Perfect Packin' Pistols?


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Justin Holder
May 1, 2011, 06:16 PM
I've been watching a few new videos on Youtube about different peoples ideas of what their perfect packing pistol is. What annoys me is almost every gun shown doesn't even qualify as a PPP if you use John Taffin's original definition of a relatively light weight handgun chambered in a sufficiently powerful cartridge for any task at hand with a 4" to 51/2" barrel. Adjustable sights are preferred but not mandatory.

I think people are missing the point of the PPP and confusing it with a CCW handgun. A PPP is basically a field/working gun meant to be carried openly on a belt or possibly in a chest/shoulder rig. A Ruger LCP or a S&W J frame just don't fit the bill.

So my question is dose your perfect packing pistol actually fit the definition of a perfect packing pistol?

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rcmodel
May 1, 2011, 06:24 PM
Yes they do.

I have several, including:
4 1/2" .44 Spl. S&W 1950 Target
4 3/4" .45 Colt Colt SAA
4" S&W 625-6 .45 ACP Mountain Gun
4" S&W Model 66 .357.

All four will handle anything that crawls or walks in Kansas.

I also have to throw in any number of auto pistols in that weight range, including a S&W Model 39 9mm, a SIG 9mm, and of course a couple of 1911 .45 ACPS.

All of them carry all day in a good holster quite nicely.

IMO: I've noticed a very high incidence / percentage of Morons on YouTube where it comes to all things gun related.

rc

StrawHat
May 2, 2011, 08:10 AM
Any of the mountain revolvers series from S&W (N frame with 4" skinny barrel") would qualify for me. I would favor either the 45 ACp or 45 long Colt chambering.

PapaG
May 2, 2011, 10:19 AM
Three in my "arsenal" are a 4" S&W 624 in 44 special loaded with Lyman 429421 hollow points cast from a "soft" lead/tin mix and over enough Unique for about 700 fps. No. 2 is a stock Blackhawk 4 5/8" in 45 Colt with the RCBS 45-255KT cast medium over about 850 fps worth of Unique. No. 3 is my 4" SS Security Six, Lyman 357446, 1-16, and enough 2400 to get me about 1050 fps.
On my little farm the biggest thing I'm going to encounter is a meth lab nutcase but most likely a rabbit stealing coyote or a sapling eating beaver.
Any one of those three does blow up a hedge apple quite nicely, though.

Brian Williams
May 2, 2011, 12:34 PM
My S&W 65 with a 64 pencil barrel is my packing pistol. Right now it has some Hogue Bantams on it and it works very well.
Moonclips make it sweet.
My favorite load is 180gr LRNFPGC over 15gr of Lil'Gun.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21910&d=1108998142

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21911&d=1108998157

Jeb21
May 2, 2011, 12:36 PM
My GP 100 is my perfect packing pistol, with its predecessor the Security Six running a close second.

CraigC
May 2, 2011, 12:47 PM
I agree, there is a distinct lack of IQ points on YouTube. Some of the things I see on there are just baffling. Definitely more than its fair share of morons and it does sound like some folks don't quite understand the concept of the Perfect Packin' Pistol.

PPP's are my favorite! Any 4" Colt SAA or replica will do. As will my sweet little custom Ruger flat-top .44Spl, S&W 629MG and even a good 1911. Although I prefer an all steel 5" for outdoor use. IMHO, an all-steel large frame Blackhawk is pushing it a little heavy but will work as well. Had to let the Uberti Bisley .44Spl go to a better home.

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_8074b.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_1152b.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/Uberti%20Bisley%2002.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/blackriver905/large/P1010062.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_0548.JPG

Malamute
May 2, 2011, 12:59 PM
I prefer a 4" 29 for most carry. Sort of getting used to it in the past neary 30 years.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1299.jpg


Like the Ruger in 45 Colt also. Have a Vaquero and Blackhawk, the sights on the Blackhawk are much better tho.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_2434.jpg

mbopp
May 2, 2011, 12:59 PM
My "walk in the woods" gun is my old 4" 19-3 carried in a belt holster. Not too big, not too small, accurate, and I can load it with .38 wadcutters all the way to full-up 357 loads.

minutemen1776
May 2, 2011, 01:29 PM
I expect that few people are aware the the "Perfect Packin' Pistol" is a term of art coined and specifically defined by John Taffin. For most people, colloquially speaking, a "packin pistol" is the equivalent of a CCW piece. For those of us who are "in the know," we're aware that a true Taffin-inspired PPP is a totally different animal. For me, it's a 50th Anniversary Blackhawk, chambered in .357 Magnum with a 4 5/8" barrel and adjustable sights.

Water-Man
May 2, 2011, 01:44 PM
The GP-100 fits the bill!

Rexster
May 2, 2011, 02:52 PM
Yes, my PPP candidates match JT's criteria pretty well. I like a bit of heft in a carry gun; a 4" to 5.5" medium to large-frame sixgun is what I prefer to shoot, and they balance very well in a good holster that rides comfortably on the belt. These six-guns conceal quite well, too, in normal street clothing, or at least what I consider normal.

If there is a better-balanced fightin' sixgun of moderate weight than the S&W Model 19, I don't know what it would be. When more shooting is planned, the GP100 gets the nod.

I work for a chief that expects me to pack either autopistols or DA revolvers, but when I retire, I may well tote SA sixguns at least some of the time. SAA-sized sixguns are eminently packable. The 1911 is the auto-loading counterpart of the medium/large revolver, and is also a PPP.

Effigy
May 2, 2011, 03:18 PM
I think you could pick any full-size pistol in 9mm or larger chambering. At this point it just becomes a "favorite gun" discussion since there's really no meaningful criteria other than being powerful and not tiny. Best CCW weapon is a more meaningful dicussion since there are a lot of considerations there and most pistols aren't a great fit for that role.

