Guns Are Not Muffins


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dovedescending
May 1, 2011, 01:30 PM
...which means you shouldn't bake them at 350 degrees Fahrenheit.

Without giving a whole meandering back-story, I would like to know what to expect from a Taurus PT709 and a SIG 220 that have been preheated in an oven to the aforementioned temperature. Both weapons were loaded, by the way. They are now cooling on a counter, muzzles pointed in a safe direction.

These are not my guns, but I received a frantic phone call asking for advice. I turn to THR :)

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dovedescending
May 1, 2011, 01:45 PM
More specifically: Should the guns be unloaded once they have cooled enough to handle? Will they still be shootable, or will the oven have destroyed the temper of the steel? (And in the case of the Taurus, messed up the polymer.)

Smokey Joe
May 1, 2011, 01:48 PM
Doves Descending--You saidWithout giving a whole meandering back-storyWhy not?? Left to my imagination, every possibility comes up with something, ah, "interesting" at best, tragicomic at worst!

Truth is stranger than fiction, except, of course, when it's more prosaic.

ETA--Well, certainly the firearms in question should be unloaded--with all due regard for safety--as soon as practicable! And we want an informed, professional opinion, not that of old Uncle Harry, as to whether or not they are safe to fire. Unless Uncle Harry is a qualified gunsmith, and also a metallurgist.

M-Cameron
May 1, 2011, 01:49 PM
ummm......forget to remove the guns from their hiding spot before preheating the oven much?....

well for starters....i would just toss the ammo out.....its cheap and not worth the risk....

as for the guns, i would call up taurus, explain the situation...send them in....and have them look them over......although chances are good the warranty is voided......

dovedescending
May 1, 2011, 01:50 PM
Meandering backstory: :)

My brother is in the AL guard, and is mobilized. His wife stored the extra guns in the oven to hide them from possible looters before heading to a place of safety (their place had no power.) After she returned home, she forgot about the guns, and preheated the oven to bake something.

I guess that wasn't so meandering after all. Any thoughts?

EDIT: The guns didn't go off. I guess she discovered them in time, but I think I read somewhere that primers can cook off at around 300 degrees...?

NG VI
May 1, 2011, 01:52 PM
Were they in the tray under the oven proper? Bet they're fine that way.

Call the companies and ask, best bet.

And throw out the ammo.

If they didn't go off yet, they're not going to, but the quality is probably fragged. No sense trying to see how unreliably they ignite or how inaccurate they are now, just chuck 'em.

Justin
May 1, 2011, 01:52 PM
Any thoughts?

A safe or residential security locker would have prevented this.

The guns are probably fine, be thankful they didn't get hot enough to cook off.

zoom6zoom
May 1, 2011, 01:53 PM
Nowhere near the temperatures (or time) used for heat treating. I can't speak to the polymer, I don't own plastic guns. You might find some minor degradation of some springs, which can be easily replaced, but if it was just a brief exposure I'm doubtful any real harm has been done.

hermannr
May 1, 2011, 01:54 PM
Steel is tempered at 1500 to 1800 so steel temper is not a problem.

If the plastic did not deform, you should not have any problems. The ammo (sounds like they were loaded?) will probably fire too, after it cools down, but if you are concerned about the ammo, dissasemble and reload it.

May I add, most items that are designed to be outside, or maybe stored inside a closed container like a car) are have a design storage temp of 150C (basically 300F) I've been looking for the stated design max storage temp on your polymer pistol, but cannot find any (yet)

That all said, I'm pretty sure you did no perminent damage.

Zonie
May 1, 2011, 02:19 PM
I think gun powder can degrade in heat, so I would definitely toss the cartridges. They might be fine, but its not worth the risk.

The heat may cause the springs to lose some of their "bounce", so those should probably be checked out.

Lastly, don't hide guns in the oven. And don't leave guns loaded if you have no intention of using them.

22-rimfire
May 1, 2011, 02:26 PM
Lastly, don't hide guns in the oven. And don't leave guns loaded if you have no intention of using them.

That's funny. I have a sign on my stove that says "check the oven before turning it on" since we often have skillets, pots or pans stashed there. Never tried a gun, but I guess that's a pretty good hiding spot.

I would shoot the ammunition first and load them up with new ammo that has not been kiln dried. :D I have absolutely no intention of ever using a gun for home defense, but being prepared is a good thing.

Jim Watson
May 1, 2011, 02:27 PM
350F is not going to anneal steel to any real degree or distort aluminum.

I'd check the plastic grips and mainspring seat of the SIG for deformation.

It might well have warped the plastic of the Taurus, the heat deflection temperature of Nylon 6 (if indeed that is what it is made out of) is 340 F, so there is some chance of damage.

I would not trust the ammunition, either.

Toforo
May 1, 2011, 02:35 PM
There are some "deep lubricating" methods/recipes for parkerized finishes on guns that require a heavy grease (like vasoline) and an oven at temps higher than that for several hours......... but THAT'S with any "plastic parts" removed - so your frame should be fine.

BUT - those "recipes" are for 1911 frames so - have an armorer/smith check them out...

FYI - here's a link to the "oven baked" SHAKE'n'BAKE recipe....

