Im in the market for a 9mm semi auto that will serve double duty. I want something that will conceal under a loose fitting t-shirt, but capable of HD. In reality the farthest shot for HD would be across the room in the house so a tactical pistol isn't really needed. The only pistol I own right now is a S&W 637 with the hammer bobbed. So any auto is really going to be a step up in barrel length, sight radius, capacity, and reload speed. I have handled the glock 26 as well as the XDsc9. Both are great but maybe hard for me to conceal under a t-shirt due to thickness, but would be better for HD. The Kahr PM9 on the other hand is easy to conceal but isn't as good for HD. My plan is to keep the j-frame as a backup, but I want only one gun for both tasks. I believe that only having that one gun for both will allow me to master that firearm for defense. Anybody else in the same boat or have any opinions, pros-cons on the subject?
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May 12, 2011, 03:47 PM
maybe check out a Sig P 6, or look into a good gun belt and holster to use with thicker pistols. those help with concealment a lot more than you might think.
May 12, 2011, 03:48 PM
1911's are also "slim" as compared to most pistols with a double stacked mag.
And I agree with you, training with your defensive firearms is a good thing. Training extensively with one rather than multiple types may have some advantage to it.
May 12, 2011, 03:50 PM
You didn't say what your price range is but the best gun based on what you mentioned is the HKP2000sk in my opinion. Mine is in .357 sig so i'm not sure what the 9mm round count is but it will accept compact magazines for concealed carrry and full size for HD. I think CDNN has them for under $750 but don't quote me on that.
May 12, 2011, 03:51 PM
No one can tell you what to buy . The 647 you have makes a great pocket revolver. Picking a pistol will still be your choice and how you dressand work. How heavy or light your comfortable with carry'n. Some of the 13 oz pistols carry very well but can be harder on the shooter like KT pf-9. Step to the 17 to 20 oz pistols and that allows Kahr, Glock, XD, KT p-11 . Sig., Ruger and I am sure a few more. just try to go by the gun shops. handle different brands. See what fits well and points well for you. Most indoor ranges have rentals if any are near you or maybe some buddies have different brand to try. If the glock 26 shoots well but you want more grip look at adding an extention to the mag or a g19 or a mp or xd but give your self some time to try all you can. I have a pf9 that works for me as my main pocket carry, a kahr cw9 that works great out of a holster and shoot very well. Good guns. I also have glock 27 that that shootes the best of the small pistols for me but I can't get use to carry'n it, tooooo thick. But great shooter. Ever one has different want so just hang in.
May 12, 2011, 03:52 PM
If you want something a little more substantial with more grip area and longer barrel than the PM9 maybe try the K9.
May 12, 2011, 03:54 PM
To get much thinner, you're looking at single stack guns like the Kahr you mentioned, but perhaps their larger P9, K9 or T9. Another good, slender 9mm auto is the S&W 3913 (or any of the 2nd gen 39 series).
That said, the S&W M&P and Baby Eagles are pretty slender for a double column gun. Much less chunky than a glock or XD, anyway. For CCW, though, the Baby Eagle is pretty heavy, even in compact form.
May 12, 2011, 04:01 PM
Six replies and no love for a Ruger SR9C?
So I will say, how about a Ruger SR9C? Quite slim and can hold 10 rounds. I've only shot a 10 round SR9 and honestly, I loved it. Just didn't want to say that loud lest my G17 get jealous.
May 12, 2011, 04:30 PM
I use a Glock 26. A Galco gunbelt and Glock combat holster make it disappear under a t-shirt and jeans. A ten round magazine for carry,
15rd. mag with mag spacer as a spare magazine and when it's on my nightstand. A 22lr conversion kit and it's the only handgun I would ever
need (but still want others).
May 12, 2011, 07:21 PM
I would look at a S&W M&P9c (12+1) if you want to add a light and a G26 if not. You are not going to find a pistol that is the best at both, there is going to have to be some compromise somewhere.
SAO, cocked and locked, 2 safety's that must agree
9+1 9mm very ccw, very
Same light/crisp trigger pull "every-time", they are tack drivers via 124gr JHP's in HD/SD shorter ranges.
And a no questions asked "lifetime full warranty" with an excellent CS and parts support.