Personally I'd choose a full-size auto of some kind. Revolvers are fun to shoot, but I don't think they're very size efficient by comparison. The only real advantage is incredible reliability, but most quality autos are also reliable.

Red Cent
May 2, 2011, 03:23 PM
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Handguns/44Ruger002.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Handguns/03andRugeroldmodel45005.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Handguns/SWM29002.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Handguns/DanWesson005.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Handguns/Model10003.jpg

CraigC
May 2, 2011, 04:02 PM
I think you could pick any full-size pistol in 9mm or larger chambering. At this point it just becomes a "favorite gun" discussion since there's really no meaningful criteria other than being powerful and not tiny. Best CCW weapon is a more meaningful dicussion since there are a lot of considerations there and most pistols aren't a great fit for that role.

Personally I'd choose a full-size auto of some kind. Revolvers are fun to shoot, but I don't think they're very size efficient by comparison. The only real advantage is incredible reliability, but most quality autos are also reliable.
As was stated, it has little to do with concealed carry, pocket or strict self defense pistols, though the PPP could be pressed into that role if need be. Taffin coined the term and fairly explicitly defined it.

Jonah71
May 2, 2011, 04:52 PM
For OC....the old Security Six. For CCW G-23,26.

rcmodel
May 2, 2011, 05:02 PM
Just for the record, here is John Taffen's actual thoughts on the Perfect Packin Pistol.

http://sixguns.com/range/packinpistols.html

http://sixguns.com/range/perfect_packin_pistol.htm

rc

jrenscore
May 2, 2011, 05:35 PM
I'm partial to my Redhawk in 45 Colt. When in the neighborhood of black bears, it's stoked with 300 gr. Grizzly cartridges.

Red Cent
May 2, 2011, 06:13 PM
"Revolvers are fun to shoot, but I don't think they're very size efficient by comparison."

Ahhh.......plese expand the thought:cool:.

rcmodel
May 2, 2011, 06:24 PM
"Revolvers are fun to shoot, but I don't think they're very size efficient by comparison."Compared to what?

Find a bottom feeder that will handle the powerful big-bore hunting loads Taffen is talking about and get back to me.

BTW: The .44 & .50 Automag doesn't qualify as a Packin Pistol by any measure.

rc

Effigy
May 2, 2011, 06:59 PM
My mistake, I didn't realize this was supposed to be a revolver. The OP was mentioning auto pistols too.

sixgunner455
May 2, 2011, 07:25 PM
Taffin himself said that autos could fit his criteria - if they were chambered in .38 Super, 10mm, or .45 ACP.

Personally, I think it's a matter of personal taste. I pack a 9mm sometimes (CZ75, no lightweight), a .38 sometimes, and just got my first .357, a 3" RB Model 13-3 S&W. That one's gonna get packed a bit. I even think it's purrrfect.

StrawHat
May 3, 2011, 07:29 AM
rcmodel Just for the record, here is John Taffen's actual thoughts on the Perfect Packin Pistol.

http://sixguns.com/range/packinpistols.html

http://sixguns.com/range/perfect_packin_pistol.htm

rc

rc,

Thanks for posting the link for those of us who haven't committed Taffin's articles to memory! While he mentions the 45 ACP and the 10mm he definately prefers the revolver for a sidearm. But what would you expect from a disciple of Elmer Keith? As I have stated before, I like the 45 ACP cartridge and my platform of choice is the 4" N frame so chambered. It seems to fit with Taffins ideas for a PPP and mine for a concealed carry piece.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1415.jpg

Since this photo, I have carved a set of "boot" grips and it is a much handier package. Wish I would have carved the stocks back when I built this in the 80s.

Shaky
May 3, 2011, 01:44 PM
Gotta love the subjectivity of the word perfect. My ppp had long been a 22 lr revolver (and, yes, a 4" bbl). In the absence of big toothy critters, this was plenty for snakes and pine cones and such. One of the neighbors recently caught a panther on a trail cam, and I went to my 1911, relieving inanimate objects of much stress.

PabloJ
May 3, 2011, 03:15 PM
Unless you will have packing mule at your disposal I would look into S&W Night Guard or Night Stand or whatever that gun is called. Anyway it is constructed with light frame and short shrouded barrel and comes chambered for .44Mag, therefore, .44Special loads can be used to reduce guns substantial recoil force.
If you decide to go with one of the paperweights listed above and do not enjoy wearing pants or gun belt around your ankles be sure to get "Dirty Harry" harness or pair of Dickes 'Perry Suspenders' (available at belt department of local Walmart).

Mudinyeri
May 3, 2011, 03:25 PM
While I don't believe there's any such thing as "perfect", 15+1 rounds of 200 grain 10mm goodness make the Glock 20 a top contender, IMHO, for a PPP. I'm really happy with the combination of power and round count.

rcmodel
May 3, 2011, 03:32 PM
Half the battle of packin' a gun comfortably all day is picking a high quality holster that fits the gun & a wide stiff gun belt that fits you.

It will distrubate the load, and is not attached to your pants, so they don't fall down.

If you go cheap nylon holster, attached to your pants with a 1" dress belt, you will have problems packin' it all day, regardless of how light or heavy it is.

rc

Malamute
May 3, 2011, 04:09 PM
rcmodel Half the battle of packin' a gun comfortably all day is picking a high quality holster that fits the gun & a wide stiff gun belt that fits you.

It will distrubate the load, and is not attached to your pants, so they don't fall down.

