Police at gunshop


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merlinfire
May 10, 2011, 04:08 PM
Was just at a gunshop finishing up a layaway on a 1911 and a couple of police came in. They asked if anyone knew <guys name>. The gunshop owner said yes he had met him, he'd just been in to get a gun and the paperwork had come back denied.

They said he had no record or warrants they they could see and the tip they had came from a database, but it didn't tell them what the problem was other than he had tried to buy a gun. They had no warrant or reason to arrest and just wanted to talk to him, they said. When asked whether they normally do this for denials they said they normally don't get notifications of that.

What is up with that?

PS. the 1911 turns out was traded in by one of the cops that responded to the tip, as the gunshop owner mentioned which one it came from

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M-Cameron
May 10, 2011, 04:18 PM
my guess ( and i think a guess is the best answer you are going to get from anyone).......is that he is a suspect or was witnessed at a previous incident and they just want to talk to him.

Frogomatik
May 10, 2011, 04:19 PM
that does seem odd, but without knowing any details, anything we could say would just be speculation. Though it certainly piques my curiosity as to what were those details.

WC145
May 10, 2011, 06:49 PM
A "person of interest".

Remo223
May 10, 2011, 07:08 PM
very strange. They didn't even know why they wanted to talk to him? Basically a computer just told them to go question the guy? And they decide to go to a gunshop to find him rather than his house?

quite disturbing. I'm liking this country less and less every day.

chevyman097
May 10, 2011, 07:24 PM
Exactly why would they go to the mans home first if they were notified he was trying to buy a gun at that specific shop?


It does seem strange though that they would be notified but not as to why. You would think the system would be set up to notify the police why if the person in question was thought to be that big of a threat.

Remo223
May 10, 2011, 07:27 PM
because he's more likely to be there. who's gonna hang around a gunshop after being DENIED?

cyclopsshooter
May 10, 2011, 07:52 PM
buyer coulda been a psyco released from a funny farm... dont go jumping the gun and saying the country is going to hell... put the tin foil hats away

Murphy4570
May 10, 2011, 08:09 PM
Police have the right to "talk" to anyone they please. Whether or not they get any responses beyond "I want a lawyer" is up to the person being questioned.

Do not overestimate stupid* criminals. They will freely and happily waive their 5th Amendment right barring self-incrimination time and time again, if you let them. The police know this.

I'm not saying that guy IS a criminal (presumed innocent and all), but he had to have done something to get on the cop's radar. Could have been something trivial.

mnrivrat
May 10, 2011, 08:36 PM
It is illegal to attempt to purchase a gun if you are a felon . Me thinks the police wern't just sent there to have a chat .

doubleh
May 10, 2011, 09:45 PM
Seems like he would have a record if he were a felon. The OP stated he had no record or warrants.

45_auto
May 10, 2011, 10:37 PM
Seems like he would have a record if he were a felon. The OP stated he had no record or warrants.

You really believe the police are going to tell all their business to some random joker standing in a gunshop?

They aren't going to give anything away on why they came looking for the guy.

Cryogaijin
May 10, 2011, 11:54 PM
Ok, so, first note: One of the two fuzz already use that gun shop.

Second note: Fuzz are people too. (Mostly.)

Third note: People enjoy going to the gun shop. . . even at work.

Sure they got a ping, but there is no reason to assume anything sinister.

WNC Seabee
May 11, 2011, 12:01 AM
Why would you expect the cops to tell you why they wanted to talk to the guy?

Grousefeather
May 11, 2011, 12:07 AM
I dont understand , If they didn't know why they wanted to talk to him, just what were they going to ask?

Nushif
May 11, 2011, 12:16 AM
Why would you expect the cops to tell you why they wanted to talk to the guy?

That's what I'm guessing ... maybe it's because I'm used to the e-bil gubmint but uh ...

Is there *really* this expectation of "Why, good Sir! the person standing in front of you is indeed a felon! But since you're a gun store visitor or owner, I can trust you.. so could you kindly tell him that we are sending some officers to collect his child support? thanks!"

rondog
May 11, 2011, 01:48 AM
Perhaps the guy had already been denied several other times at other shops, and that raised a red flag in the system?

Jeff White
May 11, 2011, 01:54 AM
Here in Illinois we have a state run instant check system. It was up and running a few years before the federal system. We always would get a call from the state police if someone with an active warrant was attempting to buy a gun.

I responded to several of those, never did get there before the person with the warrant left the shop. And no I would never just tell the public anything about the person. Number one, the warrant may have been a soundex hit, a similar name or other identifying features, why cause the person any embarrassment?

Number 2, the people in gun shop might tip the person off make him/her harder to catch.

If they did show up right after the NICS denial then there probably was a warrant.....

