Purchased broken gun, lesson learned


PDA






mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 12:11 PM
I purchased a used shotgun from a pawn shop. He spoke highly of it, but don't they always? I got no warning of any issues or that, if there were any once I purchased it, it was not their problem, but "all sales final" is posted on the wall. He told me it worked fine. I let a friend look it over and he noticed a lot of pitting. They didn't have or offer a light at pawn shop, so I wouldn't have noticed, but that's not what bothered me. It wouldn't cycle, and wouldn't latch with a shell in the chamber, so it'd be extremely unsafe to fire. There was no way of knowing that in the shop, short of trying to cycle shells or snap caps, which I don't exactly keep on me or try to cycle in a shop. The scene from Terminator comes to mind.

I took it back to the shop, and the wench at the register just pointed to the "all sales final" sign and told me it was my problem, and it isn't their responsibility to know if the products they sell function or not. They look at it, and if it looks functional, they sell it. I told them they'd no longer have a customer of many years (I got in every few weeks, usually just buy DVDs and such, but I always check to see if anything decent comes in) and she shrugged.

Yes, I should have inspected it better, but other than trying to cycle shells through it in the shop, there was no way of knowing. It was a Stevens 67, so fixing it was basically pointless. There's basically no takedown of that one without metal work. Just a warning to others, I haven't seen an establishment that wouldn't assist a customer with a total defective item in years, so I was pretty astounded. Luckily I didn't spend much.

If you enjoyed reading about "Purchased broken gun, lesson learned" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
chevyman097
May 4, 2011, 12:21 PM
Like you said. Lesson learned. I have also learned my lessons. I am VERY leary of buying from anyone with a policy that states all sales final if I cant look at the product to make sure its functional. Im also very leary of pawn shops period just from experience. If I get that bad feeling, I just tell myself no.

I also always take a small light with me. Ask lots of questions and insist they have some kind of return policy even if it be 24 hours. I take any firearm straight to the favorite shooting spot.

GL in the future, sorry for the bad apple. Be careful in the future they are out there.

seuadr
May 4, 2011, 12:27 PM
you could use it to hold your cleaning rods? :/

joshk-k
May 4, 2011, 12:29 PM
Sorry for that! Sounds like a real bad situation and really poor customer service. Hopefully you're not too in the hole, dollar-wise, on the deal.

On a side note, would you like someone calling your mother a "wench," regardless of her customer service?

Josh

clem
May 4, 2011, 12:30 PM
Tell us more about the shotgun. Some times the problem is just "assembled wrong" and as far as the barrel and parts, they can be found.

mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 12:49 PM
On a side note, would you like someone calling your mother a "wench," regardless of her customer service?

Josh

I actually replaced the original word I had with something less NSFW. If my mother were an awful person, nasty and deliberately scummy as this woman was... I probably wouldn't be as defensive of her honor, with which this woman in question has none.

Tell us more about the shotgun. Some times the problem is just "assembled wrong" and as far as the barrel and parts, they can be found.

It's a Model 67. Give it a Google. Most people who've found issues with them have been told "just toss it" because fixing it is, best case scenario, more expensive than it's worth, and at worst, not going to be possible or help much.

Searcher4851
May 4, 2011, 01:11 PM
I reckon I'm just a little old fashioned. "ALL sales final" is a pretty clear warning flag.. If I don't know what I'm looking at, or can't make a determination as to condition / functionality, I'd just walk away.
You pay your money, you take your chances. YOU assumed the risk by not walking away. I wouldn't expect a pawn shop to have much expertise that I'd count on, and I wouldn't expect to be able to return it to them when their warranty policy is clearly posted. Instead of a firearm, you bought a decoration. If you actually LEARNED the lesson, as you stated, it was a cheap lesson that can pay off much more by saving you from a much costlier "lesson" in the future. I think you actually came out ahead in the long run.

Blackbeard
May 4, 2011, 01:13 PM
I'm no lawyer, but I believe any sale comes with an implied warranty of merchantability. If he represents it as a functioning shotgun, and it doesn't function as a shotgun, then he owes you either a repair or a refund. This is what small claims court is for.

Signs on the wall don't excuse him from his responsibility to sell goods that work as intended.

mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 01:27 PM
I reckon I'm just a little old fashioned. "ALL sales final" is a pretty clear warning flag.. If I don't know what I'm looking at, or can't make a determination as to condition / functionality, I'd just walk away.
You pay your money, you take your chances. YOU assumed the risk by not walking away. I wouldn't expect a pawn shop to have much expertise that I'd count on, and I wouldn't expect to be able to return it to them when their warranty policy is clearly posted. Instead of a firearm, you bought a decoration. If you actually LEARNED the lesson, as you stated, it was a cheap lesson that can pay off much more by saving you from a much costlier "lesson" in the future. I think you actually came out ahead in the long run.