If you go cheap nylon holster, attached to your pants with a 1" dress belt, you will have problems packin' it all day, regardless of how light or heavy it is.

rc

I agree. I carried a 4" Smith 29 all day every day for years without discomfort, same with other similar size guns. Having a decent rig makes a huge difference. It makes me smile to see some rigs some people use. They'll spend good money on a gun, but won't spend good money and a decent carry rig, then complain about how hard or uncomfortable it is to carry. Many seem to make up their mind how they're going to carry without much experience, and have similar issues with comfort. Some methods work well for some, some other ways work better for others, but a few seem to stand out in many different people experience as working well. Listening, and trying different ways can help get it sorted out. Having the belt loose and hanging down is a serious bummer, keeping it tight around my pants belt keeps it in place, from moving around and dragging your pants down. You definately don't want the holster to move when you pull your pistol, or not be where you expect it when you reach for it.

Most that carry much have a box of holsters that didnt work out as planned. May seem like wasted money to buy good quality holsters and not end up using them, but it's money well spent to me, it helps you figure out what works well. I've bought holsters other raved about, and hated them. Don't know if its just different opinions, or they just dont discriminate much as to function, fit and use.

Hunt480
May 3, 2011, 04:35 PM
After reading this thread I just realized I need to purchase a new gun with packin in mind. I hunt with all my handguns and I really never wanted the shorter barrels. The smallest SA I have is the 6.5" 41 Blackhawk it is my easiest packin gun at this time with meaningful power to kill game. All my other guns are 7.5" barrels or longer in bigger calibers. Im thinkin the 5" 44 Redhawk because you can easily install the fiber optic front site or the S&W 44 Mountain gun. There seems to be good comfortable holsters available for these guns also. Any suggestions?

iblong
May 3, 2011, 06:41 PM
Mine would be my 4" S&W 586 she's smooth and accurate.
Next in line would be one of my FS 1911's.

savit260
May 3, 2011, 09:59 PM
While not quite perfect yet... it's gettin there.

A new custom front sight should get it a good way there.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/savit260/Picture066.jpg

Bmac1949
May 3, 2011, 11:09 PM
I carry a CZ82. Mostly it stays in my truck. Hit's hard enough plenty of fire power especially with an extra clip in the holster and easily concealed. When I feel I need something stouter I'll take the Colt Commander 45ACP.

kenhwind
May 3, 2011, 11:29 PM
Colt Lighweight Commander .38 Super Auto caliber.

Tomcat47
May 3, 2011, 11:48 PM
I really love this little guy! Tomcat 3032

I know all the history with them, but it carries so well!

I would replace it with a new "Wide Slide" or Inox if it ever fails!

easyg
May 4, 2011, 09:49 AM
...if you use John Taffin's original definition of a relatively light weight handgun chambered in a sufficiently powerful cartridge for any task at hand with a 4" to 51/2" barrel. Adjustable sights are preferred but not mandatory.
Here are a few...

Ruger GP100
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/allenXdog/HPIM7164.jpg


Ruger P95
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/allenXdog/HPIM6391.jpg


Springfield Armory XD .45 Tactical
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/allenXdog/HPIM6525.jpg

BigN
May 4, 2011, 10:16 AM
If you can find a Taurus Tracker in 44 mag w/4" barrel that actually works, it's a perfect size for trail carrying:D

Dave T
May 4, 2011, 04:27 PM
Thanks for posting the link for those of us who haven't committed Taffin's articles to memory! While he mentions the 45 ACP and the 10mm he definately prefers the revolver for a sidearm. But what would you expect from a disciple of Elmer Keith? As I have stated before, I like the 45 ACP cartridge and my platform of choice is the 4" N frame so chambered. It seems to fit with Taffins ideas for a PPP and mine for a concealed carry piece.

(Picture didn't repro)

Since this photo, I have carved a set of "boot" grips and it is a much handier package. Wish I would have carved the stocks back when I built this in the 80s.

StrawHat,

And I thought my idea of a blue steel 45 ACP Mountain Gun was an original one (LOL). Might have known someone else would think of it too! Here's the one I had built from a M25-2 and an old Model of 1950 tapered 45 barrel.

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww224/desertarcher/SW%20N%20Frames/IMG_0253.jpg

I had this one out at the range on my last trip. Went though 20 full moon clips and was delighted with the performance and handling.

Dave

Rexster
May 4, 2011, 09:36 PM
Gentlemen, I am already seeing pocket pistols creeping into the discussion. I don't think any pocket pistol meets all of the characteristics of a packin' pistol. This is not about what is comfortable to keep in a pocket, but what is can be comfortably toted on a good sturdy belt, and able to handle a wide range of targets and circumstances as specified in Mr. Taffin's articles. This indicates serious service cartridges, at minimum, I would think. Serious sights are also necessary to handle the ranges involved.

I love my 3" .357 SP101, for example, but don't consider it a PPP candidate.

Rexster
May 4, 2011, 09:47 PM
The first "P" in PPP is an indication that the PPP is a lifelong quest, more so than something one buys off the shelf. Even with a good packin' pistol in one's possession, there is always the possibility that a different sight set-up, or custom grips, could enhance the whole package.

Moreover, advancing age changes things. My formerly strong right hand, for example, has become skinnier and bonier, so what once pointed well for me may no longer do so. I used to like black sights, but that is not the best for my eyes anymore, so I am researching gold beads, gold blocks, colored engraved lines, and even fiber optics, though I find the latter distasteful. (Yes, I am a lefty, but pack my primary on my right hip. Long story!)

It helps to have more than one near-perfect packin' pistol, so that there is something to carry while another pistol is away at a gunsmith.

OK, I will stop rambling now.

Justin Holder
May 5, 2011, 06:26 PM
A CZ 82/83 might pass as a trail/camp gun but it is not really a PPP.

A Tomcat as a PPP :eek:, well that's why I started this thread in the first place. :rolleyes:

I have two that qualify, a Glock 20 10mm and a Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8" convertible 45 colt/acp. But my search won't be done until I've amassed 30 or so. :evil:

tprice
May 5, 2011, 07:24 PM
I like my S&W model 66-7 4" loaded with either 357 mag leverevolution for woods carry or 38+p SWCHP of social work is expected. Cross carried in an Uncle Mike's pancake with two speedloaders.