May 12, 2011, 08:01 PM
+2 on the K-9.... Its tough to beat at .9 inch wide...
I have mine in a crossbreed and I forget that I am wearing it.
Great for both needs
May 12, 2011, 08:43 PM
Have you taken a look at para ordnanace? Check out the LDA carry Nine.
May 12, 2011, 08:44 PM
Another vote for the Ruger SR9c. Love mine. Has a 10 round mag for CC and a 17 round mag for HD. :D
May 12, 2011, 09:04 PM
Walther PPS, unbelievably slim gun, available mags include 6,7, 8 rounds
All are reliable and accurate. The Walther is the easiest to conceal
May 12, 2011, 09:09 PM
I have handled the glock 26 as well as the XDsc9. Both are great but maybe hard for me to conceal under a t-shirt due to thickness,
If thickness under a tshirt bothers you get some slightly bigger shirts and get a Glock 19 which is the best all around Glock 9mm IMO.
May 12, 2011, 09:18 PM
I carry a G26 and have a G17 set up for HD. The G26 is usually on the dresser each evening, so it is the closest.
May 12, 2011, 09:34 PM
I'm a big fan of the HK2000sk too. Ten round mags are standard but they will take the full size 13 round mags too and with an x-grip adapter it is more comfortable in the hand.
If I had to have something slimmer, I think that I'd try the Walther PPS.
May 12, 2011, 09:47 PM
Any pistol that you can CCW can be used for HD...the priority in your strategy needs to be CCW. That said, a single stack 9mm is going to serve you well. Sig P225/P6, S&W 3913, Kahr K9.
May 12, 2011, 10:05 PM
Best, all concerned? Glock 19.
May 12, 2011, 10:37 PM
Another vote for Ruger SR9c.
May 12, 2011, 10:44 PM
And another for the SR9c. Carry all day with the 10 rounder and slap the 17 in when it goes in the nightstand. Just too easy.
May 13, 2011, 12:08 AM
KAHR PM9 or CM9
May 13, 2011, 12:41 AM
A) Glock 19 gen3 rough texture or Glock 19 Gen4.
B) Corbon HP +P.
C) Lots of target ammo and training.
May 13, 2011, 12:58 AM
Get yourself a GLOCK 26 with a good IWB holster. Living in Minnesota you will wear a T-shirt just a few weeks in the Summer.
May 13, 2011, 01:08 AM
I have a lot of pistols in a lot of calibers. So I can say,
"Buy something you can practice with a lot and shoot well."
May 13, 2011, 02:57 AM
If you want slim the SR9 and SR9c are great choices, reliable and affordable and Ruger really backs up their products. The full size is what I personally own but the SR9c would suit your purpose better in reality. In most HD situations (unless you have a mansion) you're not going to need something with a barrel longer than 2-2.5 inches haha
May 13, 2011, 03:47 AM
3rd Generation 9mm S&W 3913,3914 models.Perfect size and about $400-$500 used.
May 14, 2011, 12:19 AM
You have been given some really good choices here and I can't disagree with any of them. My top choice is for the Glock 19, a Milt Sparks, VM-II and, maybe an untucked short sleeve shirt instead of or in addition to the tee shirt. Think Magnum PI. The Kahrs and the other guns mentioned,especially the 3913 are also gret choices should you decide to go single stack. The EMP or the Smith pro 1911 in 9mm should also be considered. The LC9 also feels real good in my hand and is quite small. I havenot had a chance to shoot it yet.
May 14, 2011, 12:27 AM
Both are great but maybe hard for me to conceal under a t-shirt due to thickness, but would be better for HD.
They are really not, if you do it right. Meaning loose fitting shirt and pants, sturdy belt, and proper holster. My EDC is a Glock 26 IWB (kydex galco triton) and a fobus double mag paddle holder. The only mod to my G26 is finger extensions, because I just cannot abide a double stack with only a 2 finger grip. It just doesn't feel right to me.
If you find you don't like sharing your pants with a double stack stick with single. There are so many great, slim single stacks on the market. My favorite is the Kahr brand. There CW series is a great deal, and can do double duty for HD of course.
It is also true that the fewer guns you train with the higher skill level you can reach. I plan on doing the one gun thing as soon as I get a good holster for my G19. This is also a great gun for HD and CC.
