Alternative defense weapon for carry in non-carry places.


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ms6852
May 14, 2011, 03:26 AM
As a law abiding citizen licensed to carry, do you carry something else for defense if you are going to a place that does not allow you to carry your handgun such as church, school events, etc.

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BigMustard
May 14, 2011, 03:31 AM
You can't carry in church?

Rail Driver
May 14, 2011, 03:44 AM
I walk with a cane. Not only does it go with me into the post office and other federal buildings, but it follows me onto the airplane and any other place I have any reason to be.

GWARGHOUL
May 14, 2011, 04:18 AM
I walk with a cane. Not only does it go with me into the post office and other federal buildings, but it follows me onto the airplane and any other place I have any reason to be.

Thats exactly why the liberal media and the Obama administration seek to ban "assault" "weapons".

Brady Campaign Against Cane Violence.

Who wants to bet that they would not try that, if they weren't currently trying to impede on your Second Amendment Rights?

Agmundr
May 14, 2011, 05:15 AM
BigMustard: I honestly don't know if it's a Federal law or not, but I know that most states do not allow carry in "places of worship" regardless of religion.

Guardrail
May 14, 2011, 05:48 AM
BigMustard: I honestly don't know if it's a Federal law or not, but I know that most states do not allow carry in "places of worship" regardless of religion.

I'm glad Kansas isn't one of them.

Guardrail

ms6852
May 14, 2011, 06:44 AM
You can't carry in church?
There is a lot of confusion as to whether you can carry or not in a nursing home, amusement park, or an established place of religious worship, or meeting of a governmental entity where 30.06 is not posted. The short answer for Texas is simple, if the 30.06 sign is not posted, in TEXAS you CAN CARRY CONCEAL IN A HOSPITAL, NURSING HOME, PLACE OF WORSHIP OR AT A MEETING PLACE.

Toforo
May 14, 2011, 09:23 AM
BigMustard: I honestly don't know if it's a Federal law or not, but I know that most states do not allow carry in "places of worship" regardless of religion.
MOST states?

Can you satisfy our curiousity and name a few please?

oneounceload
May 14, 2011, 10:25 AM
Alternate method (just trying to get back on track)- chemical spray, knife, walking stick/cane, taser

crafter32034
May 14, 2011, 10:41 AM
Since I've been disabled, I use a cane all the time. As soon as I realized that a healthy 12 year old could put me on the ground:(, I began exploring work-arounds for personal security. I suggest Cane Masters http://www.canemasters.com/ as a good place to look for alternative self defense options.
I learned and practice, daily, 5 moves with my hickory combat cane. I chose a small number of moves because of limited mobility. They range from a simple thrust that creates an instant bad guy soprano to a fatal strike.
My EDC 1911 is still my first choice, but on a plane or in a government building, I never feel completely vulnerable.

BTW, church carry is legal in Florida.

Unkei
May 14, 2011, 12:38 PM
Many will recommend a kubotan or even a sword cane...some advocate pepper spray or gasses. Depending on your local laws any or all of these choices may be illegal. A sword cane almost definitely will be. Knives are another choice, but most persons don't have the necessary skills, which must be learned and practiced.
My personal choice is a Shillelagh, the Irish cane made from Blackthorn. It has been used for many years in Ireland for just this purpose and is perfectly legal to carry. In one of my many magazines is an article on simple self defense techniques using a cane. I will look it up and refer any interested to same. Anyone can learn these simple techniques, even those with some degree of disability.

jiminhobesound
May 14, 2011, 01:18 PM
The cane seems to be a good idea. Fortunately, I am in Florida so I can CC just about everywhere. However, I had thought about alternatives such as a shocking device, hand held, requiring close contact, or a spray.

Owen Sparks
May 14, 2011, 02:02 PM
A stick will allow you defend yourself from way out of range of a knife. The only advantage a knife has in in close in a grappling situation but in order to grapple the attacker must pass through the optimum striking range of your stick first. It is nearly impossible to close the distiance on an alert man with a stick when all you have is a knife.

Archie
May 14, 2011, 02:08 PM
... bans carrying firearms into churches ("...houses of worship...) "specifically. It is written into the concealed weapons permit statute.

From what I can gather reading the on-line statutory codes, collapsible batons and pepper spray is legal. (Using pepper spray inside is normally not a great idea.)