Remo223
May 11, 2011, 05:47 PM
^why even bother going to the shop? I can't imagine anyone sticking around in a shop after being denied. The first thing I'd do is go home, get on the internet, and try to figure out how the heck I'm going to deal with this. Then maybe start making phone calls and sending emails.

Steve 48
May 11, 2011, 05:56 PM
He probably had a warrant and did not want to say that. That is the only reason why they come.

HorseSoldier
May 11, 2011, 06:10 PM
Interesting. That must have been a serious "denied" hit on the background check. Sounds more like ATF business than local law enforcement business to me, unless there's some state or local statutes where you are that might also come into play.

Cop Bob
May 11, 2011, 06:15 PM
Here in Illinois we have a state run instant check system. It was up and running a few years before the federal system. We always would get a call from the state police if someone with an active warrant was attempting to buy a gun.

I responded to several of those, never did get there before the person with the warrant left the shop. And no I would never just tell the public anything about the person. Number one, the warrant may have been a soundex hit, a similar name or other identifying features, why cause the person any embarrassment?

Number 2, the people in gun shop might tip the person off make him/her harder to catch.

If they did show up right after the NICS denial then there probably was a warrant.....
BINGO.................!!!!!

All we need now if Paul Harvey... for the Rest of the Story... which we will never have...

My Guess it dat he wad a berry berry bad boy .. and that they wanted to have a chat with him. on a professional level of course..!!!!

mljdeckard
May 11, 2011, 06:16 PM
I agree. They came for a reason. They won't say out loud why they are there.

merlinfire
May 12, 2011, 08:53 AM
You really believe the police are going to tell all their business to some random joker standing in a gunshop?

They aren't going to give anything away on why they came looking for the guy.

Now that's not very nice. These cops and the shop owner were friends. Besides, aren't criminal convictions public record?

AirForceShooter
May 12, 2011, 10:12 AM
Why would you expect a LEO to tell you why they want to talk to someone?
As for the warrant, they don't need one to take someone into custody.

As for the " we just want to talk to him" the LEO's lied to you.
Good for them.

AFS

rscalzo
May 12, 2011, 10:25 AM
Besides, aren't criminal convictions public record?
No, not always

We were required to shred CCH printouts and they were not permitted to be included with the case file. Much depends if the case is active or not. OPRA requirements vary from state to state. DL information is restricted.

HorseSoldier
May 13, 2011, 04:56 AM
Here in Alaska convictions are public record, and accessible via a (very popular and heavily used) website. Information about open cases, pending court cases, arrests and such, is entirely different and is significantly regulated and limited by the investigated agency or prosecuting agency. Realistically, officers who are looking for anyone from a suspected cannibal-serial killer to a potential witness to a minor hit and run collision are going to "just need to talk to them," when looking around for them. Besides possible effects on the investigation, there's the whole issue of what happens when a guy isn't guilty at trial or charges just fizzle entirely and officers have been, say, canvassing his neighborhood telling the neighbors "they're looking for him since he beat his wife/molested his kids/set fire to a nun/whatever."

Archie
May 14, 2011, 03:01 PM
Information in possession of police for official purposes - no matter how benign or irrelevant - is by policy 'private'. In simplest terms, it is no one else's business. This applies to convictions. If a lawman has knowledge of a certain person's criminal record, it is typically 'bad form' to bandy that knowledge about. Surely not to people with no stake in the matter. NOT public information is background information or details of an active investigation.

However, "... need to talk to him..." could mean anything from "Are you the John Doe wanted for murder?" to "Do you know where we could find your brother?" to "Remember the car that was stolen from your driveway three years ago?" BUT they're not to discuss with third parties.

Many times this results in lawmen looking like a pack of officious snobs. When dealing with this sort of thing, I always tried to say something like, "I cannot discuss XX's personal business with anyone else; but he can tell you whatever he wants about it" and I'd smile.

Face it, if a cop wanted to talk to you, would you want him discussing anything - say your daughter's boyfriend - with anyone who asked?

Why come to the gunshop? Perhaps the current address on the subject's DMV record is not correct? People honestly forget to update information. Not to mention looking into stolen identity cases. You have no idea how many arrest warrants I've checked against people to determine the real bad guy used an alias identical or very close to the real name of the innocent party before me.

Okay. Something triggered my 'lecture' switch. I'm done now.

MICHAEL T
May 15, 2011, 12:53 PM
I have witness this 2 times at shop I go to. person tries to buy Dealer calls in . The do check get hit on warrent . Tell dealer to try and stall few min. Police show up and guy taken in to custody . One we never found out charge. Other guy had warrent for not paying child support. .
Its part of the system in today computer world . Gee and you thought they just checked on you.

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