May 14, 2011, 12:30 AM
I love the Kahr PM9 for carry (with 7 round extended clip for the pinky finger), you just have to put lots and lots of rounds through it to shoot it as well as a full sized gun. The Kahr PM9 is expensive, but that smooth trigger is worth the extra cost in my opinion. I applaud you for going dual purpose. One gun is a great strategy. Whatever you decide to purchase, buy lots of ammo and shoot often. Nothing replaces competence. I know people who can shoot a subcompact faster and more accurately then many shooters with match grade weapons who admire, rather then shoot their weapons.
May 14, 2011, 10:41 AM
Subcompact with full size magazine and adapter
Sr9c comes with both
These make great IWB guns and are accurate/comfortable to shoot
AZ Five seveN
May 15, 2011, 12:23 AM
The HK P30 is a perfect choice for both. I use it as both my primary concealed carry and primary home defense.
I have no issue with Glocks or M&Ps, as I own 2 M&Ps, but if you'd like to see what "perfect" ergonomics feel like, get your hands on a P30 and ask them to adjust the back and sides of the grip if necessary. I loved my M&P's ergos until I fired a P30 for the first time. Now, all of my other guns are sitting in the safe, unused. That's how much I think of the P30. Not to mention it's been torture tested to over 80,000 rounds with no serious issues.
You can't go wrong with a Glock or M&P either, however, just wanted to throw that option out there.
May 15, 2011, 05:53 AM
Consider the new Ruger LC9. Very light and compact. Thinner than my S&W M&P 9c. Fits my hand better than my little Ruger LCP. It may be the perfect size for a carry gun.
May 15, 2011, 12:26 PM
+2 for p2000sk
9mm one is 10+1 capacity
mine is a .40 and is 9+1
you can get an x-grip and use the fullsize mags also for home defense giving you even more rounds
just bought a C5L for mine - green laser and light combo, its pretty slick
I went to Cabela's and handled a couple guns yesterday. I liked the feel of a Kahr CW9. Nice and thin and the grip was just long enough to fill my hand. It was a good size for what I am looking for. I would like to find a K9 and check that out. I have also considered a Springfield EMP, but have heard the reliability of a short action 1911 isn't great. I don't know what the Kahr trigger is like as far as actually firing one. But can anyone tell me what the pull is like? In the store it felt much lighter than my 637.
May 15, 2011, 01:12 PM
I have also considered a Springfield EMP, but have heard the reliability of a short action 1911 isn't great
SA built the EMP around the 9mm cartridge........they work.
May 15, 2011, 06:38 PM
In the store I didn't actually handle the gun, but there was a display set up with the 3 different grip size of the S&W M&P. The small grip actually felt really nice and thin in my hand. I might have to make another trip and take a look at one. Anybody have any bad to say about the M&P series. Are the mags steel or stainless steel?
May 15, 2011, 10:46 PM
Another vote for a S+W 3913/3914 or 3953/3954. I am a big fan of them for the reasons you are considering. They are big and heavy enough for a range or house gun but small, thin and light enough for easy carry.
May 15, 2011, 11:40 PM
minirunner - I own both a M&P 9 and 9c and I love the guns. They are great right out of the box (after a good cleaning) and I've had no FTF/FTE in 2,500 rounds. For the 9c, it would be a great idea to get the XGrip and a few 17 round mags for home defense but also have some 12 round mags for CCW (when you take off the XGrip).
Also, last week I bought the Kahr CW9. It needs a break-in period before I can comment on it but it does feel very good in the hand. In my 1st 100 rounds, I had no FTF/FTE and the accuracy was very good. Once I break the gun in and find out which ammo works best, it will be an addition to my CCW. Here's my line-up for carry (assuming the Kahr CW9 passes the test):
- M&P 9c in a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB holster
- S&W 640-1 .357 in a Galco Kingtuk IWB holster
- Kahr CW9 in a Kholster Crescent IWB holster
EDIT: My vote would be for the M&P 9c because with an XGrip, it can be both a HD and CCW gun. Plus, you can mount a light on it very easily and you can't on the Kahr CW9 (no rail). Good luck in your decision.
May 16, 2011, 12:15 AM
Anybody have any bad to say about the M&P series.