I recently had knee surgery and walk with a cane. Besides, it lends me a veneer of dignity. Crafter, thanks for the tip on the cane website.

thefamcnaj
May 14, 2011, 02:17 PM
I've been debating the same thing. I'm leaning towards carrying a swing out baton into place that do not allow fire arms. I thought about a k bar but i'm not skilled with a knife other than opening up packages.
However here in South Carolina they are considering changing the carry laws to where you can carry a gun into a place of worship, hospital, and day cares, and I believe onto school property but not inside the school, so the law abiding citizens are wating to see what comes of it.
They are also considering doing away with the cc classes, and making it to where "if you can leagally buy a gun, you can carry a gun". But thats a whole nother issue.

Giterboosted
May 14, 2011, 02:54 PM
As to the church carry thing it says on he back of my permit even that in Ga we can't arty in churches, which makes me a bit Leary in churn because of all The shootings on the news in the past few years that took place in churches

ms6852
May 14, 2011, 05:17 PM
There are some pretty great ideas, I had been thinking of something along like a cane, and there are some pretty fantastic canes on canemasters.com. I'll probably look into some instructional information. Though canemasters has some beautiful canes they are a little too pricey $$$ for me. I was thinking along some like what cold steel has to offer:

http://www.coldsteel.com/citystick.html

hso
May 14, 2011, 09:38 PM
Yes
I don't just depend upon a firearm as my only defensive tool and help others find good options for self defense to add to carrying a firearm.

BTW, there's lots of discussions on this in NonFirearms Weapons here and the occasional one in S&T.

Tasers, Sprays, Canes, Batons, Umbrellas, Flashlights, Pens, Knives, Water Bottles, etc.

There's no need to spend a lot of money on an expensive "combat cane" when a sturdy hickory livestock cane (http://www.lehmans.com/store/USA_Made___Tools_and_Farm___Farming___Hickory_Livestock_Hook_Canes___22211057?Args=/) can be had for under $20. Take a little fine grit sand paper and a little time in front of the idiot box and then apply 3 coats of BLO and you have a cane capable of doing every bit as much damage as the expensive marketed ones.

With the savings you can buy a training video from CaneMasters (or 3 (http://www.canemasters.com/cane-masters-video-special-p-408.html))or actually attend a seminar on how to put your new cane to defensive use and be infinitely better off than having to decide between tool or training. If you can afford both the tool and the training, go for it! If not, stock cane and training is a better choice.

As pointed out, illegal in most states, sword canes of any real value are expensive. Cheap ones are for the "ill-informed":rolleyes:.

USAF_Vet
May 14, 2011, 10:02 PM
In Michigan, carry in church is not allowed unless you have permission from the pastor, priest, imam, rabbi, head warlock, etc.

CZ223
May 15, 2011, 08:16 AM
on a regular basis. Before I ever stepped foot in the place my wife had told several people that I carry. I was not all that happy to find this out, but it seems that several of the other members, including the pastor, also carry. I carry every time I go there. I amcooking there at a barbeque for the members today adn was even considering carrying openly, though I probably won't.

Boanerges57
May 15, 2011, 09:39 AM
I carry the same things everyone else has and does not think of. Hands, Keys, Pen/Pencil.
Anything is a weapon if you know how to use it. the greatest weapon you have is your mind, get educated on how to use your body. A knife wont do most people much good since they lack the knowledge of how to use it effectively.
CS/mace/OC/pepperspray isnt effective in windy conditions and can be problematic indoors. if you pepperspray me you better have a good reason and a backup plan. It is not at all impossible to fight effectively after being sprayed. It is just miserably uncomfortable. The spray doesnt even bother some people much. Ive seen the range of responses form collapsing into a pile of tears all the way up to remarking that it tingles some (didnt even affect the guys eyes at all, he had a rash come up on his face).
Tazer or similar could be a good plan but you need to be able to move fast and close up.

Whatever your choice you should remain within the bounds of legality and familiarity. Find some real world training and educate yourself.

The walking stick is probably one of the best "weapons" i can think of. It is functional and will usually not draw attention.

Travis McGee
May 15, 2011, 09:52 AM
Cold Steel Vaquero Grande. Looks like a typical little folding knife clipped to your front pocket. It's not. Even with the big blade, it's legal in FL with a CCW. I carry it just about everywhere but airports, and I avoid them as much as possible.

InkEd
May 15, 2011, 10:28 AM
First of all, why hasn't this been put in the non-fiream weapon forum? Simply because it interiors this one BUT rather it would be a nice change from the talks about Case pocketknives, funny shaped machetes and giant slingshots. Sorry Jorg. (I do still find your videos to be funny.)

Some form of stick/cane seems to be the preferred item when a gun is not allowed. I saw a link posted for CaneMaster canes and other sturdy wooden sticks. It seems a good bot of practice and training are needed to use them effectively though. In my mind (and it is a bit twisted at times), I instantly thought "just use a baseball bat as your cane" instead of those other things? They are stronger, pretty lightweight (especially aluminum models), are easy to swing and deliver alot more force than a regular/specialty cane.

