56mm, .45acp, and a 12ga.

I carry 9mm... so... no.

KimberUltra
April 26, 2011, 06:18 PM
I defend my house with the same ammo I carry as well.

Snowdog
April 26, 2011, 06:19 PM
Naw, that's just one more thing to think about.

My CCW pistol(s) isn't the same as my HD pistol. However, if it were, I'd use the same loads.

Maverick223
April 26, 2011, 06:22 PM
I use a .45ACP (to get to the long gun that I should have never put down in the first place), and 12Ga. for primary HD. I generally carry a .380ACP for CCW so I obviously use different loads, but they are never changed, nor would they be if their roles were swapped (save for range practice). FWIW I use CorBon in the .380ACP, Win. Ranger T-Series in the .45ACP, and 3in. Mag. No. 4B in the 12Ga. I prioritize terminal performance and that requires plenty of penetration (but I also live outside of town).

:)

David4516
April 26, 2011, 06:30 PM
Normally I carry the same stuff in the home and on the street. The exception to this rule is if I'm going camping / hiking. If I'm out in the woods I switch from JHP to FMJ ammo. Figure I could use extra penatration vs animals like Cougar or Bear... and should still work OK on 2 legged animals too...

kingpin008
April 26, 2011, 07:47 PM
I don't have a CCW, but if I did, there'd be no switching.

As an aside, any particular reason for choosing the Glasers for HD? They tend to perform pretty terribly, especially in relation to the other options available for SD/HD.

Also, keep in mind that you should be training with the load that you intend to use when it comes to a defensive firearm, since every load is going to perform differently. By constantly swapping our rounds for different situations, you're not doing yourself any favors in regards to becoming familiar with how your gun performs.

9mmfan
April 27, 2011, 04:42 AM
Nightstand/business alarm going off gun is a 92fs with a full mag, and usually (though lazily not right now) spare mag filled with a mix of Hornady and Hydra-Shocks. Moving away from the Hornady. Current CCW is a Bodyguard .38 loaded with 135 grn Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel. Soon to be CCW (shoot it MUCH more accurately) , when the leather gets here in couple days, EMP will be stoked with 124 grn Golden Sabres. So they are all loaded with whatever JHP I was able to find that fed in whatever. Thinking 'bout switching the 92 for the PT1911 (golden from day one) or the Loaded Champion (finally coming around after bending, or what gunsmiths call "tuning" the extractor so they can charge more, to a point that I shared with it a satisfying trip to the range.) Curiously, I have only once grabbed the Mossy 500 (2 3/4" 00 Buck) from behind the door to meet some bump in the night. Fortunately for all, it was an innocuous bump. So in answer, no, they are all loaded with what that which with they are loaded. If I am too lazy to load that extra mag again, I am too lazy to switch out ammo that I know cycles in whichever gun is at hand.

jgiehl
April 27, 2011, 09:00 AM
Business is business in my book.
If it's good enough to protect my wife and children out there, it's good enough in here.

Jonah71
April 27, 2011, 10:11 AM
Even though I initially put a lot of rounds through any carry or HD gun, I can't afford to practice with my carry load. But I do remain consistant when not at the range.

shep854
April 27, 2011, 10:11 AM
Whew. When I saw the thread title, I thought you (bk42261) were asking about using handloads for HD or CCW.:uhoh:
For changing out loads, I did it for a while, a long time ago, but even the slight hassle of changing loads twice a day quickly got old.

Maverick223
April 27, 2011, 11:58 AM
Whew. When I saw the thread title, I thought you (bk42261) were asking about using handloads for HD or CCW.I initially thought the same. Personally I roll my own for the backup HD rifles (but not for the primary ones, nor my CCWs)...I figure if I end up needing those (a .30Carbine & 7.62x39mm, both having hard to find, expensive, and/or ineffective defensive loads), then I'm not the least bit concerned with the legal repercussions of using handloads. YMMV.

:)

MrWesson
April 27, 2011, 12:28 PM
I have them in one of my many HD guns a 9mm carbine.

