Curious about the jacket performance of Ranger Talons


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Snowdog
January 13, 2004, 01:58 PM
After testing a few rounds of Winchester Rangers, I found performance that differed from that of the original Black Talons.

I noticed after testing some recently manufactured Rangers that the "talons" were not protruding at a 90 degree angle from the expanded bullet as they do with the earlier Black Talons. In fact, they were hardly deployed at all, seemingly still folded against the petals and contributing very little to overall performance. Both Winchester loads were tested from the same pistol (Kimber with 5" barrel) against the same medium (Playdough clad with 2 layers of denim). The difference between the two is quite noticeable.

Though I could not find the expanded bullets for the 147gr 9mm Black Talons I tested a few years back to compare against the 127gr Rangers I recently tested, I did manage to find some .45acp Black Talons to compare against the newer Rangers.

The below photo shows an expanded SXT (top), a Black Talon (lower right) and a Ranger (lower left). Notice how pronounced the talons are on both the Ranger and Black Talon, and at what angle they protrude. Included are some of the 9mm 127gr +P+ Rangers. Though expansion was a sure bet even after several layers of denim, they displayed the same "undeployed talons" as found with the Ranger .45acps.

Perhaps I merely have too much time on my hands, but it appears the jackets on the Rangers don't perform as they used to on the Black Talon.
What's the advantage of Rangers over other high velocity premium ammunition if the talons don't deploy?

Here's my question: did Winchester change the design of the jacket any when switching names from Black Talon to Ranger Talons?


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pa2fd66950cc198b3311f5777e0236deb/f9f58942.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pf938d88c34bfc8db47a61debf062fd9a/f9f5893b.jpg

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C. H. Luke
January 13, 2004, 03:07 PM
Here's some info that may be of interest:


http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs2.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

Thanks for the photo's!

DigMe
January 13, 2004, 04:20 PM
I generally buy my ammo based on penetration/expansion tests along with the kind of terminal wound research info that Fackler and Roberts have to offer. Doesn't really matter to me if the talons deploy or not as long as tests and real world results indicate that the round works consistently and as long as it shoots well out of my guns. Win. ranger seems to be at the top of that criteria.

brad cook

garrettwc
January 14, 2004, 12:40 AM
Snowdog, check out the 9MM tests and discussions at www.ammolab.com You should be able to find detailed answers to your questions there.

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