What are the legalities of carrying a baseball bat as a cane? Seriously.

fedlaw
May 15, 2011, 10:36 AM
Now that I've crossed into my "golden years", I thought I would start a little blog about self-defense for seniors. I definitely agree with Boanerges57, your mind is your greatest weapon. Learning new techniques and how to employ new tools (or new uses for old tools) can be fun, good exercise and a great way to stay limber as well as continuing to be able to protect yourself and your loved ones.

If you have a chance, drop in from time to time to see some of the things I've come across in the way of self-defense (both guns and non-firearms defense).

Steve

http://selfdefenseforseniors.blogspot.com/

Toaster
May 15, 2011, 01:54 PM
As a residents of Illinois we ( me and the Mrs.) have little choice but to carry alternatives. My wife is an RN in a metopolitan area, she never goes into work or runs errands without her can of pepper spray in her purse or coat pocket. I keep a tire iron ( jack handle for a bumper jack from the 70s) within easy reach in my truck.
Steel toed work boots can be a deterrant if you make it a point to stay limber and practice your kicks ( shins, knees, or groin). Failure to keep your legs in shape might result in torn ligaments or pulled muscles.

rich642z
May 15, 2011, 10:52 PM
I am an amputee for the past two years and I took a plane to New York to meet with my frirst cousin who is a Catholic Priest from Poland. Before I left,I called the TSA manager who runs the security down at the airport and told her that I had a prosthetic leg to walk with and a portable wheelchair in case my back starting hurting to bad. She met me at the United ticket counter and we proceded to the security screening part at the airport. She was watching as I told the TSA person there that I had a prosthetic leg with screws in it,they put me thru the scanner and found it and let me go on the plane. She [manager] called JFK airport and told TSA there that I was coming with a chair and cane. The TSA manager introduced himself to me and showed me the fax from where I departed from and wheeled me straight to the airline my cousin was coming in on.I had no trouble coming back to Omaha from New York. My cousin is here for about 6 months and then I will travel with him to Poland then to Belgium to vist other first cousins I havent seen for about 40 some years.

HGM22
May 16, 2011, 07:17 AM
One thing I've always wondered is if criminals would be MORE likely to assault someone with a cane, seeing them as weaker than normal. Though, I suppose NOT having a cane isn't going to save your butt either. Just a thought.

By the way, they do make steel toed shoes that look like normal tennis, work, and dress shoes. I'm not sure how well they'd work to kick someone (I'm sure they'll put a hurting on them, but I wonder if they might also put a hurting on your toes/foot).

razorback2003
May 16, 2011, 12:01 PM
Fox Labs pepper spray is good stuff. Knives, batons, blackjacks you have to get close to the criminal. Pepper spray can give you distance.

ms6852
May 16, 2011, 04:32 PM
Is it easy to pass security with a cane? I haven't flown in a couple of years and was thinking of boarding the plane with a cane.

Carl Levitian
May 16, 2011, 04:47 PM
"One thing I've always wondered is if criminals would be MORE likely to assault someone with a cane, seeing them as weaker than normal. Though, I suppose NOT having a cane isn't going to save your butt either. Just a thought."


It depends.

If you're carrying a typical old fogy cane, and walking with a limp, then maybe yes. But if you're carrying a rustic knarly Irish blackthorn stick, or rustic homemade walking stick from hornbeam or such, then no. The rustic stick in the hands of someone not limping or showing an infirmity, is sending a message that the street punks understand.

I've been a Maryland resident for most of my life, and Washington D.C. is my hometown, so I've never carried a gun. Yet I've walked the D.C streets armed with a very knobby blackthorn with a good root knob handle. There's a street code of sorts, and a rough looking stick in the hands of a man who looks fit is sending a clear message. Don't screw with me, I'll bash ya. The street punks that pull the run of the mill muggings don't want a fight, they just want money from a wimpy looking victim. Guns for the most part are not used for street crime, but a cheap paring knife is the most used tool. Can be ditched after they run off down the street with your wallet. Guns are saved for turf disputes between gangs, armed holdups of stores, and hits on rival gangs. They eyeball a would be victim very carefully, and if he looks like he could be difficult, they pass on by. If he's striding down the street looking fit, and he's carrying a stick that looks like anything but the old fogy cane, you're getting a free pass. They ain't gonna mess with ya.

A stout walking stick can go on any airline, into any government building, museum, and gets no attention.

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