Building a bolt-action rifle with a suppressor in mind


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Shmackey
May 9, 2011, 12:44 AM
I had a bolt-action rifle project all thought out when I realized I'd like to use it with a suppressor. The caliber was going to be .308 but now I'm not so sure.... Long question short, for shooting 100 to 500 yards, with a suppressor, what are some ideal calibers to consider? (For that matter, what are any other things to consider if the whole thing is being built from the ground up anyway?)

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PTK
May 9, 2011, 03:00 AM
.300 Whisper/.300-221 Fireball/.300 Blackout. It's 30 cal, uses from 110gr to 220gr, heavier bullets are subsonic and ideal to shoot with a silencer, it's quite accurate, and 5.56/.223 actions are perfect length for it. You can even go with a semi-auto if you so choose, but there are barrels available for .223 bolt actions such as certain Remington and Savage rifles which are quick and easy to install.

That's what I'd do, anyway. ;)

jmorris
May 9, 2011, 10:20 AM
Those are good suppressed but not so great out past 200 yards. Just stick with the 308 and load subsonic if you don't want the extra noise. You are going to want the extra speed for the longer shots.

dprice3844444
May 9, 2011, 10:56 AM
look at the savage 110 i think it is.easy to change barrels and krieger/criterion can make one to any length/configuration you need,even chrome line it.
http://www.tobystactical.com/2007/11/remington-700-ss-5r-milspec.html

read this article and subsection.you can have a savage 110 bbl built in this rifling,20 inch bbl threaded for a silencer and chrome lined

Zak Smith
May 9, 2011, 01:19 PM
This is less about the suppressor and more about the rifle. Mid and long-range shooting pretty much requires full power ammunition.

http://demigodllc.com/photo/CGMG-2006.11/icon/D100_3368_img.jpg
article | Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting, Part I - Rifle & Equipment http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/)

Sheepdog1968
May 9, 2011, 01:52 PM
The new bolt action Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle in .308 comes with a threaded flash hider that has threads that are in common use for a surpressor. Prices seem to be in the $750-800 range. Also, it's magazine fed. Might be an quick and easy way to get to the rifle you want.

Shmackey
May 9, 2011, 02:18 PM
Thanks for the info, everyone.

Zak, at what distance does midrange shooting begin?

(An AR-10T like the one we shot with Alan years ago is the other possibility if I stick with .308.)

Zak Smith
May 9, 2011, 02:26 PM
For the purposes of my last post: where a 240gr fired at 1100 fps is ballistically ineffective.

This is actually closer than what I would consider mid-range with a full-power .308.

If I had to draw lines, I'd say short range is 0-300, mid 300-600, long 600-1000. But that's pretty much arbitrary based on some different factors.

If you're thinking about a mid/long-range rifle and the suppressor is incidental, it's no different than picking a good LR rifle.

If you want something as quiet as possible, your max realistic engagement range is limited dramatically. A .300 fireball shooting a 240gr SMK at 1100 fps will have as much drop at 300 yards that a regular .308 has at 1000. At 300 yards, it's dropping roughly one inch per yard.

If you want a demo of any of this stuff we can probably arrange it.

Shmackey
May 9, 2011, 03:06 PM
Cool. Let's say one were looking at the Remington 84203 (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx) as a reasonable way to get a 700 action with an already threaded barrel. Is the 1-in-10 twist a problem for lighter bullets? Seems quite tight for .308 (by design, of course).

451 Detonics
May 9, 2011, 03:33 PM
I shoot a suppressed Ruger 77 heavy barrel .308. With sub sonic ammo (very easy to load with Trail Boss powder) it is both very accurate as well as being very quiet. Mine is an old school build using a long can. Today it all about short and light but I don't think they do nearly as well as far as sound reduction. The barrel on my rifle was turned down and a shroud provided so without the can it looks like a standard heavy barrel without any threads showing.

You can hear it here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LF4QpZMeVU

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/ruger772.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/ruger773.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/ruger771.jpg

I am planning a .338 Whisper Incognito built on a Remington 700 action. This will be an integrally suppressed barrel that will look like a bull barrel rifle.