Shadow 7D
May 5, 2011, 08:17 PM
Personally what ever works for you
be it a .40 auto, or a TTC
or even a revolver, what ever you feel like lugging, me I take something in 7.62 Tok, as it's Bear country, and no, I'm not talking about those black teddy bear creatures you have in the lower 48.

Usually, if I'm out, I like to take my Mossy 500, with a youth stock and 18.25 barrel, as it's going to get the job done, when a pistol, well, at least they will know you tried.

sonick808
May 5, 2011, 08:20 PM
my ppp is my glock 23. Which is rarely what i carry in AZ summer because of the heat and light clothing; ending up usually with a P32.

My god, there are some gorgeous revolvers in this thread though. wow. I almost choked when I saw CraigC's pictures. Sure wish I had the money to add some of those to the collection!

saltydog452
May 5, 2011, 08:33 PM
Unless I were to stumble onto a pot farm or a 'shine operation and couldn't back up, a K-22 would seem to suit my notion of a" 'packin pistol".

If I were stolling around the Re-Oh Grande, I'd want a platoon of GI-Renes for company.

salty

mr_goodbomb
May 5, 2011, 09:15 PM
My mistake, I didn't realize this was supposed to be a revolver. The OP was mentioning auto pistols too.

It's not "supposed to be a revolver," but if you're talking about the best tool to dig a hole, by definition the answer isn't "supposed to be" a shovel, but it will probably work best.

merlinfire
May 6, 2011, 04:50 PM
IMO: I've noticed a very high incidence / percentage of Morons on YouTube where it comes to all things gun related.

Just on youtube? XD

OP, sounds like a revolver in .357 or .45 colt or an auto in .45acp is really ideal. I mean, as long as we're not talking grizzly bears here, which I assume we're not.

BlackSky
May 6, 2011, 10:03 PM
My perfect packin pistol. A S&W 586 7 shot .357 with 4" barrel. It's on my side when ever I'm in the mountains, hunting, camping, fishing.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4148/58671.jpg

dnthmn
May 7, 2011, 07:16 AM
I'd gladly pack my EAA Witness 10mm just about anywhere. 15 rds of 10mm that can be loaded to mild .40 S&W to borderline .41 Mag should cover just about any need.

NMGonzo
May 7, 2011, 07:07 PM
sp101 with the heaviest and nastiest load.

dnthmn
May 8, 2011, 07:29 AM
sp101 with the heaviest and nastiest load.
Yikes! I don't want to be on either end of that! :eek:

content
May 8, 2011, 10:09 AM
Hello friends and neighbors // I switch between these two, a 6" S&W 586 or a DW 15-2 also 6".

The 586 is my main woods handgun.
I never minded the extra 2" or full lug but I am 6'4" 250 lbs and often carry a tool belt that far outweighs the 586.

141820141821

Depends if I am going straight into the woods to hunt or traveling and need a concealed option.
----
Malmute// The 4" S&W Model 29 in post #8 is outstanding in every way.
Looks like an old friend used to honest work, I've never seen better.

TexAg
September 8, 2011, 06:19 PM
I'm going to bring back this thread since it's not too old and I've had some Perfect Packin' Pistol thoughts recently. I too, am curious what others' PPP are. I've been doing some light hiking around Northern New Mexico with my family where apparently some black bears that are a bit too habituated to humans are hanging around and Mt. Lions have been spotted. I've been packing my father's old S&W model 19 4" and have come to appreciate it's PPP qualities. I've also carried a 6" GP100 and a 5.5" Old Vaquero in .45 Colt. The Model 19 really shines in it's ease of carry compared to the others. It's difficult to imagine a better suited gun for OWB carry with a decent amount of fire power than this. I've got 180 grain rounds loaded for penetration and don't feel at all undergunned for what animals are out here. My wife often carries a 637 with LSWCHP +Ps for back-up or if we're separated by much distance. I can see stepping up to a .44 or a .45 Colt, but it's hard to justify given how well this gun handles and carries. A stainless model 66 would be awfully tempting though.
So does anyone else have their version of a PPP?

wlewisiii
September 8, 2011, 07:00 PM
My idea of a PPP - Colt Model 357, 4" barrel, repro WWII pilot's shoulder holster:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ADlOllwONhI/TjcPkiEYUDI/AAAAAAAAD2E/Qdo_CItU-pY/s640/IMG_3102.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fDg3h5rgUsA/TjcPrd2Rt7I/AAAAAAAAD2U/G7TVJ5RFRGE/s640/IMG_3106.JPG

mavracer
September 8, 2011, 07:31 PM
As a true Keith/Taffin disiple myself I'm still on the quest. But just to name a few.
OM and 50th anniversary 357
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/SANY0895.jpg
Lipsey sheriff and Blackhawk 44 Special
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/IMG-20110407-00124.jpg
Colt and USFA 45 Colt SAAs
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/IMG-20110407-00117.jpg
S&W 1076 and 610 10MMs
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/IMG-20110805-00062.jpg
I know it's a 3" but I have faith John would approve S&W 696 44 special
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/SANY0850.jpg

montgomery381
September 8, 2011, 08:46 PM
I carry a glock 27 as my everyday ccw weapon and 9 times out of 10 when I out kicking around on the family farm it on my hip outside of my waistband. It doesn't meet your specs for barrel length. On the other hand .40 is plenty powerful enough for coyotes or wild dogs, which are the biggest threats aside from poachers. Its weight is great and with 11 rounds (+1 mag extension and one chambered) it has more than enough capacity. Sites are adjustable. Plus Glocks are not an overly attractive gun to begin with so if it gets a little ding it doesn't break your heart. Not to mention Glocks are proven tough and reliable. But if you must have the barrel length get a Glock 23 more rounds, 4 inch barrel and just a few more oz.