It reloaded some xtp HP at first because takes 33rd magazines and I didn't have enough SD ammo around(after testing the loads).

My loads are much more effective(custom carbine loads) than simple +P SD ammo. My load runs 1600fps vs ~1350 and does so without reaching +p pressures(slow powder/long barrel).

I live in Florida and a good shoot is a good shoot so I am not really worried about it.

kbbailey
April 27, 2011, 12:34 PM
no.

Maverick223
April 27, 2011, 01:09 PM
I live in Florida and a good shoot is a good shoot so I am not really worried about it.Here in NC you have to worry about that a bit more...but hopefully that will change with the passage of a stronger Castle Doctrine.

:)

Sam1911
April 27, 2011, 01:14 PM
I live in Florida and a good shoot is a good shoot so I am not really worried about it. And once more ... (for like the seventh time this month) ... a "good shoot" is NOT a "good shoot" if you're ammo choices are being discussed by a prosecutor.

Might as well say, "Unless it matters, it really doesn't matter. But if it matters, then it matters."

ForumSurfer
April 27, 2011, 01:19 PM
Nope. My HD gun is the same as my CCW gun and I only unload it to clean it or pull the trigger

What that guy said.

I'm just not a glaser safety slug believer. I'm not sold on them. I'll stick with my rangers or speer gold dots. I have kids in the house, but I'm not worried about over penetration, honestly. If I was, I'd still be worried with the glasers. I've seen too many "homegrown" tests where glaser's kept right on going through several layers of sheet rock. Glasers still have energy left over after 2-4 layers of sheetrock, enough energy that I wouldn't want my kid there so I'm not seeing the point.

pockets
April 27, 2011, 01:59 PM
No.

.

mljdeckard
April 27, 2011, 04:04 PM
No.

You need to lose this idea of 'over-penetration'. If you are trusting a bullet to stop someone who is trying to kill you, you want it to traverse his body completely, not halfway. This generally means it is going to go through a person. If you want to minimize the risk of hitting someone you didn't intend to BEHIND your target, you need to plan ahead and lay your house out to make sure that the likely fields of fire don't have people behind them. It is just as important (probably MORE important) to stop a bad guy in your house as it is on the street. Use the most effective weapon and ammo you can handle.

ForumSurfer
April 27, 2011, 04:45 PM
Let me point out that when I say that "I'm not worried about over penetration" that I'm not forgetting about rule #4 (be aware of your target and what is beyond it). If the target is between me and my family (even if they are in another room), I wouldn't feel safe taking a shot even with safety slugs.

Shadow 7D
April 27, 2011, 05:00 PM
Sadly I remember what the box o truth did with glasers and other 'specialty' rounds
gist was, if it won't penetrate a house wall etc. it isn't going to penetrate a person, make an ugly hole, not the devastating wound need to stop someone.

I would use what ever the local cop use, If you like it, if not find a HP of your flavor and find out who uses it.

Loosedhorse
April 27, 2011, 05:34 PM
I keep my S&W model 65 loaded with Glaser Safety slugs in the nightstand for HD
I use a semi-auto pistols for dedicated for HD. It has a single Glaser in the chamber; the mag is HPs.

(Yes, I have function fired it--Glaser first, this HP second--about 20 times.)

I do not have unusual first loadings for my HD long guns.

kingpin008
April 27, 2011, 06:02 PM
It has a single Glaser in the chamber; the mag is HPs.

Why?

ForumSurfer
April 27, 2011, 06:07 PM
It has a single Glaser in the chamber; the mag is HPs.

Why?

I'm glad you asked. I was wondering, too. If I ever needed mine I train to fire at least a double tap. I could understand loading the first 4 or 5...but not just one all by it's lonesome?

MrWesson
April 27, 2011, 06:37 PM
And once more ... (for like the seventh time this month) ... a "good shoot" is NOT a "good shoot" if you're ammo choices are being discussed by a prosecutor.

Might as well say, "Unless it matters, it really doesn't matter. But if it matters, then it matters."

