Snap caps


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mr_goodbomb
May 9, 2011, 05:15 PM
I have a few firearms I'd like to get snap caps for. I work on low-budget film sets, and often times we like to teach actors how to hold and fire the firearms without using blanks to teach them. We don't want them dry firing them, so I figured I'd pick up some snap caps.

I have two 12ga shotguns, a double barrel and a pump High Standard, two .38 sp/.357 revolvers, a Blachawk single action and a Speed Six, and two .22lrs, a single action and a double action.

I believe I can use spent shells for the .22s, for a low-cost snap cap that is reusable (are they all?), I was wondering about suggestions for the others. Thanks!

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oneounceload
May 9, 2011, 05:28 PM
AZOOMS make exactly what you are looking for - snap caps AND training rounds

mr_goodbomb
May 9, 2011, 06:15 PM
What's the difference between the two?

M-Cameron
May 9, 2011, 06:48 PM
if you are going to be using these for films.......i would STRONGLY suggest not using real firearms.

a well made airsoft gun can be had for right around $150-200( sometimes even less if you look around) and to the naked eye there is really no way to tell if from an actual firearm.

the worst thing that can happen with an airsoft gun is a small bruise.....the worst thing that can happen with a firearm.....well, you know the answer to that.

mr_goodbomb
May 9, 2011, 06:50 PM
Thank you, but this is not a discussion I'm interested in. I've been involved in it too many times, and I'd really not like to get into this debate. I appreciate your comment, though.

I know this comment will just bring on further discussion on the topic, but I've been in this discussion online (never in person, mind you, other than with producers who do the same thing, as it's a choice between weapons safety on set VS the cost and labor of visual effects in post) and it always gets out of hand. I won't address any discussion on that topic to keep things from getting that out of hand. I respect your opinion, though, and hope it doesn't seem otherwise.

M-Cameron
May 9, 2011, 07:01 PM
ok....if for whatever reason you want to take the highly dangerous road.......ill offer you some advice...


dont use snapcaps, dont use spent shells, dont even bring the magazines on set.......pretty much dont ever load anything into a gun and make it nearly impossible to load anything.

with the exception of the .22 revolver.......modern centerfire firearms are perfectly ok to dry-fire, it will not damage the guns.



I know this comment will just bring on further discussion on the topic, but I've been in this discussion online (never in person, mind you, other than with producers who do the same thing, as it's a choice between weapons safety on set VS the cost and labor of visual effects in post) and it always gets out of hand. I won't address any discussion on that topic to keep things from getting that out of hand. I respect your opinion, though, and hope it doesn't seem otherwise.

im sorry, dont take this the wrong way.... but if you sacrifice the safety of the cast and crew over the cost of a few hours with after effects........perhaps you should find another line of work.

Guns and more
May 9, 2011, 08:50 PM
I keep snap caps in every gun I own. It's cheap insurance.
A-Zoom is the brand and you can find them on E-Bay and every online store.
$10-$15 for a few. You don't need many because they don't eject. Doh!

Someone once suggested using weighted dummy rounds, so I foolishly bought some.
Very expensive, but nothing was too good for my collection.
Silly me, they don't have a rubber insert in the primer pocket, it's empty.

Back to snap caps.

mr_goodbomb
May 9, 2011, 10:16 PM
In a pump shotgun, snap caps will eject when pumped and it is safe, correct? Having a shell eject is important for some shots, and that seemed like a decent option.

withdrawn34
May 9, 2011, 11:28 PM
Yes, they will, but depending on the snap cap, it may not look correct to an observant viewer (i.e., any of us). For the average viewer, they're not going to notice. Heck, for the average viewer, they wouldn't even notice if that pump shotgun went semi-auto with no ejecting anything.

A lot of "movie guns" seem to have zero recoil, quiet bangs, little to no ejecting brass, and infinite magazine capacity. Oh, and can be shot with extremely poor technique and poor grips yet somehow knock people off their feet with a single shot. Given that most people do not notice those grave mistakes, I doubt they're going to see the difference here.