EastKY_DO
September 9, 2011, 10:51 AM
I don't get time to go woodsbumming like I want to anymore, but my cantidates for PPP run through the list.

Ruger GP-100, 4"
Ruger Blackhawk .357, 4 5/8"
Ruger Blackhawk .45 LC, 5 1/2"
Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 RM, 4 5/8"
Ruger Vaquero .45 LC, 4 5/8"

Sometimes the Ruger Redhawk .44 RM, 5 1/2", but it's just a tad heavy for a PPP, and I might also give the nod to the Glock 20 on some occasions, it just depends on where I'm going and what mood I'm in that day.

Doc

CraigC
September 9, 2011, 12:36 PM
Mavracer's definitely on the right track. That's a fine collection!

Snubs and pocket autos are definitely not in the spirit of the PPP. Nor are most service autos. A PPP must be something you can actually hit something with at distance.

Autos are definitely in the running and near about anything in 10mm or .45ACP can be a PPP. Here's a shot of my Commander-length Kimber.
http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsii/large/P1010141.JPG

I really do think a good 5" works too!
http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_8044b.jpg

mavracer
September 9, 2011, 01:33 PM
I really do think a good 5" works too!
dang skippy it can in 45acp:D
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/SANY0765.jpg
10MM:D:D
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/SANY0195.jpg
or 38 super:D:D:D
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/SANY0015.jpg

Justin Holder
September 10, 2011, 03:41 PM
Back to the top, this thread is too good to die.

Here are my current PPPs. A Ruger Blackhawk convertible .45 colt / .45 acp. and a Glock 20 10mm plus a conversion barrel in .40 S&W.

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad319/justin10mm/0012-1.jpg

Valkman
September 10, 2011, 06:19 PM
My PPP is my Kimber Compact CDP - super accurate 45 auto with all the features you need like melt, night sights, front strap checkering, etc.

Next would be one of my 4" XD45's - holds 13 rounds of felon repellant. :D

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo80/DLKnives/XD45/BothXD1.jpg

FMF Doc
September 10, 2011, 07:47 PM
When I am east of the Miss. and south of Canada, it's the trusty GP100 4.20" 357 in stainless. If the largest of Gentle Ben's relative are a real conscern, then I rely on my trust Glock 20. 15 rounds of 10mm as fast as I can pull the trigger may not save my life, but atleast whoever finds me will know I put up a hell of a fight when they find the brass.

PO2Hammer
September 10, 2011, 07:52 PM
I like my S&W 624 .44 spl & my Glock 29 10mm/.40 for packin'.

Hard to beat an N frame for smooth & accurate DA shooting and a stiff .44 spl load has nothing to apologize for.

The 29 is so light & easy to carry OWB and is outdoor accurate to boot.

-

harmon rabb
September 10, 2011, 09:58 PM
Revolvers are fun to shoot, but I don't think they're very size efficient by comparison.

Well, that kind of depends. If something like 38spl, sure. Move up to full bore 357mag loads, and, well, now things are different. You'd need a full size 10mm to match the ballistics you can get out of a relatively compact ruger sp101 loaded with hot stuff.

Ak.Hiker
September 11, 2011, 04:21 AM
I took mine on a hike today. It is the blued Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt-45acp convertable. The blued model is lighter than the stainless steel model so for me more enjoyable to pack around. The holster is an important part of the package. I like the Simply Rugged Sourdough Pancake. My favorite load to pack around is the Double Tap 255 grain Keith hardcast. I feel very well protected with this combination while on the trail. A number of years ago my first choice was my fathers 4 inch Colt Python. This one rode in a Kramer Pancake holster. Kept it loaded with a 180 grain hardcast. I gave it to my son a number of years ago. Back in the day my PPP was my only handgun. The S&W 1955 6.5 inch 45acp. This gun went on lots of hikes when I was a teen and into my early 20's. Lucky for me I still have it. When it still sees trail duty it is loaded with 250 grain hardcast handloads in 45 AR running at 950 or so. So I started out with a 45 at age 15 and still carry a 45 at age 57.

Ak.Hiker
September 11, 2011, 04:23 AM
Double post.

skidder
September 11, 2011, 05:06 AM
Well, this may surprise you, but an old beat to hell Llama 38. Whenever I reach for a packin gun this ugly mother gets to go for a ride. Sweet trigger and drives tacks like a 16 oz hammer.

The best $90 I ever spent, and I can't put it down. I know it don't add up, considering all my expensive handguns, but sometimes life just throws you curves.:scrutiny:

Ak.Hiker
September 11, 2011, 02:24 PM
Maby it's like an old favorite shirt with a worn out collar or an old pair of jeans. You have better stuff but somehow the worn things feel right at home.

jason kellogg
September 11, 2011, 03:44 PM
Damn all most all wheel guns, not the best for multiple shots. I prefer my s&w 1076 '10mm' 4 1/4 barrel.

336A
September 11, 2011, 05:26 PM
I prefer my Ruger BH .41 mag.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/336a/DSC00157.jpg

CraigC
September 11, 2011, 10:06 PM
Damn all most all wheel guns, not the best for multiple shots. I prefer my s&w 1076 '10mm' 4 1/4 barrel.
Do people really believe this foolishness???

skidder
September 12, 2011, 02:10 AM
Maby it's like an old favorite shirt with a worn out collar or an old pair of jeans. You have better stuff but somehow the worn things feel right at home.

Ak.Hiker-- I think you said exactly what I was trying to say. ;)

Kiln
September 12, 2011, 02:28 AM
Rohm RG23. I know alot of people love to hate RG pistols but both of my RG23 pistols have done alright. I carry my RG23 .22lr snub sometimes when I'm walking the property line checking fences and such. I've also used it when fishing for snakes.