Zak Smith
May 9, 2011, 03:40 PM
That Remington should be fine. 1:10 is fine.

For 240's you probably want a faster twist.. my Fireball is 8 or something like that. But there's not a big ballistic advantage to high BC subs, so you don't need to shoot the heaviest bullets unless you want to for the ooph.

Keep in mind it's only around $120 to thread a barrel so you don't need to buy it already threaded if the rifle you'd want doesn't come that way.

PTK
May 9, 2011, 06:23 PM
Sorry about that, folks. I somehow missed the 500 yard part of the equation and saw the 100 yards only. :)

LiquidTension
May 9, 2011, 08:17 PM
I've got one of the 700 AACs on order. I believe the 1:10 twist is ideal for 175gr and over but should work fine for lighter bullets at ranges under 600 yards.

What cans are you looking at? This is the NFA forum after all :)

Shmackey
May 9, 2011, 08:43 PM
What cans are you looking at? This is the NFA forum after all :)
Probably Zak's, of course. :)

GunTech
May 12, 2011, 12:12 PM
Getting anything subsonic to hit with authority at 500 yards is a problem. You can so supersonic with a suppressor and still have low signature at 500 - just ballistic crack. It's pretty hard to located the shooter.

Otherwise, you need a big, high BC bullet and it will have a trajectory like a mortar. Lehigh makes a 582gn .458 bullet with a BC of 0.629. Use something like 458 SOCOM in a bolt gun (this will be too long for an AR) and you got decent performance quite a ways out.

Zak Smith
May 12, 2011, 01:37 PM
Here's what happens to long-range subsonic trajectory and wind as a function of BC

_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 100 200 300 400 500 600 | YARDS
0.3BC 0.300 1100 > -0.00 0.00 14.72 31.72 50.31 70.36 91.84 | drop (moa)
0.4BC 0.400 1100 > -0.00 0.00 14.17 30.29 47.68 66.19 85.77 | drop (moa)
0.5BC 0.500 1100 > -0.00 0.00 13.84 29.42 46.07 63.65 82.10 | drop (moa)
0.6BC 0.600 1100 > -0.00 0.00 13.61 28.83 44.98 61.93 79.62 | drop (moa)
0.7BC 0.700 1100 > -0.00 0.00 13.45 28.40 44.19 60.69 77.84 | drop (moa)
0.8BC 0.800 1100 > -0.00 0.00 13.32 28.08 43.60 59.75 76.48 | drop (moa)

0.3BC 0.300 1100 > -0.18 0.13 0.49 0.89 1.34 1.82 2.36 | drop per yard (inches)
0.4BC 0.400 1100 > -0.18 0.13 0.47 0.84 1.25 1.69 2.16 | drop per yard (inches)
0.5BC 0.500 1100 > -0.18 0.13 0.46 0.82 1.20 1.61 2.05 | drop per yard (inches)
0.6BC 0.600 1100 > -0.17 0.13 0.45 0.80 1.16 1.56 1.97 | drop per yard (inches)
0.7BC 0.700 1100 > -0.17 0.12 0.44 0.78 1.14 1.52 1.91 | drop per yard (inches)
0.8BC 0.800 1100 > -0.17 0.12 0.44 0.77 1.12 1.49 1.87 | drop per yard (inches)

0.3BC 0.300 1100 > 0.00 1.98 7.54 16.25 27.91 42.41 59.72 | wind (inches)
0.4BC 0.400 1100 > 0.00 1.51 5.80 12.57 21.67 32.98 46.42 | wind (inches)
0.5BC 0.500 1100 > 0.00 1.22 4.71 10.27 17.77 27.10 38.19 | wind (inches)
0.6BC 0.600 1100 > 0.00 1.02 3.97 8.69 15.07 23.04 32.52 | wind (inches)
0.7BC 0.700 1100 > 0.00 0.88 3.43 7.54 13.10 20.06 28.36 | wind (inches)
0.8BC 0.800 1100 > 0.00 0.77 3.02 6.65 11.59 17.77 25.16 | wind (inches)

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