MartinS
May 10, 2011, 12:05 AM
Gunshots created after the fact look lame and the people pretending to shoot blanks look bored. The cheapest, cheesiest Sci-Fi Channel "Original Production" stuff. If you want a kid and moron proof set why not do game shows and leave the cinema to people who will risk death for art?

mr_goodbomb
May 10, 2011, 12:29 AM
Yes, they will, but depending on the snap cap, it may not look correct to an observant viewer (i.e., any of us). For the average viewer, they're not going to notice. Heck, for the average viewer, they wouldn't even notice if that pump shotgun went semi-auto with no ejecting anything.

My last feature, someone using a .22 rifle was definitely loaded .22 shorts into a .22lr rifle, because if they looked closely, they were probably blanks. The same film also had someone loading crimped rounds into a Nagant revolver, but since the actually Nagant rounds are crimped, that's accurate, technically. The sound designer also inserted the sound of a pump shotgun when someone brings a breakopen shotgun into frame, drops it to reload it, and brings it back into frame. I thought it was so funny that we kept it, and noone noticed if I didn't mention the random sound effect.

Gunshots created after the fact look lame and the people pretending to shoot blanks look bored. The cheapest, cheesiest Sci-Fi Channel "Original Production" stuff. If you want a kid and moron proof set why not do game shows and leave the cinema to people who will risk death for art?

It's less about lame and more about realism. It's also just an ethos thing. I'd much prefer practical effects, done in camera, than any digital work. The only way in which someone could be harmed on set with blank weapons is if someone literally BROUGHT live rounds to set deliberately (which is as likely as someone bringing a live firearm to set and shooting someone else), or if someone jammed stray objects into the weapon or held a blank-loaded weapon directly to their skin. A briefing before each shooting day involving firearms on set will take care of potential accidents, and that sort of briefing would be required were prop weapons present (blanks are just as dangerous, and airsoft weapons may get you shot in public if brandished), so it just comes down to what the briefing is explaining. I'm not saying one should "risk death for art," but these sort of accidents are as likely as any accident involving sharp objects, fire, or other everyday hazards that might be on set.

M-Cameron
May 10, 2011, 06:52 AM
Gunshots created after the fact look lame and the people pretending to shoot blanks look bored. The cheapest, cheesiest Sci-Fi Channel "Original Production" stuff. If you want a kid and moron proof set why not do game shows and leave the cinema to people who will risk death for art?

thats is the single dumbest thing i have ever heard.

have you ever had someone point a real gun at you..........?

now have you ever had someone point a gun at you, and then repeat it 6-7 times...?

now have you had anyone point a gun at you with something in the chamber and then proceed to pull the trigger....?


also.....if your actors cant pull off shooting a fake gun and having it look good.....YOU NEED BETTER ACTORS.......

this video here was made entirely with airsoft guns and some after-effects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nQzs48Tt9U&feature=channel_video_title


The only way in which someone could be harmed on set with blank weapons is if someone literally BROUGHT live rounds to set deliberately (which is as likely as someone bringing a live firearm to set and shooting someone else),
WRONG....on more than a few occasions people have been killed with blank rounds

http://propguys.com/gundanger/

or if someone jammed stray objects into the weapon or held a blank-loaded weapon directly to their skin.

i wonder what Brandon Lee would have to say about that statement.

mr_goodbomb
May 10, 2011, 10:46 AM
M-Cameron, I put you on my ignore list. My apologies, but after you ignored my request, I figured you'd post again about it, so I can't view your last post and won't be responding to it.

Guns and more
May 10, 2011, 10:55 AM
In a pump shotgun, snap caps will eject when pumped and it is safe, correct?
Yes.
You'll find that you don't need to rack the foregrip all the way to cock the hammer if you're practicing pulling the trigger.
If you're getting some wear on the action, then yes, they will eject.

rellascout
May 10, 2011, 10:58 AM
I know this comment will just bring on further discussion on the topic, but I've been in this discussion online (never in person, mind you, other than with producers who do the same thing, as it's a choice between weapons safety on set VS the cost and labor of visual effects in post) and it always gets out of hand. I won't address any discussion on that topic to keep things from getting that out of hand. I respect your opinion, though, and hope it doesn't seem otherwise.

Sorry if you are not willing to acknowledge the dangers in violating the the basic rules of firearms safety I am not sure this is the place for you.

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Sam1911
May 10, 2011, 11:18 AM
Asked, argued over, and answered.

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