Are JHP illegal in any states?


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Cryogaijin
May 13, 2011, 04:21 AM
The debate recently came up, and I'm not finding any good information on it. So. . . are they?

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Diggers
May 13, 2011, 04:24 AM
I believe in New Jersey any HP ammo is illegal.

Owen Sparks
May 13, 2011, 11:25 PM
New Joysey.

Jeff82
May 13, 2011, 11:36 PM
RE: NJ

I heard you can have them in your home but nowhere else. Any truth?

ETA:
Close, http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

Fleetwood_Captain
May 13, 2011, 11:40 PM
It's a Jersey Thing, you wouldn't understand...

hso
May 13, 2011, 11:43 PM
Restrictions on HP ammo in NJ, but not banned.New Jersey bans the possession and use of hollowpoint ammunition, with the notable exemption for ammunition possessed inside one's home or on one's property, or for use during specific activities, i.e. hunting or at shooting ranges.[210] Hollowpoint ammunition is available for unrestricted purchase from most retailers wherever firearms are sold, and may be transported by purchasers without special licensing.

So, NO state bans hollow point ammunition completely and only NJ has restrictions on it.

Bonesinium
May 14, 2011, 12:20 AM
People only think they are illegal in New Jersey because of the posts like the ones above, with people spreading misinformation.

Hollow points are not illegal in NJ. They are legal to have in any setting where you can legally possess a firearm. They only become illegal to have if you are committing a crime or using them in the commission of a crime. So no, they are not illegal unless you are a criminal, in which case it just adds an additional charge. So assuming you plan on using/having them for legal purposes, then you would be fine.

RE: NJ

I heard you can have them in your home but nowhere else. Any truth?


No.

Loosedhorse
May 14, 2011, 06:37 AM
They are legal to have in any setting where you can legally possess a firearmActually, you are incorrect: they may not be carried in a gun in public by any person with a NJ CCW license. Also, the prohibitions on where a licensed-to-own person may carry a gun or hollow-points (separately, no ammo in the gun), or just hollowpoints without a gun, are extensive; the exceptions to the prohibition cover you mainly if you're on your way to hunting or engaged in hunting (with a license), on your way to or at a range (for practice or competition), or on your way to or in your home. While on your way to any of these places, you may not have HPs in your gun.

If you have HPs in the car and you're on the way to the grocery store, don't speed and get pulled over. And be aware it is not just "hollow nose" bullets that are restricted, but also "dum-dum" bullets; dum-dums are defined in most dictionaries as expanding bullets, and a NJ prosecutor or judge certainly might define the term as any expanding bullet.

The statutes are here (http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=504600&Depth=4&TD=WRAP&advquery=hollow&headingswithhits=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&rank=&record={1A30}&softpage=Document42&wordsaroundhits=2&zz=), and the NJSP info on those statutes is here (http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html). Neither say that HPs are only illegal if you're committing a crime.

So, perhaps you should stop spreading misinformation? Or do us the courtesy of quoting where the statutes that show you're right?

blume357@bellsouth.net
May 14, 2011, 07:16 AM
Actually I read Bones statement as true.... you can have hollow points anywhere it is legal to have a gun in N.J. which seems to be practically no where. Sounds to me like you are both right.

Jeff82
May 14, 2011, 11:49 PM
blume you missed Loosedhorse's point. A properly permitted CCWer in NJ cannot carry HP's in their pistol when in public, even though the gun is legal. That's just one instance.

Sunray
May 15, 2011, 01:36 AM
"...illegal to have if you are..." So it's ok to use an FMJ when committing a crime? And people think our laws are odd.
Mind you, 20 or so years back some idiot civil servant decided HP's were explosive and for a short time they were evil for use in a handgun. Even a .22 LR. The twits have since been shown the error of their ways. The really sad part is that some people think it's still illegal.

Bonesinium
May 15, 2011, 02:00 AM
Actually, you are incorrect: they may not be carried in a gun in public by any person with a NJ CCW license.

Fair enough, to an extent. I suppose I missed this, as it is nearly impossible have a CCW license and not be law enforcement, which is why it didn't cross my mind. And LEO's can in fact carry hollow points.

Also, the prohibitions on where a licensed-to-own person may carry a gun or hollow-points (separately, no ammo in the gun), or just hollowpoints without a gun, are extensive; the exceptions to the prohibition cover you mainly if you're on your way to hunting or engaged in hunting (with a license), on your way to or at a range (for practice or competition), or on your way to or in your home. While on your way to any of these places, you may not have HPs in your gun.

In your gun? Of course not. And you can't have FMJ, or any other type of ammunition in your firearm either. So that would already be a place where it would be prohibited, and not contrary to anything I said, because now you are talking about the illegal transportation of a loaded firearm. If you follow the transportation laws, you certainly can have hollow points...


If you have HPs in the car and you're on the way to the grocery store, don't speed and get pulled over. And be aware it is not just "hollow nose" bullets that are restricted, but also "dum-dum" bullets; dum-dums are defined in most dictionaries as expanding bullets, and a NJ prosecutor or judge certainly might define the term as any expanding bullet.

And if you are on the way to the grocery store with a firearm it is illegal also, much like I already said...hmm.

The statutes are here (http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=504600&Depth=4&TD=WRAP&advquery=hollow&headingswithhits=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&rank=&record={1A30}&softpage=Document42&wordsaroundhits=2&zz=), and the NJSP info on those statutes is here (http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html). Neither say that HPs are only illegal if you're committing a crime.

Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. (1) be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing such ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of any such ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.