I don't take "all sales final" to be a warranty. I take it to be a "no returns" policy. I don't see bringing back something that didn't work from the moment it left the store, and while it was in the store, to be a "return." Maybe I expect a bit more honesty from people. I buy and sell online all the time, but every retailer, no matter what their return policy, will accept an item that never functioned for a refund. In fact, most are legally bound to.

mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 01:29 PM
I'm no lawyer, but I believe any sale comes with an implied warranty of merchantability. If he represents it as a functioning shotgun, and it doesn't function as a shotgun, then he owes you either a repair or a refund. This is what small claims court is for.

Signs on the wall don't excuse him from his responsibility to sell goods that work as intended.

It wouldn't be worth small claims. Just the filing is $75, and I'm sure these scum have gotten into enough trouble that they have a lawyer on hand. I agree with your statement, though.

JoeMal
May 4, 2011, 01:32 PM
The pawn shop might not have even known it was broken...sorry to hear about that though

mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 01:44 PM
The pawn shop might not have even known it was broken...sorry to hear about that though

That shouldn't alleviate a seller's responsibility. I buy and sell all the time, generally musical instruments and camera equipment, and I'll tell you, "I didn't know" is never a valid excuse to stick a buyer with non-working products.

Good&Fruity
May 4, 2011, 03:07 PM
I wouldn't drop a deuce in a pawn shop, let alone patronize one, for this very reason. They are known for this kind of nonsense.

Mags
May 4, 2011, 03:16 PM
I don't buy guns FTF I can't dry fire or function check.

Six
May 4, 2011, 03:44 PM
I wouldn't drop a deuce in a pawn shop, let alone patronize one, for this very reason. They are known for this kind of nonsense.

And that's why I stop in pawn shops now and then. Because you might stumble across a treasure in all the junk. And if you want a beat up shotgun or .22 rifle for cheap, they're great.

But, you take your chances, that much should be obvious.

gym
May 4, 2011, 03:50 PM
In the state of FL there is a 3 day return allowed on anything you purchase, look into it. I owned a gym, and no matter what we told people they could get a refund during the first 3 days no matter what, just because they changed their mind, So call the Dept of Agriculture, "they handle that stuff, don't ask why" or go to FL .Gov, and either copy and print the law" or call the state. It's not voluntary it's mandatory, as long as it's FL, your state if an other one may vary. Also your CC card company if you used it, "you should with this kind of deal" will back you up 100%. They will deduct the payment from his account immediatlly if it's amex, and he will wait for a ruling, 4-6 weeks. You screwed up but he screwed you so it's a wash.

dogmush
May 4, 2011, 04:35 PM
An exploded view (http://www.wisnersinc.com/exploded_views/Sav_Stev_pumps.htm) was pretty easy to find. Take it apart and see what's wrong before you get too wound up.

I think it is taken as given that pawn shops don't test stuff before they sell it, I wouldn't expect them to know whether it worked or not.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
May 4, 2011, 04:48 PM
I have a Savage/Springfield 67H that was my dad's. I completely broke it down, refinished the front and rear stocks and basically have like a brand-new gun! He hunted with me a lot after he bought it around '67, however, he hardly ever shot it because the 12 was a bit too intimidating to him.

So, he gave it to me about six months ago as I told him if anything ever happens to him I would like that gun, I even offered to refinish the stock for him for free and clean it all up!

I just used some Formby's Refinisher which basically melted the original finish off and within twenty minutes I was looking at brand new wood with just a bit of color from the original coat. It appeared to be like a translucent paint. Anyway, I put about four coats of satin polyurethane on it and I cannot get over how well it turned out!

When I look at all the moving parts, the gun is just broken in!

Try Numrich Gun Parts.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Search.aspx?filter=Stevens+67H
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Schematics.aspx

I think, for not too much money, you could make that gun good again!

mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 04:48 PM
An exploded view (http://www.wisnersinc.com/exploded_views/Sav_Stev_pumps.htm) was pretty easy to find. Take it apart and see what's wrong before you get too wound up.

I think it is taken as given that pawn shops don't test stuff before they sell it, I wouldn't expect them to know whether it worked or not.

There isn't much "taking it apart." Just to disassemble it requires metal work, more or less. You can Google the model and find plenty of people saying the same.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
May 4, 2011, 04:49 PM
I have never shopped in a pawn shop and I barely ever buy anything used, even vehicles~!

My theory is "I don't want to buy someone else's problem/junk!"

Now, my brother can buy anything used and he always makes out like a bandit! I cannot get over stuff he buys for nearly nothing and it is all like new!

Anything I buy used is either already broken or halfway there!

chevyman097
May 4, 2011, 05:34 PM
The exploded view linked appears to have lots of screws and pins. I dont see what "metal work" would be needed. Can you please explain? Heck maybe some one would buy it off you, it seems you arent willing to put much work into trying to fix it.

dogmush
May 4, 2011, 06:00 PM
There isn't much "taking it apart." Just to disassemble it requires metal work, more or less. You can Google the model and find plenty of people saying the same.

Your Google-Fu is weak.

