How many handguns can you pick up on a 4473


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Tom Fury
April 28, 2011, 04:06 PM
Without arousing concern from ATF? Moving to new state (back from working out of the country) and wish to have guns shipped to new LGS and receive again there; last count there are 10. Should I split up the shipments to 2-3 a month?

Cheers, TF

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Shadow 7D
April 28, 2011, 04:10 PM
Buying multiple handguns results in more paperwork for the FFL
BUT, you can fit 5 or 7 (it's been a while) on a form, then you have do another or, I think there is a continuation.

CoRoMo
April 28, 2011, 04:17 PM
Without arousing concern from ATF?
What do you mean?

If you buy more than one, the multiple handgun form is filed. It does not 'concern' the ATF in the least. They receive a ton of those forms all the time. If you don't want that form filed, just buy one at a time.

Sunray
April 28, 2011, 04:20 PM
"...Should I split up the shipments to 2-3 a month?..." That'd likely cause you grief. Make it look like you're running a business.

brboyer
April 28, 2011, 04:47 PM
Buying multiple handguns results in more paperwork for the FFL
BUT, you can fit 5 or 7 (it's been a while) on a form, then you have do another or, I think there is a continuation.
No limit on the 4473...well, there is space for 5.
From the instructions on the form itself:
If more than five firearms are involved in a transaction, the information required by Section D, questions 26-30, must be provided for the additional firearms on a separate sheet of paper which must be attached to the ATF Form 4473 covering the transaction.

gearhead
April 28, 2011, 10:17 PM
I thought you could ship firearms to yourself without going through an FFL?

newfalguy101
April 28, 2011, 10:40 PM
If you already own the guns, either ship them to yourself, or pack them and take them with you, there is NO need to go through an FFL to move your own personal firearms from one state to another in the US

Shadow 7D
April 29, 2011, 05:04 PM
You are currently in the UK???
Most likely would be cheapest just to bring them with you,
Please tell me you are Airforce, if you are, then take them on a AMC Space-A flight, with proper paperwork, as Customs will be much easier. I believe that you have to fill out paperwork for 'personal import of firearms' and I don't know if that is customs or ATF or both.

Just make sure the paperwork is in order, if you are stationed on a military base, I would call travel assistance and see what is required to bring them back, as I think you don't need any paperwork for ones bought on post or in the US, but those bought outside the US need import paperwork.

kingpin008
April 29, 2011, 05:12 PM
I thought you could ship firearms to yourself without going through an FFL?

Not from outside the country you can't. And that only applies to long guns anyway.

If you already own the guns, either ship them to yourself

Once again, this is not an option. The "ship to yourself" option applies to long guns ONLY. If he wants to transport them, and is indeed talking about shipping them from one state to another and not one country to another, he must either transport them himself or go through a FFL.

Tom Fury
April 29, 2011, 05:34 PM
for all your input; let me box this in a little better: (Born in the USA and still a citizen with no plans to give it up)!

I Have worked in the UK for 7 years; during this time, I have continued to buy things from auction sites and have them transferred to a friend who is an FFL dealer with a brick and mortar store and a safe. They remain in the safe, on his inventory sheet.

Before anybody freaks out; I discussed the legality of this with BATF before I started doing it; I can live here and still do auction buying as long as the purchases remain with him until I arrange (4473 process) to take possession, we are legal; they are "mine" but not mine yet.

When I moved, I moved from the street address I had there and my drivers' license in that state is dead; to obtain another wherever, I will need a fixed address; Don't have one yet; won't go back to that area; probably move to Florida or Tennessee...

I have no ties to that community anymore; would look elsewhere for a job, and family that used to live there has moved far away; I would become a resident of another state; the plan is then to have them shipped FFL to FFL to local shop in new area and pick them up as normally from new shop/FFL.

I have heard rumors that if you do multiple handgun purchases in excess of some magic number the ATF starts thinking you have an "arsenal" and gets concerned; (like they haven't seen this already) I'm not interested in drama, and just want to know the best way to work out my plan without attracting it.

Is there such a magic number? Am I concerned with no reason?

Thanks; sorry for the confusion, TF

hermannr
April 29, 2011, 05:39 PM
Sorry, wrote before your explaination.

If the weapons have not been transfered into your name yet, put them all on one form. It is easier to explain once than look like you are trying to curcomvent the law.

nalioth
April 29, 2011, 05:45 PM
I thought you could ship firearms to yourself without going through an FFL?
Not from outside the country you can't. And that only applies to long guns anyway.
If you already own the guns, either ship them to yourself
Once again, this is not an option. The "ship to yourself" option applies to long guns ONLY. If he wants to transport them, and is indeed talking about shipping them from one state to another and not one country to another, he must either transport them himself or go through a FFL.
Au contraire.

You can ship any firearm you legally own to yourself, legally (so long as it's legal in the place you'll be receiving it). This includes, rifles, shotguns, pistols, whatever.

If you legally own it, you can legally ship it to yourself.

newfalguy101
April 29, 2011, 07:33 PM
Au contraire.