If my case is being that closely examined by a prosecutor its not a good shoot.

Not one single case has been tested in FL courts civilly or criminally over choice of ammo or firearm so I think I am safe. At some point you just have to stop worrying about getting hit in the head by a meteor.


I also use the most effective tool for the job and wouldn't worry about prosecutors till afterwards you know because I am alive.

longdayjake
April 27, 2011, 07:02 PM
And once more ... (for like the seventh time this month) ... a "good shoot" is NOT a "good shoot" if you're ammo choices are being discussed by a prosecutor.



I am not a judicial expert in any way, but a prosecutor that decides to start talking about your choice of ammunition is just giving reasonable doubt to the jury and it means he has a tough case trying to prove your mens rea. Shoot cases have been decided for centuries without needing information about choice of loads. There is really no reason for a lawyer to step into unknown ground to try to get a conviction. The type of ammo used is really only important on CSI Miami and Law and Order because they are anti-gun and want to make it an issue. I know we all love Mas Ayoob and his work he has done for the gun crowd, but he has yet to produce any evidence other than his personal opinion that handloads will put you in prison. As was said before, a good shoot based on the scenario will not turn into a bad shoot simply because a handload is involved. In fact, there is judicial precedent regarding the use of "increased lethality" ammunition that basically says since it is designed to be lethal one cannot complain that it did what it was manufactured and designed to do.

If you are that worried about the government complaining that you used special ammo that was designed specifically for killing then you might as well use FMJ.

Maverick223
April 27, 2011, 07:08 PM
At some point you just have to stop worrying about getting hit in the head by a meteor.Just walk around looking up...that way you'll see it coming...




...as you fall down the stairs. :p

Sam1911
April 27, 2011, 08:43 PM
This thread might be a good read on the subject of reloaded ammo: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7204540

The question is not whether a prosecutor will use your ammo choice to get a conviction. The more important question is whether you would be able to use information available through testing to assist your defense.

But, yup, meteors and all that.

Balrog
April 27, 2011, 09:33 PM
Sam, another point to consider is whether or not you are in a criminal case or a civil case. The standards are different. Use of reloads could potentially be used against you in a civil case easier than in a criminal case.

Maverick223
April 27, 2011, 11:22 PM
^That I agree with, which is why I use handloads only in secondary firearms (things would have to be really bad to need these, in which case I couldn't care less about a civil lawsuit nor a criminal proceeding).

:)

Loosedhorse
April 28, 2011, 09:08 AM
I'm glad you asked. I was wondering, too. If I ever needed mine I train to fire at least a double tap.
Oh, because I had an ND once. While I was wide-awake, middle of the day, gun pointing at a concrete wall.

Sure, I'd like to believe that training alone will prevent a ND if I grab the gun half-awake, with loved ones on the other side of a couple of sheets of wallboard. That first round is my "what-if" round. Works for me. (And I've taken other precautions as well.)

By the way, nothing in my set-up prevents a double-tap, should the user prefer it.

As to hand-loaded ammo for SD, I'm tempted for .41 Magnum (but I won't). Most of the commercial ammo in .41 is unnecessarily hot or penetrative for SD.

MrWesson
April 28, 2011, 12:02 PM
As to hand-loaded ammo for SD, I'm tempted for .41 Magnum (but I won't). Most of the commercial ammo in .41 is unnecessarily hot or penetrative for SD.

It really shouldn't be but it is a state by state thing.

I do load some of my own SD ammo but I live in a gun friendly state where a CCW/HD shootings are not uncommon.

In Massachusetts I wouldn't dare load my own SD ammo.

I should also say I dont load CCW ammo only ammo for HD. Less questions will be asked during a home invasion than if you have to use your CCW in public.

Maverick223
April 28, 2011, 01:01 PM
I should also say I dont load CCW ammo only ammo for HD. Less questions will be asked during a home invasion than if you have to use your CCW in public.^That.

:)

pioneer461
April 28, 2011, 01:12 PM
No, and neither would I ever use Glasers.

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