The trigger is a little crunchy and gritty when you first get it. This is because of the friction between the trigger bar and the striker block. It goes away some after putting a few hundred rounds through it and keeping it lubed up. It can be remedied by getting a rounder striker block from apex tactical or rounding the thing out yourself (I did this for my M&P45). That really the only thing I don't like about them that is relevant. The magazines are stainless steel (ought to be they aren't cheap).
But can anyone tell me what the pull is like? In the store it felt much lighter than my 637. The kahr trigger is one the smoothest, best DOA triggers ever. I love it. It's so nice it feels custom. Honestly I wish my M&Ps had that trigger.
May 16, 2011, 12:24 AM
I'm voting for a Smith and Wesson M&PC.
gun has a great feel and fits well, IME. Its trigger is smooth and it has a nice profile, too.
I have a Glock and although it works, I do dislike its blocky design. It really does make you dress around the gun, and I consider that a very undesirable trait.
May 16, 2011, 02:37 PM
I went from a glock19 to an lc9. The g19 was just a bit large/heavy for me to carry daily. The size and weight of the lc9 is much more comfortable and easier to hide. That said the glock19 or similar sized guns are much better for dual duty and are more accurate with less effort/focus required to keep on center of mass.
May 16, 2011, 03:38 PM
Another vote for the S&W 3913: slim and compact for carry, yet full powered for HD.
Guns and more
May 16, 2011, 03:57 PM
Of all those listed, and if money was not the limiting factor, I'd go with the EMP.
In carry, I like small. In H/D I like solid, reliable.
I don't have an EMP, but I have the big brother, the Micro Compact in .45.
I wore it around the house, It lays flat, and I actually forgot I had it on.
May 18, 2011, 11:03 AM
+1 on sr9c
May 18, 2011, 11:18 AM
Glock 19 or M&Pc would be my vote.
May 18, 2011, 11:31 AM
3913/3914/3953 for all around use. Carry it IWB. PM9/CW9/LC9 if deep summertime concealment is a goal.
May 18, 2011, 11:48 AM
The Kahr CW9 would be at the top of my list if you want a single-stack 9mm for carry and HD. I have a CW40 and, as others have said, the trigger is very nice. My only complaint about the Kahr trigger is that the reset is virtually indistinguishable. You can overcome that by simply training yourself to run the trigger all the way back out after you fire. It's not going to be the fastest gun on the market, but the smoothness is amazing given the price point.
If you're open to double-stack, I have to agree with several who've suggested the G19. One item of note, if you go with the G19, be aware that the RTF grip texture is fairly uncomfortable when the gun is carried IWB against bare skin. You may want to consider a Gen 3 G19 with the "old" style texture on the grip.
You seem to have ruled out the XD's because you don't believe you can conceal them under a loose T-shirt. I can tell you for a fact that no one has ever mentioned mine while carrying it in my CrossBreed SuperTuck. The nice thing about the XDSC's (and similar weapons) is that you can carry them with the shorter magazine, carry the higher capacity magazine as your backup mag and keep them loaded up with the higher capacity magazine at home. Of course, you could make a similar argument for the G19 with a G17 mag as a backup ... or a G18 mag for that matter. :)
May 18, 2011, 11:57 AM
Might not meet all your criteria but you should check out the Walther P99C and PPS. Both are significantly better then any Glock.
May 18, 2011, 11:59 AM
I owned a 26 with Trijicon night sights and really liked it, but was more comfortable with my XD Service (4") and the Glock seemed redundant, so I sold it off to finance my 1911. Though I retained my XD, I much prefer the Glock to the XD in the subcompact size, even the the opposite is true in the compact and full/tactical sizes.
If I ever had an itch to part with my XD, I would be torn between a 26 or a Walther PPS to replace it. I am certain it would be one of those two. They would be my recommendations for the OP.
Heck, in all honestly, I would probably be better served for home by one of those two due to their size and ease of carry compared to a compact (XD 4" or Glock 19) size pistol. I prioritize ease of carry very high on my list, more so than the higher cartridge capacity of a compact size Glock 19 or similar.
May 18, 2011, 10:09 PM
FNP-9. It's well priced, made by FN, and compact as hell for a full sized handgun.
May 19, 2011, 05:11 PM
S&W M&Pc. You can use the short magazines or full size with an X-Grip.