Sigh. It would be ironic that the exception for where you can have hollow points is the exact same exception for where you can have firearms w/o and FPID in NJ. So does that mean that they are legal in any setting where you can legally possess a firearm in NJ? Sounds pretty close to me...



So, perhaps you should stop spreading misinformation? Or do us the courtesy of quoting where the statutes that show you're right?

For all practical purposes I spread no misinformation....

Bonesinium
May 15, 2011, 02:03 AM
blume you missed Loosedhorse's point. A properly permitted CCWer in NJ cannot carry HP's in their pistol when in public, even though the gun is legal. That's just one instance.
No, that isn't just one instance, it is the only instance. And then you would also be operating under the assumption that there are properly permitted CCW holders in the state of NJ that aren't LEO's....but that is another story.

GRIZ22
May 15, 2011, 02:51 AM
And then you would also be operating under the assumption that there are properly permitted CCW holders in the state of NJ that aren't LEO's....but that is another story.

An active NJ LEO does not need a CCW and can't get one. A NJ LEO carries under state statute, has no restrictions by statute where they can carry, and wouldn't be issued a CCW even if he or she applied for it. Out of state LEOs can carry under LEOSA but some restrictions would apply to them (eg. no carry at schools, etc). Recent updates to LEOSA cover hollowpoints but the NJ AG still says out of state LEOs can't carry hollowpoints. I seriously doubt any LEO from anywhere will get jacked up for hollowpoints by NJ unless they are commiting a crime. A state law can be more restrictive than a federal law but it can't be contrary to a federal law.

There are very few people who have carry permits in NJ that are not and have never been LEOs. Retired LEOs can get a carry permit but NJ says they can't carry hollowpoints while Federal law (LEOSA) says they can.

The way the law is written in NJ you can be arrested solely for possession of hollowpoints but in reality it is used as a add on charge when someone is arrested with a gun. There are all these horror stories about being arrested in NJ for possessing one hollowpoint round but no one has been able to give me an example of this in the past ten years.

Diggers
May 15, 2011, 05:53 AM
Really odd that NJ says no HP ammo for LEOSA carry.:confused: What is that about? Really goes against most LEO firearms training.

jerkface11
May 15, 2011, 10:35 AM
Really odd that NJ says no HP ammo for LEOSA carry. What is that about? Really goes against most LEO firearms training.

More states should make their guncontrol laws apply to police.

HGUNHNTR
May 15, 2011, 10:44 AM
In Jersey you can have hollow point ammunition in your home, or to and from your home and a place for camping, shooting, fishing, or hunting per code 2C subsection F. How do I know?....I was falsely arrested at the Newark airpoirt for possesion of hollowpoint ammunition while on my way to go hunting in another state. LE didn't know the law and wrote me a ticket...they said they would rather let the courts sort it out than to try and decipher the NJ firearms code....thanks NJ LE. Anyway the crazy thing about NJ is that it is the bullet that is illegal to carry around, not ammunition. So, if you have a dummy keychain with a HP bullet, that is a felony. Also, perhaps even more rediculous: If you are a burglar, and you break into my house and I shoot you with HP ammo that I am possesing legally, and the bullet stays inside of the bad guy, the bad guy can be charged (under the law) for possesing HP ammunition illegally. NJ is a great example of what happens when laws are passed on top of laws to attempt eliminate law breaking. It doesn't work, nad you end up with a tangled legal system that ensnares many law abiding legal folks that are just trying to follow the letter of the law.

GRIZ22
May 15, 2011, 12:32 PM
Really odd that NJ says no HP ammo for LEOSA carry. What is that about? Really goes against most LEO firearms training.


I wouldn't say goes against training but common sense. NJ also has a policy recognizing the rest of LEOSA except that a retired LEO who is a NJ resident can't carry under LEOSA and must get a NJ Retired LEO Carry Permit. Somehow they think Federal law doesn't apply to NJ residents. The big problem with NJ guns laws is prosecution for violations are often regulated by "Attorney General Guidelines" which change at the whim of the State AG.

Mechanic_X
May 15, 2011, 02:59 PM
A friend of my Dad's, from Jersey, that is retired Chief was in town for the LEEDA convention. He was carrying a Glock and said he couldn't even have JHP.

snatale42
May 15, 2011, 03:03 PM
People only think they are illegal in New Jersey because of the posts like the ones above, with people spreading misinformation.

Hollow points are not illegal in NJ. They are legal to have in any setting where you can legally possess a firearm. They only become illegal to have if you are committing a crime or using them in the commission of a crime. So no, they are not illegal unless you are a criminal, in which case it just adds an additional charge. So assuming you plan on using/having them for legal purposes, then you would be fine.

Sure about that?

From NJ.GOV


Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

Tom609
May 15, 2011, 03:39 PM
I agree with Bonesinium based on the quoted NJ law. We (the vast majority of us that are non-LEO) cannot get a CCW. There may be an exception, but they are a friend of the judge, and rare. I can go to my local gun shop, show my FOID card which is required to buy handgun ammo, and buy JHPs. I can drive home with them, drive to my gun club and shoot them, and take what's left back home. It's is no different than any other ammo. If I decided to hold up the 7-11 on the way home, the JHPs would add an additional # years to my sentence. The law you quote pretty much describes the lawfully possession of any legal firearm and ammo in NJ. For all intents and purposes, JHPs are only illegal when used in the commission of a crime. There are many ways to inadvertently break the law, but that's another thread.

grilledcheese
May 15, 2011, 09:08 PM
It should be illegal to pass or event present such convoluted laws like what is being discussed. Unbridled legislative stupidity at its worst.
Boggles the mind, it does. But then maybe that was the intent.
The politicians creed: When In Doubt, Obfuscate.


Jeffrey

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