Disassembly video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8MZ6OyQ5Ss)

Take it apart. $10 says it's something simple, and if it's not, folks here can tell you how to fix it. Pump shotguns just aren't that complicated.

mr_goodbomb
May 4, 2011, 06:41 PM
I already got rid of it. I don't want that junk.

dogmush
May 4, 2011, 06:44 PM
Well you got hosed on one end or the other of that deal then. Sorry for your luck.

W.E.G.
May 4, 2011, 07:06 PM
Love that guy's screwdriver technique at the beginning of the disassembly vid, and then the camera bouncing while he's "pounding the pin out..."

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/smileys/rolling.gif

chevyman097
May 5, 2011, 12:29 AM
meh to each his own. A gun isnt a piece of crap until you throw it in the trash.....then sometimes it still isnt.

Some people are too scared/insecure to take a gun all the way down screws, springs, nuts, bolts. But I find it as fun or enjoyable. You cant break it if you think its broke. I would have loved to work on it just to learn a thing or two, or waste some time. You know it might not be pretty and it might need repairs, but one day it might be worth a good penny. It goes bang, its reliable, its a gun. its worth something.

hell if you still have it send me a pm, ill pay you what you paid and cover shipping.

malpaismike
May 5, 2011, 01:04 AM
Hello the camp! Obviously a day late and a dollar short, but I had a similar experience with a 67. Mine came in a 4-gun pkg that, to be blunt, was a divorce get-over-on-the-b____. Ther other arms were just fine; all were trade bait, but I still have the Mk ll. I gave the shotgun to a work pard's son; his g'pa was a retired tool-&-die guy and had that apart and working in a weekend. According to my pal, he had to turn a pin in his garage shop to replace a broken part. What the hey; I wasn't out much, in the long run, and a kid thanked me profusely. Blind pigs and acorns. See ya round the campfire. mm

potmetal
May 5, 2011, 01:02 PM
We have a website and forum for state wide shooters here. Whenever someone gets hosed by a gun shop/pawn shop, it gets posted on the forum to warn others about situations just like this.
If you have one in your state, join it, it's a great source of info and support. Then, let them know about what happened to you so it won't happen to others.
Thankfully, pawn shops around here have a pretty good return policy. Most guarantee that a gun will work, at least in the short term anyway.
Good luck to you.

saturno_v
May 5, 2011, 02:01 PM
Besides the big box stores (Cabela's, etc..) I reduced my small shop buying to only one store which let's you inspect the guns before buying, has a gunsmith among the staff and take care of any problem you may have with any of their used guns for free.

I have very little sympathy for many small gun stores...they would win the prize for being pigheaded and unfriendly.

HOOfan_1
May 5, 2011, 08:56 PM
I reckon I'm just a little old fashioned. "ALL sales final" is a pretty clear warning flag.. If I don't know what I'm looking at, or can't make a determination as to condition / functionality, I'd just walk away.
You pay your money, you take your chances. YOU assumed the risk by not walking away. .

indeed
caveat emptor

however
caveat venditor as well.

They lost his business...and may lose further business as he advertises their policy. His complaining of poor service is no more petty than their refusal to refund money for defective merchandise they sold.

mr_goodbomb
May 5, 2011, 09:20 PM
indeed
caveat emptor

however
caveat venditor as well.

They lost his business...and may lose further business as he advertises their policy. His complaining of poor service is no more petty than their refusal to refund money for defective merchandise they sold.

The world is changing, and I think "caveat emptor" will be dead soon. With online vendors forcing their merchants to adhere to decent customer service policies, places like PayPal protecting their users outside of Ebay as of November, and everyone being lawsuit happy to such a degree, I think places like this will die out, and I'll be there to piss on the grave. I'm just always somewhat surprised to see that people who think this sort of thing is still acceptable, ethically and morally as well as from a business level, is still operating.

Black Butte
May 5, 2011, 09:25 PM
Unless the pawn shop had an "as is" clause, the implied warranty of merchantability gives you some leverage. It basically says the seller extends to the buyer and implied warranty that the item sold will function for its intended purpose. In this case, the shotgun clearly does not function.

gym
May 6, 2011, 08:12 PM
Well your 3 days are gone now

Ignition Override
May 6, 2011, 09:20 PM
mr_goodbomb: I was sorry to read about it.

Having just sold my Mini 30 FTF today, the temptation to visit about three pawn shops crossed my mind, but they would not have a scarce rifle type (Spanish FR8) which interests me.

After your warning, I will no longer consider a purchase from any, and have never bought anything in a pawn.

Gun shows should be a better situation, but some sellers either don't know anything about guns they sell for a friend, say nothing about the history or function/serious concerns (Spanish 7 mm converts to .308) and know more than they will admit to.
So what is the difference? And many expect that you will buy a gun with a dirty bore... truly amazing.

Hope that you can somehow benefit from the rest of the gun's components, or can sell them.

o Unforgiven o
May 6, 2011, 09:23 PM
I already got rid of it. I don't want that junk.
Just out of curosity, what did you do with it?

If you enjoyed reading about "Purchased broken gun, lesson learned" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!