You can ship any firearm you legally own to yourself, legally (so long as it's legal in the place you'll be receiving it). This includes, rifles, shotguns, pistols, whatever.

If you legally own it, you can legally ship it to yourself.
Yup, what he said!!

newfalguy101
April 29, 2011, 07:40 PM
for all your input; let me box this in a little better: (Born in the USA and still a citizen with no plans to give it up)!

I Have worked in the UK for 7 years; during this time, I have continued to buy things from auction sites and have them transferred to a friend who is an FFL dealer with a brick and mortar store and a safe. They remain in the safe, on his inventory sheet.

Before anybody freaks out; I discussed the legality of this with BATF before I started doing it; I can live here and still do auction buying as long as the purchases remain with him until I arrange (4473 process) to take possession, we are legal; they are "mine" but not mine yet.

When I moved, I moved from the street address I had there and my drivers' license in that state is dead; to obtain another wherever, I will need a fixed address; Don't have one yet; won't go back to that area; probably move to Florida or Tennessee...

I have no ties to that community anymore; would look elsewhere for a job, and family that used to live there has moved far away; I would become a resident of another state; the plan is then to have them shipped FFL to FFL to local shop in new area and pick them up as normally from new shop/FFL.

I have heard rumors that if you do multiple handgun purchases in excess of some magic number the ATF starts thinking you have an "arsenal" and gets concerned; (like they haven't seen this already) I'm not interested in drama, and just want to know the best way to work out my plan without attracting it.

Is there such a magic number? Am I concerned with no reason?

Thanks; sorry for the confusion, TF
If the dealer transfers two or more handguns within five days a he must file a multiple sales form with the state law enforcment agency ( In Nebraska I sent it to the State patrol ) and ATF.

In your situation, Tom, I would get settled and ask your buddy that has the guns in his inventory to ship them to a local FFL in your new hometown.

Most definately talk with the receiving FFL and explain precisely what the deal is.

A one hit wonder like this deal is will NOT raise any flags at ATF as they look for individuals who appear on numerous multiple handgun sale forms.

brboyer
April 29, 2011, 08:38 PM
Au contraire.

You can ship any firearm you legally own to yourself, legally (so long as it's legal in the place you'll be receiving it). This includes, rifles, shotguns, pistols, whatever.

If you legally own it, you can legally ship it to yourself.

Just for clarification, from one point within the US, to another.


Shipping to or from a foreign country is import/export with additional paperwork/restrictions.
(Not applicable to the instant case.)

22-rimfire
April 29, 2011, 08:50 PM
The problem is the OP does not technically "own" the guns yet as they have never been transferred to him. Hence, I would have them shipped to a local gunshop after you talk over the details with them and after you are a resident of the new state. Shouldn't be a problem no matter how many there are.

skoro
April 30, 2011, 06:27 PM
Several years ago I bought three handguns on a single 4473, so the maximum would be more than that. They were all semiautos and I'm more of a revolver guy. Go figure. ;)

brboyer
April 30, 2011, 07:10 PM
The problem is the OP does not technically "own" the guns yet as they have never been transferred to him. Hence, I would have them shipped to a local gunshop after you talk over the details with them and after you are a resident of the new state. Shouldn't be a problem no matter how many there are.

Why do you say this is a problem, it's not true nor is it a problem.
Actually he does own them. He paid for them they are his, notwithstanding the Federal law that requires paperwork and possibly a background check before he may 'possess' them. But In every other aspect of law, he is the owner of said property.

natman
May 2, 2011, 01:31 PM
Au contraire.

You can ship any firearm you legally own to yourself, legally (so long as it's legal in the place you'll be receiving it). This includes, rifles, shotguns, pistols, whatever.

If you legally own it, you can legally ship it to yourself.
You're right, BUT the OP does not yet own the firearms in question. They are at an FFL in his former state and have not yet been transferred to him. So from a 4473 point of view they are not yet his, even though he's paid for them.

The best way to deal with it is to have the guns shipped to an FFL in the OP's new state once he's established residency there and can prove it with 90 days of utility bills and a new state ID. Then transfer the guns on one 4473, with an extension to the 4473 to cover all the guns and a multiple handgun form filed. Much better to create one unusual purchase you can explain than a pattern of unusual purchases.

nalioth
May 2, 2011, 01:38 PM
Au contraire.

You can ship any firearm you legally own to yourself, legally (so long as it's legal in the place you'll be receiving it). This includes, rifles, shotguns, pistols, whatever.

If you legally own it, you can legally ship it to yourself.
You're right, BUT the OP does not yet own the firearms in question. They are at an FFL in his former state and have not yet been transferred to him. So from a 4473 point of view they are not yet his, even though he's paid for them.

The best way to deal with it is to have the guns shipped to an FFL in the OP's new state once he's established residency there and can prove it with 90 days of utility bills and a new state ID. Then transfer the guns on one 4473, with an extension to the 4473 to cover all the guns and a multiple handgun form filed. Much better to create one unusual purchase you can explain than a pattern of unusual purchases.If you care to read, I was not responding to the OP, but to another poster.

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