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/02/parkerizing-truth-vs-tales.html

Shadow 7D
May 1, 2011, 02:42 PM
If the plastic did not deform, you should not have any problems. The ammo (sounds like they were loaded?) will probably fire too, after it cools down, but if you are concerned about the ammo, dissasemble and reload it.

This, I have baked a number of gun, it's part of the curing process for KG GunKote, haven't had a problem, only thing I would question is the ammo, if it didn't cook off, it probably is good for a trip to the range soon.

sonick808
May 1, 2011, 02:57 PM
a car in AZ summer can reach darn near 155, and I know plenty of people put their guns through that out here. I doubt a few minutes at 300-350 will damage anything. That doesn't mean that expert opinion shouldnt' be sought from factory.

ol' scratch
May 1, 2011, 03:31 PM
I remember I saw an episode of Mythbusters on Discovery where they tested if the guns would go off if placed in an oven for safe keeping. Sounds like it may be more common than some people would think. She is lucky they didn't go off.

The guns a probably fine, but as others have said, get rid of the ammo.

gym
May 1, 2011, 03:39 PM
Check all non metal parts and replace them to be on the safe side. Plastic will more than lkelly at least soften if not melt at that temp. I would replace all springs plastic parts and seals of any kind maybe a recoil buffer. The metal should be ok.
Use the freezer like everyone else man. Just kidding, A pot in a top shelf works well, like a set od potts one with a weapon in it woked wel for me when I had work done in an apartment I wansn't living in "off and on" the decorated had sub-contractors in there all the time and one went on a rampage looking for valuables", that was the one place they missed. Guys don't look in pots on a high shelf I guess.

hardluk1
May 1, 2011, 03:44 PM
The springs are probably junk and contact the manufacturer and ask them about the plastic but melting point depending on product would be to the higher side of 400* and with exteme pressure so the plastic might be ok too. Oh, take the guns away from the guys wife or atleast whats left of them.

coloradokevin
May 1, 2011, 03:45 PM
Glad the rounds didn't cook off! My guess is that the guns are fine, since 300-400 degrees F isn't all that hot for metal, and guns get rather warm when shot anyway. I'd say that if they look and feel fine when disassembled, then they are probably. I'd take the chance if they were mine :)

Ryanxia
May 1, 2011, 04:03 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned yet but some people actually purposely put their guns (unloaded) the metal parts anyway in the oven and 'bake' them to get a desired "look". This is even done in paintball guns after removing the electronics boards.

Discard the ammo as already stated, my GUESS would be your only real issues with the guns themselves would lie in plastic/polymer parts and to confirm the barrel integrity is still good (just to be on the safe side).

amd6547
May 1, 2011, 04:07 PM
*note to self...be sure to check ovens when looting after natural disasters

dirtykid
May 1, 2011, 04:50 PM
I take it nobody has seen the latest "gun-torture test" on American-handgunner TV show ?
They Bake a XD (I think) into a pan of Angel-food cake,and then remove it and try to fire it !,, except for all the goo stuck in the slide it actually discharged a couple times but failed to eject spent casing due to pure delicousness !
It appears to not have affected any of the polymer-components though,, interesting

Shadow 7D
May 1, 2011, 11:24 PM
hehe, that would be me
Love anglefood cake, gotta remember that if I'm ever locked up.
(wonder how the lube effected the rise, oil of any kind is murder to angle food cake)

kingpin008
May 1, 2011, 11:52 PM
(wonder how the lube effected the rise, oil of any kind is murder to angle food cake)

Eh, not necessarily. The batter definitely is fat-free, but if a little oil or lube (gun or otherwise) got into it it wouldn't be a huge deal. It's the pan itself that really has to be unlubed. If the pan is greased, or has water on it, the cake isn't gonna rise.

*pastry student geek-mode off*

Shadow 7D
May 2, 2011, 03:55 AM
I thought oil in the batter allowed the water steam to escape without proper inflating the protein or kept the proteins from sticking together.

Anywho, unless it's a pot metal gun, no harm done if the plastic is intact.

kingpin008
May 2, 2011, 10:37 AM
I thought oil in the batter allowed the water steam to escape without proper inflating the protein or kept the proteins from sticking together.

It will, but whatever might leak out of a gun won't be enough to make a difference. If anything, the gun itself would be the cause of a failed rise/collapse just due to it's shape and weight disrupting the batter.

But yeah, back to topic - I'd be suprised if the gun was damaged, but I's still take it to a 'smith before I shot it again.

RimfireChris
May 2, 2011, 11:35 AM
^^And I thought reloaders were bad. ;)

gearhead
May 2, 2011, 12:53 PM
350F won't hurt the weapon. BUT... I would be concerned with the actual temperatures that the side of the gun exposed to the heating elements might have reached. Even if the temperature of the air was 350F, radiant heat transfer from the red-hot elements could easily get a black surface to a much higher temperature on the side that was in direct line of sight to the element. I would say that if the polymer isn't warped or noticeably shinier on the side that was exposed to the elements then they should be okay, though.

Single Action Six
May 2, 2011, 04:14 PM
..I can't believe none of you said (and here was the ideal setup to do it).

"Talk about someone owning a gun that's HOT!" ;)

Well.. somebody had to say it. :D

Single Action Six

1894
May 3, 2011, 12:23 AM
I have absolutely nothing of value to add to this thread. I just wanted to say that it has my all time favorite title. I'll be going now.

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