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab47/Myguns223/Stuff/027.jpg

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab47/Myguns223/NewPictures020.jpg

mavracer
September 12, 2011, 10:39 AM
Do people really believe this foolishness???
Sadly yes

Dave T
September 12, 2011, 12:16 PM
Quote: Do people really believe this foolishness???
Sadly yes

Curious exactly which foolishness the two of you are referring to?

Dave

CraigC
September 12, 2011, 01:11 PM
The foolishness quoted, obviously.

JERRY
September 12, 2011, 01:16 PM
to me, a PPP is one that is slim, light, small enough to wear with minimal clothing, large enough to handle and shoot well, and of a service caliber.

with most any IWB rig the S&W 3913 type guns fit this bill to a T.

Racebannon
September 12, 2011, 04:32 PM
Here's a flat top Ruger BH .357 from 1960.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/WilliamTheConqueror/holsters003.jpg

jason kellogg
September 12, 2011, 10:49 PM
They are some sweet cowboy guns, what kinda finish is on the bottom gun on your first pic.

jason kellogg
September 13, 2011, 04:19 PM
The foolishness quoted, obviously.
I always believed that a revolver was the best protection simply because its a guarantee that it wont jam like auto's sometime do but after putting over a 1000 rounds through my S&W 4506 with out one problem i would go with an auto 'that i trust' and it seems 'all' police,fbi,military, and so on feel the same way.

snooperman
September 13, 2011, 05:28 PM
the Police and military are issued handguns that have a high capacity because they are faced with an offensive mode at times, not just defensive. Their needs today are different than in the past. That said , a man who knows how to use a revolver can empty his single action or double action revolver much faster than a man with a semi auto. In fact Jerry Miculik has shot his revolver and reloaded and shot 6 more shots faster than a man can shoot 12 shots from his Glock , and do it accurately. This can be done with single action revolvers as well.

snooperman
September 13, 2011, 05:39 PM
revolver with its 6 shots faster than the 6 shots from the semiauto. Reloading the singe action , of course is longer in time than the double action. Just to clarify.

skidder
September 13, 2011, 07:39 PM
Good thing you caught yourself, I was about to ream you for that.:D

CraigC
September 13, 2011, 09:20 PM
Without speedloaders, the DA has no advantage in reloading.

armoredman
September 13, 2011, 09:43 PM
I read Mr Taffens' requirements for a PPP, and none of mine meet his minimums. Oh well.

snooperman
September 13, 2011, 10:36 PM
that have been made up for me from the ones in John Taffin's wonderful book, "Sixguns". I try to read everything he writes as he does it so well. I have read his books so much and gawked at so many pictures of the fine guns therein that the pages have become ragged. He is one of the few gun writers I really like.

mavracer
September 13, 2011, 10:39 PM
armoredman don't you have a CZ97?

DAdams
September 14, 2011, 12:08 PM
PPP for me in revolver:
S&W L Frame 686 357 Magnum with 3 inch barrel.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Handguns/85bd2a77.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010009-4.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010010-4.jpg

With Hogue Grips and Bianchi 84R Holster flap can be on or off. Wilderness Instructor Belt.

With this setup you are going to have to be cut out of it because it isn't coming off even after the most brutal tumble.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/ezfitoib.jpg




Semi-Auto:
M&P Pro in 9mm with 5 inch barrel and 17 rounds or .40 Walther P99AS in 4.25 inch.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010002-4.jpg

Tallinar
September 14, 2011, 03:07 PM
Without speedloaders, the DA has no advantage in reloading.

I'd mostly agree, but a DA will still allow you to at least eject the spent cases all at once; and doesn't require you to rotate the cylinder manually after loading each chamber individually. If only break-top SA's were more affordable. =-'[

My best qualifying PPP would have to be my new Ruger Vaquero sheriff's model in .44 special.

CraigC
September 14, 2011, 04:52 PM
Yes but with practice an SA can be unloaded quickly. With a DA, you must deliberately grab and insert each cartridge into each chamber. At most two rounds at a time. With an SA, all you have to do is grab five or six rounds and drop them into the loading port one at a time. Gravity takes care of the rest. Tens of thousands of rounds through each has proven this to me time and again.

mavracer
September 14, 2011, 09:03 PM
Guys why are we arguing reload speed these are PPPs. We're out for a leasurily stroll, if BGs start to bother us these are powerful and accurate pistols, a few nasty head wounds they'll leave you alone.:what:

CraigC
September 14, 2011, 09:18 PM
Not arguing, just discussing. Some folks don't like to automatically presume that single action shooting 'has' to be a leisurely activity.

snooperman
September 14, 2011, 10:14 PM
In a gun fight between the two , I would place my bet on the man who can shoot the SA gun over the DA gun any day with the first shot fired. Even an old farmer like me, age 71, ain't bad with SA and most that I know are better than me.

jason kellogg
September 15, 2011, 11:43 AM
the Police and military are issued handguns that have a high capacity because they are faced with an offensive mode at times, not just defensive. Their needs today are different than in the past. That said , a man who knows how to use a revolver can empty his single action or double action revolver much faster than a man with a semi auto. In fact Jerry Miculik has shot his revolver and reloaded and shot 6 more shots faster than a man can shoot 12 shots from his Glock , and do it accurately. This can be done with single action revolvers as well.
i'm sorry but there's no way you or jerry M. can shoot faster than a auto even jerry M. says that the reason he keeps a 10lbs trigger is because "he cant get ahead of a revolver with a leaser weight trigger" meaning revolvers are slower to shoot, this is a quote from jerry him self.

snooperman
September 15, 2011, 12:07 PM
It is common knowledge that there are shooters, including Jerry Miculik, that can shoot the double action revolver with 6 shots then reload and shoot 6 more faster than a semiauto can empty 12 shots from a clip. I have seen this done several times. Call Smith & Wesson at 1-800 331-0852 and they will educate you on this subject.

snooperman
September 15, 2011, 12:18 PM
and what I said to you is true. You can contact their Academy, where Jerry Miculik is an associate there to get it from the "horse's mouth".

CraigC
September 15, 2011, 12:42 PM
A revolver is mechanically capable of being fired faster than an autoloading pistol. This much is well proven.

It is also undeniable fact that autoloaders are not as fast as folks would like to believe in delivering aimed fire. Mag dumps are another matter. For the first six shots, an auto shooter has ZERO advantage over a revolver shooter. However, the revolver shooter will ALWAYS Have the advantage of more powderful cartridges and simpler operating mechanisms. So Jason, your statement about "multiple shots" is completely bunk. Your lack of understanding of the PPP concept as outlined by Taffin is obvious.

mavracer
September 15, 2011, 01:27 PM
I always find it amusing that the first thing pointed out whenever SA revolver carry is brought up is reload speed. If you do the right thing and MOVE reload speed is much less of a factor than your ability to shoot on the move, if you can't shoot on the move then it's better to just move. If you think you'll just stand there and shoot dry cause you can reload like Miculik good luck.
Besides this PPP is for normal day to day stuff, I mean if there's reports of vermin prowling around or I'm riding into bad parts I take backup:rolleyes:

CraigC
September 15, 2011, 07:25 PM
I agree, runnin' and gunnin' ain't really in the job description.

jason kellogg
September 16, 2011, 12:12 PM
It is common knowledge that there are shooters, including Jerry Miculik, that can shoot the double action revolver with 6 shots then reload and shoot 6 more faster than a semiauto can empty 12 shots from a clip. I have seen this done several times. Call Smith & Wesson at 1-800 331-0852 and they will educate you on this subject.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=giSaNiQ-Wb4 'My humble apologies'

snooperman
September 16, 2011, 04:07 PM
Thanks for the Video on you tube. I am not always right either.

OregonJohnny
September 16, 2011, 04:52 PM
My PPP choices are:

Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum, 4.6" barrel, blued finish
Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum, 4.2" barrel, stainless finish
Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum, 4.2" barrel, stainless finish

All 3 of those fit Taffin's PPP idea pretty well. However, the Redhawk is the largest and heaviest handgun I own, the Super Blackhawk has it's limitations (with my skills) in rate of fire and reloading ease, and the GP100 itself is pretty dang big and heavy for a .357. So another idea I've had for a PPP, in areas where you have no chance of brown bear encounter, is this:

An all-steel, stainless, government size 1911 in .45 ACP, with rubber, micarta or G10 grips, heavy recoil and magazine springs, and tested for reliability with one of the following rounds:
- Buffalo Bore .45+P 255-grain hardcast lead flat nose at 960 fps. (my personal chrono results)
- Buffalo Bore .45+P 230-grain FMJ flat point at 980 fps. (advertised velocity)

I tend to shoot better and faster with large semi-auto handguns, anyway. The idea of a crisp single-action trigger pull, and 8 quick rounds of heavy flat .45 caliber bullets zipping along near original .45 Colt numbers sounds pretty good as a woods gun.

Plus, a flat semi-auto which is hardly more than 1" thick, and weighs only 40 oz., would be a lot easier to conceal (if the need arose in more populated trail areas) than my massive Redhawk.

armoredman
September 16, 2011, 09:50 PM
armoredman don't you have a CZ97?
Nope, my carry pistols are my CZ P-01 and SP-01 Phantom right now, plus Smith 10-8. The two pistol calibers I own don't meet the good man's personal "pshaw" level, being 9mm and 38 Special. :) Guess I will "Imperfectly Pack". :D

Ak.Hiker
September 17, 2011, 01:34 AM
An all-steel, stainless, government size 1911 in .45 ACP, with rubber, micarta or G10 grips, heavy recoil and magazine springs, and tested for reliability with one of the following rounds:
- Buffalo Bore .45+P 255-grain hardcast lead flat nose at 960 fps. (my personal chrono results)
- Buffalo Bore .45+P 230-grain FMJ flat point at 980 fps. (advertised velocity)
I like your thoughts on the 1911 and load selection.

CraigC
September 22, 2011, 12:06 PM
My lone DA PPP, a pre-lock 629MG tuned by Bob Munden:
http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_8763b.jpg

NMGonzo
September 22, 2011, 07:11 PM
3 inch sp101 with he hottest buffalo bore I could find.

jon86
September 22, 2011, 07:19 PM
My sorry excuse for a PPP is a glock in 40 S&W with fmj's. I hope to get a 3 inch SP101 soon. I only posted in here because this is one of the coolest threads on THR, and some of you have awesome pictures of your PPP's.

NOLAEMT
September 22, 2011, 11:03 PM
Ive got a Smith 686 plus "pro series" with a 5" barrel that serves in this role for me.

The slab sided barrel helps keep weight down, it is extremly accurate, and I have it set up with a fiber optic front that makes for fast target aqusition.

149690
I carry it with either:

158 grain xtp loaded with about 16.5 grains H110
180 grain Cast performance gas checked, with 13.4 grain H110

I havent had a chance to chrono either of these loads yet, but they are pretty stout.

or in the city, or during duty as a bedside gun:

Double tap 125 grain gold dots that chrono at just over 1700 fps in my gun.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
September 23, 2011, 12:55 AM
for me its this

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/GF8/DSC_1342.jpg

i have personally put over 6K through it without a single hiccup. no matter if its cheap tula ammo or JHP carry ammo it just eats it all and thanks me for it.

its light weight, carries 14+1 in .40 and i can draw and fire 2 rnds in the 10 ring at 15 yards in roughly 2.5 seconds so that works for me.

stillkickin
September 23, 2011, 01:04 AM
same here

BigShep85
September 23, 2011, 11:06 AM
I love them and was wondering where you gottem, Thanks.

Hobie
September 23, 2011, 12:20 PM
So my question is dose your perfect packing pistol actually fit the definition of a perfect packing pistol?
The PPPs and the snubs are about all the revolvers I buy. I do have some Colt .45 semi-autos...

CraigC
September 23, 2011, 02:17 PM
I love them and was wondering where you gottem, Thanks.
They're Altamont bonded ivory. Quite heavy and dense, not like the cheap polymer grips you often see. Relatively comfortable, moreso than the Ahrends Retro Target round-to-square butt conversion grips I bought for it. I don't see it listed on the website anymore though. Might want to call them.

http://www.altamontco.com/products/pistol/smith_and_wesson/N-Frame/index.php

Buck Snort
September 23, 2011, 05:52 PM
IMO: I've noticed a very high incidence / percentage of Morons on YouTube where it comes to all things gun related. rc


I've notice quite a number of morons on YouTube under ANY topic!

Ak.Hiker
September 24, 2011, 02:15 AM
The 180 grain cast BB is a very good load out of my 3 1/16 inch SP 101 if you are looking for deep penetration. For a SD load I do like the Federal 125 grain JHP.

carbuncle
September 24, 2011, 01:57 PM
I don't have one yet, but once I start handloading I want to pick up a modern 4" barrel revolver in .45 LC as my PPP. I love the .45 LC, and with a good load it would be ideal for deep woods travel in my area.

shadow9
September 25, 2011, 04:14 AM
IMO: I've noticed a very high incidence / percentage of Morons on YouTube where it comes to all things gun related.

Remember, half of 'em aren't actually edumacated on gun-stuff, they play Call of Duty. Or they're local Airsoft War heroes, and now they got a "reel-verson of theyre airsoft gun!"

That said, I'm saving up for my Perfect Packin' Pistol - the BlasTech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistol. :p

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f6/DL-44_in_holster.jpg(Image credit of starwars.wikia.com)

In real life? Gotta be my Steyr M40A1 at the moment, but I really can't pack her, as I don't have a good OWB holster, nor is any part I'll be around soon friendly to walking around with a gun on your hip. :scrutiny:

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee429/midnatt264/100_1283.jpg

Cokeman
September 25, 2011, 07:35 PM
That said, I'm saving up for my Perfect Packin' Pistol - the BlasTech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistol. :p

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f6/DL-44_in_holster.jpg(Image credit of starwars.wikia.com)

That's almost exactly my carry rig and gun. :cool:

leeroy71
October 4, 2011, 03:17 PM
Cool thread. Although there too many autos. To each his own i guess. Its my opinon, that Mr. Taffin was referring to a gun YOU could carry comfortably AND handle Any shot situation that you may encounter. That being said; if in a threatening situation, hitting and disabling the threat with the first shot is by far more important than reload time.

dscampbell
October 4, 2011, 07:25 PM
Either my ruger blackhawk or security six stokes with .357 mag loads

Dr.Rob
October 5, 2011, 05:30 PM
One old rock hound ceratinly thought this fit the bill:

6 inch Colt Official Police in .32-20

The Bauer Brothers holster is very much like a Hunter holster.. it snaps on and off any belt easily.

That really makes 'packing' it not require much else. It rides close to the body and in cross draw doesn't interfre with me getting in and out of a vehicle.

Just about any 4 inch revolver or auto with this 'close to the body' set up would be just fine. If you have a heavier piece a dedicated gun belt is a must.

With the right holster and belt packing all day isn't much of a chore.

PoserHoser
October 5, 2011, 08:20 PM
My lone DA PPP, a pre-lock 629MG tuned by Bob Munden:

Thats a BEAUTY!

CraigC
October 5, 2011, 08:41 PM
Thank you!

Kiln
October 6, 2011, 07:00 AM
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f6/DL-44_in_holster.jpg(Image credit of starwars.wikia.com)
[/IMG]
Anybody else notice the extremely strong resemblance of the blaster pistol to those old broomhandle Mausers? MIND BLOWN.

CraigC
October 6, 2011, 09:15 AM
Most of the original Star Wars guns were based on something.

dprice3844444
October 6, 2011, 09:25 AM
magnum research bfr 7 1/2 bbl 45/70

CraigC
October 6, 2011, 10:50 AM
magnum research bfr 7 1/2 bbl 45/70
As a "packin' pistol"???

harmon rabb
October 6, 2011, 07:47 PM
3 inch sp101 with he hottest buffalo bore I could find.
That would be my answer too. Light enough to carry all day without issue, powerful enough for most shooting duties.

480 Alaskan
October 6, 2011, 09:29 PM
my woods gun 480 Alaskan
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/123jonpoe/SN851047.jpg
and my daily carry G23
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/123jonpoe/SN851095.jpg

Ak.Hiker
October 7, 2011, 02:10 AM
I need to add one more perfect packing pistol. I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull that started out with a 7.5 inch barrel. I had it cut down to 5.5 inches. It is not much heavier than my 44 Magnums. Lots of power in a very packable package. I chose 5.5 inches as a nice balance between packing and good performance with such a powerful load.

Legionnaire
October 7, 2011, 11:47 AM
Well, I don't know if any one of them is "perfect," but I like:

4-inch stainless GP100
3-inch stainless GP100
3-inch stainless 629-1

Haven't carried it yet, but really like my Pietta 1858 Remington "Sheriff" model in a crossdraw rig. Have carried it around the house/yard, but not in the woods yet. Soon ...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=147162&d=1313093719

osteodoc08
October 7, 2011, 09:17 PM
Depends on what I'm "packin" for. During summer months poking around the woods I really like my ruger single six. In cooler weather I'll bring my stainless ruger bisley in 41 mag.

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